good evening from los angeles, i'm tavis smiley. tonight a conversation with nas on the 20th anniversary of the release of his groundbreaking album "illmatic." the innovative c.d. which captured the rawness of his life in new york in the 1958 80s is also the subject of "time is illnatic" debuting at the prestigious tribecca film festival. we're glad you've joined us. a conversation with nas coming up right now. ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ >> nas of anas was just 20 when he put everything he had into his groundbreaking "illmatic." on the c.d., you hear his innovative lyric capturing the confusion and excitement of growing up in new york city in the 1980s. the c.d. has just been rereleased in a 20th edition on n a documentary about nas' life

and times. just premiered at the tribecca film festival. we'll begin with a look from "illmatic" called "halftime." the ♪ too much flavor i pull a number like a pager ♪ ♪ because i'm an ace of a base 49 is the place that is giving me grace ♪ ♪ another dose and you might be dead i wouldn't change that ♪ ♪ ain't a thing going to change i'm a performer in the game ♪ ♪ why did you do it you know you got the mad sat when you rhyme it's nap time ♪ ♪ rhyme ♪ >> i want to start by asking what it feels like to be relevant in this game 20 years later. >> wow. i didn't ask for it. i didn't think about 20 years ago. i didn't think about it. just happened. like it just currentrept up on me.

crazy. i'm happy elated. i'm enjoying it you know. definitely enjoying it. >> i ask that question in part because you know better than i do that this business changes like the speed of light speed of sound. to have done something 20 years ago that's still relevant, still being played, that people still, you know, are pumping that's -- that's a big deal, particularly in the genre that you're in. hip-hop. >> yes. >> i literally -- a couple nights ago -- went on line just to refresh my own memory about the folk who have come and gone in this game. >> wow. yeah. >> over 20 years. it's -- i don't want to call out names but you were there, so you know. a lot of folk, man, who came and went. here you are 20 years later still doing your thing. >> yeah. i've just been lucky in a lot of ways. and rap years, i'm up there.

>> i think rap years are worse than dog years. i think you're way up there, man. >> yeah. dogs live longer than rappers. >> yeah. yeah. >> i mean, it's bad. yeah, i've been lucky man. i've just, you know, stay out of the way. that's my whole thing. i get it in, and i get out the way, you know. >> yeah. you said rapper i said rapperment andrapper. and every time i think of you, though, i think of whether or not it is offensive small "o," the that you're still being called a rapper 20 years later when i know that what you see yourself as a musician who does rap. but i assume after 20 years, you've gotten comfortable with the title rapper? >> yeah. what are you going to do? >> yeah. >> you know, it's what it is. i don't mine that. i like the term emcee. nobody uses that. like where the emcees at.

>> why is that? >> emcee is kind of associated with the old school or -- or whereas rap groups used to have it would be not just a solo artist, it would be a group because you always had a deejay. back in the days it was a deejay of a group. that was the emcee, and that was the deejay. that's changed. we're solo artist now. we've got our names. it should be emcee sha-d, i had an emcee name when i was trying to come up trying to be a young writer. that kind of just evolved into something else. to rapper. >> yeah. >> and rapper needs to go. rapper hung around too long. >> yeah. when you look back on "illmatic" the two decades later, what do you think specifically of the lyrical content? >> it was bold. it was revealing. it was honesty.

it was introspective. it was really painting a picture of everything i see. everything that was around me. everything that i loved at the time. i make references to things that are no longer in style on that album. i see -- i say words like you know, fat, like that's like -- that's a fat suit you got the on. today you say something different like that's a nice suit. or that's a smooth suit. i used old-school term and that stuff. it'sa cool because it's like right there cemented in that time, you know. >> how do you feel when you hear this 20 years later about the conditions that you were living in then versus the conditions -- maybe those same conditions you tell me, that young folk who are your age then have to navigate every day in 2014? >> well the good and bad. the bad is because those

situations that existed then are, you know, still happening now. the things that we're talking about, was talking about. the good thing about it is what has changed with even musicians and rappers and all of that to become businesspeople. and that way we opened doors, and -- >> including yourself? >> yes. >> with shoes and everything else -- >> yes. you know, kids see me open a sneaker store in vegas, they might aspire to do something bigger and better. they might want to design their own shoe. they know it's possible now when they see it. back then, that wasn't happening. when that roar dropped, a lot of things wasn't -- record dropped a lot of things wasn't happening that's happening now. there's more hope when they see us. we see more doors opening than we saw back then. >> what's the upside? i know i can ask you this, you'll give me an honest answer. you always do. what's the upside and what's the downside, the good and bad, sunny and slummy side of hip-hop

being so mainstream now? actually mainstream -- let me back that -- even if you don't think that hip-hop has gone mainstream, and i can debate you on that all night we can have that conversation -- even if you think it hasn't gone mainstream it has been accepted by the mainstream. those are not necessarily -- what do you make of the fact that hip-hop is so accepted no by the mainstream? >> everything that's good everybody wants to put their hand on. and the multi media puts their hands on and everything happens that makes it global. people forget the roots of it and forget why they care about it. it gets torn apart and turned so commercial that you don't even know what it -- the, sense of rks -- the essence of the art form is about. the thing about that is no matter what's going on in the mainstream world, i almost -- i'm almost the guy who tries to tell the people i meet like

never focus on mainstream. never focus on the pop world. do what you do and that world will come to you. don't run to that because that -- i don't even know what that is out there. it's big, it's life, it's glittering. it looks like it's everything. but if you don't focus on that and you just focus on what you're doing, we can stay in control of the art form. then we continue to push each other. the rewards are better anyway than chasing it. with the mainstream, you got big successful acts that become household names overnight. the guy who'ss who stick to their guns may not become howl names overnight. may not even -- become household names overnight. may not even need to become household names. within the great circle of people who admire great work, you will have their respect. while there's mainstream, it is what it is. you've got to continue doing what you're doing. >> i guess the question is whether or not hip-hop music as

an art form can be mainstreamed -- >> yes -- >> -- and still have the truth at the epicenter of it. >> yes, yes, it can. yes it can. iggy did it. tupac did it. jay-z's done it. eminem's done it. i've done it. yes, of course. run dmc has done it. you know what i mean? so you know but after run dmc's generation, i think that generation got caught there, you know. they invented it. they invented rock with rap and getting all this wide audience, and then we brought it back to the street. and then that world outside world, came to us anyway. we didn't have to put guitars in it. we didn't have to do anything to make -- to cross over. they crossed over to us with our generation, mine and all of that. >> yeah. what do you make of the fact that you have survived an industry that has at times had its own level of violence? n part because you chose to stay

out of the way? is that what you meant? you mean something les? >> no you got it. it's the same way in the streets. if you feel like you're on to something that's going to be big and there's a lot of distractions, there's a lot of people that's not going to want to see you get there you have to navigate yourself around that. you've got to -- it's the same thing, same rules apply to the rap music because it's the streets now with record deals, you know what i'm saying? so you had to live by those same rules. and sometime when you're working, b.i.g. was out working his new record. and we weren't used to having bodyguards. i didn't have real bodyguards at the time. i don't know if he had real bodyguards. he was just out there, and you know, it could have been -- it could have been me. it could have been me out there. but he was dead center in that beef at the time. but overall, just moving around all the unnecessary stuff, when you know there's a higher goal in your life, there shouldn't be

nothing that hold you back from reaching your goal. you have to be right on your thing. you know what i'm saying? stand fast. you can't break away. you can't try to chill with this crowd for a little while because this crowd might be mixed up with something that you don't want to be mixed up with. stay on your course. that's the only way. take the money and run was a phrase made by wise cowboy or something. somebody knew something -- >> take the money and run. >> yeah. >> since you have stayed on your grind -- the point you make, you stayed on your grind since " "illmatic "illmatic" first came out, what does nas think of his gift 20 years later? i mean, the goal to your point a moment ago is to get better. we want to stay focused and want to improve. we want to keep advancing. when you hear your stuff i mean "illmatic" the is awfully good. there are two ways to look at this. you start at the top, and you vehicle done straight to the bottom. i mean -- and you could have

gone straight to the bottom. i mean, everybody of like how is he going to top this. you're career could have gone straight to the bottom. or you had to really challenge yourself to push forward for another 20 years. how do you think you've done? >> i've did okay. i did okay. you know, failure is not an option. and i always felt like -- i'm a man who has -- who sdrnt redoesn't have regrets, and i don't have excuse. i can't take excuses. i can't blame anything or person for the reason i didn't get here. i couldn't live with myself if there was -- if i didn't make it to where i wanted to make it, i have to live with that, you know. and that's it. we're men. so i approached my music that way because we have a lot to say in the words. there's so many words that it's in -- in each song, in each verse. there's so many word. we've got the a lot to get out there. we're revealing a lot about ourselves and what we feel and

who we are. and i got to live by that word. so if it doesn't work, then i got to bow out. and that's it. but there will be no excuses. so that's how i lived it. >> artistically you think you're better now than you were 20 years ago? >> i don't know. sometimes -- sometimes i think about 20 years ago where i -- what i wanted to do if i wasn't bombarded with the business of the music business, you know. there was a lot of different ways i wanted to go with it that i never got a chance to. do today i'm more learned. i've figured out some things. i can see myself doing thing real good things moving forward, too. so -- yeah. i was cool back then. now i'm -- i might be better. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> when you hear yourself in the studio or on stage your flow, your stylings your writing on balance? you think you're better now than 20 years ago?

>> what are you getting at? >> i'm trying -- >> what are you trying to say? >> i'm trying to get your own assessment of your gift over 20 years because this was such an iconic and seminal piece of work. >> yeah. >> if this had been or turns out to be -- "illmatic" the -- if this turns out to be your magnum opus, are you okay with that? >> yes, i am. 100%. >> i got my answer. >> yes, 100%. 100%. couldn't ask for a better roar. when i approached it -- better record. when i approached it i approached it trying to be the best. i was really young but i had a lot to say. i knew what i wanted to. do i'm proud of it. i'm glad i can be proud of it now. again i'm lucky because i can hear the imperfections in it but that's also what makes it a cool record. >> you can hear that? >> i can hear it. >> i can't hear none of it. no imperfections. yeah. >> most people -- i antibiotic to actors and some haven't seen their movies because of that.

they know they were -- bad to them. to us it was amazing. oscar award-winning type of performances. so i can hear it. i will never say what it was -- >> you're not going to tell me? >> no, you're my man, but no -- i want you to enjoy it the way -- >> i'm not going ask you because i don't want to know. it sounds awfully good to me. you put the re-release out and got new mix stuff on here, too. >> yeah. what we did, we found a demo, too, called "i'm a villain." i must have about 16 years-year-old we went in the studio and did that. and we were hustling back then to get in the studio with that song. so i'm surprised it popped up. i don't even have a copy of it. i'm happy that the label found that song, "i'm a villain," produced by jay supreme from my neighborhood. and the rest of -- of them are remixes that came out back then. old '90s sounding remixes that were -- that were b sides and stuff like that.

we just put -- compiled the stuff on there for anybody that might remember some of that. >> speaking of the producers -- and this is kind of inside the game, but i want to raise it with you because i have an appreciation for it. you were early on with putting three, four big producers on one project. i mean you know back in the day when most people were hustling -- it's them and their crew, they're doing the whole thing top to bottom. but you had some -- >> i was thinking about it a lot. yeah. well you know what, i knew it was my time. i think a lot of us know when it's our time. no matter what profession you're in you get a feeling, if you worked on it long enough you know when it's ready. i felt like it was ready, and it would be a shame if i would not do -- i saw so many people make the wrong moves with their records. and i needed my stuff to have the right music with it. so i knew someone who knew all those guys that could help me put the record together.

and -- >> big stuff. that's big stuff. you mentioned movies a moment ago. when it comes to your documentary, there's a line in a movie "the broadcast news," a line i loved the first time i heard. it the line is -- what do you do when your life exceeds your dreams. what do you do when your life exceeds your dreams? for years, i wrestled with that question. i finally figured out for myself, when your life exceeds your dreams, you dream bigger dreams. that's what it was for me. >> definitely. >> when you're sitting in new york and robert de niro walk on stage to introduce a film -- >> yes -- boy -- >> -- about your life, how do you -- you're a kid of the city of new york. >> yes. >> how do you process that? how does that feel? >> well, i was hitting my boy, hitting my brother. hitting everybody like, yo, robert de niro just said my name. he just said "illmatic." robert de niro said "illmatic"

at tribecca film festival. opening night for the film festival. it was surreal. you know i watched the "godfather." the and "godfather 2" is my favorite movie. my brother said, "godfather is watching you." i'm done, i can retire. i've done it all. at that point just because robert de niro said "illmatic," i'm done. like i'm good. i don't have to do nothing else. need a break or something. >> yeah. for folk who are maybe hearing about this for the first time -- i don't know where they've been -- hearing about it for the first time, that name, "i-l-l-m-a-t-i-c," how did that become the name of the project? >> it was yawn mebeyond me. it was used in my neighborhood in the '80s. i was a kid and would hear older guys say "that's illmatic" the or "those sneakers is illmatic." there was a guy on my block that

everybody knew, the big dude on the block. and the whole neighborhood knew him. he had most respect. you know salute to illmatic out there wherever you are. you inspired an album. but it was just the terminology in queensbridge you know? >> i get -- i get kicks out of this sometimes because madison avenue has become really good -- they always have been at this, but they've become really good at it in the age of hip-hop of just siphoning off the language. i look up, i'm looking up on cnn or it can be the most bland news network, and i hear the anchor or will hear the voiceover specialist in a commercial i'm like, it's -- it cracks me up that the stuff we come up with just finds its way into the most interesting mainstream places even all these years later. >> right. then we're black and we still hear words that -- what's that mean? like every day i hear a word and

feel like maybe i'm out of touch. you don't know what this means? so -- we're black, and we're are -- our people come up with stuff that just throws us sometimes. like now i'm out of touch. like it's just young people got this thing you know what i mean? and it just -- yeah. it's everywhere. and everybody's using the language. that's good. that's good because it's tying us together a little closer. >> i'm -- i'm going to put you on the spot. tell me all the stuff you've got jumping off now. entrepreneurially, come on, you ain't got to brag. i set you up. sneaker store. tell use -- go ahead. >> well, sneaker store. fun thing. >> you can make money and have fun. i like doing that. >> yeah. >> it's better that way, as a matter of fact. >> exactly, man. sneaker store is something that we're doing now. >> right. >> i'm a venture capitalist now. >> yeah. >> and this is the first time i'm saying it on television -- >> you're a v.c. >> yeah. i'm texted up.

i'm invested in -- teched up. i'm invested in a lot of tech and producing tv, i'm working that thing out there. a little at a time. i don't want to say too much. >> right. >> you know i'm really happy about everything i'm into. i'm learning a lot. i'm in a whole new world now. i'm 40. >> i think nas told us we need a producer for the show. he might want to pump some money into our project. is that what you said? >> i definitely said that. i definitely said that. >> is that what i thought i heard you say? >> that would be an honor. that would be an honor. >> i got a minute to go. i, talk could talk to you for hours. i knew i had made it when my name made it into a nas song. "negro, did you hear the new nas track? he mentioned your name." >> the i try to talk about thing

and people that matter. >> i appreciate that. covering "time" magazine, "newsweek," "the npr," none of that meant anything to my family my brothers, until my name of in a nas track. that's a big deal. >> thank you. >> i assume that -- all things considered you are beyond grateful at this point. >> i'm very grateful. very happy, excited about what's next. and what's happened -- i was having trouble getting inspired to record until the campaign started for the first record. listening to it it took me back and made me remember what my plan was musically. you know. it made me look at everything that's going on since then and -- and it showed me where i was at. it showed me where i after at today. i got real inspired. so i'm grateful. >> you are say some folks are ledgegends in their own

mind ledge indiana their own time. you're a legend. your election"20 years later," re-release stuff you have not heard. i highly recommend. it and i come to vegas, i'm going stop by your sneaker store. >> on the house. you're good. credit's no good there. >> i'm definitely coming. >> yeah. >> love you, man. >> love you, too. >> great to have you on. that's our show for tonight. thanks for watching. and as always, keep the faith. ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at the pbs.org. >> hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with oscar winner angelina jolie about "unbroken." that's next time. we'll see you then. ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more, pbs.

>> rose: welcome at that time program, we begin this evening with a tragedy in paris, and for a look at today's news, cheer is scott pelley of the cbs evening news. >> tonight in their hour of sadness the people of france are showing the world their determination. they mourned the 12 killed yesterday in the terror attack on the satirical magazine "charlie hebdo" or carlie weekly. some held pencils in honor of the pfeiffer cartoonists without died-- the five cartoonists who died. the nationwide manhunt for two suspects still on the loose is now into its second night and we have a series of reports. we'll begin with clarissa ward north of paris. clarissa? >> good evening scott. this gas station is the last place where those two suspected gunmen were believed to have been seen making the rural area all around here the