captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> ifill: we discuss immigration, death penalty reforms, voting rights, and more, in an exclusive interview with attorney general eric holder. good evening, i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. also ahead this thursday, the u.n.'s top human rights chief accuses both israel and hamas of war crimes. >> ifill: plus, a colorado town resurrects its bluegrass festival after devastating floods threatened its very existence. >> there was a lot of doubt that the festival was going to happen at all. it was a really important here

to come back and do something. >> to be part of this incredible community that has against all odds has found a way to reclaim this land and turn it into the festival site that it once was. >> ifill: those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved, staying engaged. they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives.

>> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. set to start friday. all parties have agreed to it. this comes after 23 days of fighting. the death toll on each side now surpassing the last gaza conflict five years ago. 1,422 p

1,422 palestinians and 59 israelis, most of them soldiers, have been killed in this month's fighting. we look at the events of the day. plumes of smoke mingled with sunrise above gaza city. mosques were once again a target. remnants of one stood amid its own rubble following an israeli airstrike. elsewhere, firefighters doused flames after another strike reduced homes to a debris-filled crater. and in northern gaza, 30 people, mostly children, were evacuated from a united nations school after israeli tank shells landed nearby. this, a day after 19 people died when israeli shells struck a similar school sheltering more than 3 thousand palestinian refugees. but warning sirens also blared

in israel. the israeli military said more than 60 rockets were fired at israel from within gaza today, only moderate injuries were reported. three-and-a-half weeks into this latest israel-gaza war, the u.n. human rights commissioner navi pillay accused both israel and hamas of committing war crimes, but reserved her harshest words for israel. >> the shelling of houses directly means a violation of israel's obligation to protect the right to housing, right to food, right to clean water of gazans, even as, under its obligation as an occupying force. and therefore i would say that they appear to be defying, deliberate defiance of obligations that international law imposes on israel. >> woodruff: meanwhile in washington, the white house press secretary, while defending

israel, said it needs to do more to protect civilians. >> but the shelling of a u.n. facility that is housing innocent civilians who are fleeing violence is totally unacceptable. and totally indefensible. >> woodruff: but israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu brushed aside such comments after a security cabinet meeting. >> ( translated ): so far we neutralized scores of terror tunnels and we are determined to complete this mission with or without a cease-fire. therefore, i won't agree to any proposal that will not enable the israeli military to finish this important task. >> woodruff: to supplement the ongoing campaign, the israeli military today called up another 16,000 reservist forces. it also released two videos. the first, it claimed showed militant rockets being launched from populated areas of gaza towards israel. the other, footage of a tunnel

entrance and weapons purportedly discovered in a gaza strip mosque by israeli defense forces. narration claims i.d.f. personnel fought with five militants at the site. >> ifill: a team of investigators finally reached malaysian airlines crash site today. fighting was ceased for a day to they could get through. the experts were escorted by armed troops and armored vehicles. one of their tasks is to bring back victims remains and personal belongings. dozens of bodies have yet to be retrieved. the head of the european monitoring mission voiced hope his team could return regularly. >> we succeeded today getting dna samples from 25 victims. we now have the personal belongings of 27 victims in our position. the belongings and the dna samples were in the mortuary in donetsk and have been handed

over to the dutch and australian experts. >> ifill: all 298 passengers and crew members aboard the flight were killed when a missile brought the plane down two weeks ago. >> woodruff: 729 people in west africa have now died from the worst ebola outbreak on record. the world health organization estimates 57 of those deaths happened over a three-day time period last week. u.s. health officials warned americans not to travel to guinea, liberia and sierra leone. and travelers around the globe were under new scrutiny. in china, airports began screening passengers body temperatures using thermal scanners. >> ifill: stocks plunged on wall street today, and erasing nearly all of this month's gains. it was largely attributed to jitters over europe's economic woes and a jump in u.s. labor costs. the dow jones industrial average posted its first monthly decline since january plummeting 317 points to close at 16,563; the

nasdaq fell 93 points to close at 4,369; the s&p 500 loston 39 points to close at 1930, posting its worst day since april. >> woodruff: argentina slid into its second debt default in 13 years today. the country failed to reach a deal with bondholders in down to the wire emergency meetings last night in new york. the hedge funds want full payment plus interest to the tune of a billion-and-a-half dollars. that left the future of the south american nation's economy in question. it is already in a recession, has a shortage of dollars and has one of the highest inflation rates in the world. >> ifill: the director of the c.i.a. has apologized to senate leaders for how agency employees searched their office computers earlier in the year. an internal c.i.a. investigation found officers improperly accessed a classified computer network as they prepared a report on the c.i.a.'s interrogation program. agency director john brennan said he's convened an accountability board to look

into the matter. >> woodruff: congress raced towards a shifting finish line it its effort to get out of town for an august recess. the house rejected the senate's $8.1 billion measure to fund transportation projects through the end of the year. instead, representatives sent their own $10.9 billion plan back to the senate. and an immigration bill in the house faltered, forcing republicans to regroup and call congressmen back to work tomorrow. we'll have much more on how the border funding bill unraveled in the program. >> ifill: the wisconsin supreme court upheld two controversial state laws today. it ruled a republican passed law requiring photo identification at the polls is legal, even though that law is currently blocked in federal court. and it upheld the 2011 law that effectively ended collective bargaining for public workers. that law led to a recall election for republican governor scott walker and sparked massive protests.

>> woodruff: still to come on the newshour. attorney general eric holder on immigration, the death penalty and voter i.d. laws. a divided congress struggles to address the border crisis. colleges and universities push back on legislation to combat sexual assualts on campus. are israel and hamas abiding by the laws of war? and a colorado town picks itself up after a flood, by playing bluegrass. >> ifill: from voting rights to border control to the death penalty. the department of justice holds the reins on any number of critical issues central to the national debate. i sat down with attorney general eric holder the justice department today to talk about some of them. thank you for joining us, mr. attorney general. as the nation's chief law enforcement officer, you watched

yesterday as the house voted to give the speaker the right to sue the president. what were you thinking when you saw that happen? >> well, i thought i was witnessing something that was more political than legal. there's not much to that lawsuit. this is something that i would be surprised if a court finds that there is standing, and i certainly don't expect that, at the end of the day, the plaintiffs will win that case, and i think it's very kind of unfortunate. the president has indicated a willingness to work with congress, but he's also indicated congress will not act and they've not acted at historic levels, and he has to do the work of the american people, and, so, he's done things that are necessary, that are legal, and the american people want to see done. >> woodruff: at the same time as the house has been chastising the president for overreaching, today they're having some trouble coming up with, as we speak, a vote on the border

crisis, on the migrant issues. the question i guess i have for you is the speaker said there's no more the president can do. is there more the president can do? >> well, there's more the president can do but there's nothing we can do in the executive branch but there's a fundamental lead for us to have the funds to do these kinds of things. i want to surge immigration judges to the border, have more immigration judges at the border to process these kinds of cases but that requires money. we estimated it would take $3.7 billion, the senate seemed to be moving around the $3 billion mark. the house was having problems coming up with $600 million. these things cost money and at some point we have to make decisions abwhat's in our national interest. the president has made the determination, has been dealing with the situation on the bored, it is of national consequence and, therefore, should involve a national response and that involves spending money.

>> woodruff: this has been a problem since at least 2006 when attorney general gonzalez was here. why has it taken so long? always been money? >> it's not always that. we seed nor money to hire more judges and we have increased the number of judges that we have, but the backlog that we have is unacceptably high. we need more resources. we need to be able to train more judges, so that's something we're working on, but we need the support of congress to get to the place we ultimately want to be. >> woodruff: assuming congress doesn't give you the money you asked for, how would you prioritize the needs? is it border security, immigration judges you asked for or something else, something to deal with the needs of all these children who are crossing the rio grande coming from honduras, guatemala, el salvador? >> well, if we don't get the congressional support needed, we'll do the best we can, we'll scramble and get immigration judges there in some form or

fashion. we'll probably have to use technology, television to have judges in remote locations. we'll certainly make sure border security is assured and make sure also that whoever is crossing the border is treated in a fair and humanitarian way. we'll do that with the resources that we have, but the reality is that we can certainly do a much better job and do the job the american people expect if we had the resources that we have requested. >> woodruff: yesterday, you expressed your intent to speak on behalf of plaintiffs in the wisconsin voter i.d. case and in ohio as well. today the wisconsin supreme court upheld that law and said it is constitutional. what role can or should the federal government have of that at this point? >> well, the federal government has a unique role in making sure that every citizen has the right to exercise that most fundamental of american rights, the right to vote. the '65 voting rights act is something we all hold dear,

gutted by the shell by county decision but left certain parts of the voting rights in place. we used section 2 where a federal judge made the claims were valid and could not find an instance where the state could show an instance of border fraud which was kind of the underpinnings of the lawsuit, of the defense to the lawsuit in wisconsin. so we're going to use section 2 as we have in other states, in north carolina, in texas, we'll use it in wisconsin, we'll support the suits in wisconsin and ohio as well. >> woodruff: so this is going beyond filing court briefs? >> well, at this point, i guess with regard to what we've done in wisconsin and ohio, we're just filing briefs. cases have already been filed but we are using section 2 in other places in north carolina and texas. those cases have been filed and are to be adjudicated.

>> woodruff: let me ask you about something else. so much happening this week, but in this case, you have been tasked with coming up with the death penalty review. we've watched the series of botched executions across the country because of use of a cocktail of drugs and there's a lot of debate about why. but the question is whether the federal government has the role to intervene in what basically is a state role. >> well, we are certainly looking at our own protocol. there's not been a federal execution in a while, there's been a moratorium. and we're looking at the protocol, the cocktail, the drugs to be used if there were a federal execution. but i'm greatly troubled by what happened in oklahoma and in arizona, and there may not be a legal requirement for transparency and talking about, describing the drugs that are used, but you sometimes have to

go beyond that which is legally required to do something that is right and for the state to exercise that greatest of all powers, to end a human life, it seems to me just on a personal level that transparency would be a good thing and to share information about what chemicals are used, what drugs are being used and it would seem to me that would be a better way to do this. >> woodruff: why isn't there a way of enforcing or standardizing it? >> i'm not saying there isn't. i'm saying regardless of whether there is or is not -- i take note of the fact justice kennedy made the terms the execution could proceed in spite of the fact a request was made for information about the drugs that were being used. so in spite of, you know, whether i agree or disagree with judge kennedy and wherever the courts may end up, there is an obligation, it seems to me, on the part of the executive branch

charged with that responsibility to be forthcoming about the mechanism, the means by which this most serious of executive branch actions can be carried out. >> woodruff: where does the death penalty review you've undertaken stand now? >> it's underway. we have people from the civil rights division, criminal division, various other components within the department looking at our protocol and taking into account what we have seen happen in the states recently as we try to work our way through how the federal government is going to impose the death penalty. >> woodruff: justice department has had its plugs along the way including friending work at the f.b.i. which has led to dubious outcomes for people who are sentenced. how do you hold states accountable when the federal got has had its own problem being held accountable? >> we certainly admit when we have made mistakes and when that

was ide i have had as an issue, the problem with the f.b.i. lab, what i ordered was a review done to make sure that the mistakes could be corrected and to identify all people who had been affected by those mistakes, make sure that going forward we don't make those kinds of mistakes again. the federal government has made mistakes, but where we find them we admit and correct them and i think set an example for the states. they should make the same kind of inquiry where they have been made mistakes and correct them as well and we have supervisory qualifications looking into what the states are doing and to the extend we find states making mistakes we'll point them out and try to work through those things in a ronald tear way to the extent we can and if we can't we use the power we have to bring lawsuits. >> woodruff: should citizens that support the death penalty worry you're using questions about administration of drugs and lethal injections as a way

of undercutting the entire approach, the whole idea of the death penalty? >> no, we are doing what the president has asked us to do and it is a limited review of the death penalty and how it is imposed, when it is imposed. it is the law of the land. it is the most serious thing that i do as attorney general. i have to make determinations about when we will seek the death penalty and i have done that as attorney general even though i am personally opposed to the death penalty as attorney general, i have to enforce federal law. >> woodff: attorney generic eric, thank yo -- attorney gene, thank you so much for your time. >> ifill: my conversation with the attorney general also previews a speech he plans to give tomorrow in philadelphia about sentencing reform. you can find that portion of the interview online. >> woodruff: as we heard, it was

a confusing day on capitol hill with deep divisions over immigration and what can be done to address a surge of migrant children flooding across the border. federal agencies handling the crisis say they will run out of money in mid-august if nothing is done. and lawmakers are about to leave town for a five week recess. newshour capitol hill producer quinn bowman reports on today's politcal see-saw. >> all time for debate has expired. >> reporter: the first sign of trouble came mid-day, when republican leaders abruptly called off a vote on their border bill. but less than two hours later, house majority whip kevin mccarthy informed lawmakers there still could be a vote which led to this exchange with minority whip steny hoyer. >> i want to advise all members that additional votes are possible today. >> we're going to have to call some members back. they already left under the representation that this was the

last vote of the day. i would imagine that you have some members that are in that category themselves. >> i think it is possible to advise all members that it is possible to have votes later today. i'm hopeful that by late this afternoon we'll be able to notify the time of it. ( boos ) >> reporter: in a statement, g.o.p. leaders said they will continue to work on solutions to the border crisis. but they added there are numerous steps the president can and should be taking right now, without the need for congressional action, to secure our borders and ensure these children are returned swiftly and safely to their countries. with near unanimous democratic opposition, republican leaders needed the support of the vast majority of their members, but many voiced skepticism of the proposal in advance of the vote. representative mo brooks of alabama: >> we can easily solve this problem by spending as little as $30 million a year with respect to the illegal alien children because we know, that is how much it costs to fly every illegal alien child back to their home country and reunite them with their families.

>> reporter: the measure offered by g.o.p. leaders would have cost $659 million dollars over the next two months. that total is far less than the $1.5 billion house republicans initially sought. of that, some $400 million would have gone to the department of homeland security to boost border patrol operations. another $197 million had been targeted for the department of health and human services, the agency tasked with caring for the children. the house plan also sought to change a 2008 anti-trafficking law signed by president george w. bush, it required that unaccompanied children from countries other than mexico and canada receive a hearing before deportation. the top democrat in the house, nancy pelosi of california, called the new proposal mean- spirited. >> let's give the children a fair shot. let's do better than this. it is not a statement of values. it is a statement of meanness. >> reporter: in order to entice some conservative lawmakers to support the spending plan, g.o.p. leaders also proposed a

vote to defund president obama's deferred action program. that policy, implemented by the president in 2012, protects undocumented immigrants from deportation if they were brought to the u.s. as children. speaker boehner said his members wanted to make clear to the president they would not accept any more unilateral steps. >> when the president takes these actions he will be sealing deal on legacy of lawlessness. >> reporter: in the end, that was not enough to sway wary conservatives. on the other side of the capitol, meanwhile, senators continued debate on a $2.7 billion plan put forward by democrats. $1 billion less than the president's request. that proposal includes spending for additional detention facilities and more immigration judges to process migrants. unlike the house bill, the senate version does not tweak the 2008 trafficking law.

but with little sign of an agreement, both sides today traded blame. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell called on the president to step up and lead. >> congress can't do it without your leadership or your engagement. it's impossible to do this without you. so pick up that phone you keep telling us about. >> reporter: democrat patrick leahy of vermont accused republicans of standing in the way of progress. >> it is so much easier not to do anything. just let it sit there and say, "oh, it must be president obama's fault." "oh, it must be the senate's fault." "oh, it must be somebody else's fault." "oh, maybe it's the faulof these six and seven-year-old children for trying to escape being killed or molested." >> reporter: with sharp divisions on both sides of the capitol, lawmakers appeared set to leave for a five-week recess with no resolution to the border crisis. >> woodruff: for more on today's events, the washington post's ed o'keefe joins us from capitol hill. ed, what a scene.

the house republican leadership said they wanted a bill to deal with the border, but they couldn't get it. what happened? >> well, they pulled that bill very quickly, unexpectedly earlier this afternoon, surprising everyone, including several members, as you heard, who had already headed for the airports. but after a revolt of a handful of republicans in, let's say, more purple districts, places like california, new york, pennsylvania, areas with growing latino populations, also, they confronted kevin mccarthy and the speaker on the floor of the house and said, no, we can't leave washington without having voted or at least trying to vote on something so they were dragged into the basement of the capitol for an emergency meeting and emerged an hour later saying they will stay overnight in washington, have another meeting tomorrow and probably vote on something at some point friday. in essence, there was a deadline, a due date, the house didn't meet it so the teacher is keeping them overnight and they'll have to do it tomorrow.

>> woodruff: why is this important for the republican house leadership? >> one, for the broader political argument of responding to president obama who asked for the money and who republicans say has created this crisis by not doing certain things. also, you run the risk of having the president go out and doing other executive actions over the course of the august recess and republicans would turn around and say, well, here he goes again doing things on his own without talking to congress and the white house in this case could turn around and say, well, you had an opportunity to do so and you didn't and that's a valid argument. and there are dozens of republicans in swing districts, like colorado, texas, florida, new york, that if they go home not voting for something could now face more perilous reelection fights in december. i talked to a loyal republican from texas who represents a districts with a growing

hispanic population and he says if i go back without having done something, without having voted on something related to this issue, he said, "i'll have some explaining to do." >> woodruff: but you also have conservative republicans who are saying absolutely, i don't want to give the president the ability to expand this, if you will, amnesty program for the children, the so-called dreamers, expanding it to the other children coming across. >> that's right, ached we've seen all sorts of division in the republican ranks over the years whether fiscal or immigration policy and this is part of the reason why we have not yet seen this republican-led house vote on significant immigration legislation because the differences are just so big they haven't been le to bridge a divide. so sometime tonight overnight republican leaders are supposed to meet with that group of republicans to say, no, unless you're shutting down the deferred action program for the

immigrants president obama put in action, or unless you're securing some parts of the border they can't vote for it. other republicans who feel doing that kind of thing might be a bridge too far. it's a new test with the new leadership. kevin mccarthy has risen to the majority leader position and puts him in a tricky position starting his new job. >> woodruff: looks like a vote tomorrow morning? >> yes, the latest guidance. the senate will finish up tonight and we'll see if they can ged it done. >> woodruff: ed o'keefe, "washington post," thank you. >> take tear, judy. >> ifill: one issue that did garner bi-partisan support this week on capitol hill was a proposal to reduce the number of sexual assaults on college campuses. last night we heard from two

senators who sponsored the bill. but some in the world of higher education are pushing back. hari sreenivasan explores some of that criticism. >> reporter: the legislation would create steeper penalties for schools that fail to investigate reports of assault. it also features provisions to change the culture on some campuses, including requiring colleges and universities to designate confidential advisors who would provide support and information to victims. that includes guidance on how to report the crime to local law enforcement universities would also have to conduct annual surveys about student experiences with sexual assault and publish those results online. anne neal is the president of the american council of trustees and alumni. because you don't think this legislation will help solve what we know is a serious problem. >> that's right. it is a serious problem. we should all be deeply concerned about sexual assault but the question really is where should the onus be to deal with this problem? this legislation and other

actions coming out of the department of education and the vice president's office would put it on colleges and universities. quite frankly, we have the criminal justice system and police departments and it's our contention that's where the onus should lie. we have this criminal justice system and rather than trying to make our colleges and universities an extension of law enforcement, let's put the responsibility where it should be in the police room and the court. >> sreenivasan: you said this duplicates reporting, that there are already laws on the books that say the universities have to report the crimes. but as senator claire mccaskill last night pointed out, there seems to be a significant underreporting problem. >> the more startling statistic is 40% of the college campuses in the country have not investigated a single case to have sexual assault in five years and we know this is a silent epidemic on college campuses. >> sreenivasan: response to that?

>> again, we want transparency and want universities to report what's happening but our experience is if you allow shadow justice systems on campus and the allow the information to stay on the campus rather than going to enforcement authorities that you're more likely to have the university hiding what's happening than being forthright about it. >> sreenivasan: what is the shadow system, for folks who haven't been paying attention? >> well, again, this you see we have a system which has investigators trained on college campuses, bureaucracies envisioned by this legislation that would require folks on university campuses essentially to be investigators, jurors, executioners. they tier ones who are going to be looking into alleged violations. we're saying colleges and universities have many things and many expertise, but engaging in law enforcement is not one of them, and that's why it's so important that we insist that

the alleged victims report their problems to law enforcement and that the university make it very clear that that is where the onus lies. >> so are you concerned as senator kelly ayotte was on the program last night that some of these universities, justice is not being served with their own infrastructures put in place. >> it's being investigated inconsistently. we also found in some instances athletic departments were investigating them. this is totally inappropriate. there needs to be the best practices, full investigation and, obviously, victims need to be supported, which is not happening. >> sreenivasan: your response? that absolutely supports the point that the colleges and universities are not equipped to do good investigations and essentially to be asked to be law enforcement officials. that's why we think the proper focus is in our police departments and our courts which

is where students should go. if they have been raped, if there has been a sexual assault, it needs to be treated as a crime. this will allows then to give colleges and universities time to do what they do well, which is not serving as law enforcement but dealing with education. i think it's important to remember that the sexual assault problem that we're seeing does not occur in a vacuum and in large part is because of a lack of academic seriousness on our college campuses, whether it's curricula or anything goes, heavy drinking, binge drinking we hear about a lot, the fact many students start school on tuesdays and ends thursdays, is it any wonder that we have a drinking problem and the sexual assault that comes with it? it's time our academic administrators start focusing on the educational problems and not be forced into this difficult position for which they're not equipped to be law enforcement

officials on their campuses. >> sreenivasan: how much of the concern is cost driven in terms of how much it will cost to roll out the survey every year or train the confidential advisors? >> very good question and i think this is a serious, serious concern for colleges and universities p. we know president obama has regularly raised concern about the rising cost of colleges and universities and, so, i think we have to ask ourselves what are things colleges and universities are equipped and prepared to do and therefore can bear those costs and what would it be better for other institutions and other organizations to do? and i think this is exactly one of those. let's put colleges and universities back focusing on education rather than having to spend vast resources which are quite limited, as we all know, on training of the various bureaucrats that will be dealing with students, training trauma advisors and title 9 coordinators and the list of various bureaucrats we are going

to be adding the to our college campus goes on and on at a time when we're already seeing administrative costs skyrocket. >> sreenivasan: anne neal, president of the council of trustees and alumni, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: we return now to the ongoing battle between hamas and israel. and questions being raised about whether either side is violating the laws of war. joining us are retired lieutenant colonel gary solis. he had a 26 year career in the marine corps, served two tours in vietnam and became a military lawyer and judge. he's now on the faculty at both george washington and georgetown university law schools. and retired lieutenant colonel geoffrey corn. he had a 22 year career in the army where he served as a lawyer. he's now a professor at south texas college of law in houston.

we welcome you both to the "newshour". can you first, col. corn, we want to talk about both sides in the conflict. let's start with hamas. what is it you believe hamas is doing that violates international law? >> well, i think the two most obvious examples are the deliberate attack on civilian population centers with apparently no effort to target specific military targets in israel, just firing missiles in the direction of israeli population centers is a clear violation of the law and the other is locating the vital military assets within the midst of the civilian population in an apparent attempt to make it more difficult for the israeli defense forces to target those assets which is also a core violation of the law. >> woodruff: and what international law are you referring to? >> well, the international law that i'm referring to and i'm sure my friend gary will refer

to we call the law of war or is often called international humanitarian law and it's one of the oldest bodies of international law. many of these rules are codified in treaties that are finding on -- binding on nations throughout the world, including israelis, and even rules not applicable to treaty law apply to all parties of a conflict as a matter of what we call customary internation law, and there is almost universal agreement these rules apply to all sides of a conflict. israeli and hamas collectively. >> woodruff: you agree these are laws this discussion is based on? >> yes, entirely. >> woodruff: what about his points? he made two points, that they hamas is deliberately firing into civilian areas and, two, they are commingling military

assets, weapons, rocket launchers wh their own civilians. >> i think geoff is entirely correct and we see the same thing going on in israel. >> woodruff: but the two of you are in agreement on what hamas is doing? >> we are. i think hamas is in violation of law of conflict, international humanitarian law for reasons geoff mentioned. >> woodruff: no ifs, ands or buts. >> no i. let me turn to how you view israel, col. corn, because you believe israel is also violating international law? >> yes, i'm afraid. so i think israel is violating the core principals of the law of armed conflict of distinction and proportionality. that is, they're not distinguishing between military objectives and civilian objects and civilians themselves. and in regard to popro-russian that -- >> woodruff: back up. can you expand on what you mean by that?

>> distinction? yes. the law of armed conflict says that parties to a conflict, be it an interstate on flood victir non-interstate conflict, a state on one side and armed opposition group on the other, in such conflicts the parties are bound to target only combatants and not target civilians purposely or civilian objects either one. to do so is a violation of distinction, perhaps the principal core concept in if law of war and israel is not doing that. >> woodruff: you're saying they're not making the distinction and should be. col. corn, what about that point that israel is doing? >> i would have to respectfully disagree with my friend gary. i think, first off, we don't have enough information to conclusively to establish that israel is violating even the

distinction of proportionality. both of these principles are applied in a fact and situation-specific context. i think there have been incidents that raise concern that there may be violations but we have to know more details about why targets were attacked, we have to have more details about what was in proximity of those targets, did hamas have military assets embedded in civilian areas and maybe even the possibility that there were mistakes made around and off course or that a soldier or pilot simply made an error. what i would say is i think we see an overall effort on the part of the i.d.f. to apply the law in good faith. they've issued more warnings than i can think of any professional military organization issuing in an urban attack, to my knowledge. they embed military lawyers to

advise commanders on their obligations at every command. so we have to be cautious about reaching that conclusion at this point. >> woodruff: he's saying, one there's not enough information and, two -- well, you heard him. i won't repeat it. >> no, i disagree with geoff. i think the facts we've seen on the ground, the statements from the u.n., the photographs we've seen are indicative of a unit, of a command that is not overly concerned with distinction, and i think the israelis have the ability to be much more discerning in their targeting and they are not, in my opinion. >> woodruff: why do you think they have the ability to be more discerning? >> because their weaponry is nor sophisticated and advanced. they have drones and helicopters in the air. they know where they are firing their weapons and artillery is not a pinpoint system but it has the ability to hone in on specific targets, which ability is not being exercised fully.

>> woodruff: col. corn, what about that? >> well, first off, i think if the facts play out and establish that, there needs to be an investigation of individuals who violate these rules and they should be held accountable by israelis themselves. but i would note this is the most difficult type of combat any military can engage in. every military commander is trained from inception to avoid close combat in an urban environment at all costs. the fact that the israelis have put ground troops into this environment i think indicates how serious they see this strategic objective, but it also means that this is an incredibly complex and difficult tactical environment, and you cannot just look only at the effects of combat because that can provide a distorting effect on the analysis. you have to look at the entire situation to decide whether or not there was a violation. >> woodruff: you want to respond quickly? and then i have a final

question. >> i simply disagree with geoff. i believe there is sufficient evidence of an awarenis of proportionality and disregard of the israelis and is evidenced by the facts on the ground. >> woodruff: when a conflict is underway as has been there for more than 20 days, how much does it matter whether international laws have been violated? is one side or the other going to be held accountable, do you believe? >> i believe they will not, at the end of the day, although the violations, in my opinion, are clear, and that's because the u.n. security council will have a member to exercise a veto should israel be brought before them and i don't believe the i.j. nor the i.c.c. will take up the case, the international criminal court. >> woodruff: col. corn, should one side or both sides be held accountable? >> first off, i think it's clear international law matters.

that's why we're talking about this on this venue, that's why the international community is so concerned about what's happening because they're focused on the law and the expectations of compliance with the law. i agree with gary that it's unlikely that there be an international criminal accountability for these actions, but i don't think that means there won't be accountability. i tend to believe that if the israelis conclude, after the conflict, after they've reviewed everything, that some of their commanders acted improperly, that they will take action against them, and they've done that in the past. i'm not sure hamas will be subjected to any responsibility. >> woodruff: col. corn and gary solis, we thank you both. >> thank you. >> ifill: finally tonight, a story of a flood, fiddles and a town's survival. jeffrey brown traveled to colorado for our story. ♪

>> brown: the song is called "little rain" but it's about a big rain and it's aftermath, the flooding of a town in colorado in the foothills of the rockies last september. >> we're trying to address what happens and also represent, you know, our strengths and even the strength of spirit and our joy that we still have in this town but still express the gravity of what happens. >> brown: what happened is something no one here had ever seen. the river jumping its banks. video shot by local residents captured the scene as the river divided lyons into a series of islands cutting off this small town of 2,000 from the world for three days, one person died, 200 houses damaged.

musician david tiller talked to the "newshour" just after he was evacuated. >> seeing the faces of the houses blown on and realizing nothing of the house was salvageable. i don't even know how to describe it. >> brown: in all, 20% of lyon's housing stock was lost and the town suffered $50 million in damages. music has been a big part of the community. this was a flooded lake, but now is one of the nations leading and longest running bluegrass festivals. the rocky grass festival is an annual celebration of bluegrass attracting some 5,000 people and major figures from this musical world for 42 years. festival director craig ferguson lives on the ground, and last september as th the evacuation order came, he left in a hurry

in the middle of the night. when he returned, he found his land, his business, that is, and his house under four feet of water. much of it later turned to mutt filled with de-- mud filled with debris that had been carried down the river. >> we took over 1,000 dump trucks of gravel, silt and sand out of here. over 1,000. that took us -- they were going around the clock for two months. we had four backhoes and two excavators out theory for six months. >> brown: ferguson was determined the show would go on. rocky grass is about the music, of course, but also about the community of performers and audience members who come year after year. and for this small town, it's an important business engine. (applause) so getting it up and running had economic as well as psychological meaning. >> i think rocky grassing

opening is a signal to the town. i know a lot of people in town are excited that, okay, we can start having fun again. >> brown: the festivitiesryornit 10:00 a.m. with a mad dash. a friendly running of the tarps set to the very nonblue grassy william tell overture. prime real estate for the acts. alison krause and union station among them. and banjo master bela fleck and his wife abigail washburn. they provide separate ensembles but are now teamed up for the first time. like other rocky grass veterans, they were determined to return after the flood. >> there's little doubt the festival was going to happen at all. it was a real important year to come back and do something. >> to be a part of this incredible community that has, against all odds, found a way to

reclaim this land and turn it into the festival site it once was. >> brown: it all looked and anded great. ♪ but there was also this. the so-called homeless band. the pickup group of musicians and children who lost their homes in the flood and all these months later are living in temporary housing, uncertain what happens next. barry mccrumb was playing banjo and singing. he showed us where his house once stood. >> the front door was here. >> brown: he had flood insurance but that covered just half his losses. >> they only pay for the part that touched the water which is 3.5 feet in my house but the dry wall above they won't cover. >> he's frustrated waiting for permission from the town to

rebuild. most houses were built before strict government regulations were in place about building in flood plains. to qualify for federal aid, the town must enforce the rules but that red tape has led to lengthy delays issuing permits. >> it's the middle of the summer and in colorado there's only so many weeks we can build because of the harsh weather that comes in october, and i hope to have a house enclosed like this by that time. it doesn't seem like it's going to happen. >> the river's right here. it's a lot of mixed emotions. >> brown: musician danny shaffer lived with his family in a mobile home in this field that had been a trailer park. >> with the festival this weekend, it almost aeastern pierce lyons is back to normal but it's not at all. there's a lot of people misplaced and don't know if they will come back. >> brown: the flood wiped out 30 trailers in the park. today it was used a as lot for

the music festival. future is unclear but one thing it likely won't be is a trailer park. shaffer wants to stay in lyons but now must pay double rent. >> the town is made up of people of all kinds of economic situations and that's wonderful and it stands a chance to be changed severely. >> brown: that's a fear we heard from everyone here including mandolin player casey groves who'd organized a fund to help musicians after the flood. >> i think that's the biggest concern more than where the roads are going to go, who's going to get the new sidewalk, which houses stay, which go. i think the biggest concern really is that it's going to lose its charm, its small-town feel. i think a lot of the artists and musician community feel they might be priced out of living here. >> brown: a lot of people came here for that in the first place. >> yes, and now the rentals are

harder to find, and to buy a place is a struggle. >> brown: this weekend, though, the focus was on the strength and vibrancy of the community, especially through its music. rocky grass festival lives on and , so too, sang the water girls, does lyons. ♪ ♪ and you just watch us stand our ground ♪ ♪ but you can't take our town ♪ ♪ >> ifill: again, the major developments of the day. the u.s. and u.n. announced israel and hamas have agreed to a 72-hour cease-fire, starting tomorrow. a spokesperson at the u.n. explained the next steps.

>> during this period, civilians in gaza will receive urgently needed humanitarian relief and the opportunity to carry out vital functions including burying the dead, taking care of the injured and restocking food supplies. israelian and palestinian delegations will immediately go to cairo for negotiations with the government of egypt at the invitation of egypt aimed at reaching a durable cease fire. the u.s. will send a small delagation. stocks on wall street plunged in their worst one-day drop since february. nearly all of the month's gains where erased. >> woodruff: on the newshour online right now, the five-year- old cancer survivor who made headlines last year as san francisco's caped crusador is back and he's stronger than

ever. batkid will make his film debut in an upcoming documentary. we spoke to his mom, natalie scott, who gives us an update, read that on our rundown. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. >> ifill: and that's the newshour for tonight. on friday, we'll report on the california farmers digging deep to combat a historic drought by i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. we'll see you on-line and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks. for all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us.

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. this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and susie gharib. >> stocks, wall street ends the month in ugly fashion. the dow having the worst day since february, early february, down more than 300 points. >> t-mobile shares jump as the french cell phone company bids $15 billion for the u.s. business of t-mobile. >> and a surprise call. >> meet warren buffet. >> i want to give him $50,000. >> find out what happens when a 17-year-old recovering cancer patient and a wall street want to be connects with the world's most famous investor. that and more for thursday, july 31st. good evening, everyone. i'm sue ha rear