deadline to pass healthcare reform as president obama wanted, now there are huge problems in the house, not just with republicans, but now with conservative democrats. what happens next? we will ask the top white house advisor david axelrod an one of the leading conservative democrats cooper of tennessee and turn to the issue that has consumed the headlines last week the gates controversy we will talk about that with sociologist and columnist kathleen parker. i will have a final word on what the president calls a peak moment, healthcare and the gates controversy on face the nation. captioning sponsored by cbs "face the nation" with cbs news chief washington correspondent bob schieffer. and now from cbs news in washington, bob schieffer.

well obviously when he said what he said in the news conference he later came to realize that on reflection that maybe that was not the way to go but i was just wondering was with there any particular incident the next day that made him realize that i need to get this straightened out? >> no, but i think that he certainly is, you know, aware of -- he reads widely, he, you know, gets summaries of coverage, he seize some

coverage, i think he understood that the debate was veering off in the wrong direction and as he said, that his words may have contributed to that so he felt a responsibility to step forward and kind of cool the situation and acknowledge the fact that he had, he calibrated his words poorly and had contributed to that. so that is what he did and i think it has had the desired effect. i think people are talking more constructively now and i think the steam has gone out of this and instead of hat being generated maybe a little light will be generated off of this situation. >> and i want to go back. he did get assurances from both of them that they do want to meet and kind of talk this out? >> they expressed an interest in coming and coming to the white house and -- and, you know, i think that will likely happen. >> well , there is no question it took attention away from one thing the president wanted to talk a lot about this week and

that was healthcare reform. let me ask you this, mr. axelrod, with conservative democrats in the house now saying they just can't go along with what their leaders want to do, is the president ready to scale this whole operation back and bring it into line and more into line with what these conservative democrats want to do? because quite frankly if you can't get this group of democrats you can't pass this bill. >> well, bob, first understand that there is agreement on probably 80 percent of these issues, and the reason there is an agreement is because we have seen health premiums double in the last ten years, out-of-pocket costs go up by a third, healthcare is going up three times the rate of wages, and this is an us u unsustainabe the trends for families and businesses, everybody i think wants to get something done and now we are at that final point, final 20 percent and trying to work through those details, but i think that we are going to get there because this is a

situation that is untenable for the american people moving forward, and within the things that we are going to do is a vast array of insurance reforms that have been long over due that will help people, i mean right now we have a system that works well for the insurance industry but not particularly well for consumers of healthcare and for the american people. we want to give them more security and i think that we will succeed in doing that. >> well, obviously, the president and it has been a strategy by design, he has spoken mostly about principles, he has wanted to a chee, isn't the president going to have to get down to some specifics here, mr. axelrod, tell the congress exactly what he is for, how he wants to pay for this, how he wants to cut the costs that are going to have to be cut so that the congress can know exactly what he is talking about? because some of the time here where you are seeing some of these things, where they are trying to get the house democrats to sign off on things that the president hasn't even

signed off on yet. >> well, first of all, understand that we have been in almost daily, perhaps dialogue hourly in the last few months with members of the house and senate on, the president did lay out a very specific array of cuts and savings that will help finance most of this health reform and those have been largely embraced by everybody on top, so he is involved in the process and will continue to be in steering the right direction, that it lowers costs and improves quality of care and get us out from under the yoke of this inexorable climb in healthcare costs. >> but give me specifics of how the president wants to pay for this. he said in a news conference he is ready to consider a surtax on people in the very upper income brackets those who make over half a million dollars. is he ready as mike alan, politico's crack reporter

reports today ready to tax some of the most expensive, what he calls gold plated cadillac insurance policies? is he ready to do that? >> well, mike is a crack reporter but the president actually was asked this the other day by jim lehrer and what he said was this was, you know, that this was an intriguing idea to put an excise tax on high end healthcare policies like the ones that the executives at goldman zach have the $40,000 policies the big breast is keeping the yoke of this, the burden off the middle class who are struggling in this the economy, if it meets that test, then he will certainly give it consideration, and i think that is certainly a possibility, there are other possibilities out there as well. >> i just want to go back to my previous -- >> and by the way, but i want to respond to your previous question by saying, the president laid out a specific proposal on this which was after

all of the cuts that he proposed that will pay for most of the cuts in unwarranted subsidies to the insurance industry and so on he said that we ought to cap the deductions for the very wealthiest americans on their taxes and that is a proposal that he believed in, others in congress had a different view. so we are having a dialogue about that. >> but just one question. how can you get house democrats to sign off on something that, oh, all you will say about it is well that is an intriguing idea. >> isn't he going to have to say, look, fellows if you will do this, i am ready to do this, because -- >> if -- >> go ahead. >> if there is a consensus for an idea and people are looking for his view on it, he will give them that view. that consensus hasn't he mermd yet, that is why people have been working all weekend long, day and night on this and will into this week and next, so, you

know, i am sure that this process will move along. the fact is everyone is focused on the fact that we have some issues left to resolve, we made enormous progress on this and i think we will continue to do that and it will be a target to get something done in the fall on this, which has always been, you know, our goal. >> why not say to the congress, look, this is so important i think you fellows ought to cancel your august vacation and if you will cancel yours i will cancel mine? >> well, i think if the view was that that would improve our chances of getting something done, i am sure the president would be willing to do that, that is a calculation that has to be made. the important thing is that -- >> is that a possibility? >> to continue to move forward. >> is that a possibility? >> i think it is unlikely that that will happen. but, you know, i am not going to prejudge this. this is also a question for the leaders. >> i think we are making good progress. i think we are on track to get something done. these are complex issues we are

having a good thorough discussion about them, because we don't want to put speed ahead of doing this right. and i think everybody agrees on that. >> all right. thank you so much, mr. axelrod. >> and we turn now to congressman jim cooper, who is one of those conservative democrats. he is at his home in nashville, tennessee this morning. i guess we couldn't blame mr. axelrod for not cancelling's the president's vacation on tv, he probably wouldn't keep his job very long if he did that. >> bob, it is very important that every american understand this plan, because it is so vital, it is about how their doctor or hospital treats them and that is what this issue has got to do. we want more white house leadership. now they have been increasingly good at this where they are more and more engaged, but the real question is not about authorship but more about craftsmanship a bill that works and his president laid doubt excellent guidelines and we are for reform

we want a good bill to pass this year and i think that can happen. >> but as of right now, speaker pelosi said when she takes the bill to the floor for a vote, that she will have the votes to pass it. can she take that bill to the floor next week yet? does she have the votes yet to pass it? >> i don't believe so next week. i think that the american people want to take a closer look at this legislation. they want to feel comfortable with it. i think most members of the house and senate want the same thing. we are still in the earliest stages of drafting reform, we have a long way to go. a lot of agreement is out there and i think david axelrod is right, we have agreement on 70 or 80 percent of the legislation but it is important we get the other details right too. >> well because the other details are who is going to pay for it and how are you going to cut the costs. what do you want here, congressman? if you went to white house or if the president called you on the phone after your are on television here this morning what would you tell him about what needs to happen here?

>> well there are two approaches we can try to amend the current bills that are in congress and that is a possibility, or there are other approaches that are completely bipartisan and introduced and actually score well according to the congressional budget office. they save money and they cover everyone. one of these is called the healthy americans act introduced by ron widen and bob bennett, another approach is the one sat former senate leader tom daschle came up with bob dole so there are other alternative approaches that congress should be allowed to consider but if we are just amending the current legislation it is important we get into the details and make sure they work in every state in this great country and there are ways to do that because there are excellent models of healthcare delivery all over the country, places like the mayo clinic that do a superb job almost each one of these states has an outstanding model and if we just allowed them to grow more and as the president says repeatedly if we can just make health insurance more available for everybody i think it is going to be

healthcare reform everybody can get behind. >> well, what about this idea that apparently is being talked about at least in the white house now of putting a tax on the more expensive health insurance programs, the so-called cadillac plans? would that be something you could vote for? >> bob that is a very interesting and promising new development in the discussions. i think the better way to describe it is like this. first of all, this is a free country, you should be able to buy whatever health insurance you want to with your own money. but you should not be able to force your fellow taxpayers to subsidize your choice of these super luxury plans, reading about one today for goldman sachs that is $40,000 per family that is fine if you want to do buy that with your own money but it is not right to ask taxpayers to subsidize that policy and a lot of people don't understand today's very complex tax system which does, in fact, subsidize the policies of the highest income people in america, and really doesn't give much of a tax break at all to regular hardworking americans so i think there is a way to make that tax

system a lot fang fairer than it has been in the possible. >> is it possible to cut healthcare costs i talk to doctor who say look the costs are going up, not down, is it real historic you can actually make substantial cuts in how much this costs? >> bob, you have asked the key question right there i think the best way to put it, what we really need to do is slow the rate of growth of health spending, it has been growing at inflation plus two and a half percent for 30 or 40 years if we can just get it down to the gross of population that would solve two-third of our entitlement problems in the future. the healthcare system has grown so fat and happy on the extra money they don't know how to live on an inflationary adjustment i think we can reform the system but most of medicine is cultural and it is hard for government to get at. the article in new york times on the different between mcallen and el paso texas, the el paso being the highest taxpaying area

in the country and this developed due to a practice pattern in mcallen that is very, very wasteful, so what we want is good value, every american wants to live longer and healthier and we can do that and safe a bunch of money every career we are waists some $700 billion and that is billion billion with a b, bob, if we can just save a fraction of that we can solve the problem. >> cooper acknowledged as one of the real experts on this whole issue in the house and we will

>> schieffer: with us now to talk about this controversy over the cambridge cop and the harvard scholar, michael eric dyson of georgetown university, among other things a biographer of barack obama, sociologist who has written a lot about politics and sociology and kathleen parker the syndicated columnist,

i would say it is fair to say conservative columnist, in the washington post, although she is ambidextrous, she tells me. what should we make of this michael? >> well, obviously, it was a flare-up along a bigger trajectory of race in american society. the disagreement, the disgruntle., the disconcerning evidence of racial and class hostility between sergeant crowley and professor gates and the president getting involved and what i love about him he is a principled gentleman and says look i ratcheted it up and i admit i did that mea culpa let me help figure this out i think& we have to focus between the persona and the personalities here to bigger issue, racial profiling is real, disproportionate of black and mention hispanic men in prison is real, we have to have a broader conversation about race and eric holder the attorney general suggested to us in black history we have been a nation of cowards when it comes to race, he was widely booed and some

people reviled him and now his words have come to haunt us and seem to be pressing huh-uhs what we need to do is have honest, open conversation on all side without prejudging the situation but to suggest at the same time, bob, that look there are some big problems here, if mr. crowley and mr. gates go join mr. obama in obama and have a beer that is great but what we haven't done, got to what ails us are structural problems and the real estate by the way has the bully pulpit to talk about this i in a more powerful way i think he has been loathe to speak about this and i think he should dive right into it and change some of the policies that actually affect brown and black men that go to prison the harsh penalties they endure i think all of that kind of stuff, that is where it leads us, i'm sorry that is going to have a huge affect that is very edifying on the american conversation. >> >> schieffer:. >> well it is going to be interesting, i bree with so much of what he said and, you know, because of my introduction i suppose i am supposed to present some conservative view or

because of my -- i am supposed to see the white view but this is not a clear-cut black and white issue, i don't think, in fact, ambidextrous conversation has had to do with the fact i can argue both sides passionately. >> this conversation about race desperately needs to take place, barack obama is uniquely positioned to advance the conversation, i think he stepped in it a little bit when he got up at that first press conference and said the police acted stupidly but first by prefacing it by saying well i don't really know the fact and i am buys add biased but barack obama was doing what -- i think he was being the person obama and for getting momentarily he is the president obama and everything he says matters but he did do the right thing, coming back and saying look i did make this worse, i'm sorry made it worse, he didn't say i'm sorry but indicated as much. >> you know that was kind of remarkable in itself. i can never recall and maybe one of you can a president actually saying, i made this worse. i thought that was a very

interesting moment -- >> yes. >> schieffer: in the history of the american presidents. >> he got the press conference question can you think of anything you have ever done wrong or regretted or made a mistake he would not have trouble thinking of something to say. >> #02: that is remarkable. i think that is an indication of a ground leadership and integrity and at least to acknowledge if i am going to ask the american people to do some stuff i have to say i am wrong myself. but, look, i think kathleen is right. when you look at barack obama it did have a sense of flashback, you know, because many black men have endured this particular problem, i mean, i am a professor at georgetown and i got a ph.d. from princeton but stopped by the cops in new jersey and when i told them i was working on a ph.d. at 3:00 o'clock in the morning, had me walking around on my teetotaller and he said yeah and i am the blanking president of the united states. >> the kind of dissfairning remarks made by police people towards african-american and latino men, i don't think there is a moral equivalency here, police people with big guns

going into your house or accosting you on the streets are not equal to people who get mad and outraged that they have been stopped. most black men would never say what professor gates allegedly said according to sergeant crowley, we are too scared. i have had white people i have been with who wouldn't stop got out of the car and cursed the police, i took cover because i knew what hail of bullets was about to come. >> let me ask kathleen, let's suppose this had been two women, would this have happened? >> well, no. i don't think so. i think we do have -- there is a male aspect to this, there is a pride aspect to this. guys are going to go head to head. they are going to say look, oh, yeah, well i will show you, buddy. your momma, oh, yeah well i have the gun and the hand imufers so we will sew you who is boss and males take foyt a different level. i don't think it would have been the same thing and i would state that once i was -- as we are trading personal stories i was told once by a black female traffic cop, and i got a little feisty, about 100 degrees and tired and had a toddler in the

seat and i didn't think i was speeding and wanted to argue and she indicated to me if i didn't adjust my attitude i would be going to jail so i adjusted my attitude. it was a pretty simple thing. and, you know, if we are going to get right down to the bottom line, in this case, i want to say that the man with the gun and the handcuffs and the power is the man who says, made a mistake, see you later or, you know, go ahead and let him have a piece of your mind if you want to but walk away. >> if that had not been professor gates but henry kissinger another harvard professor and george bush the president and he said that is my friend and a black sergeant arrested him he would be doing traffic duty right now, the police union would not stand behind him and i think we would have a much more different understanding and interpretation so these hinges do make a difference, class makes a difference, race makes a difficult, testosterone and that class distinction needs to be talk about says do you know who i am, you have got a black intellectual saying to a working class white guy, i am more important than you are you are, that sets up a whole other set

of sparks, but we were talking earlier and we decided that not only should we be invited to this white house encounter but what would be interesting, the way you get to the truth is you have the opposite side defend, you are. >> i will argue for the black intellectual and you argue for the cop. >> it took the president and a harvard professor to gin up enough pedestrian agree and social status to argue what is usually taken for a law of white policeman that is a class matter too that has to be dealt with. >> schieffer: i will speak for the timekeeper here, our time is up, thank you both. i will be back with my own take on all of this in just a moment. >> this portion of face the nation is sponsored by priority male flat rate boxes. only from the postal service.

>> schieffer: finally today the president said he hopes the gates incident would provide a teachable moment and for sure it was no shiny moment for any of those involved, a scholar who popped off after a long day, which included locking himself out of his own house but then we have all been there, haven't we a cop trained not to let such things bother him, let some smart remarks get under his skin. inexcusable sure, but aren't cops human too sometimes and a president who should have remembered but forgot just how bullied the bully pulpit can be. but then he had a couple of things on his mind that day too,

didn't he? finally the president did what presidents or anyone for that matter seldom do, he admitted a mistake. he said he realized that what he had said just made things worse. that made me think, if the cop had told the scholar sorry i didn't mean to insult you when i asked you for identification, i was just trying to do the job you pay me to do, or if the scholar had told the cop you know i shouldn't have popped off, it just has been a long, hard day, my guess if they had said that none of this would have even made the local news. we all have bad days, no one is perfect, and when we are willing to step back, take a breath and admit that, or at least concede the other guy may have a point, it generally makes things better. to me, that is the lesson here. that's our broadcast. see you next week.

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