captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> lehrer: good evening. i'm jim lehrer. the obama administration considers taxing big banks to recoup some of the federal rescue money. >> brown: and i'm jeffrey brown. on the newshour tonight, judy woodruff gets two views on what should be done to hold financial institutions accountable. >> lehrer: then, the state of state budgets. we hear from six pbs correspondents around the

country. >> brown: three auto-related stories: a report from detroit, where manufacturers hope their new models will lure back customers after a very rough year. >> this is a second chance, and i'm personally grateful for this. i know all the employees at gm are grateful for the opportunity. we will not disappoint. >> lehrer: gwen ifill looks at automakers expanding into new markets, including china, now the world's largest. >> brown: and a conversation with a one-time auto worker, who became a pulitzer prize-winning poet. >> lehrer: plus, a look at sports and drugs, after home run king mark mcgwire admitted using steroids. that's all ahead on tonight's pbs newshour.

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>> and by the bill and melinda gates foundation. dedicated to the idea that all people deserve the chance to live a healthy productive life. and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> lehrer: there was word today the federal government will levy new fees on major financial institutions. it came as president obama faces public frustration over bailouts and bonuses. judy woodruff has our story. >> woodruff: on wall street

today, there was every expectation big banks will announce sizable profits for 2009 plus new bonuses for employees. in response, the obama administration is weighing taxes to recoup losses from the $700 billion bailout program and other measures to rescue the financial system. the still unconfirmed plan could also help pay down the deficit, and it might soothe public anger. >> definitely an outrage. it's obscene because we bailed out the banks. >> woodruff: most big banks that received public funds have repaid the loans, but others including insurance giant aig plus general motors and chrysler have not. and white house spokesman robert gibbs said monday the president is committed to sending a message to wall street. >> you've heard the president throughout the past year talk about the continued divergence from in all ways reality of what's going on on main street and what's going on in some of these firms in wall street.

they're folks that just continue not to get it. >> reporter: for the first nine months of 2009 five of the largest banks receiving federal aid set aside $90 billion for compensation, including salaries, benefits and bonuses. one of those was bank of america, an underwriter of the newshour. today the securities and exchange commission accused bank of america of failing to disclose huge losses at merrill lynch before buying it. the bank is already charged with hiding bonuses paid at merrill. still, the news of a possible bank tax was met with anger on wall street. where some saw it as a way to get at bonuses. jamie diamond, chairman of jp morgan chase told a washington conference on monday, quote, i'm getting tired of the constant vilification. this is not a casino.

still, the issue won't go away. the federal deposit insurance corporation said today that it may impose higher premiums on banks to discourage risky lending and investments. the question of whether to tax banks may not be limited simply the question of whether to tax banks may not be limited simply to costs associated with the so- called tarp program. all told, the federal reserve and the government committed several trillion dollars to the financial system at the height of the crisis. so what, if anything, should be done about the banks? we get two views. bert ely is a banking industry consultant who runs his own firm in northern virginia. and felix salmon is the finance blogger for thomson reuters. previously he worked for roubini global economics. gentlemen, thank you both for being with us. bert ely, to you first. what is your understanding of what form any tax or fee would take? >> well, this is all very big at this point in time, but it could be either a tax on financial transactions. it could be a tax on

high level executive pay. it may be a profit surtax or some combination thereof. at this point in time we simply don't know the specifics of these proposals. >> woodruff: in terms of whom it would be levied on. >> i would presume it will be levied on large financial institutions, banks, both commercial banks as well as investment banks. a big question is where would the line be drawn between large and small and that would be one of the controversial aspects of this proposal. who gets paid... who has to pay and who doesn't. >> woodruff: felix salmon, what's your understanding of what they're talking about? >> well, like bert, it's still very unclear. i haven't talked to anyone who knows what exactly is being planned. bert, i do think that this is essentially a bank... a tax on the biggest banks. it's a tax on being too big to pay. one of the key problems which led to the financial crisis. it's something which we want less of.

if you are too big, you're going to have to pay now. >> woodruff: the purpose would be what? if most of these banks or all of the banks have repaid the tarp money, what would the purpose be? >> well, as you said, they got much more benefit from the government than just the tarp money. the federal reserve injected trillions of dollars into the economy. the federal government went to extraordinary lengths to rescue the economy from the crisis which was largely caused by the actions of these banks. so all of that money, the extra money which to government spends, the reduced tax revenue which the government, thanks to the enormous unemployment across the country, the huge fiscal deficit which has resulted from the biggest recession since the great depression, this is an enormous sum of money. the only effect on the economy which is really making windfall profits right now is the banking industry. so it makes sense to tax them higher to help cover that gap. >> woodruff: as somebody who has followed the banking

industry for a long time, bert ely, is this a good idea? >> a terrible idea. first of all, the banking industry while it's had some good profits is still experiencing very substantial credit losses on credit card loans, mortgage loans, commercial real estate loans. the profitability of the industry is not that robust. but also this tax, whatever form it takes, could have significant unintend pd consequences not just on the institutions but on the economy as a whole. one of the things is banks will take steps to minimize the tax, possibly even including moving certain activities and jobs out of the united states in order to avoid the tax. >> woodruff: let me pick up on one of those points and come back to felix salmon. you say a lot of these banks are making money but he's saying they're really not as strong internally as it appears that they are. they're really not in any sort of shape to take on these

additional fees or taxes. >> if you asked the banks that's completely untrue. if you ask the treasury, completely untrue because they have repaid all of them pretty much have repaid the tarp funds that they took from the government. the only reason that the government let them repay that money is because they put their... they made sure that these banks are well capitalized, highly solvent. there weren't any problems the banks. if only in the wake of those , if only in the wake of the banks are showing that they're rich enough and wealthy enough to be able to repay all this money that the government is saying now you can afford to pay us back a bit more. >> woodruff: what about that? the reason that the banks have been able to repay the money is because they've raised a lot of additional capital from stockholders and much of that capital build-up is through capital rather than earnings. the banking industry still has a lot of losses to deal with. also if the government gets all its money back from the

banks plus interest and other profits, then the question is why should the banks be taxed additional amounts in addition to what they've already paid back. >> woodruff: do you want to respond to that, felix? >> it's quite simple really. >> woodruff: go ahead. >> they should be paying back additionally because they caused additional damage to the economy as a whole. the cost to the government of banking industry failure during the credit boom is much greater than just the $700 billion of tarp. it was trillions of dollars in total. the banks, no matter how big this tax is, are only going to pay back a tiny fraction of that. >> the reason we've had this crisis is because of numerous public policy failures that sets this up. i think it's a little bit to lay all the blame for the recession on the banking industry, plus laying all this additional taxes on it may be harmful to the banks and harmful to the recovery. >> woodruff: felix salmon, a lot of people i've talked to

today believe the administration is talking about this right now because there is so much public anger out there about the banks, the bonuses, how much of that anger-- you're somebody who follows the conversation around the country. how much of that anger do you think would be assuaged, would be addressed if something like this were to be enacted? >> i think the anger is deep. i think that here in new york on wall street a lot of bankers really don't appreciate how deep that anger runs. across america. i think that if you implemented this kind of tax if it was large, people would think that was right. i think that americans would feel that made sense. i don't think it would make the anger go away. >> woodruff:. >> i think what we have to keep in mind is politics is driving this as much as anything else for exactly the point that felix made. there's a lot of anger out there. the polling numbers for the president are down.

democrats are concerned about losing seats in congress. i have to think that politics are driving much of this rather than sound economics. >> woodruff: felix salmon, the point that bert ely made a moment ago about unintended consequences that if some kind of tax or fee is slapped on these banks they're inevitably i believe he said going to pass this on to their customers, to people they do business with. >> well, it depends how the bank is structured really. if the tax is structured as a windfall tax on the massive profits they made in 2009, if it's a tax on how big they were at the end of 2009, if it doesn't recur, then it's the economics of their business is the same going forward as they would be if there hadn't been a tax. there's really no reason for them to pass that tax on to their customers. if the tax is going to continue to be enforced year and year out in perpetuity, then yes they'll probably pass it on. >> woodruff: final comment here. >> final comment. it will be an ongoing tax.

it won't be a one-off tax. banks will pass it through to their customers and to the economy as a whole. >> woodruff: we're talking about something that hasn't been enacted yet. it's only at the conversation level but the administration is saying they're seriously taking a lot at this. bert ely, felix salmon, thank you both. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> brown: now for the other news of the day. >> brown: now, for the other news of the day, here's hari sreenivasan in our newsroom. >> sreenivasan: it hit 14 miles from the capital city of port-au-prince. the u.s. geo logical survey said it had a magnitude of 7.0. reports that a hospital collapsed and that people were screaming for help. the quake also triggered a tsunami watch across parts of the caribbean. moments ago i spoke with dale grant of the usgs in golden, colorado. >> approximately an hour ago 4:55 local time which is the same as eastern standard time, we had a magnitude 7.0 quake

in the haiti area. approximately 15 miles west of port-au-prince haiti. now that is a very large population center of at least 917,000 people. this is one of the... well, it is the largest quake that we have seen in this area. it has the potential of pretty catastrophic damage. we've already had reports from cnn that a hospital in port-au-prince has collapsed entirely. this is an area that doesn't receive quakes of this magnitude all that often. and we are expecting that there be significant damage. there have been two fairly strong aftershocks of 5.9 and of 5.5, which is what we would expect. we would expect them to continue in the near future. >> sreenivasan: we'll have more information on the on-line newshour as it becomes available. a bombing in iran today killed

a nuclear physics professor . he had been a supporter of the political opposition. he was killed when a bomb strapped to a motorcycle blue up outside his home. government officials charged u.s. and israeli intelligence agencies for being behind it. a spokesman for the u.s. state department called the allegations absurd. in in saudi arabia, the government reported killing hundreds of shiite rebels from yemen on the saudi side of the border. the offensive began last november. and across the border, officials in yemen said government troops there killed at least 20 more rebels today. one of mexico's top drug traffickers has been captured on the baja california peninsula. teodoro "el teo" garcia simental-- in the red shirt-- was arrested early today. authorities said his gang has terrorized tijuana, even throwing rivals into vats of acid. another accused drug kingpin in mexico was killed last month by federal troops. a woman who helped hide anne frank from the nazis, and then rescued her famous diary, has died.

miep gies was an office secretary in amsterdam. for two years, she and others visited the frank family in their secret annex, bringing food, books, and news. she recalled anne in later years. >> what struck me most as ann's friend was always her curiosity. she always asked me every morning when i came in the hiding place about the things, what happened outside. >> sreenivasan: anne frank and her family were found and shipped to death camps in 1944. only her father survived. after the arrests, gies gathered up the girl's diary. it was published in 1947. miep gies was 100 years old. jean finnegan biden, the vice president's mother, was remembered today at a funeral mass in wilmington, delaware. president obama, former president clinton, and house speaker nancy pelosi were among those who attended.

vice president biden delivered a eulogy. >> when we triumph, she was quick to remind us that it was because of others. "there's no one better than you. every man is your equal, and every man deserves respect." that was her creed. >> sreenivasan: jean biden passed away last friday at the age of 92. those are some of the day's main stories. i'll be back at the end of the program with a preview of what you'll find tonight on the newshour's web site. but for now, back to jim. >> lehrer: and still to come on the newshour, the cars of the future, and who will buy them; an auto worker turned poet; and the tainted records of sports stars. >> brown: that follows our look at budget woes in states across the country, as legislators return to work and face even bigger deficits and tough decisions in 2010. the center on budget and policy

priorities, a non-partisan group, projects potential shortfalls of $350 billion nationwide over the next two years, with every state except montana and north dakota facing fiscal trouble. we take our own snapshot now with the help of pbs correspondents in new york, colorado, louisiana, oklahoma, idaho, and california: julie >> reporter: snow isn't the only thing piling up here. so is the state deficit. the forecast? a current year budget gap of $500 million is expected to grow to $9 billion by the end of the next fiscal year. the result of years of overspending and one-time fixes. democratic governor david patterson, considered a lame duck by some political observers, is having trouble getting the state legislature to agree on significant spending cuts. that's despite the fact the legislature is controlled by

his own party. things could freeze up even more since every state lawmaker is up for re-election this year. robert duffy is mayor of the city of rochester. >> cutting spending means making very unpopular decisions. that means jobs being cut. it means some services being cut. it means bureaucracy being minimized and cut through. those things have to happen. they're not easy. it's painful but it has to happen. i think politically i think everything everybody has to have the strength to do that. >> reporter: in december as tax collections continued to decline, the state started falling behind on payments to rochester as well as other municipalities, schools and nonprofit organizations across new york. and mayor duffy is expecting a lot less state money in 2010. last year at budget time, federal stimulus money and a long list of new state taxes and fees helped push the fiscal crisis back. now there are fewer options .

>> this is a winter of reckoning. >> reporter: governor patterson is warning deem cuts are the only way out of this storm. >> i'm tom bearden in colorado where the state legislature goes back into session tomorrow facing a budget shortfall of historic proportions. $600 million between now and the end of the fiscal year in june, a cumulative $1.5 billion by the end of the next fiscal year. already state employees have been forced to take unpaid furl owe days, some prisoners have been released early and mental health care services have been curtailed. on top of all of that the state has one of the toughest taxpayer bill of rights laws in the country. it limits the growth of the state budget and how much revenue the state government can keep. last week governor bill ritter announced he would not seek re-election and said that would give him more freedom to deal with future cuts. already on the table are potentially draconian cuts for colorado's institutions of higher learning. public schools face cuts of

about 6% and retirement benefits for public employees, like teachers, may be reduced. plummeting tax revenues also have had a huge impact on the nation's largest ongoing mass transit project, the fast track light rail system. voters approved a sales tax increase in 2004 to pay for it. but costs ballooned and revenue fell far short of projections. voters will probably be asked to double that tax to finish construction on schedule. >> right now what we're say ing is to get the whole thing built out by 2017, our original schedule, it's going to take another 4 tenths of a sales tax increase. if we do not get more revenues into the program, then it's going to be after 2035 that the whole fast track program is realized. >> reporter: local pundits say asking for a tax increase this fall in the midst of a recession could be a very tough sell. >> i'm shauna sanford with the louisiana public broadcasting. experts have called

louisiana's budget crisis the worse they've seen is more than two decades. the 2009 tax revenues were down leaving the state with less money to spend in 2010. and a nearly $250 million hole in the budget. this comes on the heels of a $1.6 billion cut last year and projected shortfalls to the state general fund over the next two years totaling nearly $3 billion more as federal stimulus dollars go away. deep cuts will have to be spread across many state agencies including $84 million from higher education and $108 million from health care. republican governor bobby jindal said hard decisions will have to be made within the coming weeks and months. the bottom line he says is that state government will simply have to tighten its belt. by law the governor must balance the state budget and can mandate 3% cuts to state agencies without legislative approval. while the governor and lawmakers figure out what they'll do to handle the state's budget woes

the governor says there are two things he will not do to fix the problem. use the state's rainy day fund or raise taxes. >> i'm lori rasmussen in oklahoma city. in a state where energy reigns supreme falling oil and gas prices have led to a budget shortfall of more than 18%, the biggest budget gap in the nation. that has forced state agencies to furl owe employees and eliminate programs and services. among the casualties are deep cuts to a senior nutrition program, elimination of education and reentry programs for prison inmates, a gang prevention and intervention program that reduced drive-by shootings by as much as 61% and a reduction in services to victims of domestic abuse. schools in oklahoma are cutting bus routes and trimings administrative and support staff. the cuts to mental health services for low-income adults brought that agency head to tears. >> all the folks here know that i actually do cry about these things because these are real people. that we're looking at. sometimes we miss that at the capital.

i know y'all struggle with aate low of tough decisions but what i want to tell you is if this committee doesn't stand up for this agency, nobody will. >> reporter: the legislature goes back into session the first week of february, and the bunk it will be the number one item on the agenda. how lawmakers will resolve the budget shortfall remains a mystery. raising taxes is for all practical purposes off the table. in oklahoma, all new taxes must be approved by a vote of the people or by a super majority of the legislature and that's an unlikely vote in an election year. >> in boise idaho i'm thank tan. the legislature is back in session and grappling with questions over the proper role of state government. especially when there's a $40 million hole to fill just halfway through this fiscal year and possibly another $83 million in cuts to stay out of debt next year. >> so we're compiling a report. >> on monday inside the newly renovated capital, governor told idaho voters they can

expect no increase instead sweeping changes to state government. >> those changes are meant to be permanent based upon a philosophy that government that recognizes our responsibility to individual idahoians rather than to government itself. >> reporter: to save $10 million he is pushing to close the idaho parks and recreation department in favor of a system funded by user fees and maintained by other departments. the governor's recommendations include a four-year plan to eliminate all state funding for seven agencies and commissions including the department i work for, idaho public television. and for the first time public schools face nearly $29 million in mid-year budget cuts. the handful of democrats in this legislature oppose that proposal. >> that means literally closing schools one day a month. and that is a huge concern that at times when we need our schools more than ever. >> reporter: the governor contends education already takes up more than half the budget. there's no choice. >> where else would you have

me cut. >> reporter: the senate president acknowledges this will be a contentious year. >> we can only spend the available revenues that we have to us. >> reporter: he's talking about idaho's constitutional mandate to balance the budget. it may be the key to a legislative session everyone wants to keep as short as possible. >> i'm spencer michels in san francisco. it's governor schwarzenegger's last year in office and from all accounts it won't be pretty. california is facing a $20 billion budget deficit over the next 18 months. that on top of last year's even larger deficit. the governor came in to office vowing to sweep sacramento clean and to promote bipartisanship. but most observers agree that hasn't happened. the governor is asking for nearly $7 billion in federal funds. but there's no guarantee he will get it. he is asking california's congressional delegation to vote against health care reform because he says

california can't afford it. >> it is not reform to push more costs on the state that are already struggling while other states are getting sweetheart deals. >> reporter: he wants a constitutional amendment that will guarantee schools will get more money than prisons. >> spending 45% more on prisons than use s is no way to proceed into the future. >> reporter: state employees already furl oweed without pay three days a month may be in for more non-paid days off. all of this promises a continuation of the partisan battles in the legislature which has been unable to solve the budget mess. that's because it takes a two- thirds vote of the legislature to pass a budget. that allows the minority party, in this case, the republicans, the ability to hold up the wheels of government. the governor says that the recession is mostly over, but the picture for california remains bleak. >> brown: we have more about how local governments are

handling the fiscal crisis on our website including an interview with susan uron of the pew center on the states. >> lehrer: next, detroit throws a sobering auto show. we begin with this story from special correspondent diane eastabrook of the pbs program the "nightly business report." >> reporter: in detroit, size suddenly matters. at the north american auto show g.m. rolled out the granite concept, the tiny sport utility is a dramatic departure from the brand's typical mammoth truck. it will feature a four cylinder engine and will be more fuel efficient than larger sports utilities and crossovers. g.m. north america president calls it the wave of the future. >> you don't have to go to a car that you find inside of a cereal box sizewise here to get the fuel economy and fund to drive and the safety and all that stuff. we're doing that. >> reporter: over at toyota

there's the concept of scale- down version of the prius. toyota isn't sure if it will build the car but if it does the company said it will be more fuel efficient and less expensive than the prius. the tiny hybrid could capture less affluent buyers. >> there are consumers telling us they would like a vehicle a little bit more compact, more in line with a corolla-sized vehicle versus prius which is similar to a camry size vehicle. >> reporter: this dramaticdown sizing reflects an industry and an economy struggling to recover from one of the worst recessions in three decades. two u.s. auto companies, g.m. and chrysler, went bankrupt last year. and it needed a bailout from washington. that brought government leaders like house speaker nancy pelosi to the show floor to see what the industry is trying to do to turn itself around. even though the u.s. lost its title last year as the largest buyer of vehicles to china, it still remains an important market for manufacture.

so they're racing to build more fuel-efficient products americans will want and can afford. ford has perhaps the best advantage with the focus. it's already been a hit with consumers and gets a face-lift next year. the new focus will have a new two-liter engine that offers more horsepower than the current model and should have better fuel economy. manufacturers don't estimate fuel economy on a vehicle until it's ready to come to market. ford admits avoiding a government bailout has helped it attract customers away from g.m. and chrysler. but president of the america's mark fields thinks product has more to do with the company success. >> at the end of the day customers are going to buy our product not because we didn't take government money, it's because when they look at our products, the value, the design, the safety, the fuel economy, all those kind of things, more and more customers are coming into our show room and saying i choose ford. >> reporter: this show is as much about what isn't here as

what it is here. gone are iconic g.m. brands like pontiac, saturn, saab and hummer. all victims of the company's recent bankruptcy. general motors is now focused on its remaining brand. chevrolet, gmc, buick and cadillac. he thinks the company will lure consumers back to dealerships if it repays the government part of its money by mid year. >> this is a second chance. i'm personally grateful for this. i know all the employees of g.m. are really grateful for the opportunity. we will not disappoint. i'm a tax tier 2 by the way. i want to pay back the tax payer too. everybody in this company wants to do that too. >> reporter: chrysler which also came out of bankruptcy last year is at the show but doesn't have anything new to show. fiat now has a majority stake in the company and plans to roll out new chrysler products in a couple of years based on its platform.

one other noticeable change this year, a lack of glitz. except for volkswagen's rollout, the show was short on flash and futuristic products. that disappointed motor trend 's detroit editor. >> it gave us a good idea of where the auto companies were headed or what they were thinking about. they would get a reaction from people who came here during the public days. i think a lot of the people will end up missing that. on the other hand given what general moaters and chrysler went through this year and given what the entire auto industry has been through in the last year, i should say, i think a little bit more of a down to earth attitude is what you would expect and what we're getting this year sflrt analysts think will be a recovery year for the auto industry. they estimate auto makers could sell 11.5 million vehicles in the u.s. this year. that's about a million more than last year. by then, they're optimistic the pie in the sky concepts he

likes will come back. >> brown: gwen ifill picks up on the auto story now with more on big changes for the big three. >> ifill: micheline maynard is senior business correspondent for the "new york times," and has written two books about the automotive industry, most recently, "the selling of the american economy." she joins us from ann arbor, michigan. welcome. >> is the boasting all over in detroit now? >> well, it's definitely a more subdued atmosphere, gwen. i remember auto shows when there were jeeps crashing through plate glass windows and mini-vans dropping from the ceiling and lots of dancers and pretty girls and pretty guys too. but this year it was deaf tonightly a lower-key atmosphere, probably fitting. >> ifill: the volkswagen dancers didn't do it for you, i'm think something. >> well. >> ifill: has the culture changed forever in detroit now? >> everybody here is getting their arms around the idea that they'll never be as big as they once were. it's really easy to see if you just look at the car sales

figures. as the report said, we sold about 10 million vehicles in the united states. last year. people think we'll sell about 11 million this year, 11.5 million. about five years ago the industry sold 17 million vehicles. so it's down 40%. you look at all the factories that have closed all the people who have lost their jobs, the grants that have... the brands that have gone away and you can see things are a lot smaller here. >> ifill: who are the big three's biggest competitors now? obviously china is coming up big. >> if you look at it on a global basis, you absolutely would say china. i think that's a huge surprise to a lot of people. i remember maybe ten years ago or 20 years ago that volkswagen was actually the biggest brand in china. then there were joint ventures with other car companies. now you're seeing the chinese market itself sort of breed its own car makers. some of them are here at the detroit show.

i went for a walk on the show floor yesterday. i walked past ford. i walked right into a display for a chinese company called byd or build your dreams. it was showing its electric car just kity corner from where ford would be. a year ago they would have been in the basement. >> ifill: electric cars and hybrid cars, that's the future? >> well, actually i own a toyota pri, so i would say yes they are the future. they were certainly front and center at this show in probably a way we've never seen before because all of the companies... it wasn't just the asians talking about hybrids or the germans talking about diesel hybrids. it was every single car maker. in fact, the two vehicles from ford that won the north american car and truck of the year awards were hybrids. honestly, i never thought i would see that happen. >> ifill: is ford the only american company that didn't take a government, a big government aid? are they feeling kind of smug? >> well, ford has

always made quite a bit of the fact that they did not take a government bailout. they sort of absented themselves from the whole situation pretty early on. i think they realized when the ceos went to congress and started to get picked on for flying their private planes that it was probably not a good idea to be in line for government money. so ford seems to be feeling very confident these days. they've got a lot of new vehicles coming. i think their market share is coming back a little bit. they actually had an improvement last year. i'm sure they're hoping for more of an improvement in 2010. >> ifill: you mentioned the ceos. both chrysler and g.m. have new ceos. has that affected their focus, their goals, what they set out to do? >> i think people at g.m. and chrysler are a little bit shell shocked because if you think about a year ago, they had a ceo named bob nardelli who had actually come from the outside.

he had come from home depot. at least they were used to seeing him. he had been there for a little bit over a year. now there's no american or even north american as a ceo at chrysler. it's run by the fiat, the head of fiat who is essentially an unknown figure to people here in detroit. at general motors the ceo is ed whitaker. he was the former ceo at at&t. the government asked him to be chairman when general motors got their bailout. he essentially replaced the ceoate at general motors from last year, fritz henderson. even if you think back to last year's show rick wagoner was still the ceo at general motors. >> ifill: bottom line after this year of government aid and credit year of tough times no more happy talk in detroit. >> this is always a place that runs on optimism. hopes and dreams are always part of the d.n.a. in detroit. people aren't walking around in hair shirts or anything like that. it's a sober atmosphere.

i do think that that's appropriate given that two companies went through bankruptcy were still in a deep recession. we don't know when we'll be climbing out of it. >> ifill: micheline maynard of the "new york times," thanks again for joining us. >> thank you, gwen. >> brown: and now a very different auto story, through poetry. >> we stand in the rain and a long line waiting at ford highland park for work. you know what work is. if you're old enough to read this, you know what work is. although you may not do it. >> brown: at 82 philip levine is author of some 20 volumes of verse and one of the nation's most honored poets. with a pulitzer and numerous other prizes. but he started life in detroit working in auto plants. sometimes waiting in line for a job as he describes in his poem, what work is. >> this is about waiting. shifting from one foot to another. feeling the light rain falling like mist into your hair.

blurring your vision. until you think you see your own brother. ahead of you, maybe ten places. >> brown: these feel familiar to you. levine recently joined me at the yancey richard senegalery in new york. he had written an essay for an exhibition of photographs by andrew moore that capture a lost world of detroit. an old school, homes, and factories including ford's river rouge plant where levine himself once worked. >> when i was a young guy working in these places and didn't see a way out as yet and i certainly didn't think the way out would be poetry. >> brown: what were you doing? >> usually five people would take an enormous piece of hot steel which four of us would hold with tongs and put it into a huge press.

what it was i didn't know. >> brown: really? >> no. i didn't know. i remember a young guy from west virginia, a young kid. he said to me, what are we making? that's what he said to me. what are we making? i said i'm making $2.15 an hour. i have no idea what you're making. he said, no, what are we making out of this here metal? i said to him, i don't know. i never ask. and i called the foreman out. his name was lonnie. i have a strong memory about this. lonnie, what are are we making with this here metal? he said something like, "stop screwing off and get back to work." >> brown: don't ask questions. >> i wondered if he knew. >> brown: what was poetry then? i mean, where did the poetry come from? >> no one knows where poetry comes from. i had been writing poetry from the age of 14. it was just something i loved doing. i loved language. i recognized that i had a facility for it.

my teachers praised me to the skies which was wonderful. >> brown: levine graduated from wayne state university and left the auto plants behind. he taught at fresno state in california for many years , and he and his wife frany now divide their time between fresno and new york. you've kept writing about detroit to this day. you've kept writing about work. did that become a kind of mission almost if that's the right word? >> one thing i was struck by very young in my middle 20s, very young. was that i didn't see any work , written work, about this experience. as far as poetry, zero. so i actually did at one time say to myself, hey, there's a whole world here untouched. >> brown: this should be a subject for poetry. >> it should be there, yeah. it should be there. my attitude toward the work

changed enormously over the years. at the time i hated it. in my late 30s and early 40s, i realized that this world i thought would stop me from writing a decent body of poetry had in fact become central to my writing poetry. i began to feel that i was really in some ways very fortunate especially meeting the people that i met. >> brown: a lot of your poems tell stories about people from the past and work. there's one even in the current collection, an extraordinary morning. would you read the beginning of that. >> sure. an extraordinary morning. two young men you just might call them boys waiting for the woodward streetcar to get them downtown. yes, they're tired. they're also dirty and happy. happy because they've finished a short workweek. if they're not rich, they're as close to rich as they'll

ever be in these times. >> brown: over the decades, philip levine has written about many subjects and places, engaged with politics and events around him, he writes as he titled his most recent book, the news of the world. >> we started out talking about your life in the factories. many years later, you've made a life as a poet. does that surprise you? >> oh, god, yes. i mean, i'm stunned. one of the things that made it happen was pure luck. on my 26th birthday, i met my present wife. how many women could stay with a guy who has no prospects and wants to write poetry and stay with him now 55 years? sometimes she worked so that i could get home and scribble. she honors what i'm doing. i think that is the most crucial thing.

to be honored. as a poet. even... not by a nation because a nation is going to have distractions but just to be honored by this person or that person or especially by your wife or your brother or your mother , father. i mean it's just fantastic. i keeps you going in a way that nothing else could keep you going. >> brown: philip levine, nice to talk to you. >> thank you. >> lehrer: and finally tonight, the confession of a home run king, and the steroid era in sports. newshour correspondent kwame holman begins with this update. >> down the left field line. is it enough? scores! >> reporter: after more than a decade of denials, mark maguire has come clean about using steroids when he broke the single season home run record. >> i apologize to everybody in

major league baseball. my family. bud selig. >> reporter: maguire hit 70 home runs in 1998 with the st. louis cardinals, eclipsing the record of 61 set by roger maris in 1961. on monday he told bob costas on the major league baseball network that he used the drugs solely to maintain his health. >> you have hit 70 home runs. could you have had a home run ratio greater than anything babe ruth did in his time without using steroids? >> absolutely. i suitely believe so. i was given this gift by the man upstairs. >> reporter: the rumors of steroid use that swirled around maguire during his playing days followed him into retirement including at a congressional hearing in 2005. >> i'm not here to discuss the past.

i'm here to be positive. >> reporter: but last fall maguire was named hitting coach for the cardinals. he said he knew he finally had to answer the question. but all-time home run leader barry bonds, who hit 73 homers in 2001, has denied he knowingly took enhancing drugs. he faces federal perjury charges over the issue. retired slugger sammy sosa, who is sixth on the career home run list, also denies using steroids. and so does retired pitcher roger clemens who won the cy young award seven times. in other sports, seven-time tour de france winner lance armstrong repeatedly has denied doping. but several other leading cyclists have been banned from the sport. and former u.s. track star marion jones served six months in prison in 2008 for lying to investigators about her steroid use. >> brown: david epstein has been

covering many of these steroids stories for sports illustrated. he's a staff writer there and helped break the alex rodriguez story last year. david epstein, welcome. so it's pretty much already well known and believed that mark maguire used steroids to... when he was hitting his home runs, right? >> that's right. i think when you go in front of congress and you tell them when they ask you if you used performance enhancing drugs you say you're not there to talk about the past it's pretty much the end of that story. it's been a foregone conclusion for a whi. >> lehrer: why did he finally come clean today or yesterday? >> well, going in, you know, he'll be going into the season as the cardinals' hitting coach. if he hadn't, this just would have been a protracted game of media speculation and criticism. i think he kind of opted to have this story burn brightly and briefly rather than just drag out and distract him from what was going on in the field and with the team he'll be working for. >> lehrer: what do you make of maguire's claim to bob costas that there's no connection between his steroid use and

the fact that he hit all these home runs? >> i mean it doesn't make any sense basically. i've talked to experts on steroid use and abuse very frequently. i know maguire said that he used it only for recovery not for performance enhancement. frankly even if he just wanted to use it because he thinks needles are fun it doesn't matter why he wanted to use it. the fact is steroids enhance your performance in baseball and in hitting the ball farther in many many different ways. there are actually preliminary studys that show even years after habitual steroid users stop using steroids their muscle enhancement remain even after they've stopped using. >> lehrer: is mark maguire going to pay any price or penalty for having admitted he did this? >> it doesn't look like it. i think he'll be greeted in st. louis with open arms. it would be a precedent if baseball were to strip him of any of his records because there are other slug he ...

sluggers who have tested pos positive or admitted to drug use and this haven't been stripped of records. you get into the dirty business of how to parse out justice basically. it doesn't look that way at the moment. >> lehrer: from the legal standpoint as we've said in the set-up piece marion jones went to jail for lying and barry bonds faces that similar charge but it wasn't... it's not for the drug use. it's for having lied to investigators or to a grand jury or something like that. is that correct? >> that's absolutely correct. mark maguire in front of congress didn't lie. he just refused to talk about the issue. marion jones never tested positive. it was just the investigation that got her. you're absolutely correct. >> lehrer: what about the comparison between mark maguire and the alex rodriguez case. this is of course the story of the star of the new york yankees. you covered that story and helped break that story. since then there's been manny ramirez of the dodgers.

both of them will still be playing baseball come spring, right? >> that's right. they have chances i mean as you've seen with alex rodriguez this year, he has a chance to keep hitting homers and people love you when you do that. the same thing with manny ramirez. he may be a little less so but he's still known as a happy-go-lucky guy. you get back to the field and you perform well. you know, manny was taking up a problematic drug for sports because it's undetectable. they're active. they can rehab rehabilitate their images in a way that mark maguire can't do anymore. >> lehrer: based on your reporting and your colleagues at "sports illustrated"'s reporting, what is the state of drug use in major sports right now? is there any way to measure that? >> there really isn't. what i actually found while i was reporting that alex rodriguez story is that even the players themselves really don't know. i know we have an image of sometimes a clubhouse and some of this has been perpetuated

by jose canseco's book. >> lehrer: he was a ball player who first raised this publicly or confessed and those hearings that we had the clip of where maguire went was the result of his going public, correct? i just wanted to make sure that was in the record. >> yeah, yeah. so some of his books kind of perpetuated this image of a barrel where you could grab a syringe in the clubhouse. everything that i've found suggests that steroid use is still pretty relatively secretive behavior when it comes to professional clubhouses and locker rooms. even the players themselves really have no idea who is using. you will find uniformly that the players who did use estimate that all the guys around them are using and the guys who don't use tend to estimate that a very few guys are using. really they don't know. >> lehrer: there's no testing regime in either of these major sports that can turn it up? >> there are testing regimes. i recently spoke with the national football league with

two retired strength coaches who worked a long time in the league for teams. they said human growth hor has become the drug of choice. that's their opinion. you can't test for that without blood testing that football, basketball and baseball are not doing blood testing. even the blood testing that a person at the olympics for growth hormone is limited effectiveness at the moment. marion jones never tested positive because of the designer steroid. there are a lot of ways to get by the tests. the drugs that manny ramirez took. he didn't fail a test. major league baseball to their credit caught him in an investigation. there are a lot of things you can do and not test positive. >> lehrer: and still do it as we speak. >> you can still do it. the drugs that manny ramirez was taking is a female fertility that in men raises your own level of your test test. they don't check for that. there's a lot of things that you can do with urine testing. the testing in the different

leagues is very different. there's been criticism of the out of competition testing in some of the leagues. your testing has to be incredibly rigorous. there's loopholes at the moment because of the technology. >> lehrer: david epstein, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> brown: a major earthquake shook the caribbean nation of haiti just west of port-au-prince. wire reports told of dozens killed or injured. cnn reported the presidential palace collapsed but the president and his wife escaped injury. the obama administration worked on a possible plan to levy new fees on major financial institutions. the newshour is always online. hari sreenivasan, in our newsroom, previews what's there. hari. and an interview with susan and an interview with susan uran

of the pew center on the states about how local governments are handling the fiscal crisis. judy woodruff blogs about a new study on how black americans measure progress one year into barack obama's presidency. on art beat, you can see more of jeff's conversation with poet philip levine. and a slideshow of photographs from the exhibit capturing the lost world of detroit. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. >> brown: and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm jeffrey brown. >> lehrer: and i'm jim lehrer. we'll see you on-line, and again here tomorrow evening. thank you, and good night. major funding for the pbs newshour is provided by: >> what the world needs now is energy. the energy to get the economy humming again. the energy to tackle challenges like climate change. what is that energy came from an energy company? everyday, chevron invests $62 million in people, in ideas-- seeking, teaching, building. fueling growth around the world to move us all ahead. this is the power of human energy. chevron.

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