good evening from los angeles. tonight a conversation with ruben blades, musician, songwrit songwriter, activist and occasional politician has won 12 grammy awards, been nominated for three emmys, has a law degree from harvard, and ran for the presidency of panama back in 1994. wh winning 18% of the vote. he remains committed to his activism and artistry. he has a new cd out called "tangos." conversation with ruben blaze blades co -- blades coming up right now.

>> there are some artist who refuse to stay in any one silo. ruben blades is one of those artists. he won 12 grammys and he remains politically engaged speaking out on the issue of the day including poverty, corruption and underdevelopment. he's on tour and his latest cd

is called "tangos." we'll start our conversation first and we look at ruben blades singing from "tangos." [ spinni [ singing in foreign language ] >> i got the cd, i thought it was a misprint. i said "tangos"? ruben is doing tangos? >> yeah. we thought about it.

carlos and i, carlos is the arranger and producer, about doing this for about 39 years. first time we spoke about it. it had to do with the lyrics, basically. i was very curious about how the lyrics would be affected by the tango atmosphere and the instrumentation. what would happen to the lyric? i think that was the main source of the interest for me. how would the lyric be affected by the atmosphere that tango provideded? >> why is that such a concern for you? >> because i'm always stressing the importance of the written word. and some people feel okay if you do salsa music which is action oriented, whatever you do in salsa is not going to work. in any other genre because it's salsa. and if you bring this idea a

little further, that means if you're born in a neighborhood, then you cannot escape whatever problems the neighborhood may have. i mean maybe to extreme. i really felt there is more to the lyric than what was being expressed through the cuban format. i wanted to know what effect would that have? not just in terms of how people would understand and relate to the lyric, but how would i relate to it myself as a singer? >> i don't want to demonize or cast aspersion on any artists, but there are some artists for whom lyrical content is supreme. there are others who are into the beat and into the groove. some into the melody. let me ask one more thing about this lyric. how and why did the lyric become so important to you?

>> because i believe part of the problem that we have today is that we have -- we have lost the skills to communicate. i really think that music itself being one of the greatest possible vehicles for mass communication should be probe to its extreme, to see how effective it can actually become. which is one of the reasons i became also interested in presenting political points of view. i say political only because that's what they ultimately are being identified as. there were just points of view about what was going on in the city. so i was very, very, ve much -- with ""tangos," i was interested in the emotional aspect. would the lyric become more

understandable, more genuine, more truthful, more reflective? >> so before i move on, let me button hole this thing and pin this down. so you take your salsa stuff. you transform it into tango. you and carlos together. you take your salsa stuff and transform it into tango. the project is out. what did you learn? what have you discovered about what happens to the lyric when you flip it? >> first of all, i think all the people that are familiar with the songs that were originally record as salsa will discover the song again. and will discover in the song, within the song. elements that they had not seen before. again salsa action, tango oot

atmosphere, reflection. they'll find elements of the song that props they didn't even consider existed before. and as for me, as a singer, the greatest discovery that i think one can make to discover that i can still be surprised and moved by something that i thought i knew. and again, take this to family relationships. take this to friends. i mean for one to -- person to understand what you thought you knew still held areas that were unknown to you. that you can still be moved by that which you thought defined and done with. apply that to relationships between a man and a woman, a man and his family, a man and his friends, a man and his community.

so i was moved to the core. >> you have done so much for the work over the years. we'll come to the other parts of your renaissance personality in a moment here. you've done so much work, ruben, musically. how do you go about choosing what is in tracks that you're going to try to turn into pay dirt? >> i try to -- that's a good question. i actually went for songs that i was very curious about, like the song about a prostitute that is trying to find love. that was my own experience, my first adult relationship with a woman. and those two songs -- one of the first songs i ever wrote

when i was studying in university, law if panama. those three, the lyrics of those three songs i thought i'm really curious to see how what happens with them in this atmosphere, with this treatment. and the other ones were songs that i thought were not going to perhaps work. i want to see what would happen. it's interesting because i wasn't choosing just in term of thinking what people are going to -- want to hear. it was more like this is probably not going to work. it was an honest decision. if you listen to that song, the tango version of it, carlos and i wanted to demonstrate the

composition of a man, of his world internally. it's a song about the last 24 hours in the day of a man who's totally overwhelmed by economic problems. and what he does during the whole day and what ends up happening to him. so the band kept playing. we were recording with this track, the city orchestra. it was in the czech republic. and carlos interpreted -- the interpreter told the people would were excellent musicians, if you play and you think you're doing it wrong, then you're doing it right. cherp like -- what nut do we have here. oh, they're from latin america. oh, okay. but that was like what carlos

said, that's basically the way i felt with those other songs. and another song was like, you know, i mean. [ speaking spanish ] it's just like, let's see how it sounds. >> your answer to this question, ruben, leads me to ask a broader question about your life and your life task which is what has made you such a curious person? i mentioned a moment ago that you are a renaissance man of sorts. again, we'll come to the stuff that i've been talking about in your life and are doing from music to acting to politics to social advocacadvocacy, et cete. have you always been a curious person? why are you so curious? >> my grandma. my grandmother -- i think being born in panama was a blessing. because panama is a poor city. it's a really -- the mentality

is i remember that admitting things in, you know, ideas coming in and out all the time. when i was a kid, my grandmother used to grab me, you know, working class family. she used to grab me by the hand and we would go walking down the street towards the south sea past the masons. they had a home, the masons had a building there. and stand there and look at the ocean for hours. sitting down talking. i remember asking, but there was my grandmother who allowed me to be curious, who allowed me to ask questions. i remember i asked my grandmother once, i mean we were walking and going to the movie theater.

it was nearby. ten cents. they had the coldest air conditioning unit in the western hemisphe hemisphere. but we useded to go the ed td t. and then there was a gentleman that sold hotdogs for five cents. it was wonderful. movies, comics, documentary, what not. and as we were going there, a funeral procession passed by. and my grandmother stood. and i stood and i -- so i was about 3, 4 years owe. i asked my grandma, why are you stopping? she said, there is a man, you know, a procession to the cemetery. i said what is a cemetery? she said that's where people go when they die. i said what does that mean, die? and then she explained to me. and then i said you're going to die one day? and she looked at me and she said, yes. and so will you. so that kind of scenario, you

know, of like i ask a question and i don't get this -- but i get an answer. and in being allowed to question when she said who are you praying to, grandma? i'm praying to god. i think about it. and i ask her, who does god pray to? and then she would look at me and we would have a conversation. so i grew up with her sense of justice. she was always fighting for women's vote, women's -- she had four children. she divorced -- she married twice and divorce twice. she got divorced in 1915. that was tough. and she had gone and got educated and high school was the biggest education you could have at the time and she did. and then she had a job. she did not want alimony from either of the two men she married. so she had four children, two men, two women. she didn't have money to send the four to school.

so she sent the women to school. and the two men she taught at home. when i ask her why did you do that? she said, it's a man's world. the women have to be educated. she taught me how to read when i was 4 or 5. and i would never heard you can't do this. and she talked to me about painting, about writing, about drawing. so i grew up thinking if i like it, i'll try it. >> you took her seriously. >> absolutely. >> but everybody else thought it was nuts. >> yeah. >> you know? when i was 6 years old i wrote a story. and i went to -- she encourageded mencouraged me so i wrote a short story that i sent to a national first grader's competition. and it was -- it won.

but i was cited by my parents and everybody saying he could never have written this on his own. and my grandmother got very upset because she went with me the okay, you know, to receive the thing. and she always thought, they always knew that i could do all these things. i wasn't sure. i was just having fun while trying to do these things. >> it's one thing i love the story. i said many times that we are who we are because somebody loved us. >> absolutely. >> we are who we are because somebody loved us. >> i agree. >> so i love the fact that your grandmother allowed you to be curious. it's one thing to be curious. it's another thing for that c e curiosity to lead you to question authority. curiosity is one thing in and of itself. but to question authority is another. you have done a lot of that in your lifetime. >> again, with curiosity and

when you try to reach for a rational response to that curiosity, you learn also to discern it and identify lies and/or intents to deviate the question. so i wouldn't give up on that. and when you're a kid, and you ask a lot of questions, you a lot times do not get -- you're not -- they don't give you attention either. they say shut up and leave me alone or whatever. but you have to also understand that in the conditions that we were raised in the place where we were, that's why i say panama was such an important place, you have people from all over. it was working class. but you had -- everybody shared the same sort of goals and the same values and ideas. all our families are composed of

women, mothers and grandmothers who died without ever having a holiday. you know, they were workers. my mother never finished elementary school my father didn't. and that was a reality for many of us. so there was this thing where there was everybody was saying we got to study. we have to move. we have to be -- take the thing further than they could because that's what the parents want. so that environment also allowed me to be in contact with other people and measure ourselves. and question ourselves and pick up from others questions and positions. and there was a moment where the more information that you got, the less you were going to be happy with those kind of responses that you would get. so immediately the idea of questioning authority was just came with the knowledge that you receive. >> so when you became the authority in your position as minister of tourism for your

native panama, what did you learn? what was the take away from having actually served as a government official? >> i learned, first of all, i came out of there less selfish a person than when i walked in. because i dedicated five years of my life. i didn't do any -- >> no music, no touring, no movies. >> no. i didn't even have a guitar in the house. because i didn't want to be tempted or distracted. it may have been extreme. but that's the way i go. that's the way i play. and less selfish. i understand people more. i used to be in that sense arrogant in that you -- when you explain things or you say things that you think and know or know are true and people don't respond to them, you think that they're doing it on purpose. and that is arrogant. a lot of times people don't respond because they don't understand. they just don't get it. so you have to teach them. so that's another thing i

learned. we have to be patient with people. we have to listen to people. you also have to understand what is the core of the issue? what is the core of the problem? i didn't get it before i was in that position, had that responsibility. i came out also knowing that you can actually work and make things happen from government. some people go into government and come out of government disappointed. i didn't come out of government disappointed. i thought to myself, boy, if this will that some of us have because i wasn't the only one, there were other good people as well. not everybody goes to government to serve themselves and not the country. but if there were more of us, if that will to grow more instead of fingers we'll be a hand. and we would work as a hand. so i came out of there thinking this can be done. we can really make this happen. and as far as the question regarding what you were saying

originally about how i -- what did i learn and being in that position, having that kind of power that i didn't need it to be who i am. >> that is powerful. >> yeah. because they say what are you going to do? mr. minister, you're not minister now. >> i don't need to be recognize as that to be who i am. i don't need that kind of -- >> you are -- it's clear thanked to your grandmother that you are so comfortable with the skin that you're in and that's the point you're making now. you learned it. you didn't need the power. >> right. >> to be who your grandmother helped shape you to be. you're comfortable being in the skin that you're in. so what then is the joy, what is the take away from your acting what you get a chance to play somebody else? >> first of all, first of all, we all have -- we all are fans of someone. so i mean i've been seeing

movies since i was a kid. like i said before. so for me all of a sudden to work with people that, you know, harrison ford, i don't know if he can sing, but i never seen him singing. so i -- >> pretty good actor though. >> yeah. so for me to be a part of his world or jack nicholson. to work with these people for me was like a dream come true. i mean -- but also, to play a character that was not me allowed me to be relevant even more. the ability to look at the situation from a differt perspective. which i already have from being a lawyer. when you train, it is training, when you go through it, you learn to see the argument from different points of view. the worst thing can you do is just see it from your point of view. i put myself in the other person's position.

so when you do a film and you do characters that are not necessarily you, you learn a lot about yourself. but you also learn to be more solid to people. you learno understand people better. i mean i find -- plus, it's fun. you know, i still would like to do a western one day or a pirate. >> this next movie coming out is the, the hands of stone. >> yeah. >> a great fighter. >> and a great guy. i always have had and always will have tremendous respect and affection for him. >> you're playing what in this movie? >> i'm playing carlos, his manager. and see that was tough to do because buy graphiographical fi not necessarily representations, faithful representations of how thing work. and when you have some of the players alive or when you have some of the people who knew the

players, no matter what you do, you're going to have somebody that's going to come to you and go, that's not the way it was! and you go like, well, no. that's not the way it was. and i used to tell everyone, you're not from panama, i am. i want to bump into people in the bus or supermarket or walking around the street. and so i think all in all, i think it's not documentary. i think they stuck to their guns. >> can you tell me, you are such a renaissance man. in 30 seconds or less, can you tell me what is next? what have you not done that you want to do now? >> i want to rest. >> you know what, i'm going to let you do that right now. after i tell people that the new project from ruben blades is called "tangos." he has taken some of his best salsa stuff and turned them into tangos. i think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how much you enjoy

what he has done with his classic stuff. i didn't know it would work. it does. and you can, mr. blades, thank you sir. you are free to go rest after i tell you thanks for watching, as always. keep your faith. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> i'm tavis smiley, next, we'll have a conversation with bhaskar sunkara. we'll see you then. er

>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin with afghanistan. joining us is ashraf ghani. he is the man who won t runoff that is now being audited in the race for president for afghanistan. >> the circumstances of afghanistan require consultati consultation, our national interest demands we consult closely and we will because reforms are required in both national and international experience shown is that carrying out intensive and extensive reform is best done when you consult stakeholders and arrive at full understanding