challenger russ feingold. now here's foundation president and ceo michelle vetterkind. good evening. the wisconsin broadcasters association and its member radio and television stations are pleased to welcome to you this u.s. senate debate between two leading candidates, senator right-hand and former senator red cross. tonight's event originates from green bay, wisconsin, at the studios behind me is legendary lambeau field, another example of the team's long time commitment to excellence. tonight's debate continues the with him ba's longstanding commitment to excellence and public service. the debate is underwritten by the wba foundtation and supported by a grant from the wisconsin association of independent colleges and universities. it is being broadcast on radio and television stations across

veteran wisconsin broadcaster, member of the wba hall of fame, and professor of leadership and media integrity at low oil adjustor-chicago, jill gizler. we want questions that are relevant, fact based, and fair, and the candidates answer with or changing the topic. in addition, we are incorporating a social media desk and journalist so viewers can pitch in on a topic or two that we might otherwise have missed. viewers can do this via the hashtag wba debate. again, social media questioners use the hashtag wba debate. now we're counting on the candidates to do their part, so let's welcome incumbent senator

feingold. well, gentlemen, let me remind you and the viewers of the formal and the rules of the road to which we'll all agreed in advance. you with will each have one minute and 30 seconds to respond to a panelist or social media desk question. we will alternate the order of the questions so each of you has the opportunity for the first and last word. if your responses don't really answer the question that was asked or you need context or moderator's option and i will give you 30 seconds to give me a specific reply. your opponent will also then get 30 seconds as well. now, we keep to time limits. there's a countdown clock in the studio. it is big, and we can all see it. if you go over your time or intrude on each other's time, i will give you one warning. if you ignore it, your mic will cease to function.

each candidate. we flipped a coin. the answer, the first answer will go to russ feingold. the first question from tom wilborn of wl u.k. green bay. first topic for the evening as to do with a recent marquette university law school poll showing 53% of likely wisconsin voters said they were uncomfortable with a hillary clinton presidency and 6 3% were trump presidency. senator johnson, you have called trump's recently surfaced comments about women completely indefensible, but you have not said you do not endorse him. mr. feingold, you cannot endorse clinton until it was clear that she would be the nominee and still have not said whether you voted for her in the wisconsin primary. starting with senator johnson, do you stand 100% behind your party's nominee? 100%? yes or no and why? >> and red cross has the -- i'm

>> that was my error. ron johnson has the first answer. >> i've been very consistent in how i've been dealing with our republican nominee. i say i'm supporting the areas of agreement. on the big things, growing our economy, healing our economy, making sure it realizes full potential, strengthen the military, right now we're hammering out our military, defeating isis. securing our border. we have to commit ourselves to doing that. certainly appointing judges to the supreme court as opposed to super and certainly supporting someone who is going to change washington. that's certainly what i went there to do. so i've been supporting those areas of agreement, but it's been -- i've not been shy about disagreeing with our candidate, our nominee, and i'm not going to defend the indefensible, which truthfully is kind of a marked difference between myself and senator feingold, who must be about the last american who thinks that hillary clinton is trustworthy. and he is completely supporting

decades, a decade, decades worth of record of corruption, lying bald faced to the american public, dereliction of duty in benghazi, and grossly negligent and unbelievably reckless behavior in regards to america's top texas secrets really does show that she's completely disqualified from being president. so again, i will, as i've always done in business, i will search for areas of get. i'll support those areas of agreement. but i will holdho i also will work with whoever is president in terms of trying to solve these enormous challenges facing america. >> well, this is well beyond just trying to find areas of agreement. this is about deciding who is going to be the leader of the united states and probably the most significant person in the world. it's my view that supporting donald trump is completely irresponsible and that no one should really do it after they've seen the fact at that he simply isn't qualified to be

he has used divisiveness, saying horrible things about various ethnic groups and others in the country to get himself the nomination and it appears a lot of other inappropriate thing. this is no person to be a roll model for the people of our country, and i think it will be very frightening for the rest of the world if we elected donald trump. senator johnson has had a chance to follow the lead of the other senators, republican senators, his colleagues who areso tough re-election fights who have said no, enough is enough. i'm not going to support donald trump. i challenge him to do the same, because it's just wrong. this is one of these times when you have to be an american first, not a politician running for office. not a republican or a democrat, but an american who is worried about the future of our great country, and i've supported hillary clinton and bernie

of course i am confident, having worked with secretary clinton in a number of contexts, that she will be an excellent president. >> all right. let's go to the next question. >> this question is about guns. 49 people gunned down in orlando's pulse nightclub, the deadliest mass shooting in u.s. history. also in june, five dallas police officers killed in an ambush style shooting. people keep saying we need to do somethingo problem. a recent marquette law school poll found 85% of registered voters in wisconsin say they support closing the private gun sale loophole. mr. feingold, you've been out spoken about expanding background checks and have mentioned the possible use of executive order. senator johnson, you recently voted against a bill that would have allowed the attorney general to bar people in the federal terrorism watch list from buying guns and voted against another bill requiring

online. what is the one thing that you pledge to wisconsin tonight that you will do if elected to better protect our communities, yet still protect our constitutional rights? mr. feingold? >> well, having grown-up in wisconsin, i've always understood the importance of gun rights and the second amendment. i've always believed in it. i believe that people have a right to have guns for purposes of self-defense and hunting and all legitimate activities. i've never had any question in my mind. on this one, i follow the and the one thing i would make sure of is that we follow the common sense of the people of wisconsin who are demanding, even republican are his demanding overwhelmingly that we have background checks at gun shows and on the internet. so i would work extremely hard to make sure that actually occurred, that the votes were lined up. i know, there are republican senators who have been bipartisan on this issue. have cosponsored legislation to do this. senator johnson has not. senator johnson does not follow the common sense of the people

he follows the rules and the edicts of the nra. he will not buck the nra on any of this. even on something like background checks, which everybody knows is just a common sense thing that follows on the idea of background checks when you buy a gun at a shop. so this is one of those moments when the people of the state have to decide, do you wanted somebody who respects gun writes, but also believes in appropriate regulations, or somebody who will only do what the nra permits him to do? november 8th. >> senator johnson? >> there's absolutely new orleans doubt about the fact that additional gun control laws do not solve the problem. if they did, you'd see the murder rates in chicago a whole lot lower. they have extremely onerous gun control laws. simply doesn't work. i have backed provisions to increase enforcement of straw purchases. i think senator feingold also knows the vast majority of guns purchased in gun shows do go through background checks.

one of gun control. the problem is the fact that we have not achieved president obama's goal against isis. he laid out the goal two years ago in september 2014, and president obama said defeat it. we've not defeated isis. it's been more than two years. what we have to do, we have to lead. we have to heal our economy so we can strengthen our military. so we actually have the resources and then we have to get the leadership to accomplish that goal of defeating isis. as l inspire the type of loan wolf activity that we saw in orlando n san bernardino. as i travel around wisconsin, i ask if you've ever heard of samuel hoe ham he had hamza. very few do. we had the potential of an orlando sized terror attack in miami. he was trying to buy a fully automatic weapon on the black market. so criminals will be able to get guns. additional gun control is not the answer.

additional question coming up on isis. i believe the question was what would you do specifically about guns beyond isis? and you'll have 30 seconds for that. i supported care what man grassily's -- chairman grassily's gun control bill that would have increased approximate purchases of straw purchases. it would have increased enforcements of those people who violate the current background checks. it was my leadership to try to bridge the difference to keep people on t n the select eve list from getting guns, but the problem is the bills that were being offered it no chance to pass through the house. they were opposed by both the nra and the aclu. and i was trying to bridge that gap. if we had more time, i think i would have been successful. senator johnson is not trying to bridge the gap. the republican senator who sponsored that, senator collins, has specifically noted that it was his action in proposing an nra proposed idea on this that gutted the opportunity.

this problem, but because senator johnson has no independence for the national rifle association, despite partisan effort, failed. that is the actual story of what happened on that bill. >> next question. >> the recent figures show 91% of people across the country had health insurance. at the same time, premiums continue to rise. in wisconsin, premiums in the federal exchanges will go up by an average of 16% next what solutions do you have to reduce insurance costs? first of all, you are way under stating the problem with obama care. this year is the lowest percentage increase. we had really got hit in the first year. manhattan institute conducted a study after obama care's implementation and the lowest price increase of those six demographic groups is 1.8 times. the highest three times. if you're paying $1 million per

paying 180 or 300. obama care has been an unmitigated disaster. i was at an interview yesterday and one asked me, would you turn back the clock and go back to where we were? well, when premiums have doubled and tripled, in order to go back where premiums are now to feel that a third what have they are today because of obama care, absolutely i'd go back. and we would go back and we'd allow states to continue to regulate. i'd eliminate the individual mandate. i would allow individuals to purchase across state lines. i would reestablish high risk p the senator feingold, who is proud of his vote, said he knew exactly what was in the law. said there's nothing in oh bam care that would prevent you from keeping your healthcare plan, and yet obama care eliminated the high risk pools that actually worked here in wisconsin. solo bama care is a massive consumer fraud. if you like your healthcare plan, if you like your doctor, you can keep them. premiums will decline by as much as $2,500 per family. those were the three promises. those were lies. it never occurred, and so we've

actually put the patients in control, a little freedom of choice is what would actually work. >> mr. feingold? >> well, the fraud here actually is pretending that these problems didn't exist before the affordable care act, and also pretending that the affordable care act didn't make real progress. yes, senator johnson was very straightforward there. he said he'd take back the clock and take back all the things that have been accomplished. that means 20 million people who have been covered under the at fordable care act would lose 20 million people. that's not just important for those people. it's important for the hospitals and others who no longer have to see these people as charity cases and expensive cases. i've been told by hospitals in monroe, wisconsin hospital association, by patients and others that this is a major step forward. i've heard stories over the years of people who were blocked, people with cancer and other issues. they couldn't get insurance because of the prohibition on preexisting conditions. in other words, the fact that

getting insurance because of a preexisting condition. the affordable care act takes care of that. he would remove that. there are all kinds of young people all over this state who can stay on their parents' policy now until they're 26. he'd get rid of that. there are people with mental health issues, opiate addiction issues that are very serious and they are now covered because of the affordable care act. so it's not perfect, and believe me, i agree, the deductibles and others have got to come back. we need to act, and if i h senator from the state, i'd actually act on this instead of defending deductibles, as senator johnson recently did on a radio interview. >> and we have been hearing from citizens on this topic, so it takes us now to mike murad of wl u.k. at the social media desk. >> mr. feingold, i want to ask you first, some of the people are saying that it was put in place too quickly. if you had to keep one part of obama care and dump one part,

side that you have to do. >> you want me to start? >> mr. feingold please? >> i'd get rid of the cadillac tax. i don't think it makes sense. it was something i opposed at the time. it affects perfectly legitimate policies and it's one of those things that i think would be a beginning step to improve it. we need bipartisan efforts to try to change this bill. there are other problems as well such as the so-called family glitch. that means that somebody gets evaluated ads afternoon individual for the affordabl where they have a family. that doesn't make any sense. and you feel ink we need to accelerate our efforts to it actually, as i said a minute ago, make sure that the premium and his deductible its are under control. that means actually making signing up on the exchanges more affordable. the more people that sign up on those exchanges, the better it is for the private insurance companies. these insurance companies have indicated that they have dropped out, in some cases, or are thinking of dropping out, because the mix of people that

people who tend to be sicker as opposed to healthier. the more people that are covered, as has been done under at fordable care act, the better possibility that those who remain and buy the private insurance will be a better mix, and it will allow them to make the appropriate profit they need to make in order for this to make sense. so all of these are bipartisan things. i am going to try to work on a bipartisan basis if i'm elected. senator johnson won't. he's obsessed with getting rid of it. he filed a lawsuit, a frivolous lawsuit here in green bay. it was thrown out here and thrown out in the 7th circuit courts, because he is litigating rather than trying to work with other members of the senate to try to say, how can we make this better. >> senator? >> certainly one thing i would keep is allow young adults to the age of 26 to stay on their parents 57 plan. that really is good in terms of our insurance carriers. the thing i'd definitely eliminate would be the federal definition of healthcare. that is what has driven premiums through the roof. again, let me state, the promises, if you like your healthcare plan, if you like

premiums decline by up to $2,500 per year per family. all of those things have the not come true. premiums have skyrocketed. senator feingold said the healthcare law isn't as bad ads people are pretending it was. i tell you what, janice fe niman whose premiums went to $780 a month had to quit a part-time job. she's a mother. she had to quick a part-time job to work full time, because her premiums went from $500 $1,200 per month. millions of americans lost their healthcare. thousands of wisconsinites. you knew that was going to happen. you had to know. you said you know it's in there. yet you promised people that wouldn't happen. these networks have been narrowing, they're losing access to doctors they know and that they trusted. so the fact of the matter is, prior to obama care in wisconsin, 09% of wisconsinites were covered by insurance.

are covered by insurance. it hasn't had an impact, other than people lost healthcare they could afford, losing access to doctors, and premiums have doubled and trip and would that's because of people like senator feingold pass this go law. >> you're the out of time. >> he lied -- >> we'll go to the next question now. i know we'd like to stay on this topic a long time, because it affects so many people, but we also have some other important remember topic. chris schuler of wfrv. >> senator johnson, we're going start talking about isis and tonight u.s. troops are in iraq advising iraqi forces as they prepare to recapture months all from ice us fighters. news broke just a couple hours about two milwaukee men who have now been charged with trying to help isis. the connection obvious, terrorism and isis. a recent pew research poll shows 80% of people questioned say that terrorism is their for concern, but for this question tonight, let's focus on isis overseas. you've both served on

you have similar backgrounds, yet very different solutions to deal with this threat. so tonight, starting with you, senator johnson, fell us about your -- tell us about your specific plans for shutting isis down in the middle east to keep america safe. >> well, solution first of all, stop hiring out our military. that's happening now under sequestration and the fact the democrats always insist on more domestic spending before they're willing to agree to funding the military the way we should. america has to lead. ias representative of the united nations general assembly for the second time and when i was in new york, i was meeting with foreign ministers, ambassadors of delegations of the gulf states. they're begging for american leadership. we don't need to provide massive amounts of troops. we need to lead. we need to provide the air cover. we need to provide things like no-fly zones. but america has to lead. they're beg fog our leadership and we have not been doing so. senator feingold says he has a plan. the problem is it's president

john brennan said despite our efforts, isis remains a formidable, resilient, and largely cohesive enemy and we have not reduced their terrorist capabilities and the global reach. that's pretty sad after two years. that's senator feingold's plan. even worse, he voted against the very elements in the plan. eleven times as u.s. senator. he voted against authorizing the finest along us, he voted against the intelligence gathering toolst it's part of his plan when he's the only senator doing so. he also wanted to goes down guantanamo bay. he was the first senator johnson an tore call for troop withdrawal from iraq, which was a strategic blunder. isis derives from the actions of what was a thoroughly defeated al-qaida in iraq. >> mr. feingold? >> well, i think the first thing to say is to recognize that a group like isis did cannot be allowed to continue to exist. this isn't a time for accusations and listing things

time that have nothing to do with it. this is beyond politics. this should be when we talk to each other as friends and try to figure out, what are we going to do to destroy this organization? what you heard from senator johnson was no plan the at all. i specifically believe there are several things we need to do and do more intensively. first of all, we have to knock off their leaders. we have to kill them. there is a special force starting that. they got the number two guy they think recently at isis. but that needs to be intensifi you have to increase human intelligence. spies in the region. that i have always supported. and frankly, senator johnson, the chairman of the homeland security committee, hasn't lifted a finger to increase those resources. recently, there was a tragedy where we didn't have the right information and killed some syrian troops because we didn't have the right information. we need that information. we have to specifically cut off their oil supply. this is how they create this caliphate, by creating and producing oil and transporting it. we have to cut off their

department has done. i have actually served on the intelligence hit andy for five years and worked on that. we have to make sure they can't get their arms through the turkish border. and we have to be tough on the saudis, because the saudis are our friends in some cases, but in some cases they're exporting a radical idea of islam that is rally calizeing muslims around the world. in addition to that, we have to increase the resources -- >> your time is up. >> these are the elements of an actual time. >> we'll move on milbourn. >> well let's move in domestically. we've all seen videos that have shown us police shootings of afternoon am men. several of those incidents have led to public demonstrations, some of them violent, like one in milwaukee. research by gallup and by pew and by others indicate distrust of the justice system. police leaders like green bay's chief recently acknowledging the deterioration of police community relations around the country. and just within the last 24 hours, the u.s. justice department pledging to under

force boy police officers. starting with you, mr. feingold, what could you, in your role as a u.s. senator do, to rebuild the trust in our communities? and please be specific. well, first of all, we have to recognize that nobody wants to be in this position. the african-americans i met with in sherman park the other day feel very uncomfortable with a lot of their police he know scouterrers. many friends of mine are police officers who feel uncomfortable and worried when they leave their home to g day. it can be a scary time. so we have toncrease the communication and the contact. how do you do that specifically? community policing. we need to reinvigorate the funding for community policing that was started in 1994 and was very beneficial to communities so people know each other, so that people in the neighborhood know the employers. but that's not enough. there is a problem with institutional bias. we have to address the fact that some of our communities don't have the normal elements that you would expect of a community.

public schools. we have to have the police officers in the community. we have to stop discrimination in lending for housing. we have to make sure that there are actually businesses in the neighborhood. it has to be a real neighborhood where people get to know each other and protect each other and care about each other. the problem here is that there's not enough contact. there shouldn't just be a presence in sherman park in milwaukee at the time of a tragedy. there should be a presence there all the time. should go out and listen to the people in those communities on a regular basis, not just at re-election time, but throughout one's term so that you can constantly be part of the effort to make sure that this tension is reduced. >> senator? >> you need to be involved, and certainly one of the things i've done is i've been involved in the community. i've shown up. i've done far more than just showing up and talk and go laying out a plan that basically calls for more government, more spending, more taxes.

acted, and one thing i'm very proud of, probably the most heart warming thing i've done is my involvement with the joseph project. as i traveled around the state of wisconsin, there's not one manufacturer that can hire enough people. not one. yet you have this high level of unemployment. i've been racking my brain for these six years. how can we make those connections? how can we make connections with people generally seeking to turn their lives around? they want to seek that opportunity when the opportunities exist? we hit on a formula using greater pra christ with pastor jerome smith who identifies people in that situation, formerly incarcerated, and we go in with con stitch went services for one week, five days, three hours each day. we provide soft skills training, interview skills training, and then we set them up with interviews. 20 wonderful companies are hiring people from the joseph project with incredibly high retention rate. it's transforming people's lives. let me give you a couple quotes.

pikana says it's like a family. one of the participants said, my 89-year-old -- 9-year-old daughter is finally proud of me. another one says my parents are profoundly proud of me. what you do, you actually go in, you engage, you act, and you turn people's lives around one person at a time. >> thank you, senator. >> that's what actually works. >> stacy? >> the united states is the only industrialized nation without national paid family leave, according to poe lit i fact. out of 41 countries examined, the smallest amount of paid leave required, with the exception of the united states, is about two months. on the state level, only a handful of states have paid family leave for a birth, an adoption, or to tend to your medical issues or those of an immediate family member. wisconsin is not one of them. should the u.s. join other developed countries in mandating paid family leave and f so, for what length of time? we'll begin with you, senator

problems, whether it's our debt and deficit, whether it's strengthening our military, whether it's providing those kind of opportunities, folks in the inner cities, economic growth, the three things, from my standpoint, that are harming economic growth are the massive over regulation of the government which costs about $2 trillion per year. i realize we're getting immune to these massive numbers, but that's divided by household, that's $14,800 per household complying with federal regulation. this would be another federal regulation that would increase the cost to employers. it's one of the reasons wages have stagnated. i was talking to a wisconsin paper manufacturer. just four regulations issued by this president is costing his business the equivalent of $12,000 per year per employee. again, paid family leave mandated by the federal government would increase the cost of those employers not allowing them to have money to increase wages and benefits. so the question i would ask all wisconsinites, would you rather have that 12,000 or $14,000 cost

feeding a massive government bureaucracy or providing for your familiarally? the nominee of the republican party here has offered a proposal that would provide tax credits. that's leaving money in taxpayer's money n their pocket. that's something i could support. the main difference between senator feingold and i, i would to build a private sector, leave more money in your pocket. senator fine golds wants to grow government. when you grow government, that's going to require increased taxes. that is why he voted for tax increases testimony t >> mr. feingold? >> here's the way we see the difference about getting around the state and listening to people. i've been to all 72 counties last year and all 7 # counties this year. and what is people tell me is they're having a heck of a time making ends meet and making it work at work, because of this problem with a failure of the economy to keep up with wage. so people want the minimum wage raised, but they also want family leave, paid family leave. i believe it should be 12 weeks.

join the other countries in the world that do this. this is good not only for the family, for the child that's going to get some time with the parents. it's also good for the business, because the business is saying, we value you. we want you to have a good family life and it's going to make that person more likely to stay with that business. it really is a shame that instead of siding with the families of this state that are making this request, senator johnson will only go position that is oriented to the corporate view. this is the view of the people of the state overwhelmingly supporting family and medical leave. it is a reasonable request. it is not some kind of extreme regulation. it's done in so many other places and it certainly has not brought those economies down it. it's time we basically join the modern world and respect what parenting is and what it means to be able to bond with a child. senator johnson is not responding to that. he just responds to the big

don't want him to do this. >> next question, mike kemmeter? >> the future of social security is an ongoing issue. federal projections show if nothing is done, the trust fund will be exhausted between 2029 and 2034. the retirement age is gradually rising to 67. starting with mr. feingold, what should the age be and what changes would you make to ensure that the social security fund remains solvent? >> well, the first thing we have to say is that social security is a foundationor people's lives and existence. for many peel, it's all they have. for other people, it might that be and a small pension or something else, but it's crucial. and that's why i've always supported social security as a public program. i've never tried to suggest that there should be privatization or some other technique that could threaten those accounts. senator johnson, on the other hand, has called it a ponzi scheme, like it doesn't actually pay out, but it does. and he has specifically advocated george bush's idea of

that's privatization. that is about the scariest thing. i've been to round tables in green bay and around the state. when they hear this idea of private accounts, it makes them very concerned. what's the answer? well, first of all, the fund is not going for vote toll. that's a scare tactic. but one thing that would really help is make sure people pay their fair share on fica. right now, it cuts off at 118 thou. lebron games could play more. he's having a great year athletically and financially. he mechanics of congress like senator johnson make 175,000. wrecked at least raise it to that level. that would have an enormous impact on a system where remember, wealthy people get social security. i'm not proposing we change that. i don't want to be viewed as a welfare program, but it's only reasonable that people would pay their fair share, and cutting it off at 118,000 is simply not fair. this would help make it solvent and it's a serious specific proposal that avoid this terrible idea that senator johnson supports of private accounts and privatization.

>> to solve any problem, you have to first admit you have one. you have to properly define it. the fact of the matter is the trust fund holds 2.8 billion dollars of u.s. government bonds, which is an asset to the trust fund, but liability to the bottom line. that is because people like senator feingold wouldn't give them a chance to actually invest those surplus funds in real assets. he voted no. he voted not to protect the social security trust fund. he also voted to tax social security benefits. he also v benefits to people who have come to this country illegally. those actions don't save social security. i want to save social security. so let's talk about how you do that. first of all, i understand the enormous problem. over the next 30 years, social security will pay out about $14 trillion more in benefits than it takes in the payroll tax. that's an enormous deficit. the way to solve and save social security and medicare and solve all these other problems is economic growth. we have been growing at such a

little under 2%, when historically the american economy as grown at 3.2%. the difference is enormous. you go from 2% to 3% economic growth. that's $14 trillion of additional economic activity over ten years. 2 to 4% is $29 trillion. that solves and fixes social security. another little fact on, that even with the meager economic growth we've had since 2009. federal revenue has increased by 1.9 revenue. growing the economy, competitive tax system and utilize our god-given energy resource. >> let's go over to the social media desk, mike murad. >> one subject we haven't talked about is energy. a tweet we gotta while ago. what will you do as a senator, feingold and johnson, to move us toward more renewable energy and combat climate change? basically, my question is what do you see as the most important energy source of the future and that's one thing that can be done to help us get there? senator john snow.

innovative find of americans, hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling, we finally are energy independent. let's utilize those resources. president obama when he was running as a candidate said because of his policies that senator feingold reports, electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket. that is very bad for wisconsin workers. that makes wisconsin workers uncompetitive in the global market. and so from my standpoint, the best thing to do is utilize those god-given resources so we can have a strong economy so we can actually pollution controls. that's really the solution and by the way, i'm for all of the above energy strategy. not opposed to some government funding for catalysts and wind and solar, those types of things to fund basic science and research, but in the end, it's got to be market based, because if it's not market based, as president obama says, as senator feingold would report, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket and that's not good for the economy, and again, we really have got to

>> there actually is an area of agreement here. ill i believe in an all of the above approach to energy, but you have to put in here to do something about climate change. this is a very serious problem. i grew much this state. the climate has changed in this state in my lifetime. it's a frightening project. senator johnson doesn't see it that way, and in fact, the scientists around the world overwhelmingly believe this is related to man's activity, manmade climate change. senator johnson says sun spots, and he recent rememberly said that the climate really hasn't warmed up in the last few years, but in fact, it was indicated the other day this past july was the warmest month ever in the history of recording these things. so we have to look and focus on alternatives. and one of the answers is to make sure we look at solar and wind, and the president's clean power plant allows the states the ability to use flexibility. we can continue to use coal, but with we're going tonight to do more solar and we're going to want to do more wind and we're

resources, both because it creates jobs and because it's going to reduce carbon emission. and this has a very positive elements as well, because even the heavy truck industry recently cut a deal with the obama administration. they say, we want to do something different here. they agreed to lower their emissions over the next 20 years, which will have a significant impacted on carbon emissions, because they think they can sell more cars that way. so this isn't just about trying to figure out what to do about energy, which is terribly important, and the climate. it's also about the economy. senator johso climate change. there's no chance [indiscernible] >> the next question goes to chris schuler. >> we're going to talk about defense spending now. according to the office of economic adjustment, defense spending in wisconsin hit the 2.$6 billion the 2414, creating 19,000 jobs in the state. but the potential follow a reduction in funding in the years ahead remains due to something called sequestration. as you are well aware, it's

at federal agencies exceed set caps passed by the budget control act back in 2011 and still law through 2021. so both presidential candidates, they've called on ending sequestration for the department of defense, saying the military right now is simply too important. so where do each of you stand on this? i know senator johnson, i know you voted against the initial act. has your opinion changed? and mr. feingold, we're going to start with you. do you support more funding for >> i think we've got to continue funding the military very strongly. we can't afford n this difficult time around the world, to cut out the military in any fund amennal way. we have to make sure we spend the money in a way that relates to the threats. and so what you have to do is tailor the spending to the kinds of threats like isis and al-qaida and other threats that may emerge around the world. so we don't necessarily spend it in the exact same way. and you also have to find places where money isn't being spent wisely, so it can be spent wisely.

federal fitness plan, a plan with 35 provisions that says here are some things we can do to save money and it could be used for other purposes in the military. for example, we have a programs tanks. some 1,000 an programs thanks. but only about 300 of them need to be retrofitted, aboarding to the military. it continues because of the corporate reports that support it. so what we need to do is be smart, take a close look at what is wasteful, but i don't po the military cross the board. what i support is making sure the money is spent wisely and is actually related to the problems that exist around the world. and i think that this is a golden opportunity, given the enormous threat of these terrorist groups, to also consider whether we fund the intelligence community to a greater degree. we should look at these as combined. look at the defense bill here and the intelligence bureau. it doesn't make sense, because they work together. i've seen that in my work in the senator johnson at and when i had the ability to work for the

these people work hand in hand. >> your time is up, senator. senator johnson? >> well, senator feingold, you would think he was a defense hawk. defense hawks don't vote against the authorization for the military eleven times out of 18 years. that's not support of the military. i support the military. i've always voted for the national defense authorization act, because i believe defense of this nation is the top priority of government. in the 18 name rated powers dealing with defense of this nation. of course we have to resource it. ied control act, because of defense sequestration. i thought that was the craziest policy. i knew that would put our nation, our homeland at risk, and it has. now our military is being hollowed out. the problem we have is senator feingold's party in the senate consistently blocks republicans when we try and increase defense spending, because they always ask for more domestic spending in other programs, programs that oftentimes don't work or exacerbate the problem. so what we need to do is we

top priority. we actually have to bring things like defense appropriation bills to the floor of the senate for thoughtful consideration. we should definitely audit the fed. there is a no way i should ever say the defense department is efficient at spending money. government is not efficient. it's not effective. but we have to fund the top priority of the government if we're going to keep the nation and have the resource to project our leadership and values around the world, and right now we don't have those resource. >> while we're on the subject of the military, let's go to tom milbourn. military, you're also talking about its people, and regarding the medical care that veterans receive. in the va's own most recent survey last year, more than 30% of veterans receiving care say they don't believe the va hospitals or medical centers are giving them high quality care. nearly half say they weren't prepared to handle their own care after discharge. and these are the veterans who need the care the most. 95% of veterans seeking care since 2001 served in a combat zone.

advertising. mr. feingold, you've said more federal money may be a solution. senator johnson first. with specific examples, how do you propose improving the care some. >> i have supported among the finest among us the choice to it access private care when it's too far away or the wait times are too long. that's what i've support. what i've also done is i've acted. when i first found out about the problems of the tomorrow an va medical center, i had become chairman of government security, homeland affairs. i immediately act. investigation n three months we uncovered and made public more information than the office of the inspector did in three years of their investigation. the report that they buried, i've been giving to senator baldwin. because of my investigation, because we have hearings, because of our reports, we've actually held those people accounted annual. the doctor called candy man is gone. he's fired. so is his nurse practitioner. so is the executive director that turned a blind eye to those abuses. he's also fired. and the inspector general who

lives of the typest among us, retired under our pressure. senator feingold, he or his office was repeatedly advising us as far back as 2008 or 2009. i have eight veterans serve okay my staff, 12010 years total service. we take these things very siriusly. i'm not quite sure why senator feingold or his staff didn't raise at harm bells when they got hem memos hand-delivered to senator feingold or given to republicans of senator feingold playingut describing candy man, calling it candy land. nothing happened in 2008 and 2009. is that simply because the staff didn't care or senator feingold didn't? >> a sad moment from the senator wisconsin says something he knows for sure is not true. it was testimony before his committee that made it very clear that my office never received anything of the kind. and in fact, this tragedy occurred five years later, several years later under senator johnson's watch. so this is a sad moment when

because he's a politician who is trying to get reelect. it's awful. but what this is about is making sure that our veterans get the care they need, that they get it quickly, that they can get it near where they live or if they have to travel, that it's not too onerous, and they don't have to wait forever for an appointment. that's what it's about. well, i've been all over the state, all 672 couchees, last year and year. whenever i meet a veteran i ask them, how do you feel about your care? i really like t i really doctor. one man came up and said, see these glasses? i got them in milwaukee at the va. so there are problems and they need to be improved, but i guarantee you most of the veterans in this state want to make sure that this program continues as a federally guaranteed program and by the way, i didn't wait until my fifth year in office to start acting on veterans issues. i was responsible for new healthcare clinics in sawyer county, in ice lake, in new

lacrosse. i got that done. i listened people in the counties who said, senator, can you do that? i did that throughout my time in the senate, mott just when it turned out that my own office had dropped the ball. >> i'm going to invoke that moderator's privilege for ask you what tom asked you, which is what will you do moving forward? and i'll start with senator johnson. >> well, again, you need to make sure it has adequate funding. first and foremost, and then i am totally supportive of choice for veterans. allow them access to sector healthcare that's close to them. the daughter of thomas berry who died of neglect at toma, had she known about these things, she told me, she said i never would have taken my dad there. she comes from marshfield. they have excellent care there. it's about the choice program. the va has not particularly embraced it. got a lot of problems. good thing there's a pilot program. we have to improve the choice program. >> here is the senator talking about choice programs and general programs. there are very specific things you can do.

other day who said i want to talk to you about the problem with when you go down to the va. you go to your doctor and he says, or she says, you need to see a specialist. apparently you've got to go through some bureaucracy to get that specialist. i don't think it should be that way. i think if the doctor who is qualified there says you need to see a specialist, we should cut that red tape out and make sure it happens, but we should do it in the context of the va as a public program, not a profit source for other people. >> next question. stacy? >> in the entire uw system, 3.5% of students borrow money with the average debt of graduation for those students reaching over $30,000, according to poplitei fact. and nationally, from 2004 to 2014, the average debt at graduation rose at more than twice the rate of inflation. the federal reserve said student loan debt at 1.$2 trillion has surpassed credit card debt,

purchasing homes, starting families, investing in small businesses, or retiring from the workforce. what is the role of the federal government and what will do you if elected to ensure that higher education is more affordable and more accessible? we begin with you, mr. feingold. >> well, as i've gone to the counties and asked people their concerns and they tell me that it is affording their milleddal income and working class lives. that's the top thing i hear overall. but the most commonly mentioned thing in that context is the cost of student loans. and the problem it creates for the family, but also for the community, because if people have these huge loans, they can't buy a house and that affects the entire community. so we do need to continue the federal role. we need the federal student loan program. senator johnson has said it never should have been created. there's a very simple piece of legislation that would help. senator elizabeth warren has a bill that would say, you should be able to renegotiate your student loan like you can a mortgage.

johnson voted against it. where is the concern about the terrible position that these young people are being placed in? i think it's a denial of the american dream. another thing we can do is right now, under the law that nobody has been bothering to change in the last few years, you can have a profit for the federal government from the student loans. they can use the money for whatever else. you know, for these tax loopholes that senator johnson likes to vote for for the oil and depletion allowance. they can use it for that. i think that should be prohibited remember i think if the federaov that money should be poured back into making student loans more affordable. so these are specific things we can do, and unfortunately, senator johnson thinks young people, he's said specifically that young people think it's free money. no, they don't. they know what interest is and they are very worried about this. >> senator? >> the cost of college has increased at 2.6 times rate of inflation since the midsection and i think everybody has to ask themselves, what in the world is so different about what colleges

increase by that level? well, senator feingold is actually exhibit a of how that happens when he basically charged $8,000 per lecture as a lecturer at stanford university. when colleges have that much money, that's what causes these unother ford ability of college. we've got to bosh productivity gains into college. we have to address the affordability issue. the fact of the matter is we already have 38 different programs that lower payments 10 to 20% of discretionary income. after 10 or 20 years. gao did a study of 07% of people who default on the student loans in 2012. they had no idea these programs exist. so we have these programs right on my website to make sure the students are aware of what's already existing as opposed to creating a whole new federal government program. senator warren's program would cost $50 billion. that's adding to the deficit. and that's something we haven't even talked about. over the next 30 years, our

$103 trillion. senator feingold had four opportunities to vote for a balanced budget amendments in the 90's. four times. twice he could have been the yes vote to make that pass the senate. since he voted no on that control, our debt has increased by $14 trillion. i think senator feingold ought to be held accountable for that, because that also does not particularly help students. >> they told us that we have about 30 seconds that each of you could have one more kick at this. >> i think you made a good senator johnson describes is one where he says, you know, it's just too bad about these student loans. it's too bad you have all this debt. i'm not going to do anything about it. he didn't just suggest a single specific thing to relieve the burden on these students right now. i did. if you want to represent the people of wisconsin, you need to really get serious about trying to make sure these loans are affordable. that needs to happen now. not in some kind of fantasy

entire universe system. they ned help now. >> senator johnson an officer. >> i was a leader making sure perkins loans were extended another year, working with lamar alexander. i extended the student loan certainly act that lowered interest rates. i don't have enough minutes in this debate to really refute all the false charges senator feingold has hermitaged at mer -- hurled at me her. the fact of the matter is i support whoever wants to have a college education. i want to make sure that every student has the opportunity to build a good life for themselves or it's all a matter of how do you make college more affordable, and we have to really address that issue honestly. >> thank you. and this time has gone far too quickly. it is time now for your closing statements, and by the coin flip, russ feingold, you are first. >> well, first, thanks to with wisconsin broadcasters for doing this. you know, it's been a tremendous privilege to have a chance to go around the state the last two careers and her people's concerns best of your recollection also see the amazing innovation, things like the water hub in milwaukee.

freshwater. then you come up here to green bay. i can't stop eating the mozzarella that you get at the quik trip. this is a wonderful company. you go over to chippawa falls and you see machine tool shop. this is a fascinating company that's taking old machines and remanufacturerring them and being able to sell those cheaper than some of the new machines. so this is the good news. and there's a lot of it. but there's also the problem, the problem that middle income and working families are not able to make ends mri top are doing extremely well. wall street is at the highest level it's ever been, and we have lower unemployment. so they're saying where's the fairness? they want an increase not the the minimum wage. they want family medical leave. they want pharmaceutical medicine to be affordable. they want student loan problem to be addressed, not in a theoretical way, but in a real way. they don't want jobs shipped overseas, such as the that knows pacific partnership. senator johnson thinks these agreements are the greatest thing since sliced bread. they're not.

manufacturing jobs over the years. so i think the people of this state deserve a senator who is actually going to vote with them instead of voting with the corporations and the billionaires virtually every time. they don't have a shot if that's the matchup. it would be different with me. i would stand with the people of this state, and if you elect me, that's exactly what i'll do. senator? >> as i've traveled around the state, the number one thing people come up and say to me is you're in our prayers. i can't tell you how much i appreciate that. i can't tell you how much we feel those prayers. it gives it me a fair amount of hope. the next most common thing is they say, why don't you guys just get along and get something done? that's exactly what i've done. right out of the blocks, working with senators franken and goal and clove assure, making sure we get waivers for the stillwater bridge and it's nearing completion. as chairman of the homeland security affairs, by finding areas of agreement that unify us. i've actually accomplish things. we passed 83 pieces of

committee. 28 have been signed into law. you don't do that by being a partisan. you do that by using outsider business person's approach who's got something done. i've done what they asked me to do. this election is a stark contrast between two individuals. senator feingold, for 34 years, was a career politician. doesn't have a whole lot to show for it. i know he's paid about $3 million by taxpayers. wasn't a very good return on their investment. during that same 34 years, i helped start, build, successful wisconsin family business that has provided hundreds of westites good paying jobs. should have these folks are with me still over 30 years. i built that company. we export products. i understand what it takes to grow a business. i understand how hard business is. and i understand how much harder the federal government makes it. what i want to do is i want to grow and be private sector where long-term self-sustained jobs are actually created so that wisconsinites can keep more of

senator feingold will have a plan for everything, but the plan involves growing government, and i hope people understand that government is inefficient, ineffective. it's broken. it's dysfunctional. and when it grows, your freedoms recede and they're going to remand more of your hard earned dollars. there's the difference of this campaign. i'm here because i want to solve these problems. i've got a record of doing so. i'm asking for your support. i'm asking for your vote. yes, panelists, thank you. we hope you've inspired people to get to the polls and some polls in wisconsin will be open from 7:00 a.m. until 8:00 p.m. you can register to vote on election day and you must show photo identification. here is a website to help you. it's myvote.wi.gov. you'll find information on correct ids and how to get one in advance election day.

polling place, and a preview of what's on the ballot. again, that's myvote.wi.gov. and remember, this election includes more than the presidential and senate races. there are many decisions to be made about the house of representatives, the state assembly and senate, plus some county offices. with that, i thank you all for joining us tonight. thank you for joining us for tonight's debate, an opportunity for wisconsin citizens to hear from the leading senate candidates in a non-partisan forum. this debate has been sponsored by our wba foundation through a grand from the wisconsin association of independent colleges and universities. our sincere thanks to wisconsin radio and television stations who worked together to produce and air this broadcast. to the candidates, our moderator, and our panelists. election day is tuesday, november 8th. exercise your right as an american and vote. as always, member stations will

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