good evening from los angeles. i'm tavis smiley. first a conversation with dr. stanley prusiner who has a discovery with creons challenged everything science thought about the root causes of infection. his discovery may lead to new ways dealing with alzheimer's. he's chronicled all of this in a must tone called madness and memory, the zofrnry of prons. then we turn to a conversation with terry crews who is starring in a comedy series "brooklyn 99 "on fox. the former nfl player has a new book out called "man hd: how to be a better man or just how to live with one." we invite you to join us on those conversations coming up right now.

the road to scientific breakthrough can be fraught with

enough drama. stanley prusiner is the director for institute of neurodegenertive diseases and has written a new memoir, the discovery of preon, the principal of disease which reveals his dramatic journey from pariah to profit. he challenge everything that the scientific community thought they knew about path owe generals leading the way for that matter which eventually might become a breakthrough for treatments like alzheimer's, parkinson's and other forms of dement dementia. we owe you a thank you for your persistence when they told you were wrong. >> thank you. >> i want to get to your work about preons and what the hope is for fighting cures for these illnesses and diseases in a moment. but your book fascinating. it's really an interesting sort of inside account of the fact

that scientific breakthrough can be both collaborative but also pretty cutthroat. i'm not sure that the uninformed, the uninitiate like me knew how cutthroat this can be. >> well, i think cutthroat may not be the perfect word to describe this. i think that people in science work very hard. and they have a problem. their problem that only one person, one group can discover a new breakthrough. now if on the other hand people are working very hard, they're not making big discoveries, they're making small advances, and someone comes along and says oh, you know, our thinking has been wrong in this particular area. our thinking is not been quite correct. and then they offer something which is radically different. a lot of people get upset. i think i understand this very well now. but at the time, it was very hard. >> it seems to me that if a

scientist is going to be true to his or her calling or profession is all about, you have to be willing to be wrong. so why get upset when somebody says, you know what? our thinking on this has been wrong. if it is ultimately about trying to get it right? >> well, that's what i thought. that's how i thought. just like you said. and i was surprised that scientists turned out to be as conservative as i think they are in general. and i think that comes from the fact that everybody's working very hard. the competitive nature to science is good in many respect because it pushes people to work hard. it pushes them to publish as fast as they can so they don't sit on new data, new findings. they put them out there when they feel reasonably certain about them. and so i think all of that conspires in a way to create an atmosphere that sometimes makes the acceptance of new things, or at least considering new things

an unpleasant and sometimes irritating experience. >> what do you say to the viewer right now who has experienced or will experience what i and others have experienced which is that when you're confronting a particular problem, it is frustrating often times for those of us who are not scientists to know what the right choice or decision to make is say about a health challenge because the science on it is all over the place? now i understand getting a second opinion, third opinion or fourth opinion. we can do that. but how do we live and gaffe natu navigate through a world where where he read something one day about issue x and then two weeks later we read something directly different about issue x but it's coming from the scientific community. that is being more than willing to admit you're wrong. it's confusing for us who have to read the research when it

changes every couple days. >> no, i understand that. and i understand that dealing with lots of change is difficult. i think scientists at least i -- my argument is that the best scientists like change. they like new things. and i think that's a very important quality in the scientists that they do enjoy the new. and if they don't, i'm not sure that they're well suited for doing scientific research. sos that's just a part of scientific research which is i think at the heart of it is discovery. so i understand that. and then when you start to talk about clinical medicine though and issues for people who are not in the medical field, i think what you have to do is you have to find a good prime aury care doctor. you have to find a doctor who is going to be your quarterback, who is going to navigate, who runs your health team and navigate for you because it's too technical. you can't do it.

i would say that in the financial world a guy like me if i'm sitting around picking stocks, something is wrong. this is a, not a good use of my time. but, b, i don't know enough about it to be intelligent. so i have to get somebody to help me. we live if a very specialized world now. >> yeah. speaking of the specialized world, this is a big question i apologize for in advance. i'm curious as to your take that you are a nobel laureate. what is your sense of how cutting edge we are being as americans, how we are leading or not leading across the board with scientific discoveries on all sorts of matters? are you pleased with the progress of the things that we are discovering as american scientists? >> i think the united states is doing great science. but i think that the funding mechanisms are really

antiquated, particularly the federal funding mechanisms. and we need to revise, overhaul, whatever you want to call it, the great funding mechanisms that in the past served science well. now -- >> what's wrong with them? >> first of all, there's not enough funding for all the scientists now. do we have too many scientists? that's an important national debate. secondly, i would argue that we have these horrible diseases. we've made a lot of progress at getting at them and beginning to alleviate them. there is so much more to do that i would argue that we need to put more of our resources into, particularly biomedical science. and in the physical sciences. because all of these interact. the huge advances in computation power, radically changed the biological sciences. both in imaging, of the body, of the head, of the data

collection, data analysis. so there is this incredible interplay between the physical and biological sciences. we need to support this better. because we -- there are so many diseases that afflict human beings and make their lives horrible and make their family's lives horrible much we need to change this. it's within our power to do so as human beings. >> let me close on this question. i will never in my life have this experience. you've had it. we'll see what comes in the month and years to come. but if something that you discovered which you won a nobel prize for, if that in fact does turn out to be critical to curing and treating these deceases like alzheimer's and parkinson's, how do you emotionally, psychologically, spiritually process how your gift was used during your lifetime? >> wow. that's a tough question.

i think, you know, i went into medicine because i was interested in helping people. i thought this was a socially wonderful thing to be able to do. i got excite about research. i couldn't believe it when i learned that you actually could get paid to solve puzzles as a research scientists. and i spent my whole life doing this. and i'm reasonably good at it. and i guess i'll feel this is great. it's just another piece along the way of being, having this privilege to try to understand these horrible afflictions of people. so i'm not sure i'll jump up and cheer. i'll be very happy. but i've been really blessed, if you want to use that word. that's not a good word for scientists to use. privileged is robbprobably a be one and being able to do what we do. >> well, we say both and, not either/or. we'll take both. >> okay. >> the book is called "madness

and memory." it wave in a good bit of the story of the work that dr. prusiner is doing which you may find of interest. p these preons turn out to be as hopeful as we expect them to be, this is something we'll all celebrate about. you may not be jumping up and down, but anybody that has somebody in their family are parkinson's alzheimer's, they will. thank you for coming on. coming up, a conversation with actor terry crews. stay with us. terry crews is starring in "brooklyn 99" on fox and has five movies out this year including the upcoming "the expendables 3" in which he co-stars with sylvester stallone, harrison ford, mel

gibson and others. he also found time to write a book. it titled "manhood: how to be a better man or just live th one." he was name the new host of "who wants to be a millionaire." i ain't mad at you, terry crews. you're working like a jamaican, man. >> i want to be a millionaire! you know, that's the show. >> good lord. >> congratulations. >> thank you so much. >> why would you want to host the show like millionaire? >> you know, i thrive off of live energy. and another thing is, you know, they came to me, when they came to me because cedric wasn't going o come back. i just said, first of all, i look at day time tv and a lot of it is really bad. there's a lot of you are father. no. all this. and drama and people hitting and biting. i said, wait, i get a chance on day time tv to give away money during hard times and really enjoy and speak into people's lives and let them play the game

with me and the whole thing and get that live energy that i always wanted. i just finished 75 episodes. i'm not playing. >> you come from a sports background. how important is it for you in the decisions that you make for people to see you in the full complexity of your character interlekt included. not wrong with playing the white chicks and funny stuff. i love that. and none of us should be boxed in. i remind people all the time, marvin guy sang let's get it on but he also sang what's going on? we're complex individuals. does that ever factor into the decisions you make? i ask that because millionaire is, obviously the higher you climb, that is a really smart show. >> yes. now for me, you know, every label that someone tries to put on you is a stamp so that they can put you in a box and put you over here. well, i have totally decided you will never be able to label me.

you will never be able to define me. every individual on this earth is way too complex to put whatever box it is. it is funny. we as afcan-americans tend to do that to ourselves. a lot of times, i've had people say and black people don't do that. i jumped off a cliff in rio. people are like, man, people do not do that. i said well, i did it. so what does that mean? >> i said, it's weird. i'm african-american by my culture. not by my color. so what happens is when you're talking about culture, culture should always be celebrated. african-american culture is the most beautiful, most celebratory thing you should always love it. but because i'm dark skinned, a lot of times people say well you should be here. and i decided i was going to leave the race, when i say race, what i'm talking about is when they determine you are black,

what happens is you become there's white, there's yellow, there's red, there's brown, and there's black. now who is always on the top of that? white. that's the race. because the race is always about determining who is first. the race is literally a sport. it's like the race is white people finish first, black people always finish last. and what happens is you grow up with that. have you ever seen when they were interviewing kids and they always pick up the black one and it's bad. that's really what this race thing is about. i decided i'm going to step out of that. if you cheer when o.j. simpson got off, or if you cheereded when zimmerman got off, you're part of the race. you have decided i am in the race. if you step back from the race, you just see teenager with a bullet in his chest. you see a mom who got her throat slashed. now when you separate from that, you see things as they are. >> you're talking about

humanity. zbh i'm talking about humanity. now by stepping back, i had to step out of the athlete tab. because african-american athlete has a tag. i said i don't have to live by those definitions. you decide, i'm african-american, yes. love it. but you can't define me that way. so i started to take on things that people said you can't do. and every challenge i started to find out i was actually doing this stuff. not only doing it, but i was excelling at it. i realized there is really no obstacle. i started to run into problems instead of running away from them. you know what i mean? by running into things, things just started to disappear. obstacles starteded to go away. let me tell you, i -- and my thing is always to lead other athletes, lead other african-american athletes out of that soim old problem we grew up with in regards to, you know,

being defined by our sport, defined by that. and our intelligence being defined by, you know, what everybody thinks we should be. >> but not unlike most of us, you grew up in some serious dysfunction. i wrote a book p years ago and talked about my relationship with my father which now is a boughtful thing. love him. hardest working man i've ever known. i don't let anybody put daylight between me and my father now because the truth i told about what happened in the book. nobody is going to define my relationship with my father now. but there was a truth that had to be told about our relationship was when i was 12 or 13. you do the same thing in your book. i thought my father, i had some tough time until i read your book. i saw the story. i don't want to give the book away. but there's a moment in the book where i can't believe, i mean you and your brother got into a physical altercation with your dad and because your dad had put hands on your momma, you and your brother beat your dad to a

pulp. >> beat him down. >> beat him down. your daddy! you can't beat your daddy, man. >> you ain't supposed to. >> yeah. >> and we did. let me tell you, when i was doing it, i thought i would feel -- because you have to understand. that was the earliest memory in my household was my father putting hands on my mother. my mother going down in tears. i was -- i literally was 5 years old and i was like, man, i have to do something. and you don't understand the helplessness that you feel. you grow up with. i mean it's one of them things i had all kinds of problems. i peed in the bed until i was 14. it's one of the things because you don't understand what is happening. you can't control your situation. there is a lock of control creates all kind of other problems. so but once i got to be an adult, and not only an adult, a big adult, a strong adult, and he did it one more time, i called my brother. i said oh, it's on.

now i'm going to get all this that's been in me for years and we're going to do it. let me tell you something, i felt nothing afterwards. there was not one bit of redemption. there was not one bit of that's what he gets. i felt empty. i was in tears. because you ain't supposed to do that. >> he is begging for mercy. >> he's begging for mercy. >> you're dad is in the corner begging you to stop. >> and it made no sense. and i realized einstein said you can never solve a problem at the level of thinking in which it was created. so his violence cannot be met with that same kind of violence. it just what happens is it goes back and forth. you got him back. i got you back. whatever. what happens is nothing. what i really had to do was forgive and step above this whole thing. and that doesn't mean forget. that doesn't mean -- that doesn't mean excuse.

it doesn't mean just let things go. but it does mean not allowing anything he did to have any effect on my future. >> before you and your father had this altercation when you were a kid, tell me quickly, i love the story, maybe love is the wrong word. but i was blown away by the story, you wanteded to be a super hero and you had your super hero moment. >> there it is. >> i see it now. >> there it is right there. >> do you know how many time we've hung out over the years. i never noticed it. >> i was 2, 3 years old and i put an extension cord in my mouth. we lived if a little hood apartment. the electricity and things plugged in and extension cords and the whole thing. i put this thing in my mouth. and pow! it exploded. and my mother said she saw me and i was just bleeding and laying there but i never said a word. she said i just sat there and looked at her. >> your bottom lip is on the floor. >> yes.

>> your lip fell off. >> explosion, it's a piece of meat sitting there on the groupd. she screamed. she ran. took me to the hospital. the whole thing. the doctor thought she had abused me and all this stuff. they finally cleared her on that. and with that story being told, i always thought i had superpowers. that's like the origin of batma superman, the hulk, the whole thing. >> and here you are in "the expendables." >> yeah! i'm a real life super hero. i made it! it's funny because, you know, these things, you know, we all as young men, we always have that desire. we have the desire to save the damsel in distress. i had a desire to save my whole family, to save my brother and sister and save everyone in my community. and it's weird because that desire, it should be in you. >> what did nfl teach you about acting? how did the nfl help you with acting? >> because you start to realize that it's a business is a

business. and one thing you learn through sports is that it's on you. it's on you. there is no one else to blame. there is no one else to put it on. i took my career. i took a sport -- the whole sports thing and i applied it to my acting. i realized that i was the only guy with the -- who is going to improve myself. and i had to do the work. you have to do the work. you have to do the practice to the point where it gets easy. i took that and put it right into the acting world. it's really paying off. >> is your conception of manhood which is what this book is all about, the book is really about these stories that he had all true obviously, stories he lived through, stories he endured, stories he has learned from, examples in the book that have helped you become a man. i want to close by asking whether or not your definition, your understanding of manhood continues to evolve? >> all the time. there are three stages to every man.

the first stage is a fool. okay? a fool gets mad when somebody tries to help you. you know what i mean? i was in that stage. i moved my whole family in with my parents and i go buy a new car. that is a definition of a fool. i mean fool. what are you doing? man, leave me alone. i know what i'm doing. >> it was a nice car, though. >> unbelievable car. and i turn around and then you move to the next stage. then a fool, you mess your life up. you move to victim stage. victim stage is man my life is messed up. i can blame -- i'll blame my wife. i blame my parents. i blame my father. i blame being black. i blamed everybody. but then there is another phase. and this is the phase that manhood is in. when you think like a king. fool, victim, king. king, however, king is when you take full responsibility for everything in your life. there's no one to blame. you are on your own kingdom. and you say, wait a minute. all this good and bad is a

result of me. and that changed my perspective. i couldn't be a victim anymore. because there was no one else to blame but me. you can't be a fool because you got to listen. you have to hear what everyone is saying. what good advice comes out. and let me tell you, when i started thinking luke a king, manhood came. that's when i became a truman. >> i want to scratch the surface of this new book by terry crews. it is called "manhood," how to be a better man or just live with one. i read on airplanes, read at home. i read in my office and various places. i actually, like i said, i sat down and read this whole thing in one sitting. it got my attention. so thank you for writing the book and thanks for being so honest and transparent about it. >> i got to say this, man. there are people who get -- who make money making sure you don't know. there are people who get paid, making sure you don't understand. and my thing was i'm going to tell it. i want to tell everything that i know. because me and my friends, even in the boo i talk about me and my friend, we made a vow to each

other. if you learn something that i should know, tell me. and if i learn something that you should know, i will tell you. that got me here today. >> love it. love you. all right. tell everybody i said hello. >> thank you, sir. >> that's our show for tonight. thanks for watching. and as always, keep the faith. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com i'm tavis smiley. join me for a conversation next time with thomas katz and philip bailey. that's next time. we'll see you then. erertzer

krz welcome to the program. tonight a conversation with khaled mashal the political leader of hamas, a conversation in qatar. >> we do not want to launch rockets. we don't want to target people, excuse me i would like to give an example. if you look at the the palestinians martyrs, most of them are civilians, however on the other side they are militantsing they are combatants. this is emblematic of the morality of the resistance and the immorality of the israeli aggression krz we invited prime minister netanyahu to come on the show krol. tonight for the hour khaled mashal. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following