>> the inside story on the issues that affect you and your community. this is local 12 news makers. >> good morning and welcome to local 12 newsmakers. i'm dan hurly. sometimes a primary election for lesser known offices provide an opportunity for new people to enter the political sphere and electorate. morning. the republican -- reporter pits two experienced politicians who are well-known to the electorate electorate.

been headed by wayne coates, a democrat maintains a range of legal documents. most important are the documents, mortgages, deeds, plat maps related to the ownership or transfer of parcels of land. these are essential documents that must be assessed and accessed by the real estate attorneys every time a parcel is sold. the office also officially records partnerships, trust documents, so on. because of the nature of these documents, they are very important to historians exploring the history of our community. coates will run this november for third term on the democratic ticket. on march the 15th, in the primary, republican voters will have to choose between two well-known candidates to oppose wayne coates. norbert naetel is very well known, common pleas judge who handled the trials of pete rose

he worked as an assistant prosecutor and district attorney and judge. ohio law forbids anyone 70 or over from running for judge. mr. natell is 75 and therefore forced in to retirement in january. charlie winburn will be term limited out after serving through november of next year, 2017. pardon me. once before, mr. winburn serves seven years on council and was term limited out. he then served on the ohio civil rights commission. throughout his political career he has served as a minister. welcome to newsmakers. >> thank you very much, dan. pleasure to be here. >> welcome, both. >> the last race we sort of focused on was in district 31 for the ohio house.

and there are a number of young people running for the first time. so it just struck me as i was getting ready for this, what we've got here is a lot of experience. no longer judge, so i refer to you as mr. naytell. >> former judge naytell, whatever it is. >> there's not going to be any pete roses or tracy hunters in front of you in that situation. why run for this? why take it on? >> i will answer that in a second. but i do want to point out to your viewers, initially that was a three-man race. russ johnson has -- and i want the viewers to know this. he has withdrawn. >> which means his votes will not be counted. >> people, if your viewers vote

he has endorsed me, which i'm very happy about. but he withdrew too late but his name on still on the ballot. >> let's get back to the question. why are you doing this? >> because like many people, i want to be the taxpayer's watch dog. i've seen waste in government. we've seen it with the metropolitan sewer district. and i want to be the taxpayer's watch dog. to many people it's not an important office but to military veterans, the recorders office is very important because it maintains records. >> wouldn't it, if you want to be the watchdog, wouldn't you run for the auditors office? >> it's not up this year. and we've got my friend dusty in there anyways. i'm running for this office because i want to give the taxpayers the best bang for their buck. i want to give them the very

best possible service that i can. and i'll do that. i won't be a figure head. i will run that office if i'm fortunate enough to win. i gotta get through this primary first. >> charlie, why are you running for this office? >> former judge naytell is running because he needs a job. >> so does charlie. >> wait a minute. >> i'm running to serve. and matter of fact, i'm running to improve the quality of life for all the citizens of cincinnati. we have a 14-year structurally balanced. impose all the water increases, sewer increases. so i'm running as a servant leader to improve the quality of life. >> is this okay? >> we're fine. >> so you'll be able to -- >> we had technical difficulties difficulties. >> should i still talk?

>> also i'm running because the recorders office does not have a vision statement and a clear agenda. so i want to have a seven year business plan and to make it more efficient. >> we're going to talk about that a little later on. let me talk to you both. you couldn't run for judge, and i know you would have. >> oh, i would have. >> and you couldn't run for another term on council. and i know you would if you could. >> no the the council. >> even if there was no term limit? >> no. >> let me ask it this way, do you oppose term limits on judges and do you oppose term limits for city council? >> obviously i oppose because i still feel i have a lot to do. i'm experienced. i've been around. hey, and i treat taxpayer's money -- i'm real frugal with taxpayer's money.

i'm generous with charities but when it comes to taxpayer's money, i'm real tight. >> term limit for judges is important also because voters in 2012 voted to make sure these judges would not stay in office because after certain time, they lack sound judgment. they lack fitness. >> you think i lack sound judgment? >> yes, i do. and i'm going to prove that in a moment. >> you go ahead and prove that. >> so basically, yes, i do support term limits. we have two four-year terms. i think it's an opportunity now. actually i would be the first african american conservative to ever run for county wide position. listen to this, a county wide position in 225 years. i'm making history just by running against natel. >> we're having all sorts of -- just so the viewers know, we're having all sorts of things. judge natel's mic fell off. but that's okay.

we'll get that for you later. >> okay. i want to respond. >> you want to respond? yeah. >> charlie said something about he saved taxpayer's money. i got my water bill not too long ago and i looked at that thing. you know since 2006, i have paid $4,000 more because of the sewage charges. and you know, charlie's on city council. this morning i picked up the paper, there was a little -- somebody, letters to the editor complaining of the city mismanagement of the water district. sewerage charges have doubled since 2006. and my one bill has doubled. i figured it out. since 2006, i'm paying $4,000 more. i'd like to give that money to charity. maybe charlie can help me out. >> i don't like the water bills,

since i've been on council, i've been a watchdog. he's never voted for or against them. and mr. natel, you ought to be ashamed of yourself, rule 8.4 is misconduct. what you're doing is engaging in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit. >> come on, charlie. wait a minute. >> hold on. >> no, let him finish. >> i want to respond to that. >> he is saying i'm under investigation with two other individuals, that's what he's really talking about. if you look at his facebook, he's accusing me of being investigating. >> read the inquirer. >> two things here -- >> that's why rule 8.4, you're engaging in conduct that's dishonest. >> we've gotten in to the msd questions. i'd like charlie to tell us. he claims to be the watchdog for msd?

sewerage charges have doubled and there's been total -- read the issue there. >> it's not just the increase in rates because we are rebuilding the sewer system. >> of course. >> but the real issue there is the question of sam malone and his contract and the charge that you have been the patron, the mentor to sam malone and that this was not a legitimate contract. >> actually, that means absolutely nothing. let me just tell you why. mr. natel, if we got to go by association, mr. natel supported my campaign years ago. he gave me money. >> and i want my money back. >> okay. also, if we want to deal with association, also mr. natel gave money to jim tarbell, one of the lovers of the streetcar. so this man, he keeps walking associations.

i have nothing to do with the approval of their contract. since 1998, when i was on council, i fought to reform msd. so you just can't blame charlie winburn. if that was the case, i wouldn't have got elected. i have been one of the main reformers of msd. accusations. why did you give money to jim tarbell who is a socialist and a liberal. >> i don't think he's a socialist. >> jim is a good guy but he's a liberal. he's pro-choice. gay marriage, street cars. why would you do that and you call yourself a real republican. >> i am a real republican. i gave jim tarbell 35 bucks about 10 years ago. >> no, it was more than that. >> it was 35 bucks. >> i got the documentation. >> fine. i gave him 35 bucks because he

>> real republicans don't give money. >> hey, real rep pans don't rip off taxpayer's money. >> now we've introduced this other threat. in your campaign, and we have some of the literature we can put up. your slogan for this campaign is that you are a real republican. >> i am a real republican. >> in a year when that whole issue of what it means to be a republican is being hotly debated. >> oh yeah, oh yeah. >> so what does being a real republican mean about you and by implication, what are you trying to say about charlie? >> hey, i'm just saying real republicans are our guardians of the taxpayer's money. that's what i'm saying. and real republicans are careful. they're watchdogs. hey, it's not our money, it's the taxpayer's money, not ours. >> are you implying that charlie's not a real republican? >> you'll have to ask charlie that.

charlie claims that. i'm not disputing any of that. but i am just saying, hey, people are talking about this and the inquirer did a big story. this is not norbert natel saying charlie did this or that. read the inquirer. the only thing i put on my facebook is mostly what -- these are good reporters. and they're also saying that in the msd investigation, charlie's name keeps coming up. we don't hear about david mann. we don't hear about chris smitheren. amy murray. his name keeps coming up. >> this is why politics is so bad because of this man right here. because he goes around misrepresenting and he's dishonest making those statements. real republican is a code word for a lack of inclusion. he's saying he's born as a republican. what he's saying to me, look at me. look at charlie winburn, he's

not a real republican. >> you used to be a democrat, weren't you charlie? you were a democrat >> i'm not welcome by him and the party. we have people like him who don't welcome hispanics and -- >> instructor: oh, come on. >> you keep talking about the inquirer. look at the inquirer with you. it says retired judge natel -- since you want to believe in the inquirer. they're not giving out facts, they're actually writing stories. >> charlie -- >> why would you let go a child predator? >> i'm not going to respond to that nonsense. my wife calls and she's here today. she calls it charlie's nonsense.

when she gets those robo calls. >> according to the cincinnati inquirer, norbert natel didn't follow the law. >> do you want a chance to respond to that? >> no, i'm not going to respond to that nonsense. >> we need to take a break. we'll be back in just a few minutes. stay tuned after the break.

nanatelill return to talk a little b bit about the recorders office. >> welcome back.

one of the most intriguing races on the republican primary ballot on march the 15th is for the hamillen county recorder. very different backgrounds. one, the right to charlie winburn will be term limited out after 2017. and norbert natel is a retired hamillen county judge who was forced in to retirement because no one over 70 can run for a judicial seat in ohio. okay, let's continue. now let's talk about the recorders office. >> sure. >> so charlie, you have laid out something of a platform. >> yes. >> what do you think needs to be done to improve the recorder's office? >> that's why if everybody can

go to winburnforcountyrecorder.com, you'll be able to find out what i'm doing. >> we'll put that up later. >> number one, i want a vision. number two, i want to improve services. number three, i want to develop a seven-year business plan. as you know, being chairman of budget and finance committee with the city. i want to bring that leadership back. finally, i want to make the recorder's office more efficient. the very first thing that i'm going to do when i'm elected, is meet with the staff. i want to do a climate study. then ask for an audit of the entire department. by the way, dan, i'm the only one who can beat wayne coates. because mr. natel, they would love for him to be there. >> and trying to stay on topic here.

what do you see as has to be done if you become recorder? >> first of all, charlie just mentioned consultants or whatever studies. there will not be one dime of taxpayer money to go to any consultants. i'll tell you that. if people want to sit down with me -- and i'll do that. i'll sit down with people who use the office and say what can we do to improve this? they will not get one dime of taxpayer's money. i'll buy them lunch and that's all they're getting. i've had people approach me when the rumor was flying that natel is going to run for recorder, they come to me. oh, i'm a consultant, would you hire me? i said, heck, no. he said people need to get paid for what they do. i'm going to be consultant.

common pleas court, i was the chief administrator and chief judge. we didn't have one layoff or decrease in services. i did it with the cooperation of the other common pleas judges >> laying out a plan like charlie has or what you just said, these are the sorts of things they're talking about continuous improvement. and we'll get in to this in the fall when you're running against wayne -- one of you is running against wayne coates. >> i plan on it. >> i know. >> charlie, if you can get by with -- >> you're just so much fun. >> if you can get by what's going on now. >> going to eat natel up. >> they're going to eat charlie up. >> they're planning that you win. >> my democrat fans say they're all voting for charlie. they want to talk about msd in the fall. >> wonderful. >> that's what wayne coates wants to talk about.

>> we're not going back to that. >> okay. >> oh, come on. >> this is tv not the newspaper. >> what's the question? i'm sorry. >> i don't know what the question is. >> the question is, and we'll get to this in more in depth in the fall, but what would either of you say about the way wayne coates has run the office? is there some problem with the office at the moment or is it just everybody who wins wants to improve what's going on? >> let me respond because he's been talking a lot. >> what? that's all you do, charlie. >> we need to upgrade the office. we need to expand office hours. by the way, i'm not talking about hiring consultants. >> you can hire sam malone if you want. >> we're talking about hiring --

>> a lot of the records have been digitized under wayne coates. it's not like nothing has been happening. >> yes, but we can enhance it and move it down there. oh, by the way, dan, this man testified in the trial of a prominent lawyer. >> there he goes again. >> accused of -- >> there he goes again. >> let's talk about his friends. you ought to see the people who he runs with. >> you running with sam malone. what about that? what about your buddy sam malone? that's what i want to know about that. >> why did you let a child predator go? >> let me try to go back. >> yeah, let's go back. >> the question is, you've operated inside the courthouse as a judge, that's very different than a recorder's office. but what's your impression? do you think wayne coates has done something wrong or is it just a matter you want to take office?

in the recorders office. legitimate problems. i solve problems. one thing i would like to point out, there is a problem which would be one of the first ones. if you go in to other recorder's offices and people do that, whether it's butler or clairemont or whatever, it's very difficult to access this recorders office. so that would be one of the first things i would do to improve. >> it's difficult to access in what sense? oh, you mean if you're not here >> yeah, if you're not here, it's difficult. i've had lawyers come to me and say would you look in to that. so there's better customer service. i've had military veterans come to me and say hey, can you make sure our papers -- veterans have talked to me and i'm all for helping veterans

>> dan, having a clear vision of office is important. if you go on the website right now, it's interesting how it is on wayne coates. there's no vision statement about the office. there's no mission statement. >> isn't that declined in the ohio constitution? >> some of the stuff is. but we're talking about the seven-year plan where you don't have to each year worry about your budget. i would like to see that the general assembly pass a law where we can set up a foundation throughout ohio and raise money in the private sector. i'm not talking about using taxpayer dollars. you would have to get creative in order to create money. he's soft on wayne coates. >> is that necessary to raise additional private dollars? >> absolutely not. we'll use the money that we have. i'm not one of these guys that will go to the commissioners, oh, we need more money. we will operate efficiently with the budget we have. hey, i don't need this job and

i've told you that before. and if i have to kick in part of my salary, i'd be more than happy to do that. because people work there don't make a lot of money. you. >> sure. >> is what really is at base, you're both republicans running in the republican primary. is ultimately what's at base here just wanting to get more republicans back in the courthouse? wayne coates is one of the few democrats. >> first of all, he's not one of the few democrats. no, it's all about being a taxpayer's watchdog. seeing that public funds are spent properly. doing a good job and. wanting a job. i want that job so that i can demonstrate how to save money with taxpayers. >> retired judge natel should be returning for the treasure's office. >> the treasurer has already endorsed me.

cloud. >> who is that? >> mr. charles rubensteen. he endorsed you. he's talking about plans. he keeps throwing out these names. look at your friends. >> i only have 30 seconds to get to both of you. but i want to say there is one promise here, judge, i found on your facebook. that time of the year again. girl scout cookies. if i'm elected, they will taste the same but be calorie free. i swear. now i want to see that one. fulfill that campaign promise. >> i'll do it. i'll do it. >> okay. to learn more about these candidates in the race, check out norton natel's facebook page at natel4recorder. and winburnforcountyrecorder.com. >> i'm not going to shake your

hand. >> thank you. join us again next week as we talk to more of those on local ballot on march the 15th.

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