>> rose: welcome to the program. ... we begin this evening with sebastian thrun, cofounder and c.e.o. of udacity, an online education company. what's your goal for udacity? >> i want to change the world. i want every person to have access to high-quality education and i want to be radical about it. i want to use the fact that wearing moving to mobile devices, tablets and foaps as my platform, and reach everybody. >> rose: we continue with director paul haggis and actress moran atias. the new movie is called "third person." >> this movie prendz to be three love stories. it's really-- i want to explore the creative process itself. and how selfish we are as writers, as creators, and who pays the price for that. it's not us. it's our children. >> rose: and we conclude this evening talking about young basketball talent with tom konchalski, and howard.

>> they came for three reasons, number one, the exposure that college coaches would come and watch them play. number two, the competition against the best players in the country. and hopefully they came, and hopefully this was the paramount reason for instruction. >> rose: online education, a new movie called "third person," and spotting young basketball talents when we continue. >> there's a saying around here: you stand behind what you say. around here, we don't make excuses, we make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places

where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it, when you know where to look. additional funding provided by: and by bloomberg. a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: thur is here. he is the cofounder and c.e.o. of udacity, an online education company. previously he was head of google x, the research lab for google. he spurned the development of the google driverless car and google class. udacity announced the first nanodegree program in conjunction with at&t. it follows an earlier collaboration with the two companies with georgia tech

university. i am pleased to have sebastian back at this table. welcome. >> it's great seeing you charlie. >> rose: tell me the journey you have taken in terms of how your evolution in thinking has taken place about online education. >> well, last year i was full time at google, running google x., and then i made the mistake of putting my stamford class online. we sent one little e-mail that said you can take this class online for free and get the same exam as the stamford students and we expected 500 students would show pup upon 500, 800. it was a very specialized course on artificial intelligence. it was friday's after. saturday morning we had 5,000 students, monday morning 14,000, showing the first signs of slowing. the dean found out about this and gave me a phone call. >> rose: what did he say? >> he said, "sebastian, you didn't tell us." we had a long seqeps of conversations if it was okay to

put a course online and what credentials to give. we had 160,000 students. i have taught a lot students but i would have to live 100 lifetimes to teach 60,000 students. >> rose: at that point, your perspective was there are a lot of people out there who want to take online courses. >> i shouldn't miss this, but i was going to a rihanna concert a week later and i looked at a big stadium and there were 40,000 people and i thought that's only 40,000 people. >> rose: a third of the people taking your course online. >> it was crazy. >> rose: have you changed your opinion about what can be done and what is necessary to do online? in other words, is that course different from what you do online today? >> massively so. >> rose: that's what i'm trying to get at. >> initially, we did this first massive online course-- and we weren't the only ones-- and it was a copy of what you do in the

classroom pup record yourself, record your lecture, you have a fixed timetraim and deadlines. and i realized-- when we go to a new medium it's as different as television is from radio or film is from the theater stage. and you can do magic that you could never do in a classroom. for example, you can go at your own pace. in a classroom, when you ask a question and you have 200 kids sitting there and someone blurts out the answer it takes away from everybody else and you as a teacher are forced to go at this specific pace you have to do and take these 200 brains with you at this pace. online, you can wait. you ask a question, and if a student takes 30 trials, it's personal fine. it makes it much more interactive, much less like a lecture, and much more like a video game. and it is so different from what you can do in a classroom it completely puts teaching on its head. >> rose: are there things that you realize that online needed that you didn't necessarily know

was necessary? in other words, is there something about the teaching experience that in the beginning when you put it online, it suffered from the absence of being in person? >> yeah. so there are things that are very different. there are certainly low points in our work. one was when the first class with 160,000 students started, we only had 23,000 at the end. and the finishing rates went to something like 5%. and i asked people, like, why aren't you finishing? and some people would say i just wanted to check in, see what's happening, i don't really care. but a huge number of people who seriously cared didn't finish. we had deadlines that wouldn't be consistent with people's lifestyles. and we found a pure kind of streaming computer lecture isn't quite that great for teaching people something new. so we put people around it. we started playing with having mentors involved and tutor and giving you feedback. and that -- >> so you could seek out a tutor to help you on the online course? >> yes, it's quite amazing

actually. you can do almost everything in the classroom online the same way facebook has deep social interactions online. >> rose: what else have you learned? >> so much. the number one thing i have learned is we are setting up society, when it comes to education, the same way in the 18th century. once upon a time people had one job during their lifetime and one slice of education was perfectly sufficient for this. because you have unemployment and not that much would change. today, i've met people who have seven different years. and they still have one phase of learning because we haven't changed an inch in the education system. so for the next six years, they don't know what to do. the vast majority of our student are people in midcareer. they have jobs. they want to be able to stay on top -- >> they need new skills to add to. >> in my own field, computer science, every five years, everything becomes obsolete-- seven years. >> rose: so how do you keep up in your own field? >> it's very hard for me.

i'm very deficient. if i was to interview at google as an engineer i would fail. >> rose: you wouldn't get a job. >> no chance. what i learned is so outdateed. >> rose: i'm amazed at how you were there at google x., and then you became gan to experiment with the car, and all that, driverless cars and all of that, and you had larry's attention, because he's fasinated by that and learned from you. you were in charge of artificial intelligence, and you had robotics and all of these things that are really interesting. and yet you went to education. why? >> well, if you ask yourself the question what's got the biggest impact on society at this point? what is most urgent to be fixed? education has a dimension that's just mind blowing amazing. if you look at what it means to democratize education and bring it everywhere in the world, there are many, many place where's people aren't privileged to go to harvard and m.i.t.-- most of china, most of africa,

there are-- think about what you could do if every person could have a good education and people's limit is not where they grow up and what access they have to knowledge but their own ability. i think we would do such a great thing with society. that's basically why i'm doing it. >> rose: to marry education to ability and yearning to know more. >> yeah. i mean, i've been learning all my life. i'm kind of a crazy learner. i'm spending my free time learning things. and i think that should be true for most people. people are curious animals. they really care about new things. where i grew up in germany, they had a fairly good education system and-- go to subsahara africa and see what chances people have. it drives me crazy that people have no chance there. >> rose: it does. and the fact that this tool is a liberating agent. >> yeah.

even our home country, i got so many e-mails from people saying-- mothers who are raising children and say i want to go back into the workforce. i don't know how to do this. people from afghanistan e-mail me. they're going through all kind of trouble -- >> and udacity is the meansue would answer all of them how you get back in the workforce, how you maintain your place in the workfors is udacity. >> wouldn't recommend udacity for everybody. we're specialized in the tech field and we're experimenting. but we're at the point where people can learn at home. we want learning to be as smooth a fabric as-- as a toothbrush, something you do twice a day for five minute. now we can do it. it's not institutionalized. we have nano degrees -- >> what do you mean by that? >> that's kind of a crazy thing we just did with at&t. it's really thinking about what kind of certificates do people need? what kinds of credentials do

people need today. and we find we have existing great credentials for young people like bachelor's degrees and master's degrees, but they take a long time to do. what we aspire to do is make it short, minimally short so you can get in, learn as efficiently as possible, get the skills you need for the next career, and get out. ent people to spend a minimum of time with us. and the magic number is more like half a year. half a year can take a skilled mathematician to -- >> you can take a skilled mathematician and do what? >> turn him into a programmer. and make him employable in silicon valley. there's a huge number of open jobs in mobile right now. i envision this thing, this nanodegree is something you do many times in your life. you collect them and stack them. and learning has become shorter and longer, longer because the unit is short ear. >> rose: what's the

partnership with at&t? >> at&t is a very forward-looking companied that really cares about education. they were the signature sponsor in the work with georgia tech when we made masters degrees affordable, from $45 now to $6,000 and they're sponsoring and building with us this new degree. in fact, they are reserving jobs, internships for the top 100 graduates. so if someone takes this and does well, they will come to at&t and work there. >> rose: so what happens to your huge interest and experience and knowledge with artificial intelligence and rothe bottics? >> i'm still extremely interested in it. chris was here, a wonderful great leader now running the team. and i'm standing by the sidelines because i'm busy trying fix education. that's actually a pretty big job. >> rose: if you are standing on the sidelines, will lose some sense of-- you have to make a choice. you have to commit yourself to

education or carry forward your curiosity? >> every morning i make a choice what shoes to wear. we all make choices. and this education choice is one i fell into. it wasn't planned, and by e-mail people telling me how important it was that my higher calling had come. i'm extremely proud to be doing this. >> rose: are you surprised it has not gone further than you might have imagined when you first put your toe into the water. >> it was a thorny path. we had some setbacks, obviously, moments of redwret, moment where's we chased up a hill and realized it's the wrong thill thoil climb up. we worked inside a university system that didn't like us. we learned a lot of technical things. we learned that learn today is much more demanding at home than in a classroom because distraction is much more stronger. but at the same time, we are extremely intrigued having more than two million students, by having enormous corporate

support from various companies. we have an alliance of about 15 companies that very actively support us. and i feel society is ripe for this. >> rose: so your audience is people who you-- you define your audnce. >> young professionals, 24-35 years old. when we did the master's degree at georgia tech we found most people are in jobs. they're a little older than college age. most people college age go to college but past college age you have no learning opportunity and they come from all different countries. india is our second biggest country. >> rose: what is your goal to udacity? >> i want to change the world. i want everybody to have access to high-quality education. moving to mobile devices, tablets and phones as my platform. ul, we're going to be failing because only a third of the people have broadband access. but if i even get a third of the people with broadband access and wait for the at&ts of the

world to do the job-- our customers are young professionals. it's hard to sway a young person to give away the degree and take a udacity nano degree and the the reason is there is not enough trust yet. it will take some time. eventually i hope every person on the planet will benefit. >> rose: and they will be as proud a udacity degree as a korea from-- take your pick. what about in countries like china and-- what's happening there parallel development to what you're doing? >> so, in places like india and china, unfortunately, a lot of efforts are to replicate the kind of western education system. so a lot of new schools are being built. a lot of new universities. >> rose: at the higher education level primarily? >> yes, yes. and the sad part is i think there's an opportunity to kind of leapfrog and go straight to a mobile. >> rose: how are you influenced by the fact that you came from a german educational

system rather than an american educational system? >> that's a great question. i always admired the top american universities, and i've been extremely fortunate to have been able to have a role to play at stanford and other places. but i also felt that the exclusivity of the system here is problematic. i mean, i look at where the american kids really get educated. it's not m.i.t.s and stanfords. that's a small sliver of people. a huge number of kids go to places that are not of the same quality and often i would say of lower quality than what i experienced in germany. and can then they emerge with this amazing college debt that drives me really crazy. in germany at least, it was free education. it was taxpayer played. it wasn't particularly great. it was good. but here i would have starting with $100 or more of student debt. and i would have been devastated. >> rose: it's great to have you here. >> it's a pleasure. >> rose: thank you. >> thank you. >> rose: paul haggis is an

oscar-winning screen writer and director, the first to write back-to-back oscar winners. his new film features a high-profile cast and three love stories set in paris, rome, and new york. it is called "third person." here is the trailer. >> you could be writing about me. are you. i'm writing about one i know. >> and you know me. >> it's supposed to be about a man who can only feel through the characters he create, but he keeps trying to be something else. >> is she there? >> no. >> hi, daddy. i miss you. >> my daughter. you have kids? >> a girl. i don't see her two years. >> i'm sorry for staring. >> we just need to convince the judge that you're stable enough to get visitation again. >> what do you want, julia? >> i need to be able to touch him. he is my son.

>> yuck. >> don't say that. this is daddy's work. >> watch me. >> i need you to look at what did you. i need you to face what you can't face, and i need you to tell me the truth. >> will you help me? no questions? >> tell me. tell me that you did it. >> do you know how long she talked about showing you how she could swim? she was always trying to get your attention. >> all huto do was watch her and you couldn't even do that. >> i don't know how to forgive myself. >> please. >> begging? >> come with me. >> where? >> anywhere. >> i'm never going to let you see him again. >> no! >> you really don't feel a thing, do you?

you love, love. it's people you don't have time for. >> rose: joining me is one of the film's stars and coproducer, marion cotillard. also paul haggis. i am pleased to have them here at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: tell me about the idea of a third person and what it means to you and how it informed this script. >> we had conversations about this. and we started-- i mean, to me, and to us, it was the idea that there's a third person in every relationship. you just often don't know who that person is. you think it's your mother-in-law. it's actually someone from your past, someone informing that relationship, and sometimes ruining it. but also, i love the idea that liam neeson's character, michael, who is a novelist, who is so detached from his own feelings, that he actually journals in the third person. and the question is the interplay between h and his young lover, olivia wilde, who is a young authoress-- i guess they don't say authoress anymore-- she is a young author.

and they flirt in the third person and sometimes they're quite cruel to each other that way. >> rose: how did the working relationship here develop? >> this started when we were shooting-- moran had a small role in my last film. it was the last week of shooting and she asked if she could stay on the set. and she had a coup of days off, and i said sure. and during that time -- >> you're no fool. >> exactly. she said i want to learn directing. and the cameraman was like, this is a lens. come see my lens. and she started to pitch me idea chiz just found endlessly annoying. and then she said you should do a multiple-character, multiple storyline piece about love and relationships. and i thought that's interesting. and then we started talking. and i interviewed her for about 50 hours. we sat down in new york and i interviewed her, and scooted her out and started thinking of myself and it developed from there. >> rose: so we have three auto biographical stories about you. >> 13. it's truly absolutely personal

but it's also what you see in other people's relationships, and sometimes you judge them. and i think when you grow, you start evaluating those judgmental opinions in a different way. if i didn't like that, what does that about me? and how am i in that, in that dynamic? and there are so many profound questions these characters have to ask about themselves to really be able to surrender to something so terrifying, like love. and i think that's the -- >> you have to surrender to love. >> surrender to love. isn't that hard? and beautiful. >> rose: and then you these ideas that are there and you began to massage these idea. >> and i wrote for two and a half years. >> rose: two and a half years. >> it was ridiculous. any good writer should be done in six months. >> rose: evidently the academy thinks you're a pretty good writer. >> i used to be a good writer. i used it all up then. i just decided to let the

characters take me where they want to go that's a huge mistakeaise writer. >> rose: why is that a mistake? >> you should control your characters. you should put them in a plot. and i didn't. i let them go. sometimes they'd take me to a dead end. sometimes over a cliff. and often to places that made me feel really uncomfortable. when i was getting to there i realized i had something. >> rose: was she infusing this writing? >> i was lucky enough to have notes from moran. she was in los angeles and i was here, giving me notes on the drafts. my partner and my ex-wife, i was trusting all of them to read them, and those are people i trust. >> rose: let's take a look. set this up for me. this is where anne aplayed by olivia wilde, tells michael, played by meam, that she took his hotel robe. >> they just had a huge fight, and he's trying to explings she said you use that word so often thas no meaning. >> sorry, the word "sorry.

of. >> he starts calling her and she's just not picking up. and then he stops calling, and he goes oh, and she thinks of a little game she can play. >> rose: roll tape. here it is. >> hi. >> hi. >> i'm afraid i took your robe earlier? >> you did. >> i'm afraid. >> so you've come to return it. >> well, yeah, felt bad. i thought you might need it in the morning. >> there are two. >> there are? >> oh, yeah. >> oh. now i feel foolish. >> but it might be damp. i showered earlier. >> so you do need this one? >> couldn't hurt. >> rose: tell us about you. i mean, you're from israel. >> yes. >> rose: you didn't set out to be an actress. >> no. i wanted to be a therapist.

since i was a very young girl. i wanted to-- i was always fascinated by humans' behavior and why we do what we do and what leads to that. and i think i found a much more fulfilling medium with acting, with storytelling. i'm not curing anybody. but i just feel like i'm living life in such a-- in such a-- with such sivault. >> rose: tell me about the other characters. >> we have liam and olivia, and then mila kunis, and james franco. this story, it's sort of the beginning, middle, and end of a relationship, and mila and james are in a terrible custody battle. she's been accused of doing something that no mother would ever do. and we're not sure if she did it or not. and she hasn't seen her child for a year, and she's fighting to get her child back. and then we have-- we have

adrien and moran. adrien brode plays a character, an american businessman in rome. who hates everything italian. he hates being there. he just can't wait-- he's there to steal some designs and then sell them on the black market and to sweat shops. he's there and just wants to get out of town. he can't get his flight. and he is wandering around and sees the bar americano. he thinks maybe he can get a decent hamburger and bud wiser and instead meets moran and literally takes him on a ride to some very dark places. >> rose: what kind of ride? >> i think it was a fun ride. >> rose: did you sit back and say i have these really wonderful people i want to work with? i have a very interesting story right here. i have an idea for three characters, three times, and third person. where would i want this to happen? i'd like to be in paris. i'd like to be in rome. i'd like to be in new york. >> i shot my last movies in pittsburgh, and albuquerque. and i thought exreerior rome

looks really good on a page. >> rose: so you set out to have fun. >> i did. but also this movie prendz to be three love stories. it's really-- i wanted to explore the creative process itself, and how selfish we are as writers, as creators expwsh who pays the price for that. it's not us. it's our children. >> rose: i was going to ask you could the third person be work, and could the third person be all kinds of mistresses of our time? >> yes. and how we fill our lives trying to not think about the things that are truly haunting us, things we can't forgive ourselves for, the forgiveness and the possibilities, there are themes in this. >> rose: is there something to be said about the fact you've worked with him, what, three times now, and there's a chemistry that exists between an actor, a performer, and a director? >> firstly, i'm very lucky because you need to meet that person and find that common curiosity, i believe. we're both desperately curious about people's behavior.

>> rose: what makes them tick. >> we didn't get to work together really, truly on the crash series. that's where we met but we weren't that involved and i saw her work and was really impressed. >> rose: the idea-- did he-- what does he have that speaks to you as a director? how is it the best way to handle-- to give direction to you? i mean, is it simply to know that he trusts you? well, for me, he-- what paul has, which is incredibly special, is that he really values everybody's opinion. so even if i had the little child from haifa saying, "shut up. you can't propose an idea to an oscar-winning filmmaker, "he gives you a certain confidence that that little girl is feeling confident and she will actually pitch an idea to somebody. >> rose: tell me where you are in this relationship with scientology and what's happened there? when you publicly broke with them. >> we're best friends now. >> rose: no, you're not.

you said the strangest thing though. you said if you read with some scandal involving me, you'll know somebody had a hand in it. >> and you didn't see a picture of me out there. they have long memories. they are-- i have seen what they've done to other people. ask jason beget how he was almost destroyed by them. i think wh you give a modicum of celebrity, they tend to back off. i have no huge quarrel with them. >> rose: you had a reason to break. >> i had a quarrel with them, and i said what i needed to say. i wasn't going to -- >> did you do this without fear? >> well, i i don't think you do anything like that without fear. but you do it because you do it you are who you are. >> rose: true to yourself. >> and there were a lot of people that walked away very quietly. that's just not me. >> rose: had you thought about it for a while before you made the break? >> yes, i thought about it for about-- i thought it for a long

time, things bothered me, troubled me inside, but i-- you know, i tried to deal with them within sort of the church, within the system. and when i became frustrated at that point, i decided to start looking, and when i started looking, i saw things that i should have seen years and years ago. i was purposefully blind. >> rose: why don't people see that, regardless of whether it's scientology or something ?els all their friends know. >> no, you don't because there's so much you don't know. because they keep it from you. and you keep it from yourself. it is a very long, long process. and there's a pride in it. this is my group. i always believed this group to be an underdog. i protect underdogs. i remember the "new york times" at one point when i was having real problem came to me, they were doing an article, and said, "we hear you're a sign tols?" "what of it? come after me. it's my group." i never read "rolling stone." i never read "time" magazine.

you don't do that. you stop yourself from doing that. and when you do, you feel so stupid i've been to something that is supposedly there to seek knowledge and awareness to to then shut yourself off. >> rose: and are you different today? >> oh, yeah. i'm much happier. i'm much more myself. >> rose: so that's it in a sense. it was liberating for you. >> yes. >> rose: so you were true to thine own self. >> you have to be. >> rose: have you talked about this? the two of you? not much? that came out and we were shooting the movie. and i was like, first, let me shoot my sequence, and then deal with that. this is not a good time. >> rose: i can't imagine you were selfish. >> i was protecting my character. which meant a lot to me. it was-- i was not the only one -- >> did you say to him, can you back off that and let me do my thing here? >> not me alone. we have a wonderful-- >> once you get me on film you can do what the hell you want

to-- >> no, sort of. i also wanted the other actors to do their work. our wonderful producer who is here had the same concern, why now? but that's paul. >> rose: you were thinking about michael first, weren't you? >> yes. >> you know me so well. >> rose: i want to talk a little bit about also the other kinds of things that you're doing, like haiti, which i find a great sense of-- when guthere-- there are certain places you go that they just connect to you. >> i went there eye read an article about this man who was working in haiti, an american doctor and priest-- this was nine years ago-- when i was in italy, actually, promoting a movie. i had it translated into english. and i frankly just didn't believe it. he was too heroic. i didn't believe it. i just said i'm going to go see for myself. i flew to haiti, and found him. and stayed with him while he worked in the slums for a week.

>> rose: what was his name? >> father rick frechet. and i had never experienced a real hero in my life until i met him and i had to do something to help him. >> rose: what is your definitionave real hero? >> he's a very smart man. and he know-- he sees what he's up against, and yet he doesn't quit. so we started the very first free high school there. we founded the very first free high school for the kid. >> rose: are you concerned about fact that the international focus has left haiti? >> , of course,, of course. it was much easier to raise money right after it. the first thing we did, we pulled all my friends into my backyard when i came back from haiti and said if we're going to help-- we're going to help for the long term. so i made everyone who gave me money commit for the long term. they gave mea many of my movie star friends stepped up and gave me $50,000 a year for five years. and now they're recommitting. and it's like-- so there's a

great weight on me to make sure every dollar is spent well. >> rose: are you involved in this, in any way? >> yes. >> yeah, i was. five days after the earthquake, i joined paul and a number of incredible people, and that experience profoundly changed me. >> rose: how so? >> well, you-- as you say, some things connect to you and not in a very organic way or natural way. these are not my people. but they've asked nothing in return. you help them. and some people you weren't able to help because of the circumstances. there weren't enough seats on the helicopter to evacuate them. all they did was thank you for coming to visit their country. and that really connected me to that level of kindness when other people could be just really rageful about what's happened to them. so i think that was-- >> this was just after we started talking about this project. this was right at the end -- >> right after you started talking about the film this took

place. >> yes. >> rose: which was how many years ago? >> it's five years now. >> rose: can we show a clip of you? >> if you insist. >> rose: i do, i do. this is you with scott, played by adrien brode. >> excuse me. >> you want something? >> yeah, i do, actually. one of those. you mind telling me what that is. >> this? >> yeah. if it's cold. >> oh, that's good.

i'm sorry for staring. staring. looking at you. my eyes. >> you think i'm too stupid to speak english? >> just apologizing for looking. >> it's okay. you're just looking at my lemonciello. >> it's very hard not to. >> rose: you made these larger roles in paul, in terms of what you want to do, and you went from israel to italy as a model, and somebody said you should be in the movies. >> before i was hosting television shows. >> rose: exactly, i forgot about that. >> and hosting radio shows and doing all sort of things before i found this medium. but i-- i mean, for me, it's

such a privilege to portray a character like noneica. i mean, this is an albanian gypsy woman that lives in italy, and needs to survive, no matter what it takes, and she's not apologetic about how she does it. and she's not going to play the victim or the piece of dirt that society has defined her. and then she meets a man who treat her differently, and perhaps goes through this incredible feeling of perhaps she is worthy of being loved. so i've-- from just all that, i have so many tools as an actor to develop a character, technically with an accent and study their culture of the gypsy culture, and living that kind of life, of a gypsy life, and in the streets of rome. governobefore they allowed me to portray this character, i

secretly started to research everything, every book, every article i could read about the culture. and then i just felt this was only staying in my head. i had to feel this woman in my bones, in my toes. and i went to italy. and i got myself a really wonderful raw apartment with no furniture, with no gas, and went on the streets to start from what they can begin in the spectrum hierarchy of the gypsy clan. and the first thing is begging. begging for money. and it was the most difficult and challenging little task that i was judging when i saw people here begging for money in new york city or in l.a. i was looking at them. i was like, wow, so easy. why don't you find a job for yourself. and here i am just wearing a different skirt, and with not cleaned hair, and not showered hair, and it was impossible to

make even a euro a day, just because i looked a little different. and that gave me such a strength to portray this character. i just wanted to bring as much authenticity as i could, because they weren't convinced that i could do it. >> rose: really? >> no, there was a time when penelope cruz was going to play this role. penelope wasn't available. and moran auditioned for it and was just awful. >> rose: awful. >> i was. >> rose: you gave her another chance? >> i've often cast people who were terrible in auditions. deborah ferren tino came in and read each time and each time was worse, and then i said you have the job, and she was brilliant. the audition process itself is so inherently false. we know they're good actors. i'd seen her work on "crash" and i worked with her before and i

knew deborah's work was good. you know they can do it. but their nerves were taking over. you trust them. >> rose: did you think you had a bad audition when you auditioned? >> the worst audition. what i tried to explain to paul is such a layered character requires time and preparation. i can't have that accept, that voice, if i don't work on it, from morning until night. eveninar speech, we had a wonderful dialogue coach, diane jones, i would wake up in the morning, 4:00 a.m. to 6:30, religiously listen to this voice, before i go to bed, and one hour a day to work on the speech, to find the oridge nalt, and her voice, too. it was such a specific voice that we found, and the rhythm of speech of this woman was so innocent and child-like, and not educated, which i thought we'lll just give her another layer. i can't find the sweat this

woman has which is a different sweat a workout and the homeless person living on the street. it looks different. >> rose: she found it. and her performance surprised you. >> that's the thing. they didn't audition, olivia wilde, liam neeson. mila kunis i thought absolutely could not do this part. completely surprised me. way too beautiful, way too young. i can't believe you're going to be playing what is reduced to a maid. and that's what i love to do. i love to let actors surprise us and give us the chance to do that. and they all knocked it out of the park. >> rose: do you only want to direct what you write? >> not necessarily. i've tried twice to direct other people's work. it hasn't worked out. i would love to take that off my back and work with a writer and say would you fix this scene? it's not working. >> rose: thank you, pleasure to meet you. >> thank you. >> rose: thank you, paul. >> rose: back in a moment.

stay with us. >> i don't think there were 10 people outside of the state of north carolina who had ever heard of michael jordan. >> oifer 200 players go through this camp who have played in the n.b.a. the perfect example is michael jordan, the greatest basketball player ever to play. before he came to this camp, only two schools were recruiting him. one day in this camp, michael jordan exploded on to the scene, and then from there, it's nothing but history. >> rose: tom konchalski, and howard garfinkel are here. they are pioneers in the high-stakes world of high school basketball. garfinkel created the first reliable scouting report 50 years ago. it was named "high school basketball illustrated." in 1984, he sold the publication to konchalski, his friend and colleague. garfinkel started fight five-star basketball camp. it was a preeminent destination

for-- >> spierg college players and coachs. michael jordan, lebron james, isaiah thomas, and kevin durant are among hundreds of n.b.a. players who passed through five-star. i am pleased to have tom konchalski, and howard garfinkel at this table for the first time. welcome. >> it's an honor to be here, believe me. >> rose: so why do they come to the camp, these young high school wanna-bees? >> why did they? well, they came for three reasons. number one, the exposure that college coaches would come and watch them play. number two, the competition against the best players in the country. and hopefully they came and hopefully this was the paramount reason, for instruction, to become better players because the level of instruction was unparalleled corporate in the country. >> rose: michael jordan said, "the camp changed how i felt aboubasketball and the future. it was the turning point in my life. i saw all the all-americans and i thought i was the lowest thing on the totem pole but the more i

played, the more i thought, maybe i can play with these guys." that does it, too. you can get a chance to size up yourself versus the competition. >> he was tremendous at the ca camp. trichia question. let's see if tom remembers. tom-- you're talking to the greatest mind in the history of basketball. this guy here. >> don't believe it. don't believe it. >> trust me, it's true. trivia question-- michael jordan came to the camp. second week he got injured near the end of the week. but the first week, he was terrific. he only tied for the m.v.p.. >> rose: so you have the camp and they come and get a chance to measure themselves against their-- other players, young players, and also a chance for colege coaches to look at them, and they get a chance to learn something, too, most importantly. >> right. the teaching was at another level. the teaching was awesome. and it started when bob knight

came as the second year of the camp, coach knight from west point came as our head coach. and he said now, we're putting in stations this week. teaching stations, we're putting in stations. there are going to be eight stations, eight different skills. and we did it. because we hadn't done that before. >> rose: so that's shooting, passing dribbling-- >> passing, one-on-one moves, moving without the ball, defense, and the teaching set the camp apart from everyone else. and bob knight is totally responsible for that. >> rose: he's a good teacher? >> oh, he's an unbelievable teacher, but a great leader, great leader. >> rose: all the famous coaches we know are pretty good teachers, wouldn't you say, tom? >> yes. you're not a successful coach unless you can teach. >> rose: is that right? you can't just be a good recruiter and have assistants teach? >> no, that's only going to take you so far.

you've got to have-- you've got to be a teacher. and the great coaches are the great teachers. look at the woodens and the dean smiths and the knights and the petinos. they're all great teachers. >> rose: this is what the "new york times" said-- i'm trying to get a fix on him for a moment-- "from the moment he shakes your hand and looks you square in the eye part military but dad, part concerned priest-- tom konchalski is is assessing, are you division one material or simply junior college? college?" when you make that assessment, how do you make that judgment? >> well, you don't. you just observe and try to take as much in. not only when they're on the court, but when you meet them. when you meet them, you want to see what kind of character, what kind of personality they have. and it's hard to be a great player if you don't have personality. >> rose: really? >> absolute. >> rose: what kind of

personality? >> you have to have-- if you're-- if you give a dead fish handshake, if you give-- if you don't make eye contact. if you're so severely introverted that you keep your head down -- >> you will not be a great scorer. >> that's going to keep frureach yurg potential, not just as a player -- >> you have to believe in yourself, you have to have pride, you have to want to win. >> exactly. >> uby brown along with knight, and marv kessler, who passed about a year ago, great high school coach, were the best teachers and clinicians. uby brown's lectures at the camps was like watching fred astaire move. his moves, his speech. he's the greatest hoop lecturer, alive, dead, or yet unborn. and he just -- >> i'm smiling only because alive, dead, yet unborn. >> he was the best ever, and he

retired from speaking, lecturing two years ago. >> rose: what made him that? what would he do? >> his knowledge, his moves, his-- his demand. his command. >> his passion. >> his passion. he was just awesome. and he did-- he would do two lectures every week in the camp and the place went nut. nuts. he said-- when you introduced tom you mentioned priest. >> rose: yes. >> when i took tom in to the-- for the service, you can'tue can't curse or say any bad language near tom because he goes off. so there was a player-- there was a player from north carolina -- >> yes. >> a 6'8", terrific, terrific prospect, named barry beckad damand we had to change his

name. we could not put barry beckadam in the report. we changed it to barry beckadarn. beckadarn. >> rose: can you take a kid who has athletic ability but is not a great shooter? never has been a great shooter, and make him a great shooter? >> you can make him an improved shooter. >> rose: i know you can do that. you can make him a great shooter? >> probably not. >> rose: what do great shooters have that is not taught. >> they have touch. they have confidence-- and you can buoy his confidence. you can work on his stroke. he may not have quite the sensitivity in his fingertips that the great shoot version like a chris mullen or j.j. reddick or some of the great shooters. but you can make an improved shooters. he may-- it may not become his strength, but it can-- he can

grow from a weakness to a passable shooter at least. >> and the work, the work and the time that these shooters put in is mind-boggling. >> rose: of all the pros now playing, what is it kevin has, kevin durant, the most valuable player in the n.b.a.? >> what he has, first of all, he's 6'9". he has a great touch. he's a 45% three-point shooter. and he has skill. he has the skills with a ball, that you would expect a 6'5", 6'6" player to have and he's 6'9". he has athletic ability. he has that. and the biggest thing he has-- he has character. >> rose: you saw it when he won the m.v.p., and thanked his mother and cried. >> exactly. >> rose: that's character. >> you'd wake me nupt middle of the night in summertime make me run up a hill, making me do push-ups, screaming at me from

the sideline of my games at eight or nine years old. we weren't supposed to be here. you made us believe. you kept us off the street. you put clothes on backs, food on the table. >> he's someone-- also here, has a great appetite for the game. during the summer he'll come up and play in the entertainer's classic. he'll play at nike pro city and do this in different cities all around the country. he just loves to play. and his agent's, i'm sure, is saying, you get hurt. especially you playa i dikeman, you play at entertainers-- entertainers now is at rutger park, has a wooden floor. dikeman doesn't. you're playing on pavement. but pro city is indoors on a wooden floor. but his agent, i guarantee you, is extorting him not to play during the summer, don't risk injury, but he loves to play.

and that's what makes him special. he has a great love for the name. god made him 6'9" and gave him the skill. >> it's thoond eye-- >> all of that. >> he's the homohammed ali of basketball. he floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee. >> rose: what makes a great coach? >> well, a lot of things. first of all, the ability to teach. the ability to lead. >> rose: and character. >> yeah, but the ability to lead, and that's where mike krzyzewski is peerless. >> rose: what is his ability to lead? where was it manifest? >> it was honed during his years at west point and sebbing in the military. that's how he learned tob eye leader. but he instills a confidence in his players and a determination-- he's very good at communicating his-- his

competitiveness and his single mindedness of focus to his players. >> rose: he talks to his players one on one about their life. their life story. it's more than basketball when you hear him talk to these players? >> i agree, but there are a lot of other coaches who do that, too. >> the name of the game was, sand always will be recruiting. >> rose: the quality of the plaishz you put on the floor. >> you have to have the players. >> rose: and how important is the mother in that process? ( laughter ) , i don't know, i only talk to the fathers. >> rose: but i think the mothers -- tom? >> there are, but now there are so many other voices in kids' heads. frank maguire, his success at north carolina, south carolina, he would charm the mothers and fathers and whatever. >> and the coach. the high school coach. >> rose: now the mother is the one who has the influence, i believe. >> today it's the a.a.u. coach.

>> there are so many voices in kids' heads. >> rose: is that bad? >> yes, it is because i think t confuses kids. and morgan wooten has a tremendous it'smost famous high school coach and most successful high school coach in history. >> rose: down in washington somewhere. >> his mantra is one god, one wife, one coach. now kids-- they jump around from one school to another so they've played for multiple coaches. but even during the off season, the-- they play for multiple teams with different coaches and there are too many people in their ear. the kids whohave had the most success are the kids who just had a good support system, and where there's one strong voice in their head and that they've listened to that voice. if they start listening-- we all have a tendency to hear what we want to hear. and if 10 people are telling

someone-- for instance, with kids-- like a jad barra park is going to be a high pick. but some of the other guys who come out too early. if 10 people tell them go back because yeel be at best a late first round pick. you only need one voice saying you're a loatry pick. everyone travels the route of least resistance, and we hear selectively what we want to hear. and people who tell us what we want to hear we tend to listen to. >> rose: it's not good. >> no, it's not good. >> rose: would you rather-- in all things you have done, to have been one hell of a on college coach? >> no, i don't have the term ermt. >> rose: really? >> no. >> rose: you seem to have the most calming temperament of anybody i can imagine. >> that's the problem. >> rose: oh, that's the problem. >> i don't think i'm fiery

enough. and i don't like eye wouldn't like to have to get on the players. when i used to coach summer league teams and coach at summer camps and coach c.y.o. teams. i don't like to have to get on. i like to be friends with people. >> rose: mike krzyzewski said about howard-- i've known him almost four decades and he's as good a basketball personaise met. his knowledge of the game and the coaches in it is remarkable. bob knight, garf has done more for coaches and kids than anyone i know. his opinion on who can coach and play or who can't is impeccable. i endorse his services highly. all these guys love i. >> i'd like to go further. >> rose: it's great to have you here. >> it's an honor to know you and be here. >> pleasure meeting you. >> rose: i love the qualities you set.

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explore new worlds and new ideas through programs like this, made available for everyone through contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. there are no wrong roads to anywhere. there's no accidents. as we go along there are course corrections that we can make. every experience that we have in our life is there to teach us something. announcer: join spiritual teacher and author dr. wayne dyer for an intimate conversation as he returns to pbs to offer stories of his own life journey and share his deeply held beliefs. dyer: i want to step back from my life because i know that there have been forces or powers or some kind of energy that has been impacting me throughout my entire life. announcer: learn the five key principles that have guided dr. dyer