>> rose: well come to the program. we begin this evening with our continued coverage of the conthoracic israel and hamas. we start with ron dermerer. >> it's a densely populated area. we've not been perfect. no military has been perfect. even if 1% of those strikes go gone. then you can have these unintended tragedies. >> rose: we continue with riyad mansour. >> looking at what happened the last ten days the amount of suffering and tragedies in so many palestinian homes, are these conditions to create love and affections between neighbors or are they conditions to create

resentment and hatred. i think peace is a significant step to allow us to move away from the culture of hatred and resentment and racism and discrimination into the beginning of a culture we accept each other as equals and we start appreciating each other to live in freedom and dignity in their own homeland. >> rose: we conclude this evening with colin firth and emma stone they star in magic in the moon light a woody allen movie. >> there are other unseen factors that come into play not if there's a god or an after life or if the magic is real is feelings for other people that don't fit into logic as well which the twist i start to see in the third act. it's not just about whether she's a fake or whether she's real, it's this other thing that he can't make sense of.

>> ron dermerer, riyad mansour colin firth and emma stone when we continue. >> there's a saying around here: you stand behind what you say. around here, we don't make excuses, we make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it, when you know where to look. captioning sponsored by rose communications

from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin tonight with the escalating is crises in the middle east, the israel government intense fide their attack as part of the offensive against hamas. thousands of residence in the north of gaza are urged to leave there homes. palestinian officials have put the death toll so far at 220 people. the united nations says the majority of the casualties are civilians and egyptian cease-fire initiative collapsed on tuesday as hamas continued rocket attacks which resulted in the first israeli casualty. joining me from washington is israel ambassador to the unites ron dermer. thank you for inning us. there is a report from the "new york times" saying gaza invasion senior official military said wednesday the likelihood of

invasion of the gaza strip is very high and if you want to officially fight terrorism you must be present boots on the ground. let me just ask, don't you risk a kind of international approa>"ateium if you do that. >> i hope not. i hope the world continues to stand with israel. yesterday the government of isreal accepted a cease-fire proposal by the egyptions. that cease-fire was accepted by the whole international community also by the arab league and israel accepted it. it wasn't a popular position in our country because a lot of israelis, they were pushed through the cabinet and israel's cabinet voted for a cease-fire yet morning. israel's military called off their attacks for about six hours and during those six hours we had dozens of rockets flying into israel so israel had to

take the action to defend its population and resume those targeted air strikes. later in the evening the security cabinet of israel met and as you just said, they have decided to intensify the operations because we have to do something to protect our civilian population. we have two thirds to three quarters who in the last week had to go into bomb shelters. that's over 200 million americans. you can imagine what the american people would want their government and their military to do if 200 million americans were in bomb shelters and a thousand rockets were being fired at them terror organization in contiguous territory. i hope there will continue to be broad support for isreal taking these actions it needs to take with considerable restraint taking these actions to protect our population. >> rose: fair enough to say is it not the last time there was an invasion of gaza there

was an international react hundred and it had an impact on israel. >> i think what normally happens is whenever you're in a situation where civilians get put into harm's way that creates enormous pressures if those seville yunls are hit and those pressures are brought to bear on risen justly because israel does everything to keep palestinian civilians out of harm's way. hamas is targeting our civilians trying to kill as many isreal - we're trying to do everything to keep their civilians out of harm's way they're trying to do everything to push their civilians out of harm's way and the important point charlie is this. sometimes even the most legitimate actions of self-defense will lead to innocence being killed and you have these pictures and they're suffering and everything is

compassionate for these debts what do they do, pressure israel or pressure hamas. if they put pressure on israel you'll see the human shields that hamas is doing. the cynical use of the palestinian population for them to wage their war against israel they'll continue to into this as attack particular. if the appreciate leads to more issues against hamas it's not rocket science. i get for hamas it is rocket science. very deadly rocket science. >> rose: in warfare there's always i hate the term collateral damage. four young palestinian boys were killed wednesday when two explosions hit a beach where they were playing 2e fishing port of gaza status and witnesses say the cause was an israeli port awe 25bg was considered safe from the bombing campaign of the past nine days. >> look, i don't know the

specifics of the case. i assure you charlie israel did not target those children. we call off operations all the time when we are see sometimes we see it from our surveillance, we see children civilians coming into harm's way we call off operations. so i don't know the spoisksz that case. i do know that israel has conducted more than i think more than 1500 strikes into gaza. it's a densely populated area. we have not been perfect. no military has been perfect. even if 1% of those strikes go wrong, if 15 of those 1500 attacks go wrong then you can have these unintended tragedies. the question is what does the world do now. does the world engage in the same cycle of blaming israel therefore encouraging hamas to put more civilians into harm's way. if the world actually takes this case and says to hamas, do not put your civilians into harm's way, it's still legitimate there's a chance it will stop happening. but we have to defend our

people, charily. we can't just sit back, not take these actions and allow the equivalent of 200 million americans to sit in bomb shelters. >> rose: there are those that make this argument israeli see this as an opportunity to wipe out hamas. is that a goal to wipe out hamas. >> absolutely not. it flies in the face of just the fact. yet israel accepted a cease-fire, isreal's cabinet accepted a cease-fire. if it ended you wouldn't see any sort of widening of the operation. i will remind you charlie, a year and-a-half ago, november 2012, we had an eight-day confrontation with hamas. at the end of that israel ended a cease-fire and did not go in with a ground campaign. we have to take the action in order to defend the population. the prime minister was very clear, this is a sustained quiet for the people of israel. and we are doing everything we can to degrade hamas' offensive

capabilities and to keep palestinian civilians out of harm's way. we do not have a goal of reconquering gaza. we never had that goal. >> rose: i said to eliminate hamas. >> to eliminate hamas that's what that means because they're embedded in the population. you can degrade hamas' capabilities by going into different areas but if you're going to eliminate hamas' military capability you have to go into those areas. look one of the differences between gaza and the west bank is israel launched an operation defensive shield about 12 years ago. we went into the cities palestinian areas into the west bank sumeria, we rooted out virtually all of the terror infrastructure. that's why you don't see attacks happening from those areas. it's not simply that we have better cooperation now with palestinian security forces, it's that israel launched a military operation went into those cities, cleaned them out at a high price. but we did it. in gaza we haven't done such an operation. so to wipe out hamas and gaza requires a very broad

reconquering. that doesn't mean you're going to stay there but even that is not the goal that israel has set out in this operation. we can achieve that militarily. i hope we have a cease-fire from yesterday. >> rose: what role is egypt playing here. >> a just -- a just a minute pa proposal to cease-fire, a proposal backed by the arab league, the entire international community backed this cease-fire. we appreciate very much the very strong statements we received right of self-defense from president obama who backed the cease-fire from secretary kerry who also backed the cease-fire and isreal agreed. the problem is the entire world was supporting a cease-fire but the people with the rockets just said no and they continue to fire. so egypt is playing a very constructive role. they have taken out the capabilities in sinai the tunnels where these rockets were

going in, smuggling from iran through sudan into the sinai into gaza. egypt has played a very constructive role in prevent thing the smuggling awe facts and trying to bring a solution that leads to a sustained period of quiet and we appreciate egyptian efforts. >> rose: there's yet self defense but also not used is force. andrew sullivan wrote as for the argument that no democratic could tolerate terrorists attacks without responding with this kind of disproportionate force. what about where i grew up where pubs and department stores were blown up where the prime minister's entire cabinet were bombed and some killed in a hotel. i don't recall ariel bombings of catholic areas in bell fast, do you. >> well he has a pretty selective memory. i should go back to world war ii which is the last time you had the mass rocketing. we're not talking about individual terrorist attacks in

different cities. the differences what he's talking about and the ira is if the ira did not have the climb on lun de. the ira did not call to wipe out all of britain. there's one time in history where you had thousands of rockets that were fired at a city that was london during world war ii. 9 british responded by carpet bombing german cities. isreal is not doing that. it's using surgical structure. someone born and raised in this country and you can correct me if i'm wrong, if 200 million americans were in bomb shelters facing a thousand rockets from contiguous territory they would use at least as much force. you and i both know this, at least as much force than israel is using now. i think it's very important to be clear about this and not get confused from the disproportionate is. a lot of people think disproportionate you got 200 people killed on one side and

one israel killed on the other side that's disproportionate. that has nothing to do with proportionality. there are twice as many germans who were killed in world war ii as americans. does that mean that the americans used disproportionate force does it mean the nazis were right? of course not. this proportionality has to do with something else. the laws of war means you need a distinction between compattants and non-compattants. israel does that all the time. the second law is you have to use a proportion response and what it means is if you have a legitimate military target, the question is does attacking that target, does the gain you will get militarily justify the potential loss of civilian life. that's the concept of proportionality and isreal upholds the highest standards of international. i've seen that as somebody whose been in the war room with the prime minister. the i was amazed at the length that isreal goes to avoid civilian casualties unprecedented in warfare.

>> rose: there's your foreign minister who says israel should go all the way and reoccupy gaza. is that something the prime minister would consider. >> that's not the policy of the prime minister. that's the position of our foreign minister, it's a long standing position, he makes that case in our security cabinet but ultimately the government decides and the government has clearly stated the objectives as i said is sustained period of quiet. and i have no doubt that the entire cabinet will supported israel's ongoing efforts to provide security. >> rose: as this, the killing of the three teenagers, the killing of the palestinian the kind of exchange of rock else that have taken place and am that's taken place on top of the failure of the kerry mission put the opportunity and the possibility for israel palestinian agreement way way out of reach? >> listen, we hope not. the question is what will happen

from here. will after all of this and all the dust settles will we still have an alliance between president abbas and hamas, that's not a prospect for peace. if they answer and break with this alliance from hamas and goes back to negotiations with israel we can continue to move forward. we have a process with the palestinians we're deeply appreciative of the efforts of the administration. secretary kerry, a lot of time and effort. america has done a lot on its plate as well. we appreciate the time they've invested. we don't think that was a waste of time. we don't think this was some sort of a failure. there's an ongoing effort, you know. we have tried to reach a piece with the palestinians for 20 years. there have been five primary ministers who tried to make peace with the palestinian, probably a dozen northern minute -- foreign ministers. it's not going to happen because that president or that president

or this secretary of state or that secretary of state is going to come up with a magic formula. the form of magic formula for peace is simple. will the palestinians recognize a jewish state once and for all. will they make most with the idea the jewish me will have a sovereign state in our ancestral homeland. once they make most with that idea, which they haven't yet once they make peace with that idea we'll be able to resolve this conflict. all those other issues borders refugees everything else they talk about we will be able to resolve but they have to cross the room. >> rose: it's interesting you say that because there are some people who are willing to say, to accept the idea of israel as a jewish state. but they have a very different position about all those other issues which you say can easily be resolved specifically having to do with right of return and jerusalem. >> the question for the people of israel is very simple. do we have a partner on the palestinian side that really wants to end the conflict once and for all. then really making peace with

the idea they will live next to a nation state of the jewish people. once the israel people know they have that partner you'll see a different reality. if you have a partner that's not really willing to accept u then the fear always is the terror that israel will draw from will be used as a launching pad from further attacks. don't forget we're talking about gaza. we left gaza in 2005. we pulled out of all the settles, we uprooted 10,000 people fromheir homes, we pulled out our military. people were hoping at the time the chairman of the world bank james wolfenson he got together a group of philanthropists, many of them jewish. they invested money in buying all these agricultural facilities, greenhouses hot houses because the hope in the wake of israel's withdraw we trigger a new area between arabs and palestinians and use this opportunity to focus on prosperity and develop for their

own people and create what some people said at the time a singapore on the mediterranean. instead they got an iran and the ones who suffered the most are the residents who live there. as soon as you got a palestinian leadership dedicated to improving the lives of their own people, dedicated to the idea they will life permanently next to a sovereign jewish state we will be able to resolve all those other issues, i have though doubt about it. >> rose: ron thank you. ron dermer, israel's ambassador to the united states from washington. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: we continue our conversation about the crises between israel and hamas with are are riyad mansour. i many pleased to have him back at this table many welcome. >> thank you for having me. >> rose: tell me what's happening on the ground and what's happening on the negotiation. >> first of all this aggression

is not between israel and hamas, it is between israel and the occupying power and power of people including though the 1.8 million palestinians in the gaza strip. >> rose: it's not just hamas that is sending the rockets into israel. >> it means that the palestinian people are at the receiving end which they have been killed in eight days and 1600 haveeen injured. more than 78% of them according to the statistics are civilians. >> rose: fair enough it's a tragic situation. who do you believe are sending the rockets into israel. is it the palestinian people orb is it hamas which are separate somehow? >> it is not the palestinian people. and by the saming token it's not the israel people who are sending aircraft and the sheriffs against the gaza strip much. it's israel -- >> rose: does hamas represent

the palestinian people. >> huh model is a component of the palestinian political fabric as you know it is part of the exoanltd of the fabric as well as those extreme terrorists settlers who could not have a young palestinian boy in east jerusalem tortured him and set him on fire alive and killed him. now we deal with the israel government. and we deal with the tragedies and i think that the continuation of the occupation will put us in a situation to see one episode after another of the kind that we are witnessing in the gaza strip and southern part of israel. but what we need is to have peace so that we can say we truly have a two-state solution. we are committed to this process. it has committed and negotiated

in good faith for nine months with the involvement of secretary of state which we thank him for his efforts. but unfortunately the israel side was not negotiating in good faith with us. >> rose: i'm raising a point that they would raise and you may have seen ambassador dermer raise certainly. israel accepted a cease-fire proposed by the egyptians hamas did not. >> president abbas is the president of the palestinian people and head of the reconciliation government accepted the egyptian proposals and as we speak he is in egypt to discuss with the egyptian leaders the implementation of this egyptian initiative. and also two days ago the entire council of arab foreign ministers endorsed this egyptian effort. and we are putting all possible efforts with many parties including americans, european, u.n. in order to see the

cease-fire to be put. >> rose: with respect to ambassador, hamas did not accept it. >> that's an issue. president abbas met with one of the leaders of hamas in cairo just about an hour ago. and we are engaging all parties including our brothers in hamas in order to bring this situation and aggression against all people to an end. we need a cease-fire to be put in place. hamas negotiated through the egyptians the cease-fire of 2012. and what the egyptian propose now is similar and we hope that at the end of the day, that they also would accept this call by the egyptians. >> rose: what happens if the worst occurs if there's an invasion, an occupation of gaza? >> we hope that that does not happen. and my understanding i was told by some senior official just a

few minutes ago that the u.n. asked for a number of hours if i'm not mistaken maybe six hours we hope it will be longer for an airing ground not to allow this tragic situation in the gaza strip to be compounded by additional number of people killed but i understand that four boys were killed today from one family. >> rose: on the beach. >> on the beach. and many familiar wes were killed in a large group. in this connection if somebody wants to say that isreal has the right to defend itself, with a kind of defending when you kill children when you kill women when you kill elderly, when you kill disabled and large numbers of civilians that is not self-defense, these are crimes. >> rose: as are crimes in which people blew up by citizens killed women and children as well. >> that is true and we are against the killing of innocent civilians by whomever and in any place and anywhere. and that is the position of

president mahmoud abbas and that is the position of the palestinian leadership. >> rose: who do you think influences hamas. if iran for example believed to be the source of their weapons could be persuaded to exercise leverage against hamas, could they stop them? >> you know as well as i do that there are 90 forces in the middle east who have so many different agendas and they are influencing other groups. and of course iran and other countries have their own agendas and they have their own interest and if they find allies who can acquiesce with their thinking and with what they wanted, then that's what they pursue. so we understand that, you know, the hamas, for example, has relationship not only with iran but with other arab countries and other countries in the region who might have their own views and interest on things and

therefore they tend to have some influence of hamas. >> rose: would you include qatar in that way. >> yes. >> rose: so qatar and iran primarily have influence do they not. >> also turkey has influence and that influence is leading president mahmoud but after he finishes his meetings in egypt today, he will be going to turkey and from there he will be going to the gulf including i assume qatar. he is not going to leave a stone unturned in order to bring an end to this bloodshed as quickly as possible because every minute passes without having a cease-fire in place, we lead so many precious lives to ask the palestinian people especially children and women and others and we want to stop that. we are suching a lot from so many tragedies and we're suffering a lot from so many losses to our civilian

population and we want an end to it. >> rose: when they were bringing hamas together, did hamas have to give up anything in order to gain that child of union? >> i think they did, yes. mainly they gave up their control in running the effort in the gaza strip which from their perspective this is a big thing that they have together. let me just also add it was only israel, the only country that opposed this government of national government of consensus and they declared that openly. in fact this war that we are witnessing, it might be for the objective of israel destroying the government of national consensus. they want to show president abbas in the west bank during the first two weeks of this episode that he is helpless and he cannot defriend his people. and now he wants to show hamas that is responsible for the tragedy of the people in the gaza strip and they want the

palestinian people to come to the conclusion that we don't want this national consensus government. that is the objective. and he did not succeed in convincing a single government including the united states government not to support the national consensus government, the government of president mahmoud abbas. when they are divide the israelis were saying they can't because they don't represent all the palestinian including those in gaza. he didn't want to negotiate with them because he elected hamas and not elected peace. he's the one who struck the deal with hamas in 2002 and they are the ones who had a negotiation in the exchange of prisoners. so if they allowed themselves to have all these relationship with hamas even through the egyptians and others, then why is not president abbas who is the president of all the palestinian people not to reach hamas and

all the political components within our political spectrum in order to unify our homeland. >> rose: when president abbas made that move, did he assume that he could change hamas? in terms of the kinds of things they they had are so unacceptable to israelis. >> i think that hamas was changing and it is changing. there's nothing under the sun that doesn't change every day. and they are changing. they're the ones who struck this agreement with the israelis in 2012 of a cease-fire and they respected it for that period of time and they are the one engaged in a negotiation with israel to exchange the prisoners. i think they are changing and i believe that leaders of hamas who said thing to president abbas that he is in favor of a state on the borders of 1967 palestinian state which obviously would be an act with

israel and he is in favor of not having violence and military operation, and told president abbas you can conduct the negotiation, usual in charge of negotiation as the head of the plo. we believe that these are steps in the right direction of hama changing its behavior and its political thinking to be very close to the thinking of the plo. >> rose: why don't they change their behavior. >> i believe reality would teach all of us to be more sensitive to things that will bring less suffering to the people and you know the objective is to end occupation. the objective is independence of the state of palestine. the objective is to be a state to allow our people to live on dignity and freedom next to israel and to enter a chapter of new relationship between us and the israelis. i think all palestinians including hamas are moving in that direction. nobody would like to live in misery and pain and continuous

occupation forever. >> rose: at the end of the kerry mission the problem was they just don't trust each other. palestinians don't trust israelis, israelis don't trust palestinians. >> when you see all the suffering in the palestinian home are these conditions to create love and affection between neighbors or are they conditions to create resentiment and hatred. i think peace is a significant step that would allow us to move away from the culture of hatred and resentment and racism and discrimination into a beginning of a culture where we accept each other as equals and we start appreciating each others as people who deserve to live n freedom and dignity in their own homeland. >> rose: ambassador, good to have you here. >> thank you very much for

having me. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: magic in the moon light is the latest feature film by woody allen it is a romantic comedy set in the 1920's south of france. the film stars colin firth as stanley a magician who tries to demask a spiritual psychic played by emma stone. here is the trailer for the film. >> you are still the best in the world. >> i heed i don't remember help. >> the plot thinkingens. >> the family also resides in the south of france with a woman who has them believing she's a spirit medium. >> you are the greatest debunker of faiths and spiritualists. >> she won't fool me. >> look into my eye and told me thing about me she could never have known. >> she's very pleasant to look at. >> she's a visionary and a vision. >> i'm getting a mental impression. >> considering you are wearing a suit that's pretty darn

impressive. >> family doesn't believe in spiritualists, he believes you're all -- >> it's appealing. >> i understand you're holding a seance tonight. >> the planets are in alignment. >> give us a sign. >> you are questioning my common sense. >> you are so certain about the world. >> i tried to teach you that we don't know. >> tell me about my colorful part. >> i remember a parliament. >> go on. >> we cannot possibly know this. i'm overwhelmed sophie.

>> there's more mystery, more magic. >> my opt -- aunt used to bring me here as a boy. >> rose: joining me now the film's two star actors, colin firth and emma stone. pleased to have them at this table. welcome. let me just start where i am compelled to star because of the conversation we had before. what is it about woody allen and a woody allen film that you're drawn to and that you have some trepidation about. >> it's a bit of a high wire act in a way because he shoots, this is very substantial material space and you're up against very very good people and he knows

how to make been a film flourish out of a relationship. and a body of work years and years you can pick a decade. >> rose: and he can do many things. >> he can. >> rose: he can write, he can play music, he can direct. >> so the challenge is massive when you don't want to be the first. >> rose: you said he doesn't rehearse very much. the first shoot is the rehearsal. >> that's right. we were given a script. you were given a month in advance as well. >> a month. >> hearing all sorts of things about his approach to work some of which asked me and i said absolutely not. one which he doesn't direct either and he certainly does. >> rose: i think you said he had notes. >> yes, absolutely. >> rose: that's directing

isn't it. >> i find him to be a very involved director. a lot of people will tell you kind of sits on the sidelines and doesn't say much and had he feel like they don't know if they're doing it riht or not and i did. not have that experience at all. >> rose: does he have fun on the set or not. >> i think. >> rose: is he funny on the set. >> he hides it well a lot. i'm sure he's having fun on the inside. you know. we had fun on the outside. >> rose: he's focused. >> yes. >> there wasment a lot of chitchat in between. the trouble is if you get a reclusive new york intellectual and a very repressed englishman, you put them together -- >> you throw in the southwestern girl. >> she livens things up. >> rose: this is a dream for you. >> i think it is for most people. for many actors i think many actors. >> rose: how did it come about? >> for me i got a phone call in

april of last year and they said he would like to meet me. i went to his office and i had one of those three and-a-half minute meetings that you probably heard about where i walked in and i was standing for about a minute of it and we sat down on the couch and he said okay, thank you and i left. and it was three and-a-half minutes. >> rose: that was it? >> yes. >> rose: it was like a question? >> it was like where do you live. >> rose: that kind of stuff. >> what's that coat. it's hot, take it off. >> rose: so he already knew about you too. that meeting was to simply sort of say we're going to do this thank you very much. >> he's a pretty wonderful casting director and i don't think that, i mean to this day he told me that he saw 30 minutes of one where i had been on the treadmill once when he was walking on the treadmill as

he does every morning. i don't know that he's really seen me in anything. >> rose: in any other films. >> i mean possibly. >> rose: i bet they put something together. >> i don't know. >> rose: i've got to believe because of his interest is so catholic that he's, he thawz -- knows all about the movies that are being made, he knows the nba. everything that's happening in new york and the world of music and restaurants. he's a frequenter to all the best restaurants in new york. he seems to be a person really plugged into the world. >> yes, i think that's probably true. >> rose: okay. so this movie. you're a guy. you are a person who as a sideline sort of debunks people who are out there. tell me about the relationship and what you discover in the character she plays that makes

it an interesting relationship. >> there are parallels to pygmalion here. i think that you know, oscar wilde, he's basically in some ways i think this has -- -- >> rose: what's the beginning of that quote. >> that's plagiarizing. he's not doing that. he's clearly i would say influenced by the structure. and it's freshed out with something which is entirely something of his own to the point where i don't think he even spot the equivalent. but, what you have is a super silliest self-assured man. >> rose: you call him super silliest, judgmental and air arrogant and has a superior

intellect. >> yes. >> rose: his first impression of her is. >> that she's a southerner, uneducated. i can't remember them now but o the extent i first saw it do you really really need to hear any more of this unsympathetic diminishing of this person. but actually it's all to set him up for a fall. >> rose: we create this sense of -- >> yes because one of the themes about it is calling certainty into question. i think that you are setting yourself up as fool hardy. >> rose: how does this character see him this young sophie. >> that's complicated i think. >> rose: well try. >> sophie there's more to the story than what we see of her in the first i would say half or three quarters of the movie.

i think what you see of sophie is a real draw to this kind of life-style and this kind of sophistication in mind but she had had that exposure before and she had this gift and her mother was a very hard-driving woman who decided to make money off of her daughter so she spent the majority of her life trying to make enough money to survive. and so obviously stanley is not someone that comes along very often and takes an interest in her. >> rose: she's determined to try to make him believe that she's not like everybody else. >> very determined. yes. >> rose: and does a pretty good job at it. >> yes. i mean, i think that it's dealing with the whole business of having faith in things that

can't be verified. whether that's theatrical purposes on stage. and stan three provides for himself. he's a paradox in a way because he doesn't mind fooling people as stage craft. he makes an art form of suspending disbelieve in an audience but then he's prepared to come clean and say it's a trick. he just doesn't like getting appropriated a some support of spiritually authentic thing. but there are other unseen factors that come into play. it's not just about whether there's a god or an after life or whether the magic is real it's actually feelings for other people which don't fit into logic coming as well which is i think the drift that we start to see in the third act. it's not about whether she's a fake or whether she's real it's this other thing she can't make sense of. >> rose: what is that. >> it's love really if you want to call it that. but this encounter was a humbling experience.

>> rose: you don't know somebody's a fake until you fall in love with her. >> yes. there are other factors here because it has to do with his friendship and his best friend. so you're getting things coming at you which you know weren't the plan. >> rose: take a look at this. this is a clipping which stanley is mocking sophie. >> excuse me i understand you're holding a sale tonight. >> she's been waiting for the right moment and now she's saying the planets are in alignment. >> what do they have to be in alignment with, your vertebra. >> can you do a seance if someone in the room is a non-believer. >> when you contact the spirits are we able to see the souls and how are they different from ghosts or are there ghosts. i should think souls are quite different. >> have you ever heard of ecto plasm.

>> is that milky or like yogurt. >> rose: you're very big on the idea that if you're going to make a movie you really do inhabit the character and his time. >> i think i just do it for fun. i research a lot but i don't know if anything i've ever done the research has helped what i've done on the screen. i didn't go to universities and i spent my life doing this instead. i enjoy it. i diverts me into some area of live or history. >> rose: and you? >> difficult go -- >> rose: you left school when you did a power point presentation to your parents why you should go to l.a. >> you really know what you're talking about. we don't need to talk about it nowing i'll tell you later. >> rose: when you were 16.

and convinces her parents by the way she should get on the next bus and go to l.a. >> not a bus, it was a car. we drove ourselves. >> at 14. >> at 15. >> rose: 15. made a presentation. here's another clip. this is your leading a seance. here it is. >> give us a sign. harry, is that you harry? spirits once for yes, twice for no. harry, are you okay? are you happy? oh, spirit. if you can hear me, give me a sign.

>> rose: it's amazing. we were just talking about the technique of you looking at things and you never know what scenes are going to be cut out and that kind of thing. but he works fast. he cut this movie in nine days. >> this movie that he's doing now i believe unless my math is off his 50th the movie that we're shooting right now. the one, yes. and i mean his process is so i think, he's really, it's ritualistic. he's quick. >> rose: maybe a pattern there now. >> in post production, he never dubbed a line in any of his films. it's standard procedure you do what he asks. he has sound reasons you always go in and do voice work

afterwards. he said he never done it in any movie. he said hoped never to have to do it. i presume he's not familiar with it. after 40 or 50 films never having done it no, it would be like, he wouldn't even know the technology. >> rose: i bet if you have dinner with him he's one of the funniest and most interesting. >> i haven't had the pleasure. >> yes, yes. >> he was funny though, even when he was directing often at my expense. but he's the only director ever to refer to my performance as someblastic. >> rose: maybe he meant ease

of performance. >> he did. >> rose: he has enough. >> usually if he's happy with the scene you could hear the crew packing up to go film something else. >> rose: his movies don't cost a lot to make do they. >> i don't have an idea what the budget is. >> i don't either. >> it's a lot of very compelling reasons. >> rose: that was the thing when he filmed in paris these cities were making public the production in part. that's one of the reasons he moved to europe and started making films. this film. >> road island. >> rose: you went into that three minutes. >> i honestly showed up certain of my being fired. i showed up and i said i'm going

to get fired. >> rose: before you said a word. >> before i said a word. i was absolutely and i mean this convinced i was going to be fired, convinced. i've infer been so convinced. >> rose: after you did the first scene did you feel more comfortable. >> no not after our first scene. we had a scene that we reshot. >> rose: what was wrong with the scene. >> i think we couldn't get the tone exactly right without you know the rehearsal and without a tape read you kind of finding you and he finding his and we're all sort of you know. he often reshoots the first day. >> he did in our case and the scenes didn't make the final cut. >> rose: the first day scenes you reshot didn't make it to the final cut. are you when you see a film often disappointed because what you thought was maybe your best

moments didn't make it to the final cut or do you care? >> if i ever had a good moment, they use whatever they can get. no, this is not some sort of schtick, i promise you. you're going fishing. i told you had a bad feeling about this. this makes may case. >> rose: does academy award oscar mean anything to you? >> lay it on. >> rose: they made a mistake. you just got lucky because they promoted the hell out of that, otherwise ... >> i can find fine work elsewhere, i'll take you to know that. [laughter] >> you are the king of under appreciation. >> rose: the two things we

know, expect the worst and under appreciated. >> yes, exactly. >> well no, appreciated for other things, you know. >> rose: what. >> non-meritricious. >> meritricious? >> we have right angles all through this conversation. >> rose: so what did you learn from woody allen? >> honestly, and this is, you know, the way i approach like literally nothing. i think the way i have tended to approach life and work maybe to my detriment at time is to not take thing too seriously and i don't think that he is taking his, i think he take his work very seriously. he cares very much but i think he has a bit of perspective on life because we're all clinging to a whole nothingness. but i found him to be --

>> rose: you both -- >> we're careening into this. >> rose: let's talk about this. how did you prepare for this. how did you get up for this character of sophie. you took that seriously. >> i take that slightly seriously. i read a little bit about houdini who was calling out because there was a psychic that falsely spoken for his mother and he was incredibly angry with his mother. am i correct? >> i don't know about that part. >> i read a little bit about that and honestly i just watched a lot of clara bow and her physicality. i figured sophie probably would have seen clara bow and she's an actress and she's a very

vaudevillianistic and i had this whole idea it would be under played but woody wanted the hands in the air and fingers to the temples and this kind of. >> rose: like what you're playing isn't it. >> yes, that's what they were like these psychics, seeing the future. >> rose: they were on stage. >> yes. >> rose: the theatrics added to the disbelief. >> i don't believe i did her justice and she's probably mad at me somewhere in the nothingness. is there something? >> rose: owe are you a mystic all. is there anything mystical about you? >> oh my god i'm entirely mystical. am i not a mystic? >> i don't buy it. >> i love all of it.

i love all of it so much. i wouldn't say i am a mystic but i'm very interested in it. very interested. >> rose: really? like you read book or what? >> i read books, i've seen psychics. >> rose: to get ready for this roll, have you ever been to a seance. >> first when i met woody it was a dream come true. when he offered me the role and i went to read the part and it was to play a psychic, i cried

because i was so overjoyed to play a psychic because i loved it my whole life. >> rose: do you believe in spiritualism and all that stuff. >> yes, 10 captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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