>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight, remembering dr. martin luther king jr. and we start with john lewis the congressman and friend of dr. king. >> martin luther king, jr. helped free and liberate, not just the people but a nation. >> rose: and we continue with david oyelowo, who plays dr. king in the film "selma". >> she was an american hero but he didn't walk around in his life thinking i am an hero, i am an icon, i am a historical figure, he was a a man with flaws, with failings, with weaknesses with transcendent qualities as well but where i connected with him is, you know, he is man of faith, i am a man of faith i am a father of four, he was a father of four. and these were my entry points. he lived a life of not just talking about it but actually

doing it. >> rose: we conclude this evening with jessica class stain and oscar isaac talking about their most recent first a most violent year. >> there was, you know, when i got the script the documentary .. i don't know if you saw it the documentary that came out. >> rose: right. >> an it was fresh in my mind and i read the script and i sat down with jc and has a four-hour lump and i said, i know it is off the wall but to me he is not the wife,? he is dick cheney and she in this -- he is the face of the partnership, this is going to sound terrible but in her eyes he is the brain of it and he is going to do the dirty stuff that he wants to be ignorant of and keep him clean. >> i think ultimately what we are being paid to do is just inhabit a psyche for a certain amount of time and my that out play that meditation out, and how to do that, i am constantly curious about how, what that process is and refining it and like you said, every character is different every single one that you play requires different

parts of yourself. >> rose: congressman john lewis the argument david oyelowo, the jessica chastain and oscar isaac when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following. >> additional funding provided by -- >> >> and by bloomberg a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> >> rose: on this day we pay tribute to the life and helping situate of

leader of the civil rights movement would have turned 86 on january 15, his commemoration comes at a time of increasing racial tension, public outcry, massive protests were sparked in the aftermath of two grand jury decisions regarding the death of michaelable brown and eric garner new york city those raised new questions about the progress yet to be made in in in achieving king's vision. >> i don't know what will happen now, we have got some difficulties ahead. but it doesn't matter with me now because i have been to the mountaintop. i don't mind. like anybody i would like to live a long life, longevity has its place, but i am not concerned about that now. i just want to do god's will and he has allowed me to go up to

the mountain and i have looked over and i i have seen the promised land. i may not get there with you, but i want you to know that we as a people will get to the promised land. >> rose: president obama has both spoken of the challenge of dealing with racism but at the same time has noted that significant progress has been made. >> this isn't going to be solved overnight. this is something that is deep i are rooted in our society, it is deeply rooted in our history, but the two things that are going to allow us to solve it, number one, is the understanding that we have made progress and so it is important to recognize as painful as these incidents are, we can't equate what is happening now to what was happening 50 years ago, and if you talk to your parent, grandparents uncles they will tell you that, you know things are better not good in some

cases but better. and the reason it is important for us to understand progress has been made is that then gives us hope we can make even more progress. >> rose: this marks the 50th selma mark, dr. king led that march hundreds of peaceful protesters set off across the bridge outside selma on march 7, 1965 and attacked and beaten by state police and other in an assault that is known as bloody sunday congressman john lewis helped lead the protesters on that fateful day an was severely beaten. he spoke with jan crawford of cbs this morning about his experience and the legacy of his friend martin. >> they walked through the shadows of history taking their places where greatness once stood. >> i have a dream. >> delivering a message with enduring power. >> i have a dream that one day this nation will rise up to live out the true meaning of its creed, i have a dream and my

four little children. >> one nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. i have a dream. >> for these washington d.c. students like ten-year-old lee i can't jeffers. >> king shaped their lives. >> people still have their signs up and people were saying white only and no blacks al allowed, and blacks and whites would never come together. >> what does it look like now? >> now everybody is friends with everybody. we love each other and that's how it is supposed to be. >> two generations after the civil rights movement through the teachings of martin luther king, jr., america is a nation changed. >> for these young people martin luther king, is my hero. >> congressman john lewis, son of an alabama sharecropper became a leader of the movement inspired by king. he taught us to hate is to have a burden to

bear, as young people you must never, ever hate you must never, ever become bitter or hostile. you must be hopeful, you must be optimistic and never never give up. >> there are those who ask about civil rights, when will you be satisfied? >> we can never be satisfied as long as the negroes are the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. >> but in the wake of the death of michael brown and eric garner at the hands of police, there is fear the dream for many seem far away. >> we still have a distance to go before we lay down the scars of racism in america. i truly believe that these young people growing up today in the fifth grade will grow up in a better society a different

society. we will get it right. >> lewis bears those scars nearly 50 years ago in alabama on bloody sunday, he helped lead protesters across the edmond perez bridge. for lewis those memories caused pain .. >> i was wearing a backpack in this backpack i had two books, i thought we would be arrested and go to jail i wanted to have something to read, i had one apple and one orange. i wanted to have something to eat. >> instead of arrest and jail, he and others were brutally beaten, his skull fractured. >> i thought i was going to die. i thought i was going to die. my legs went from under me, i fell, i just thought this is it. and i said to myself, i am going down this bridge. the images shocked america giving a call

for religious leaders to come to selma, two years later with federal protection he and other leaders and thousands of people crossed that bridge and on to montgomery a peaceful pro test for the right to vote. later that year congress passed the voting rights act. >> the legacy of dr. king, we -- how do you even put that into words? >> martin luther king, jr. helped free and liberate not just a people but a nation. >> black and white? >> black and white and he taught us all so much through his action, his words, he taught us how to live, he taught us how to die. that if you believe in something that is so precious and so necessary you have to stand up for it and speak up and speak

out. >> let freedom reign. >> to continue working for that day -- >> when all of god's children, black men and white men, protestants and catholics will be able to join hands and sing in the old negro spirituals free at last, free at last, thank god we are free at last. >> rose: the new film called "selma" tells the story of the selma to montgomery march, david oyelowo stars as martin luther king, he appeared on this program recently and spoke of the challenges of in, of embodying the legendary figure. >> detroit, new york, los angeles and fighting large scale arrests and sympathy marches. >> i am very aware of that, mr. hoover. what i do know is, nonviolence is what i need right now.

what is martin luther king about to do next? >> dr. kay is here. >> mr. president, in the south, there have been thousands of racially motivated murders. >> we need your help, dr. king things are just going to have to wait. >> they cannot wait. >> you have big issues, i have 101. >> here is the next great battle. >> selma is the place. >> dr. king. >> i tell you, that white boy can hit. >> we will not tolerate -- orchestrate a disturbance in this state. it is unacceptable that they use their power to keep us voice less. those that have gone before us say no more. >> ♪ >> when a man stands up and says enough is enough. >> we do the best we can rock by

rock. >> we must march we must stand up. you march those people into rural alabamas alabama it is going to be open season. >> may i have a word? >> there are no words -- >> the people, the people, the people, the people the people ♪ >> there are 70 million people watching. they, this is going around the world. >> we must make a massive demonstration. >> white back and otherwise -- >> i heard about the attack of innocent people i could not just stand by. >> it looks like an army out there. >> this revolution goes on and on, this revolution goes on and on ♪ >> i have seen the glory glory glory hallelujah. >> when a man stands up and says enough is enough.

>> rose: what was it about the man that you saw that you knew if you could get that, you would show something about the dimensions of someone who is part of an american struggle but is an american hero? >> well, that is the thing, exactly what you just say there, the man. he was an american hero but he didn't walk around in his life thinking i am a hero, i am an icon, i am a historical figure. he was a man with flaws with failings, with weaknesses with transcendent qualities as bell but where i connected with him, he is a man of faith he is a man of faith i am a father of four, he was a father father of four. and these were my entry point. he lived the life of not just talking about it but actually doing it. his great oration, of course of things we know about him but he walked this walk and he was plucked out of obscurity at the age of 26 and he did this for 13

years. >> when he took over the church. >> right, and the montgomery busboy, at 26 and contributed qualities i deeply admire as a man and those were the things that really drew me to him. >> rose: the interesting thing about this film is that you get a chance to see that there were these -- all the factors that are at play and it is a day by day endeavor and it is about strategy. yes. >> it is about trying to understand what the forces are against you, it is about enter within the black, interblack battles between young and not so young, it is different people who thought they had a better way. >> and king heard all of those conversations. >> yes. that's what i think is revelation-ory. >> when people see the film, when you think of nonviolence they think they were soft, as compared to a malcolm x but what

people don't necessarily realize. >> rose: he was more fiery. >> right but actually when you dig into this it was incredibly subversive, the idea of using love to shame racists into taking a look at themselves the idea of going into a place like selma and making sure the cameras roll while you provoke these people to do what they do behind closed doors and what they do when the cameras aren't rolling, in front of the cameras, make them, you know, it wasn't pa dismissal or a gentleman she can down of violence, it was using violence, the kind of violence that when exhibited brings about change which is what happened in selma. >> rose: it was said about winston churchill i think, maybe about president kennedy i am not sure that he mobilized the english language and then took it to war. king kid kiddied the same thing here. >> yes. >> rose: a nonviolent war from his side. >> right. >> rose: and not so nonviolent at all from the other side. >> right.

this was the incredible thing about the oratory of his that we celebrate. i truly feel why he was picked to do this, i mean you have to realize he was a leader of leaders, not just a leader of people not a just a voice for the voiceless, he was surrounded by incredible minds but what he was able to do was bring all of their ideas together and articulate them in a way that was actionable, and, you know, for me, getting to speak those words, the other thing you realize is that something was flowing through him other than him. his faith was a huge part of this. he had a spirit july conviction that, spirit you'll conviction that he lived by and he used to inspire people, he used big words people didn't always understand what he was saying but the force in which he said it. >> and the cadence and the. >> yes. >> rose: and the rising tone. >> yes. and he was able to shift between being with presidents and being with the people .. all with

the way he spoke. he was able to inspire johnson towards change and inspire these people to put people on the line for the cause. >> what did he think of johnson? >> i think it was definitely mixed. >> in the end -- >> johnson did the right thing, but he was cajoled. he was pushed, i think that if bloody sunday hadn't happened he may have been able to put off the voting rights act. >> look, from johnson's point of view he just passed the civil right act in the wake of president kennedys kennedy's assassination but that didn't take away from the fact the denial of voting rights. >> it was a very real problem in the south and couldn't be put off and dr. king and the were quite right in pushing for this it was a big ask still for johnson. i think in -- >> rose: president johnson said to him you have one big thing, i have 100 big things. >> right.

and i think as a result, dr. king was always going to have a layered and conflicted relationship with any president, because politicians are there to compromise. they are there to try and please everyone, for him, it is a much more black and white thing and when those forces butt heads there is going to be fireworks as there was between king and johnson. >> rose: take a look at this. it is in the front of the congregation demanding the vote. here it is. >> as long as i am unable to exercise my constitutional right to vote, i do not have command of my own life. i cannot determine my own destiny, when it is determined for me who people who would rather see me suffer than success. those that have gone before us say, no more no more! >> no more! >> that means protests, that means marches that means disturb the peace.

that means jail. that means risk, and we will not wait any longer. give us the vote. that's right. no more. we are not asking. we are demanding. give us the vote. >> give us the vote! >> rose: i think it was the director who said about sell marks she said selma is the story about voice. what did she mean? >> well, i think it is about the people making their voice known. it is about a leader giving a voice to the voiceless. it is about humanity coming together to say enough is enough, which is what you see when dr. king asks for people who have a conscience to come down and help, help us the tell the nation, help us tell the president this is not okay. it is really -- there were people whose voices were

trampled upon, the literacy tests, all of these men's which people were kept away from being able to register to vote, you know, they needed a voice. >> rose: it is great to have you here. >> thank you. >> rose: thank you. david oyelowo a film, he played dr. martin luther king as we have been talking about, everybody i know is raving about the film. >> because it is history and because you have a sense of being there and you feel the fear, you feel the hope, you feel all of those things that are part of the dynamic of change selma. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: there is a new movie, it is called a most violent year, it stars oscar isaac and jessica chastain .. it is set in new york city in 1981 which was the most dangerous year in the city's history. it follows an immigrant businessman as he tries to protect his business without compromising his values. here is the trailer for the

film. >> i understand you and your men have a job to do here, but we are in the middle of a ten-year-old birthday's party. >> i am sorry. >> that's not a problem. he has nothing to hide from you. my husband is a good man. >> don't make his honesty for weakness, he deserves respect. >> that was very disrespectful. >> i run a fair and clean business and i will fight to my last breath to prove that. >> he is, these are dangerous times and we have to adapt. it is not like when we were striving. >> ♪ >> we have more murder and flaip the city last year than there has ever been, so we have a urgent security issue here, if you tell me that, trust me i am aware. >> it has been two years since you started investigating my i have. >> do you have any idea who has been doing this to us? >> maybe you are doing something

to bring this on yourself. >> i have always taken the path that is most right. the result is never in question for me. just what path do you take to get there. >> where did you get that .. >> found it in the bushes outside the front door. >> it is not a brick through a car window this is your kid playing with a loaded gun. >> katie! >> 58 coming down with a 14 count dime, just pushed ate little too far. >> can't have this situation continuing. >> if you shoot someone it will be the end of everything we have worked for. >> you now have serious legal cases against you ranging from fraud to tax evasion. >> it wasn't your good luck helping you out all of these years it was me. >> i don't want anything to do with it! >> it feels scary to jump that's exactly when you jump.

>> otherwise you end up staying in the same place your whole life. >> and that i can't do. >> rose: joining me now, the film's two stars, oscar isaac and jessica chastain, i am pleased to have them at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: this is a reunion this movie, in a bit for you, isn't it? >> yes but we never said goodbye. >> rose: ah. >> we have been friends for 12 years. >> you were friend at juilliard's. >> i was in his upper classes. >> i was the underclass. >> still am to this day. >> no, not at all. >> and we were friends, i have always admired his work from afar, and, you know, he has inspired me every tame i have seen him act and this is the first time i have been able to share a scene. >> and how did it happen? >> well i worked at selma and was going to do with another actor and that fell out and oscar just cane out inside lieu

when davis and his performance is incredible that, and i spoke to an incredible writer, director and i said i might have a guy that is perfect for this role and i sent a long e-mail and once they met it was done. >> rose: is that right? no audition? nothing? >> no. well, i guess it was kind of an audition. he would summon me throughout the weeks and i would come over and we would just hang out and just kind of listen to him talk about this and that and then one time he brought me out to these oil tankers out in williamsburg where we were two doing shoot and just showed me around, but i still hadn't gotten the part. so i wasn't sure i had something, like oyelowo this is great if i had the part and i didn't want to say that and we were in la and asked me to come over to his place and i guess the whole time he was trying to put the financing together because, you know, it was -- you know, having me play the role, it was going to shift how they got the money for the film. and then when that finally

happened he did finally say, yes, and by the way you do have the part. >> rose: what did you take from juilliard? >> so much, i mean we, you started talking about voice and understanding about the voice and how to use it, you know very technical things, you know a lot of the movies that i have done i guess because i have thisth ethnically ambiguous thing going on i have been fortunate enough to do a lot of different parts for people in different places in the world and just the ability to be able to do accents, all the dialect work we did, just gave a foundation and it really gave a basic foundation on how to approach script and how to approach a character and what was so great is jessica and i both have that foundation, the same foundation so we have a shorthand when it came to putting this movie together. >> rose: wow. what would you add to that in terms of what you came out of juilliard with? >> juilliard gives you all the tools right? it gives you a toolbox you have meissner and strauss berg and stan miss schof

ski, you have so much .. that you can take from there, animal work, and so when -- out of school now and approaching a role i don't work the same way for each part. >> rose: tell me about your character in this film. >> i play a bill morales, who is latin-american immigrant, and who has come to this country and has worked hard. he was a truck driver and then got into sales and married the boss's daughter and was able to buy the company, and has a plan, has a plan to expand and it is a time in the city, 1981 which is one of the most violent years on record, new york city is is in a state of economic collapse and bankruptcy a great exodus is happening and people are leaving in droves and this man sees opportunity here, and he says when everyone is leaving i am going build, and he is an optimist, you know, he sees the

other side of this thing and he thinks that if we can stick to the strategy, which is nonviolent and not resort to gangsterism and criminality we can make it to the goal. >> rose: how would you describe the relationship? before we say that, i mean, clearly there is a question of his values too i mean he thinks he can do it. >> yeah. >> rose: without being corrupted. >> yeah, to a certain extent and i think -- >> rose: to a certain extent or -- >> well i think he is strategic i don't think it is coming necessarily from a place of righteousness, i think the smartest strategy. >> rose: it is not righteousness? >> i don't think it is, i had a very hard time understanding it from a moral standpoint the gun he doesn't want guns. i get it. >> rose: that is a strategy? >> but i think he thinks if they find me with a gun, even if i got it legally if i shoot someone, they will just -- i am playing into exactly what they think i am. >> rose: they being the cops or they -- the da, the cops, the competitors, everybody they just want to put him to the side and say you are just a latin thug with a gun. you are not -- >> rose: they will define you.

>> yes, they want him to be the stereotype and he doesn't wanty3 to do that. >> rose: how would you describe the wife? >> anna has a different way of the going about this. her father was a comfortable with the legal, illegal activity and a chip off the old block. >> rose: get it done. >> get it done and i think that violence turns her on in a way. i think power turns her on, she is a woman, 1981, tasman's world, if she were born a son she would have been running the company, but because 1970 when it was being given away, it wouldn't be given away to the daughter so let's give it to her husband. she wants -- >> rose: she regrets that? >> i think so. >> rose: you think she would like to be -- >> yeah, i think. >> rose: the husband? >> maybe she is not even aware of it. i think there is some resentment. i think that, you know, when it bubbles up in the scenes between them, where she aligned herself with this man that she felt was

going to be her king, she would take the mace of her father and when he behaves in a way that her father wouldn't, when she sees that, in her mine, he is bearing weak, she then has to step forward, and in doing so something is freed within her, starting with there is this scene where she shoots a gun and from that moment in the movie she start to like the power she is having from now coming forward. >> rose: running over the deer or whatever it was and you didn't want to shoot and -- >> yes. she didn't have a gun. >> rose: that's right. >> as far as she knows there is no gun but just a tire iron so stands over it and is going to have to brain it. >> rose: and comes in and -- >> yeah. >> rose: almost with joy? >> yes there is a thing like, huh, i showed you, like a moment, i kept my tongue, i was quiet, i let you be the face of it because it is 1981 and you are the man but you know what? you are not going a good jobly take over.

>> rose: what does she say to him? >> at what point? there is a whole lot. >> oyelowo, yeah. >> you better not like what will happen once i get involved. >> rose: did she say you are -- >> yes, she does say that. a total -- >> it is weird because she is a woman i think she like to be a with a powerful man, lifts him up, lifts him up and the next second she emasculates him and she doesn't know what he is doing it. >> rose: and she loves it. >> she loves it. >> and trying to get a reaction. >> yes. >> he keeps saying, i will take care of it, fine. >> doesn'tn't engage, really, so, you know, at that point, it is like, you know shooting, you know, with a gun right in front of him calling him a (bleep) like really, really coming at him. >> the whole thing is be a man, what are you in? and what does he say in response to that? do you know how stupid this is? you know, he doesn't take the bait, and it is a little bit about watching someone, you know control their pride and

their ego, and that is an interesting thing. i think the thing about both of these character they really present something and who they are come dog the surface. >> but also what is really interesting to me is that he is being tested throughout the film, i mean there is a gradual tightening of the pressure on him, because of what the stakes are. >> yes. >> and allowing what he is betting on forces him to reconsider and to get closer to or a bit distance from where he thought he was in the beginning. >> or at least no longer compartmentalize the fact that you have been allowing yourself to be woefully ignorant about things. >> rose: here is one scene, take a look. >> >> what is that? >> it is a gun. it is a (bleep) gun:where did you get that? >> i found it in the bushes outside of our front door, he was playing with it.

>> look. it's loaded with the safety off. it wasn't. some kid looking to take our tv it was a (bleep) goon with a loaded gun looking in our window. >> i will take care of it. >> what does that mean when you say you'll take care of it? >> it is not a brick through a car window or another of the cute little warnings over the past few years. this is your kid playing with a loaded gun. >> i know what it is. let me deal with it. oyelowo, you better oh you better, you will not like what happens when i get involved. >> you have said and i have a quote somewhere here, it is what you said. this man is not who i am at all and i don't know how i was going to find my way in.

tell me more about that. >> yeah. the script is quite dense when i read it and it is about things that are very alien to me and also just not my interest i am an argument, it is about real estate business heating oil money finance, all things that i ran away from and went to acting school instead, so finding my way into being passionate about heating oil and passionate about these things that was tricky and also he is incredibly formal he doesn't speak with any contractions, yeah yeah, and so, you know finding the emotional just spine of that guy, that was very tricky, and finding the thing i could relate to, and ultimately i think when i figured out he was a salesman, and understood that everything is about presentation, that keyed me in, that keyed me in to the guy.

>> and here is what you said about your character. >> i think i know what you are going to say. >> rose: oyelowo, guess. >> i could. >> rose: i wanted to play dick cheney. >> yeah. you know when i got the script, the documentary, i don't know if you saw it the documentary on dick cheney came out and it was fresh in my mind and i read the script, and i sat down with jc, we had a four-hour lunch and i said, this is going to sound off the wall but to me she is not the wife,? he is dick cheney and she she in this -- he is the face of the partnership, this is going to sound terrible but in her eyes, she is the brain of it and she is going to do the dirty stuff that he wants to be ignorant of and keep him clean. >> rose: okay. but you don't want to be ignorant of it but you just accomplishment simply don't want to be involved in it or tainted by it because as you suggested it is strategic to him? >> yeah. i do think that. >> rose: there is an awareness

she thinks he is weak and dismisses it as her upbringing in values? >> i think there? definitely, that is definitely part of it but i don't think he is that self aware of these kind of things, you know, i i think he is someone that came to this country and worked his way through, you know, very blue collar kind of way and a truck driver and he got into sales because he has a personality and he has the will. >> rose: is this the baxter you created? >> yes to a certain extent but also made out a little bit in the script and jessica and i got together. >> rose: you did do that. >> oh yeah we got together over tea and went through every line of the screen there is a screen i hit him, has this ever happened before? have we ever been physically violent so when we were on the play we could just play loo. >> rose: the two of you, not director. >> we did it first by ourselves and went to the director by our binders and says thid this is what we figured out and he

filibustered up, oyelowo you juilliard kids are freaking me out, leave me alone. >> rose: okay. here is another scene. take a look at this, this is where you are talking to the da played by david oyelowo. >> this is probably one you are going to regret. >> really? my husband is an honorable man. we are not who you think we are. >> i think i know your father w. >> good for you. >> my husband is not my father. not even close. so if i were you, i would start treating us with a little more respect or i guarantee he will make it his mission in life to

ruin you. it is very disrespectful. >> rose: you loved that didn't you? >> the funniest thing is, i didn't know when it was happening, like it was going to become a whole thing and now people are tweeting me of gifs like this is very -- like, fantastic, people -- people on the street come up to me and go -- that is disrespectful. >> david come up to him and say it too. >> i love it, it is so gangster. >> rose: he is a great argument. >>actor. >> he is getting a lot of attention. i know i know. and, you know, david and i have been in three films, but this is the first scene we have ever had together our characters never crossed and it was good fun. what i loved so much about that scene he is not even aware of it but when she says he is my

husband, not my father, he keeps mixing us him and us, you better trust us with respect she is actually talking about herself. >> rose: yes. i got that. >> you know, which is so cool. >> it goes to show how great she is too because that was her idea to bring a piece of cake to him, you see him holding this huge piece of birthday cake. >> rose: that was your idea. >> a great little thing. like when you talk about i want really long nails, i want to give him a piece of cake and people say that is crazy why would you hand him cake, but it is so emasculating for this da to stand there with birthday cake when she is like, ah we are friend and just hand him his ass. >> rose: is there any conversation mention the word lady mcthe beth? >> they bring it up a lot and the thing, which i love, because lady macbeth is incredible and i think the similarities of it, of the wife trying to talk her husband into doing something illegal for their own benefit.

>> bad. >> but the difference with lady macbeth and anna is lady income beth goes crazy. >> and not crazy. >> and violence doesn't turn her stomach. >> what does she go through in this film? >> i think she get bigger. i think if we saw her in a year in ten five years. >> rose: that was my next question, yes. >> it is something that is starting to be opened and now they have a conversation where she doesn't have to be secret about the way she has been handling things, because now it is out in the open and he is, in essence although he hasn't verbally agreed he has taken the money so now we don't have to play this game. >> rose: i don't want to give too much of this away but there is some money which in the end becomes necessary in order to save his -- because he would have lost the thing he thought was the key to being competitive. >> yeah. >> right? >> yes. well he would have lost everything if he doesn't close -- >> rose: he is putting it on the line he is right there on the line and showing his own

toughness. >> what he said is a lot of these people that are mega successful you don't realize there has been at least two or three types in their lives when they have literally risked everything to grow. >> rose: right. >> and that's what you are seeing. you are seeing these people. >> for 30 days of risking everything. >> risking absolutely everything. >> rose: yes. >> so where is he at the end of this film? he has a goal and want to achieve his goal. >> yes. >> people put a bunch of obstacles in his way. >> you know, i don't know, i don't know exactly. i think that he can feel confident that his strategy has worked. >> rose: but me is more confident? because in the end does he triumph or is he simply, know through some self realization he had to change in order to achieve? >> he does at a certain point resort to some violence, right? >> rose: yes. >> but he doesn't two all the way with it. he resorts to taking money that was, you know, illegal, so he

does -- he does allow himself to really see for the first time and unfortunately he doesn't have that innocence anymore, by the end of it, because i think he says the hardest thing to do is stair somebody in the eye and tell them the truth but in order to tell them the truth you have to believe what you are saying and now i don't know how he is going to move forward being able to believe that he is taking -- you know, that is why it is funny he didn't say i take the right path but the path is that that is most right. >> rose: i got you now. let's talk about acting. are there compromises in acting similar to the compromises we see in this kind of film? not having to do with fraud or not having to do with doing illegal things but some sense of how you saw a career that might be unfolding versus in the end how it unfolds? >> yes i have been lucky because -- yes, i have never had to do that. it took they a long time,

though, to breakthrough, in this industry, i have done a lot of -- i did a lot of tv work in the beginning where i was playing a lot of victims and at the time, i mean i wouldn't want to do that anymore. at the time i didn't think about what i was putting out in the world like every character i was doing was getting raped and brutalized in some way on these tv shows which i think is a terrible thing to keep putting out into the world. >> rose: but you weren't typecast as a victim? >> well, no. actually as one point i did a tv series a guest spot of a character who is raped and brutalized and a week later i got offered a role as a guest spot in another tv show and i didn't have to audition because it was the same producer and it is like the rape victim. i don't want to be typecast as this so we have got to change that but other than that i have only taken roles, we made this movie for hard hardly any money. >> rose: this movie. >> yes, it is a creative experience.

>> rose: and working with him. >> yes. he makes me better. >> rose: how does an argument make you, argument for make you better. >> actor make you better. >> because if an actor shows up and they are bringing it you have to bring it back. you cannot be lazy, you look like a fool, i don't know my lines, i don't know what i am doing. >> rose: bring out the best you can have. >> she would provoke me, and, you know, sometimes i didn't know if it was anna doing it or jessica doing it or what because we would do vastly different things, there were a scenes we were fighting and try to hit a glass out of her hahn and it didn't go and i just laughed at him and laugh at me and i just couldn't handle it, and it would force me to really deal with what was happening, you know so -- >> it was different with oscar, we just got to play, and i trusted that he would -- i could trust in him to do anything and it it was never out of the world of the character, it was never just to be different and fun, it was i had to be present because

he was so present. i mean, oscar isaac, michael shannon, sean penn, those are those actors you show up and you have to be in the moment present, because if you are thinking about how you are going to say your lines or what you are going to have for lump or it is too cold it is gone and you haven't been there. >> rose: you said that, you know, you found that what you wanted to do was acting not banking or trucking or any of those other things. has it given you what you thought it would give you acting? >> yes. >> rose: what is that? >> i think it is the only thing that weiredly enough gives me calm and peace. it is like the one thing i know that i can do do that and i know the joy it gives me and really i think the part i love the most is the preparation. when, you know, the possibilities are endless, when you are looking for inspiration, when you are especially when you work with someone like her and you can talk about it and create so it is a real creative process so that -- it has been really

rewarding. >> rose: talk about women and i just interviewed reese wither spoon who is now, in order to take control of her life and not to use obviously words put together a production company .. of. >> because she was not getting the roles she thought she should, i mean won an oscar and other things. is that an issue? >> you know what? i am very lucky, i am getting extent incredible scripts, i am in a moment of my career i am so grateful for, however, as an audience member i am very upset to go to the cinema and not see more diversity in the cinema and that goes beyond women, it goes to african-americans and asian americans, and in particular for women it goes through women in their fifties and sixties, it is like they are erased but it is not -- >> rose: especially when people say there is meryl streep and you say there is only one meryl streep. >> yes, he is the greatest just an incredible actress one of the best in the world and, you know there is also jessica language and there is --

>> rose:. >> jessica language. >> lang .. and why are there not enough roles? >> rose: why not? >> i don't think people in the i haveindustry i have are sexist or racist i think there are a lot of good people in the industry, i think people -- we have been stuck, and the stories have been mostly about men .. a writing -- but even across the board there are only three percent, only three percent of dps are women and i a read this article. >> rose: director of photographers. >> women talking about how impossible it is to breakthrough because you have to know people you to borrow kits, and it doesn't -- it is not as difficult for men to breakthrough becoming a director of photography as it is for women, unless the theatre industry. >> but the interesting thing, do you think women look after each other more than men do. >> i look after women. >> rose: i know you do. and i know other we women that do. they feel they have a commitment

-- chris rock was a friend of mine. >> i loved his piece he wrote in the "hollywood reporter". did you read it? >> oyelowo gosh. >> oyelowo gosh that was amazing. >> he talked to me about how he say, you know don cruz doesn't have an obligation to a white audience, but i feel and denzel feels we have an obligation, it it is different and you feel like you have an obligation. >> i absolutely feel that. >> rose: how can i leverage this success i have or the achievement i have to open more doors to more women? >> definitely, i mean, there is a feeling we talked about how i started and i was on. the v and playing victims when you are starting, of course you don't say anything because you just want to work and you are so exiting and when you finally get excited to the club i am in the club, i am here, i don't want to upset anyone but we all have to take care of ever and i know incredible men who speak up there should be more women roles and the character i wrote was

originally for a man and changed it to a woman. >> rose: because he saw you in the role? >> no, just because he realized there are so many stories about fathers and sons, how about a father and daughter, he didn't have to change anything else about the character he even kept the name. >> rose: that is great. >> so women and then are not that different, the da could easily have been a woman as a man in this film, or any film. >> rose: right right. and i think the most we talk about it i do feel the responsibility to bring it up, to talk about it, it create opportunity for everyone an that's what i am most excited about. >> rose: how is he different as a director? >> he is like an independent film director which is shocking, i was really scared before i went to shoot that film because i thought this is a blockbuster. i don't know what this is. and you show up, an all the sets are practical they built everything, there was no green screen, even a test rack at the end was built the dust was real, sometimes i would do three takes and go, okay, we are done

and i would say, wait wait, wait we have enough money to go on. and he goes, no i have it, we finished i think two weeks early on that film. >> rose: here is a clip. take a look. >> will you intend the night? your room is exactly as you left it. it is ready. >> there is plenty -- >> too many memories. >> oyelowo. so much for that. g i have a trend who can look at his -- >> rose: wow. >> it is interesting, instead of watching that and watching the

clips from the most violent year, because it makes you grateful for our training because you think like even the energies of the characters are so different, one is so comfortable in her skin and it is like, hello i am here, you are welcome. and the other one it is just wants to disappear and that is what we hernandez in monis class. >> rose: what did you learn with the coen brothers? >> about pain. [laughter.] >> rose: your own pain? >> yeah. they are a little sadistic. >> really? >> well no, just like -- >> you didn't know that? >> are they really? i thought they would be funny. >> they are. >> are they terrible? >> no, it is great when it comes to comedy, if ever i did a take and think about it like oh this is really funny i would do it and it is like ah ah, and then i would go back and just think about just pain, and the pain of this person and just, i would really have that in there, and i would do it and they would crack

up. they would just start laughing. >> the more in pain you were. >> the more in pain the character was the more the director would laugh. >> why is that? >> i think they laugh when they see something that is truthful. >> that is really smart. >> so, yeah, they were great and they are a couple of beatniks. >> they should be running a coffee shop. >> rose:. >> talk about all the things you know about the responsibility to carry the film? >> no. no. that doesn't really come into it at all. no, because i think then you get ahead of it too much, you know, i am jested in the cumulative effect of what happens and this one, in a way it is zimmerman to llewellen davis, when you are with the character and with them for that long i think it is more interesting to do the slow play and eke out a little bit by little bit you see who the character is as it goes on and on and on, and that's the

cumulative effect of watching the film you get a sense of who this person is as opposed to saying i feel the need to pull the weight of every scene or something mike that. >> one thing that intrigues me about acting, i love talking about the craft, i like to talk about the craft and understand the process of it, among other things is that by nature it is something that you are constantly learn hing. >> definitely. >> rose: because there is a window that you could put up there and take a look at it and think about it how would would would i have done it differently and there are a whole range of approach it from a different direction. >> uh-huh. >> curiosity is the most important thing, i think staying curious about what it is, and how, i think ultimately what we are being paid to do is just inhabit the psyche for a certain amount of time and play that out, play that meditation out. >> and how to do that i am constantly curious about how, what that process is and refining it and like you said, every character is different,

every single one that you play requires different parts of yourself. >> rose: and experience?

at all. these people work very hard for their money and these other guys are ripping them off, treating them poorly because they don't know. so when you look them in the eye, you have to believe that we are better and we are. but you will never do anything as hard as staring someone straight in the eye and telling the truth. >> rose: congratulations. >> thank you. >> rose: it was great to have you here t i love coming here. >> rose: thank you. >> talking about acting and. >> rose: and film and experience and training and all of those things. a most violent year is out now in limited release and goes wide on friday, january 30th. thank you again. great to meet you. >> great to meet you too. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> for more program and early episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. >>

captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. >> american express, additional funding provided by -- >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you are watching pbs.

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