so who's in control now, mayans? captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> business news from the capital region. this is "washington business report" with abc7 national correspondent rebecca cooper. >> thanks for j joining us for a look at business and finance here in the waington region. we were riveted by the historic three days of supreme court oral arguments challenenging the centerpiece of the obama presidency. it will be mont before we learn about the ruling but employers and employees want to know what is next.

the natitional federation of independent business -- the argument -- is i unconstitutional to force citizens? >> the lawsuit was filed a couple of years ago. it has taken a lot of time to get to the supreme court of ththe united states. the case is now in their hands. we feel like we got the opportunity to examine these issues and present our views. anytime you are talking about these fundamental issues, you have to talk about first principles. there are some cases where it does not makake sense to talk about what people were thinking in 1979, but it was very important to get e court to really focus on the idea that this is a basic question that we have been wrestling with for 200 or more years in this country.

it makes the fact that congress has never done something like this before a very significant aspect of the argument. i thought t the solitoror general did a wonderful job presenting their side of the case. this is not the first time they have tried to answer these questions. that have been dealing with these cases. it is nice to get to the end of the process and get the case submitted to the court. hopefully they f feel like ty have gotten a good presentation from both sides of the case. >> which justices are you most curious about? >> i am curious about all 9. 8 is just speculation. -- it is just speculation. we will find out at the e of june about what the justices and thought about this case.

the process for the justices is just beginning. i am quite grateful for all lawyers it is done at this point. >> that will not stop us. joining g us today, two key voices in this debate. karen harne frorom the natational federation of independent business. also joining us tododay former reblicican congressman ernest took of the heritage foundation. he helped to lead the charge against the affordable care. thanks to both of you for joining us. it is been a busy week. karen, let me start with you. it was not the cmber of commerce or other can shores someme that joined this lawsuit. it was nfib. you all were ridiculed. it wasalled a frivolous

lawsuit by many. w it lks like the entire health care act is hanging in the balance. >> when you talk to small business owners and they y ask what can government do t to helpp guard your business? they always say get out of the way. this is the biggest intrusion into all of their liberties. this is the first time congress has ever done thihis. it is unlimited. the government r really struggled with answering. what can congress not force us to buy? it is also unnecessary. it is notot the silver bullet for solving the health care crisis. we are worried about what it means for allf ou liberties going forward and the dangerous precedent that could be set because you are going to be

giving congress police p power if the individual mandate is up held. those where the key arguments at we made this week. you heard the justice say this m model works liksocial security. how is this different than social security? >> social security is a government pgram. it does not say you have to go out and buy a product. >> but y you have to pay into the system. >> it is a tax. the key thing here is we are talking about a restricti on the power of government. a lot of peoeople think it is a a viation of individual liberty free-speech rights, or rights to avoid self-incrimination. this is not about individuaual

rights. it is about the restriction that the congress puts on the coress. if congress is n not granted a power by the constitution,n, that power is reserved for the ststates and the citizens. it is about the power of congress. that is s vevery different when you are talking aut a requirement to purchase a private commodity. >> did you all ope up a whole can of worms? many small busininesses were struggliling with health care costs. some of your members saiaid they haveve seen the afrdable care act brining down their costs. if the mandate is done away with, what is next for small businesses in terms of health care? >> nfib hahas ver been part of ththe just say no crowd. we wanthose free-market reforms that w will treat small

siness owners, their employees, their same as large employers under the taxode. there were many other reforms -- >> none of those ever worked or gotast. finally you have something that after decades and decadess talking about health care reform passed, do you really see a way out? >> i defitely think there are bipartisan reforms thahat will be taken up again if this is overturned. i am glad for thohose small business owners whhave had a positive experience, b but the majority of ourr members are telling us the opposit congress put kerosene on the fire of health care costs ring. they are being tolold by their insurancee that their plans are being cancelled. >> what shohould congre do nextt

if this is overturned in part or in full? shshould they turn it over to the states? >> you havave toto repeal omacare and you ought to look at the things that drive up the cost of health insurance. when you have over 130,000 pageses of rules and the galatians, that dramatically increases the cost of health care and insurance. you ought to address affordability rather than government programs. >> a lot of businesses are saying what should we do? should we prepare for ts in case it is not returned? a loof professionals are saying you have to go ahead andnd get ready to adhereo the law. >> aolutely. >> thank you both. we will have to have you back here in june when we have the ruling. thank you for joining us. up next, one of the two biggest

better programs is in the hot seat this week. we will talk to business and finance implications coming up af ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] from our nation's networks... ♪ ♪ ...to our city streets... ♪ ♪ ...to skies around the world... ♪ ♪ ...northrop grumman's security solutions are invisibly at work, protecting people's lives... [ soldier ] move out! [ male announcer ] ...without their even knowing it. that's the value of performce. northr grumman.

>> welcome back. it is time for our roundtable with peter morici from the university of maryland, a prprofessor of e economics and sahil kapur a congressiononal reporter, and max richtman from the national commiee to presererve social security and

medicare. there were journalists crowded togethert the supreme crt. we were lucky to get a sea we had to turn to each other to gueswho was talking. we are glato havave you because this is somemething you havave closely followed and watched for a long time. your takeafterwards was iss going to come down to kennedy. you saw some daylight with john roberts. where doou see dayligh? >> i think the chief justice w was aggressivevely questioning the administration, but during the latt half of the oral argument, he expressed sympathy with the argument that the health ce market is unique and it needs to be treated in a unique way. we did not see that same kind of quesestioning to the challenger

from the other justices. > you say in a column this week the whe what you wish for. this could lead to single paye >> they could throw out the individual mandate. we have a system in ryla and new jery whe the insurance companies have to take all comers and they cannot discriminate in terms of race. that sounds like o obama's system today without t the individual mandate. dodown t road, this will force some many peoplele into the pool as small businesseses dropped out wewe may evolves into something that looks like a single payer system. >> what do you think -- there are so many different ways that justices can rule. they could leave the mandadate or they could rule it is notot even

in their purview. weo not expect that.t. what would be the best economic ruling? >> throw the whole thing out. it is going to be very expensive in the business communy. they are using the i individual mandate to g to that.. they are not thinking long term. that is why i wrote e the column. my feeling is at the court will not do that. i think at the end of the day the court is very leerybout throwing out something this big bang bang they rememember rose about trying to attack the court -- something this big. they remember roosevelt trying to attack the court. >> this may not be thrown out just yet.

you say therere is cause fo concern for oer americans and even those sti working. >> there is tremendous cause for concern for current medicare beneficiaries and f future medicare beneficiaries. the bottom line is seniors on medicare get more in terms of benefits and pay less for it. all of that disappears. >> you wrote a list of things that you say helps them with the affoable ce. >> absolutely. the focus for us -- we jned with the national seni citizen law center to at least protect those benefits that are so critical. >> such as prescription drugs. >> prescriion drugs the costt of prescription drugs.

since 2003, there are prescripti drug benefits undeder medicare but there is this doughnut hole in coverage. very unusual in an insurance plan where you have a gap in n the middle of your coverage but you continue to pay any way. the a affordable care act closes it. inin the meantime, over the next few years and it provides discouounts f for brand-name drugs in this area maryland, washington, and virginia on average anybody who has a part d prescription plan will save $600 a year. >> my boss asked me to make a prediction before the oral argument started, but i thoug it would be so unprecedented for theourt to overthrow such a mamajor piece of legislation already passesed b by congress.

it is very possible they might do this. what is your prediction? >> it is very hard to predict. many of my colleagues say it is too close to call. what i saw -- three likely vote to strike it down. >> you had written about how scalia supported ththe commerce clause before. >> his misgivings about the law from top to bottom were very much on display. would be quite aurnaround if he concurs. >> 7 legislators and two justices. the are some thatat are going to do exact whahat the business community wants. there are only two justicess

during this case. >> johnoberts and kennedy. >> absolutely. they are the only two exact count. it is not supposed to be this way. >> we are going to take a break here. stay with us.

♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] for our families... our neighbors... and our communities... america's beverage companies have created a wide range of new choices. developing smaller portion sizes and more low- & no-calorie beverages... adding clear calorie labels so you know exactly what you're choosing... and in schools, replacing full-calorie soft drinks with lower-calorie options. with more choices and fewer calories, america's beverage

companies are delivering. >> ok. this case is so contentntious. our roundtable is still debating back-and-forth. peter, you think that even though thevoted on fririday,

closeded room, nobody knowing the outcome -- we all know how this court works. they can all continue to shift positions until the time in june. you think justice roberts will decide with the majority. >> aolutely. if it is a 5-4ecision to ststrike down, it is inis bt interest to make it 6 6-3. he can construct a very tough task for this mandate so the government cannot turn around and say it is broroccoli. he can defe what the test will be and then demonstrate how health c care is special and meets that test -- >> we want to get into thee broccoli. i want to ge to another hotot- button issue being debed this week. you wrote about a.. congressn paul ryan in his budget says le's do away with

medicare as we know it. >> the budg that he put out replaces medicare with t the subsidized insururance exchange very similar to the affffordable care at. this v version has a public auction that seniors can buy into with the vouchers that they get it doe and medicare coverage. the other important thing is the value of the the vouchers are going to be more generous. >> but the conservatives loved it. >> what chairman brianan's budget does is allow medicare -- those whwant to buy into medicare to use these vouchers but they arare limited in their value. there is someone running for the republican nomination for president who talked about hoping that memedicare would --

this budget resolution if pieces bome law, that candidate's dreams would be filled because medicare would wither on the bind. >> what is the alternative? >> the affordable care act made great advances in fixing medicare, holdg downwn costs and improving benefits. i do not know what the -- >> a lot of promises toold down costs. >> we should give the bill a chancece. there are components of the bill -- >> i have too much respect too say the bill should stand. there are better ways to reform the system. >> we talked about refororming the stem for about 50 years >> this does not do it. i disagree with you. health care is o of control.

this bill will not solve eight. mr. ryan's s will not eitehr. i think those are the most sophomore proposals i h have seen. >> i would like to see the politicians go into a senior center and say all of those preventive services you have had for the last two years -- lower prescripti drug costs and the fact that the affordle care act extended the life of the medicare program for sevenears -- we are g going to take all that away. >> i would say you tnk the bill has a chance. >> ibm foreace. >> i am for this help the debate that we are having. stay with us. our number i was payi too much with cable. paying so much you want better quality. it just got more frustrating and frustrating. for the amount of money that i'm paying, my cable company should take care of me. [ male announcer ] stop paying for second best. get verizon fios

tv, internet and phone with our best price online: just $94.99 a month, guaranteed for two years. first time we saw tv on fios was amazing. i was just in a...trance watching it. i'm discovering new channels every day. [ male announcer ] sign up with no annual contract. or choe a two-year contract and pick your bonus: hbo and cinemax for 12 months... or $250 back. fios internet...the speed, you can't compare. i'm able to take care of things much faster now. [ male announcer ] get fios online: $94.99 a month guaranteed for two years... plus your choice of bonuses with a two-year contract. is change good? in this case change is very good. [ male announcer ] visit verizon.com/greatdeal. that's verizon.com/greatdeal. cocontact the verizon centerer for customers with disabilies at 800-974-6006 tty/v. fios. a network ahead.

[ male announcer ] if you believe the mayan calendar, on december 21st polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space. which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd, and you stilneed to retire. td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans?

>> welcome back. ellen number of the week is 42, the percentage of enclosed malls in the d.c. rion that are closing. 31 enclosed malls for - of those zerare dead or dyingg including white flint ndovover, and virginia square.e. larger ones like tysons corner it seemed to be the healthiest.

some wereeborn as thriving town centers like rocockville and laurel.