good evening from los angeles, i'm name na-- i'm tavi smiley. a prolific conversation with david ritz with this year collaboration with joe perry of aerosmith, andrew dice clay, and yours truly. he's co-author of my book "death of a king" about the last year of dr. king's life. and the writer of a new aretha franklin biography titled, "respect: aretha franklin." given the best music writing of the year award and best album notes for "queen of soul: the atlanta recordings." he's co-writer of marvin gay's hit single "sexual healing." glad you joined us. a conversation with david ritz, one of the best in the business, coming up right now. one of the best in the business,

♪ and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ david ritz has been called the ultra reader emperor of collaborations in the as-told-to world. he's written more than 53 book including biographies, novels, and what he calls collaborative

autobiographies. he's written with some of music's greatest artists including ray charles, smokey robinson, etta james, b.b. king, buddy guy. the list goes on and. on this year alone he has four collaborations out working with the now new york time best selling joe perry -- "new york times" best selling so perry and tavis smiley with his book "death of a kwing king" about the last year in the life of dr. martin luther king jr. his fifth book is a biography titled "respect: the life of aretha franklin," which earned rave reviews from the prestigious kirkus review. one of many rave reviews for all the work he's done, calling it, and i quote, "an honest and genuinely respectful portrait of a true diva by a writer who feel the power of her art." i'm tired just reading all the stuff that david ritz has been writing. i'm honored to have you on this program. >> it is my pleasure.

>> you are my dear friend. i'm happy to have you here. >> i'm happy to be here. >> yawn than, can you see the stack -- these are just the books that david has out this year. makes you feel lazy and like a slacker to all that stuff out just this year alone. i top talk about the books out this year and the life of david ritz which itself could be a book. i've asked david many times why he hasn't written about his own life. it's fascinating. i want to start our conversation with what might be for you an unlikely place. >> all right. >> i'll take a liberty to read something that you wrote not too long ago for say.org. tell me who say.org is real quick. >> it is stutterers association for young people. >> they asked you to write this, and you wrote this. >> yes. >> i want to read what david wrote for this shorthand statterers magazine. "i was born in 1943. and five or so years later i began to stutter. today i'm 70 and still

stuttering. i expect to be stuttering until the day i die. i accept that notion. i even embrace that notion. over the course of my life, i've come to see myself as a proud stutterer. i've lived a highly successful list despite or perhaps because of this challenge. i'm proud that my stutter didn't stop me from doing thing i wanted to do and saying the things i wanted to. i'm proud that my stutter forced me to find extra fortitude. i'm proud that as a stutterer i have pursued my dreams. i've met the people i've wanted to meet and written the book i've wanted to write. i'm proud that i have not allowed the pain that comes with stuttering -- and the pain has been enormous -- to hold me back. pain of there for me as a little -- pain was there for me as a little boy, pain, confusion, humiliation, and shame. i was ashamed that i couldn't speak fluently like the kids in my class. i was humiliated by teachers who when they called on me and didn't get an automatic response

presumed i didn't know the answer but i did. the answer of locked in my stutter. i was frustrated when my well-intentioned parent sent me to psychologists and speech therapists with the goal of curing my stutter, and the cure didn't work. i was confused when i asked my murth a-- my mother and father where my stutter came from and why i couldn't rid myself of it, and they had no answers. 70 years later, have you figured out why you mvmqrstuter? >> the answer is no, i have no idea. and it's -- and it's also interesting because i don't really believe i care anymore where it comes from. you know, ivanlized it over and over again -- i've analyzed it over and over again flaechg b, gift. in the end, it's a gift because i think without it i just

wouldn't be who i am. and i think it helped give me a lot of sort of drive that i wouldn't otherwise have had. so it isn't easy. i mean, and i appreciate your having -- taking the time to read what you have written. i added at the end, this is what's hard, that even though i am a person who has a degree of confidence, there are times when i speak, when i'm -- when i have to give my name to a person and i have to introduce myself, when i stutter. and i still experience a feeling of humiliation. and even shame at this point. so -- >> so why, then, after all these years still call it a gift? >> it's a gift because it

continues to kind of drive me. like when you asked me to come on the show, my first feeling is, oh, i can't do that, i'm going to stutter, i'm going to make a fool of myself. i want to talk like -- have perfect influency like richard burton or lawrence olivier, i'm going to not be able to get a word out. then that other thing kicked in that went, hey, you've got -- you know, you really do have something to say. and it's extra filled with motivation. one thing i've learned in my life is i'll take motivation wherever it comes from, wherever it comes from. >> bill withers, a friend of yours and mine, a famous stutterer. >> famous stutterer. >> the movie that came out "the king's speech."

famous stutterer. so there are others -- >> yeah -- >> when did you door you ever come across a person who was, in fact, famous, or a stutterer that, for other reasons, impressed you, that made you feel i ain't so bad if so and so stutters, as well? >> john lee hooker. >> oh, all right. he didn't stutter when he sang. >> no. >> and did it with it. >> yeah. john lee hook ear -- i did an interview with him when i was a kid. one of my earliest -- i adored him. to me, he was one of the funkiest of all the blues singers. and i went to the interview, and he couldn't get out the first word. i just thought, my moon. [ laughter ] >> we hit it off. the greatest interview i've ever had. i was so comfortable. and he was, too. >> yeah. >> he was, too. when i asked him certain things and i had -- i had a hard time

editing out the word he -- he laughed and smiled. it was great, man. >> so a great segue. did you mention -- you mentioned john lee hooker. how did you develop -- i'm going to jerusalem around and ask you for a whole show. >> let's jump. >> how did you develop such a love for blues and gospel and funk and soul and r&b? everybody knows you got fans around the world because you've written with everybody. we'll cover that in a second. before i jump into artist specifically, how did this get into your dna, man? you're a white guy, a jewish white guy. >> it was always there. when i was a kid and heard the music for the first time, my heart began to beat. and i was drawn to it. i was drawn to it when i was 8 years old, 9 years old, 10 -- 10-years-old. and it isn't any -- now again, i had the advantage of having a

father who was a jazz lover. so we had jazz in our homo. and of course i had -- i icoloized my father when i was a small boy. and i loved the kind of culture that he expressed to me. so it positively helped that he put jazz on a very, very high cultural level. but this terms of the blues and function and gospel and r&b, he wasn't there. that was something i'd always loved. >> you mentioned, and i heard the phrase -- i know this because we've been friend so long -- you idolized your father as a child. your father died not long ago. >> right. >> i think it's fair to say that not unlike a number of other great americans you had some difficulty navigating your relationship with your father.

>> yeah. he -- my father of an intellectual like a new york intellectual. and a killer intelligeect. he would argue you to death, cut you up, and -- so that for years i struggled with that. it -- and you know, i often talk to guys who had fathers who took him out to the yard and threw the football or took him fishing, my dad gave me carl ma karl ma rx to read.

and make sure your argument is strong. when it wasn't, he would kind of destroy me. i went through a lot of anger at him. when i discovered he really hadn't read every book that he told me he had read, there was that disillusionment. but at the end for the last 25 or 0 yea-- or 30 years of our lives, we were very close. >> you're such a voracious reader yourself. you read more than you write. a voracious reader. i suspect your father gets credit for putting that in you. >> no, all of it. all of it. and early on as a child i was left to honor some thought. and honored the written word. i mean, ivan turned out to be the kind of author who i think my father really wanted me to be. but that's okay. >> yeah. so i don't know where to start with all these books. i think i'm going to start with

the book that's out now -- they're all out now -- but the one just coming out. t the one about the person i regard as the greatest of all time. i love ali, but we're talking about music now. i'll read this -- there's so many questions i could ask about aretha. we could do a whole show on aretha because she's so amazinging. those of us who followed your work know that you wrote a book with aretha some years ago. >> i did. >> i was surprised that you would do another book about aretha. but this is about aretha, it's not with aretha. why come back to aretha a second time? >> because i guess the easiest answer is she is such a great artist, and her art and life is so complex that i had to enter her world at least two times. she -- she positively deserved two books out of me.

the reason i made up my mind to do an independent biography of her after having helped her with her autobiography is because i was in the peculiar position of knowing all the key people in her life -- john hammond, her first producer. jerry wexler. i had written his autobiography. i knew lugar sandros well, and on and on and on. james cleveland of a good friend of mine. and anyway, this time around, i wanted to introduce these other characters into the text. >> yeah. >> and i wanted their point of view on -- on aretha. and i wanted to put it in a very broad cultural context which i

was not able to do with her autobiography. i hope this doesn't sound arrogant, but i also looked at the this book as sort of my opus where all these people i had known -- marvin gay, smokey robins robinson, b.b. king, etta james, any all sort of meet in the sort of myth of aretha. >> let me -- you mentioned some name. i'm trying to manage my time because i can't do justice to your body of work in a whole show. you threw name out. let me ask you just to give me a few sentences about each of these persons you worked with. then i can come back to the books you have out this year alone. how it that we've talked about respect, the first year out, the new book about aretha franklin. marvin gay. i was -- i've been on tour for the book that we've done together now. "death of a king." i've been on tower cam everybody

asks what it's like to work with david ritz. i get asked this all the time. a lady the other day said to me, to this day, her favorite book in the entire world is "divided soul." >> that's very sweet. >> the book you did with marvin gay. say a word about marvin gay. >> well, i loved him. and -- and i don't think probably since what's going on came on in 1972, that there had ever been a day which i do not listen to marvin gay. he was an extraordinary human being, aristocratic and regal and sweet. it was marvin that talked about jesus in a way that hit me in the heart. >> i don't be here too long because i have to get to ray charles. youer born jewish, you were

sbrup au-- you were born jewish, you were converted to christianity. >> it's who i am. iygo the shorthand version, as a kid i loved to go african-american churches and thought, oh, the music is great. i got older and looked at it from the an tlhropological poin of view, and one day i walked in and said wow, this is me. all this love and open not and acceptance. it is -- t okay. i can be in it rather than be on the outside looking and analyzing it. and also my whole life listening to the gospel music and mavis and more, i always in my heart had a feeling that the music wasn't only just good those it was good on such an incredible,

deep level, but of it true. that the music was -- it was true. that the music was true. took a cat like marvin gay, who was so cool and intellectual and casual to help me to kind of cross over. >> you wrote "brother ray" with ray charles? >> yeah. >> we saw the movie later. people now know a little of the life and legacy -- you were there with brother ray. talk about ray charles. >> he was intense. one of the most high-energy people i've ever met. i don't know if -- if i've told you this story before, but this is how it all sort of began for me. i came to l.a., i wanted to do is -- to do a book with ray charles. i couldn't secure an interview. i went to western union, they

told me i could send a telegram to the blind in blackmail. i beg -- in to the blind in braille. i started typing, you will understand why i have to do your story. no one in the office knew how to read braille other than him. they gave him the telegram, and i was over there the next:4ykmv. and we hit it off. he knew i was genuine. but he was -- and it was a gig that i should not have gotten because i didn't have -- >> the experience. >> the credit. i had the chops even though i didn't understand at the that point that i had the chops. but his intuition told him that i had the chops. it was a joy. >> b.b. king, you wrote his book with him. >> easy -- an easier book to do. he travels on the bus, and he's -- and very relaxed man. the opposite of -- ray charles

was jumping out of his skin at all times. b.b. king's very relaxed. and you go on the bus and tour, and you talk in the afternoons. but a wonderful guy. >> yeah. >> i should mention because i know this, b.b. is very good friends with willie nelson. you're working now on willie nelson's book. out in a year or so? >> right. next april or may. >> buddy guy. >> a country guy. like ray charles is extremely country and an easy person to talk to. when i began doing the book with ray charles, i didn't know exactly what i was doing. you know, i was doing interviews. and as i heard him talk, i had this epitch me to. and the epiphany was that there is that you learn to talk before you sing. and his singing style comes out

of his talking style. so i heard his music in his talk. i heard his music in his talk. then i thought my job is to create a prose that reflects that was musicality. one i learned that, i was off. >> i saw you do this a moment ago and seen it a thousand time. your keyboard is what you play. when you're working with these great artists -- i don't have time to get to natalie cole and etta james, smokey robinson, and some other. when you're at the keyboard, do you consider yourself an artist? >> i do -- yes. and also because, you know, lots of artists have a hard time, they get writer's block, they don't want to work. i always want to work. the reason i always want to work is because i -- thanks to the god of love, i'm able to put joy into my work.

and the joy comes out of my pretendinging that i'm not an author, but i'm a herby hancock or keith jarrett or george duke. and i get to be funny and riff and get to play. play. instead of the author who has to turn out the tone and people are going to criticize it. no, no, no, i get the play. >> yeah. >> and my whole template is jazz which is to i don't outline before i do my books. i have a general kind of notion. but i don't have an abc outline i jam. so jazz has always been my paradigm. >> yeah. i got 2.5 minutes to go -- >> how did that snap. >> i just got started. i know. i'm going to put a picture up. we were honored to have on this program a few days ago, your friend, joe perry. guitarist for aerosmith. there a wonderful picture we'll

put up in a second. the minute the interview of over, i asked his wife, with him all the time, to come on stage. i want a picture of the three of us. she walks up and is crying crocodile tears. i said -- he was stunned. i was stunned like, what's wrong? asking for a picture. why are you cryinging? she couldn't get it out, she said, "we just got a call. and i just talked to david ritz. and the book just hit the best seller list." >> that's great. >> a great picture you'll see of the two of them kissing in this chair when when it made the best seller list. "rocks," in and out with joe perry. "respect," the book about aretha franklin. i saw the book -- >> i loved it. >> rick james? >> i loved rick. i hope this book honors him because he is worthy of it. >> so glow, rick james, never interviewed. we met before and on the list to

come back again for his book, andrew dice clay. not necessarily a musician but a jazz artist. >> in his own way and improviser. >> who is this guy, tavis smiley? >> i don't know. i was curious about that. >> yeah, yeah. >> reporter: that was a huge honor for me. aappreciative of askinging me because i know it how much it means to you. >> king's my hero. i wanted to work with you because you have all these wonderful ways as the real artists know of -- >> thank you, thank you very much. >> caller: you close for us. a great place to close, for a guy who has stuttered his whole life, you have this unique ability to help others find their voice. that's your gift. so that you know the brilliance of your own voice through the brilliance of your arteries. >> i appreciate that. and i -- artistry.

>> i appreciate that. and i love you. >> i love you back. for those of you who never knew what he sounded like or -- he does exist. there's a real guy named david ritz. i love you. thanks for watching. as always, keep the faith. ♪ for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me about john sec ada and his new memoir, "the new day." that's next time. see you then.

and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪

>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with michael lewis whose written a series of best sellers it all began with liar's poker 25 years ago. >> i look for emotion. i like something, i need to feel something about the story that is going to get me out of bed in the morning. that's the sustaining thing. >> rose: that's a question. >> it's not just a question it's like a feeling, something that really gets my juices flowing. and it's a different thing with each book, but i just like the emotional, i'm having an emotional experience diswroovment we end with aaron david miller's book the end of greatness which he talks about what makes a great president and why we have so few. >> i began to understand about the presidency greatness three undeniably great presidents in 250 year