? >> this week on "defense news ticker the innovations the transform defense during the last three decades. welcome to "defense news." on today's show we are celebrating our own 30 years by showcasi influencers, initiatives, and innovations that transform defense during the last three decades. the full list will be available at defensenews.com on october 24. i sat down with the former pentagon official and aerospace company executive who is perhaps best known for the merger of martin marietta and lucky corporation to create the biggest defense company in the

globe. guest: part of the merger was out of necessity. it was a environment that you could not survive unless globe. guest: you were willing to combine. there wasn't much of a choice. at the same time there was a certain degree of luck involved. there was an ideal combination. the two companies company whose competitors like each other and got surprise to me was the great advantage we got was never shown on the balance sheet. we had combined 17 companies to make our part of lockheed martin. we never really appreciated the advantage of having 17 different company sitting around the table and saying, this is how we did it and it works or it didn't work.

guest: it took two shots at northrup. host: do you feel like it has had the same end result, are not necessarily? guest: we could have saved the government a couple billion dollars every year. my biggest disappointment in my entire business career was the justice department's stuff stopped it. the government can do whatever they want. but the way it was handled was a huge disappointment. i think it would have been a great transaction. guest: so basically the pentagon had come in and said, you all need to start combining because we don't have enough business to sustain all these companies. there was a point at which they said, no more. host: we had no -- guest: we had no idea.

did not quite catch onto. host: it's interesting. where their concerns at the time of the merger on whether or not it would be a success? guest: there were a lot of concerns. i talked a lot to people in other industries who had done mergers and acquisitions. it turns out that about 80% of the mergers fail, at least at that time. your chance for success was not good and we will well aware of that. usually the failure was cultural,, people cannot get along with each other. happily we just did not have that problem. host: that's true today as well. many companies say it is a cultural problem in terms of mergers. we have seen comments from folks in terms of whether or not there is room for more consolidation in the market. i've even talked about stevens as well.

there needs to be more consolidation in the market for the defense community to be able to sustain itself? guest: at the time of the so-called last supper, they put a chart on the board. the number of companies they could afford in various fields, like aircraft, submarines and so on, there are quite a number of them. we could only afford one competitor. part of what drove us, i don't know whether the dot changed his mind. important to have two competitors. the difference between 3 and 2 is 50%. a third 3%. the bottom line that was true, we were there, better to have 2 or 3 healthy companies than 15 weak companies. it's going to get harder and harder to do large-scale

be that the government would wake up its mind for years i've trained dogs for the marines - like me, some of these dogs have seen many tours of duty. and for the past 15 years i've been a navy federal member. thanks to their fast approval process, when it came time to buy a new car, we got everything we needed to transport my wife's little bundle of joy... ... who i just adore. open to the armed forces, the dod and their families.

general who also spent 30 the mitchell institute of aerospace power studies. inc. you for joining us. we are here to talk a bit about influencers who helped shape defense during the last three decades. you all chimed in a bit and helped us come up with a final list. i'm going to start with you. someone that made our list that you actually have worked with in the past, correct? guest: secretary gates served

directly as his comptroller. secretary gates spent a lot of his time prosecuting the iraq and afghan war. i will remember him most for his management skills and the hard decisions he was willing to make. i thought he had terminated more major defense. he participated in termination of the dd1000 program, the army's future combat system, and production of the c17 and f22 aircraft. all of those were hard decisions that required his attention and a lot of work on capitol hill. i remember him for that. the other thing i remember about him is his empathy for the military and especially the troops in combat. if you've ever read his book, at the end of the book it says he's eligible to be buried in arlington cemetery and he has to be buried in section 60, which is where most of the iraq and

buried. he's a great guy. i was pleased to work with him. host: he's very widely respected even though he's not somewhat polarizing in his decision. you were going to speak about an international figure we see quite a bit. guest: vladimir putin. i was trying to come up with a slogan about how he's been running the country since 2000. is to make russia great again. after the end of the cold war, there is a historic pu mission to everything he's doing, to become a hegemonic power. we've seen the annexation of crimea, we've seen bold action militarily in syria, friendship with iran and china. major military modernization, conventional and nuclear forces.

speaking. in the long term i don't think it's a winning plan. but he has certainly been a consequential foreign leader. the economy is in shambles. that's part of the reason he is undertaking this patriotic nationalism and all these military affairs, is to prop up his standing at home. it seems to be working. to be determined how the future will turn out. he certainly has been a major fundamental within the country and increasingly in foreign affairs. host: certainly making the nato allies nervous. ok, and dave? you are going to speak about andy marshall. guest: mr. andy marshall is perhaps not as well-known as

luminaries that worked and defense over the last 30 years, but he actually has worked in defense over 50 luminariesyears. over 40 of it in the pentagon. he ran an organization known as the office of net assessment. now, the office of net assessment under mr. marshall's tneure -- tenure became a focal point for people who try to understand what the future threats to the united states would be. he was very prescient in terms of identifying the chinese as a growing threat, militarily but economically as well. and then he worked very hard to get people to innovate and become creative and thinking about strategies. people tend to associate the pentagon with lots of manpower, weapon systems, budgets, programs.

people who looked at strategy as a way to solve our security challenges, and they did a very good job at it. host: i'm going to ask a general question of you in terms of leadership, because that's what this list is all about, defining leaders of the defense industry. what do you feel each of you -- what you feel is essential moving forward in terms of evolving defense in the current state? guest: we need someone who understands the threats the united states is facing. that is key to being a successful secretary of defense. we also need one who understands how government works and the pentagon works and has the courage to make hard decisions. secretary gates did all of those well and it's an important reason why he has had such significant influence.

the former soviet union, we've seen slow fraying over the past few decades that the bipartisan consensus on national security and what americans should be doing, and by extension, defense policy. i think the next secretary and whoever is in the white house needs to think clearly and have a plan, not just fall back into hoping for the best, but have a plan for restoring that crucial middle, whether it hill but also across washington and in the agencies to get their agenda done and get the budget where it needs to be. >> innovation, creativity, and vision. vision and understanding about the future, guided by the past but not constrained by the past. we have been so tied up and quite frankly, we are falling

continuing to try to do the things that we've done before, hoping for a different answer in the future. i believe that's the definition of stupidity. but, be that as it may, we need defense leadership. we need national leadership that is interested in the future and is not constrained to just the way we had done business in the

>> welcome back. we are talking about some of the program initiatives that shape pentagon over the last 30 years. dave, tell us about goldwater nichols, something in the news right now. guest: in a nutshell, goldwater nichols was landmark legislation

how the u.s. military fights. very basically, before the goldwater nichols legislation in 1986, services could be considered as war fighters, if you will, after goldwater nichols, services don't fight anymore. the services organize, train, and equip. they provide components to a combatant commander or unified command who then can organize those components that is directly associated with the particular contingency at hand. it's a much more flexible way to use our military forces in a way that is much more integrated than we have been in the past. the first dramatic use of this kind of a joint organization was seen in desert storm 25 years ago.

instead of the notion of functional components he. for example, we had a joint force air command. we had aircraft from rv navy air force and marine corps who were all integrated in terms of effects under a single commander. it has done magnificent in terms of increased effectiveness, and compatibility among the services. now we need to go to the next level, interdependency among the services. perhaps when you talk about that later. host: i want to talk to you about the enclosure plan. guest: we have had five rounds already. the total savings for those probably rounds about 12 ilion dollars a year. those savings will continue in perpetuity unless we have to reopen. it is a major way the department

affecting modernization and don't like closing bases because it affects jobs in the district and so they resist it strongly. the department has asked for another round, it will be the fifth time this year. it will almost certainly be turned down a fifth time. -- it is the single biggest way i department has save money without adversely affecting readiness or modernization. i hope the new administration and the newer congress will look again at granting another round, because there is significant -- more basis need to be closed. it has been an important program. host: part of the reason why the

program. program, the budget control act, which is -- >> the budget control act represents a couple of things. a represents washington speaking to work as well as it could or should. it represents the key party that came to power. and, focusn federal debt. it's fundamentally reshaped many government programs, but none more so than the defense department and u.s. military by extension. power.

depending on who you talk to, it has been effective in reducing the debt. it disproportionately targets the defense department. and, there are four years left to go. it's not only been a headache, it's going to continue to do so the next administration. host: you were a key part in the discussions. guest: i agree. had negative effects on the department of defense, particularly in 2013 when we went to sequestration. there weren't enough dollars in training. as mckenzie said, the budget -- the new administration will inherit ready billion dollars or more above the cap levels, the new president and secretary of defense will have to immediately grapple with this.

deal that raises the caps for defense and probably nondefense as well and looks at things other than defense and nondefense spending, revenues, mandatory programs. that's the only way out of the problems associated with the budget control act. host: now, personal finance experts offer tips on tackling debt and retirement. >> 51% of those still working say they are concerned with their level of debt. 31% of retirees feel the same a recent survey by the employee benefit research institute. they're a steps you can take to reduce or eliminate your debt. retiring from the military is unique. you can start selecting a pension the day you retire. this gives you the advantage of being able to better pay off high interest debt, work to eliminate credit card debt first. these usually have higher

other loans and don't offer texted actions. focus on the card with the i've been a soldier for 3 years. i've scaled the toughest terrain and faced plenty of my fears as part of my training. and for the past two years i've been a navy federal member. so even out here i can pay securely with mobile pay linked to my free checking account. i don't know about this, it's ... [screams] what did she say? she said "i don't know about this." i couldn't hear over my helmet. your ears are completely exposed. mm-hmm, yeah i just ...

host: we are going to talk about some of the innovations that mattered over the last 30 years. bob, there's one innovation that pretty much everyone uses day today. tell us about that. >> we started in the 1970's but

1990's. it has fundamentally changed the way we fight because it provides targeting information for smart weapons and they have made us more able to conduct activities and avoid collateral damage and civilian deaths. it is also affected the way everybody conducts their lives and not just the united states, but around the world. it has been a very important innovation and expensive one. i was a comptroller for the air force in the 1990's and i remember saying, only half in jest, if i was allowe have needed any money for gps, and i might have been able to fund much of the united states air force. it is one of the important innovations the department created that has helped america, and also helped the department of defense. host: as someone who gets lost all the time, i'm quite you did not end up charging for that. mckenzie, another thing americans use every second every day is the internet or in -- internet.

well. guest: there are some well. guest:dod-led innovations that e helped, such as hairspray and plastic bags. others have fundamentally changed our way of life. it is not just the internet. they have changed our way of life and our commercial economy. it wasn't limi the department also basically gave birth to e-mail, computers, and the internet. all of those together have changed our entire society. and, that has helped driven by the internet. the impact on our workforce

innovations is what they have done militarily and civilian applications. host: one thing that maybe isn't used by both americans -- most americans is stealth technology. guest: stealth change the character of warfare. the best way to describe that is through an example. we just celebrated 25th anniversary of the opening of operation desert storm. to give you an idea of the impact of stealth, hours of operation desert storm ad campaign involved attacking over 150 separate and distinct targets all over the nation of iraq. that is more targets attacked then in the years in the world war ii combined bomber offensive over europe. one of the reasons we rebel to do that is because stealth

another quick example, first attack. conventional aircraft, took 41 aircraft. only 8 of them were bomb droppers. the other 33 were support aircraft. at the same time we have 20 stealth f-117's attacking 28 separate targets with 38 separate aim points. 38 separate aim points. that kind of technological capability allowed us to then change the strategy such that we could now not have to rollback enemy defenses before we could attack them, we could hit across the breadth and depth of the country across every strategic center of the breadth and depth of the country across every strategic center of gravity simultaneously . that is the kind of change and the character of or that stealth introduced. host: one program that is stealthy and involves quite a lot of technology is the f-35

it's going to be major for the coming decades, for the u.s. and global partners. just get a quick sentence to your thought on the state of the program and why it matters going forward. guest: i like and defense weapons to kids. introduced. when they are little, they do what you say. when they are teenagers they drive you nuts. the f-35 is a late teenager. i think it will succeed and be an important program just as the f-16 has been. guest: any other program we've ever seen, for good and for that. contribution and sharing with so many countries -- it's going to be a remarkable shift in terms of acquisition going forward. guest: it's an fbearcawcs35. it is a flying sensor shooter that performs multiple roles and will act as a center shooter

of the future that will be much much more than just a replacement for an f-16. host: that's all this week. be sure to check out defensenews.com october 24 for our full list of 10 influencers and initiatives and 10 innovations that shaped defense during the last three decades great thanks for joining us. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its

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