with it. >> yeah. but beyond this technicalities there's fragility in the economic system today, massive fragility. massive. more than ever before. in 2007, when i finished "the black swan", we had too much debt. five times what we should be having in the western world. debt to gdp. and at the same time, forecasting degraded. your ability for the future has degraded because of the internet reaction. it's very hard because of feedback loops. the chinese stopped buying computers, all right. then suddenly the computer industry suffers and places collapse. too much interactions. we didn't have that before. coming from globalization and the internet. so we have two things. the gradation of our ability to forecast to see the future coupled with debt. when you have debt you need to

be very accurate in your forecasting. if you make a mistake, you're in trouble with debt. so we had the rise of debt, rise of fragility. the system was very unstable. what has happened since, transformation, debt, mistake between two adults into what? a liability for future generations. government debt. you see, private debt can collapse. a person goes bankrupt. the lender suffers. >> then that person is out. >> then the lender is out. that's it and then we move -- >> but when it's government debt -- >> it stays. >> let's talk about greece for a minute. a trillion dollar rescue package for greece and the euro itself this week by the european central bank and international monetary fund. it seemed to relieve the markets for a couple of days. but then the worries came back. >> well, i mean, the worries are right to come back because what we're doing is putting is a lot of novocaine on a decaying jaw.

and then things spreading. the jaw is rotting. you don't put novocaine. you have to do surgery. people are afraid of surgery. but greece in a way is good news and let me tell you why. what we're learning is that the solution is belt tightening. okay. but no government will do it to itself to its own people. so the greeks would not do their own belt tightening. the germans and the imf are doing it for them. it looks like we have the same problem here that we unfortunately don't have anybody bullying us into belt tightening. so the greeks may be better off than other people simply because they've got someone bullying them. >> what is it going to take to get the fiscal house in order? >> we need the government to stop spending. that stimulus idea didn't work very well. it's making us more -- it's making us -- when you can't see

the future, you don't borrow. it's making us more vulnerable to forecast error from the office of management and budget. washington has a couple of years of identifying the problem. you take the bull by the horn. they have not done it. now they're starting to worry about it. >> let me switch gears for a minute, nassim. you've been out of the public eye almost a year now. we haven't seen you. on your blog you say you're bored with finance. >> yes. >> but you're interested in it now. >> no. i'm doing my duty, okay. i identified fragility before, and i have the solution, you know, to help the society. of i have ten steps to make society more robust to my black swan, these dangerous events. and it's my duty to come make my point and then disappear. >> where do you put your money, then? >> i myself put it in investments you understand.

>> gold, hard assets. >> hard asset or the bakery for example. you can invest in a bakery, see what's in there. the stock market to me is hype. i don't know what's behind the hype. >> it's great to have you on the program. we so appreciate it. really great insights. nassim taleb joining us. up next on the "wall street journal report" -- >> let me ask you about your own road. you're the first african-american woman to head an s&p 100 game. one woman's amazing ride from poverty to the penthouse. my one-on-one with ursula burns. small business that's a family affair next up.

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mother in a housing project in new york city. i spoke with her recently. this remarkable woman talked to me about leadership, her company's business and how she sees america's economy. >> we are seeing signs of hope, which is probably the first time i've said publicly that statement in developing markets, russia, eurasia. brazi brazil, noticeable significant improvement in business there. europe i said is generally okay. it's not trailing the u.s. too far behind and they've been able to produce. xerox europe has been able to produce despite the downward pressure from the southern european countries. >> has the rise in commodities been a negative? does it have -- how much does it eat away? >> not a whole lot. the good news is that we have multiple sources. we're not a user of pure gold or steel. we don't -- we're not

significantly impacted by big swings there, which is very good. we do have some proprietary things that we use but thank goodness we are a major buyer of those things and they haven't frustrated a lot in the marketplace. >> you said in the meeting you expect 2010 earnings to come in high. >> we stabilized and there's upside. >> so if you have to pick the best performer around the world right now what would it be? >> business outsourcing in north america. business around the world everywhere, united states and everywhere. color, activity grew, pages grew. color was great. if you look at a region that was best probably russia and eurasia. >> you are the first african-american woman to head an s&p 100 company. can you tell us what role you think your race and gender played in your corporate climb? did it have a role? >> it absolutely did. if it didn't it would say ursula

had no role because i am my race and my gender. i am the black woman. i happen to be an engineer. there's a lot of things that make me up. but the two you can't avoid when you wake up every day if you saw my picture on the wall you can't avoid is that i'm a black person and a woman. i think it had a lot to do. the good news is i landed in a good place. if you would have seen me 30 years ago when i joined this company, i was a black young woman who was off the streets of new york city. i had an education thank goodness. but i had all the -- all of the -- all of the things that you would expect. >> you had the street smarts. >> so what i did was i landed in a place that that's what we want. they had to kind of smooth a little bit at the edges but didn't say, i want to make you like joe, so you got to figure out a way to act like joe, speak like joe. they said we hired you because you're smart and good and have innate inherent value with your difference. please don't come here and change. please work here. >> you were raised by a single

mom in new york city in a housing project. what lessons did you take away from that? how did that shape you and your leadership? >> i had the greatest mother in the world. she's been dead for a long time. she died very young. 49, when she was 49 years old. i was 24 years old. my brother and sister were around. there's one thing she said to me throughout my life and brother and sister as well. she said it over and over again and way before her time in two situations. she said to me, where you are is not who you are. and she said this and i thought in the beginning it was because we lived in some really bad places. we lived in the ghetto. and she said, basically, this is a neighborhood that when you look at it visually looks horrible. people are poor and not only poor in financial but some of them are poor in spirit and soul. that's not where you have to be. and she also said, one day you're going to make it to

whatever. she never -- ceos was not in her vocabulary. and when you get there, remember that just because you're there doesn't mean that you're -- just because you're at some exalted place you're not exalted. you have to be exalted to be exalted, not just be in a place. this is a woman who is poor, single mother, high school education, pretty basic. she was very, very, very clear about certain things. she also said work hard. education for her -- she didn't care whether you went to school to study history and became a janitor. education was for her about opening your mind to think about things that are complex. >> think about them differently. >> think about them differently. that's what it was. now it's significantly more about can i get a job after college, which it should be because it cost so much to go to college as you know. but for her it was more about being of value -- being a contributor and of value to the world, not about making a whole lot of money. >> my thanks to ursula burns.

ms. burns is just one of the people whose stories are part of my new book "the ten laws of enduring success." i hope you'll check it out. up next on the "wall street journal report" when downward dog is a family affair. we'll go to one small business with two generations of big ideas. ideas. find us on so heading to the doctor

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and the kids loved her. >> when you find something that you like and go with it. i think it's great that we're doing it together. >> the biggest thing i've worked on on myself is how to work with my daughter in this business. because there are times that i have to act as her boss, but then there are times that i have to act as her mother. >> thursday next week you need to sub. >> communication is very important. giving each other ideas. we stay really close to one another. i really looked at myself and where i want to be at and what i want to do. i thought if i eventually moved from there. >> our five-year goal is to expand nationally within the united states and have a children's school of yoga in every state throughout the country. i don't really judge the business on dollars.

because it's a yoga business i look at how many people, how many children we're helping. >> joining me is nell merlino of count me in a founder of microloans and behind the first take our daughters to workday. great to have you on the program. every time i see take your daughter to work i think of you. brilliant idea. how big a trend are small businesses run by mother/daughter pairs? why do you think we're seeing this now? >> what the conclusion i've come to -- because we see them almost every time we do one of our make a million dollar competitions they're there. it has to do with the fact that women only got the business credit in 1974 in their own names. i think you see more and more women in business, so it's logical mothers would include their daughters or daughters are including their mothers in their businesses. we're seeing both ways. >> how are women doing these days in the workforce? >> there are now more women employed than men in the workforce and in the business world we had extraordinary

positive results last year of women who entered a contest that we have. 59 of them grew their businesses by 60% in this economy and increased employment by 113%. so the ones that have something good to sell are doing well. the ones that are newer or are challenged are having a tough time. >> tell me where that tough time comes from. is it difficult for women, small business owners to grow their enterprises? how might having a family member involved impact that? and what are you seeing in terms of small business? >> what i'm seeing in terms of having a family member involved is the roles are defined. it works pretty well. if it slides around like a family relationship sometimes does, it can get tough and you can get into trouble. but if it's clear, everybody is doing what they're best at, that works. in terms of small business in general, i think one of the most challenging things right now is the availability of credit and capital. that's true for women and men. some are getting 90% sba

guaranteed loan. others are asked for a level of collateral and guarantee that is different and is sort of choking off some of the growth. i doubt that this is just happening to women. i think it's happening to women and men. >> let me get your take on the economic environment as it relates to this. does it make sense now to launch or to join a family friendly business? the daughter in our piece is just starting her career. >> i think it's a great time. you know, you got to start when you start. i think picking the absolute right time -- it depends on the business. but if you've got something that people want to buy, i would say get started. and if a family member has knowledge that you need and you trust them -- it can't just be that i'm starting a business and i've got to hire my family. because that doesn't necessarily -- they may not have the skills. if they've got the skill set and the interest and you trust them and they trust you, it could be wonderful. smr so i would say if you've got something people want to buy and you have got the energy to start a business -- because it's a tough climate to start it -- i

would go for it with your family. >> tell me about the climate. what's your advice for navigating family relationships and really relationships with business? is it tough to be both mom and boss? >> it can be. it can be. and you really do -- mom has to figure out what she's best at and give to the other folks. whether the daughter is a partner or she's an employee, you've got to trust that she knows what she's doing and not be telling her what to do all the time. and if it's the daughter who is the business and mom is working for you or is the partner, you've got to really respect each other and know that you each bring something to the business that's important, that you are better as a business together than you would be apart. >> great to have you on the program. thank you. we appreciate it. up next on the "wall street journal report" we'll look at the news this upcoming week that will have an impact on your money. as we take a break, take a look at how the stock market ended the week.

[ telephone rings ] [ ring ] [ "catch the wind" plays ] what is the sign of a good decision? in the world of personal finance, it's massmutual. find strength and stability in a company that's owned by its policyholders. ask your advisor or visit massmutual.com.

when someone gives blood, when a hand reaches out, that moment when heartbreak turns to hope, you're there through the american red cross. down the street, across the country, around the world, you help save the day, every day. your support truly matters. you can help today. visit redcross.org. for more on our show and our guests check out the website wsjr.cnbc.com. find a link to my blog investor agenda.cnbc.com. look at the stories in the week ahead that may move markets and impact your money. earnings season is winding down

but maenl companies are reporting for the second quarter. among them dow components home depot, walmart and hewlett-packard. retailers lowe's, target and staples also coming out. on tuesday a sign of the strength of the housing market when the government releases the closely watched housing starts report. also on tuesday, the producer price index will be released to tell us if there is inflation on the wholesale front. wednesday we get the tpi that measures consumer inflation. a busy week for economic data ahead. that's the show. next week i'll be in sin city. we'll have some surprises for you from las vegas. each week keep it right here where wall street meets main street. have a great week, everybody. i'll see you again next weekend.

coastal crisis. new environmental concerns this morning in the gulf as bp starts siphoning spilled oil out of the water. then, the volatile volcano in iceland causes more problems for travelers. the airports idle due to dangerous ash. and, virginia's last-minute victory on the lacrosse field. a tribute to a murdered teammate. >> i have the chills right now thinking about it. >> it's monday, may 17th. >> from abc news, this is "world news now." >> we're just talking about celebrities that we saw. you never know in new york or l.a. who you're going to see. i don't know why we ran that rant. i saw t.i. >> who you thought was? >> t.p. confused about that. >> i saw montel williams. >> wow. i wonder if they saw us and said, wow! >> in fact, i looked into montel's eyes, any recognition? he was clearly like, stop staring at me, crazy.

>> weirdo. all right, we'll move on. thanks for joining us on this monday. i'm jeremy hubbard. >> i'm vinita nair. more than three weeks after oil began leaking into the gulf of mexico, bp claims limited success in stopping the flow. >> federal officials say bp's latest attempt is not a solution. they're demanding the wellhead be permanently sealed and the oil cleaned. matt gutman reports now from louisiana. >> reporter: nearly four weeks and 4 million gallons later, finally a breakthrough. >> what we've done is submit a tool into the end of the roger to start to extract some of that flow. >> reporter: following a series of failures, deep sea robots succeeding in threading a six-inch tube into this gushing pipeline. bp officials say they're now siphoning some of the oil to a tanker on the surface through a mile-long pipeline. they won't say how much, only that up to 80% could be captured this way and they hope to increase the amount in the coming days. they caution this is a fragile arrangement and could still fail. >> it will take a little time.

we want to slowly optimize this and try to capture as much of the oil and gas as we can. >> reporter: the only way to cap it for good remains drilling a relief well. and that's two months away from completion, if it works. even as they celebrate the good news, scientists made a troubling discovery. people have been wondering all along where that oil was going. federal researchers say they found it under the surface. dropping these canisters thousands of feet down they discovered at least five massive plumes of oil, some ten miles long, three miles wide, hundreds of feet thick. >> this oil as you can see has depth. it's not only the size of manhattan in area, it's several hundred meters' depth. >> reporter: scientists say that oil is depleting the water of oxygen, potentially killing some of the sea life in the area. this is some of the oil researchers picked out near the slick. they say the entire area out there smells like this. which is a combination of benzene and tar. while bad weather on this

expansive sea are hampering cleanup efforts, mother nature in the form of bacteria that feast on the oil may save the day. >> there are a myriad of organisms that are designed to digest this oil. they're there for that express purpose. >> reporter: and while scientist vernon asper says this much oil underwater isn't natural, better there than in these marshlands. bp tells us even if that insertion tube works they're going to try the top kill. that entails injecting mud and cement into the wellhead, hoping to plug it shut. even then, they caution, that is a temporary solution. matt gutman, abc news, cocodrie, louisiana. homeland security janet napolitano and lamar mckay, ceo of bp, will be on capitol hill today. bp is under heavy political pressure as a result of the spill. a u.s. labor department official told "the financial times of london" the company has a

systematic safety problem at its oil refineries. dense clouds of ash spewing from iceland's volcano are choking the skies over britain and ireland again this morning. while airline travel resumes in london, larry jacobs reports on the repeated frustration. >> reporter: frustration again as air travel to much of the united kingdom ground to a screeching halt for the second time in weeks, all because of a volcano that's been dormant for nearly two centuries decided to make its presence felt. air space over parts of ireland, scotland and britain closed as a dense cloud of volcanic ash drifted across the region from iceland. >> nothing really that anybody can do. just have to wait. >> reporter: indications are the ash cloud is changing shape and moving southward toward london. as a precaution, europe's busiest airport, heathrow, has closed. although hopes are the shift in the no-fly zone will allow airports to the north in key cities like manchester and liverpool to reopen. >> if we get there, we get there. >> reporter: in april, for the bett p