captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> lehrer: good evening. i'm jim lehrer. a wrap-up of national security concerns around the globe in afghanistan; accusations of vast fraud in last summer's elections. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. on the "newshour" tonight, we'll talk to national security adviser, general jim jones about that and more. >> corruption is a serious issue. it's a serious... it's serious for us, serious for the afghan people.

>> lehrer: then, a debate about challenges to the new health care law between ohio attorney general richard cordray and attorney david rivkin. >> woodruff: ray suarez completes his reports from the south american nation of peru with the story about fighting aids. >> around the world, a small number of h.i.v.-positive people never see their disease advance. in peru, they're trying to figure out why. >> lehrer: and a poet david mason remembers a miners' strike in colorado nearly 100 years ago. that's all ahead on tonight's "newshour." major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> every business day, bank of america lends nearly $3 billion to individuals, institutions, schools, organizations and businesses in every corner of the economy. america-- growing stronger everyday.

>> this is the engine that connects abundant grain from the american heartland to haran's best selling whole wheat, while keeping 60 billion pounds of carbon out of the atmosphere every year. bnsf, the engine that connects us. the national science foundation. supporting education and research across all fields of science and engineering. and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and...

this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> lehrer: there were fresh developments today in several points around the world all critical to u.s. policymakers. margaret warner reports. >> reporter: president obama put foreign affairs back in the foreground this week with a surprise sunday trip to afghanistan. he privately urged afghan president hamid karzai to work harder on fighting corruption-- something karzai promised to do after his disputed re-election last fall. but today, karzai insisted the election fraud was not committed by his partisans. instead, he blamed top officials of the u.n. and the european union. >> ( translated ): this is the

reality, brothers. for this reason today, i come here to talk to the members of the independent election commission about fraud in the presidential election and provincial election. no doubt, there was huge fraud. there was vast fraud. the fraud is not by the afghans. this fraud has been done by the foreigners. >> reporter: karzai singled out american peter galbraith-- a former u.n. official in afghanistan. he was fired last year in a dispute with his boss over how to deal with fraud allegations. in washington, state department spokesman p.j. crowley did not comment directly on the accusation. instead, he put the onus squarely back on the afghan leader. >> karzai has to step forward, lead his government, you know, in terms of convincing the international community and the afghan people that they are taking measurable steps to reduce corruption. >> reporter: the karzai claim threatened to add to friction with washington, at a time when u.s. troops are building up for a major offensive against the taliban in kandahar.

president obama has been hoping for both military and political progress in afghanistan, as he tries to wind down the conflict in iraq. that effort in iraq could be complicated by the lack of a clear outcome of last month's parliamentary elections. prime minister nouri al maliki has claimed fraud, after losing narrowly to his main opponent ayad allawi, a secular shi-ite. both sides are now angling to form a governing coalition. today, a leading shi-ite religious party that placed third in the elections said it would not join any government without allawi as prime minister. separately, anti-american cleric muqtada al sadr said yesterday his supporters will hold a referendum tomorrow and saturday on their choice to be prime minister. in the meantime, u.s. diplomatic tensions continued rising with iraq's neighbor iran-- over its

nuclear program. iran's top nuclear negotiator arrived in beijing today, amid reports china may drop its longstanding opposition to imposing more sanctions on iran. at a news conference, a chinese foreign ministry spokesman would neither confirm nor deny the reports. instead, he said his government wants iran to cooperate with the u.n.'s nuclear watchdog-- the international atomic energy agency. >> ( translated ): we oppose iran having nuclear weapons. at the same time, we believe as a sovereignty it has rights to use peaceful nuclear energy. but any country, even if they develop nuclear projects for peaceful purposes, they should accept the supervision of the i.a.e.a. so as to ensure the program is for a peaceful purpose. >> reporter: on tuesday, president obama and french president sarkozy met in washington and said they want the u.n. security council to act soon on new sanctions. >> my hope is that we are going to get this done this spring.

so i'm not interested in waiting months for a sanctions regime to be in place. i'm interested in seeing that regime in place in weeks. >> reporter: a change in china's position could clear the way for action by the security council. china's relations with the u.s. had been strained of late over american arms sales to taiwan, and other issues. but beijing announced today that chinese president hu jintao will attend a nuclear security summit in washington later this month. >> woodruff: we'll have an interview with white house national security advisor, jim jones after the other news of the day. for that, here's kwame holman in our newsroom. >> holman: record floods in the northeast and new england receded some today leaving widespread damage behind. rhode island was hit the hardest with entire communities transformed into lakes. the state already had double- digit unemployment and governor don carcieri said the deluge will only make things worse. >> we're going to have enormous

costs in the loss of business. businesses cannot operate. people are out of work. we already have enough of that. there are big issues there. >> holman: parts of interstate 95 were due to reopen in rhode island, after being submerged. but amtrak suspended some trains for a second day. new federal rules for gas- mileage and auto emissions became final today. beginning in the 2016 model year, automakers' vehicles are to average at least 35.5 miles a gallon. that's better than current standards by about ten miles a gallon. cars and trucks also come under new limits for carbon dioxide emissions. the milestone in washington came as japan's first mass-market electric car went on sale today. mitsubishi produced the four- seat, bubble-shaped vehicle. earlier this week, rival nissan began taking orders for its own

electric car. it's due out in december. and in the u.s., general motors plans to begin selling the chevrolet volt in december as well. march was a strong month for u.s. auto sales-- thanks to heavy incentives for buyers. nissan and toyota today announced gains of more than 40%. ford sales were up nearly that much. general motors and honda rose more than 20% each. chrysler was down 8%. wall street closed out the week on a high. the rally followed reports first-time jobless claims fell this week and factory output rose in march at the fastest rate in five years. as a result, the dow jones industrial average gained more than 70 points to close at 10,927. the nasdaq rose four points to close at 2,402. the markets will be closed tomorrow, for good friday. overall pay for corporate executives fell slightly last year. that finding came today in a survey done for "the wall street journal". it said executive compensation

has been down two straight years-- the first time that's happened in 20 years. at the same time, "the washington post" reported companies are ignoring federal guidelines and paying more executives in cash. the guidelines are designed to shift the focus of pay to longer-term corporate gains. the confessed killer of an abortion doctor in kansas was scott roeder has admitted he shot doctor george tiller last may at a church in wichita. he said the killing was justified to save the lives of unborn children. members of tiller's family were in attendance when roeder addressed the court today, before his sentencing. >> it is a duty of state of kansas to protect all the people, including those whom george tiller killed. had the courts acted rightfully, i would have not shot george tiller. the blame for george tiller's death lies more with the state of kansas than with me. the state of kansas permits, protects and promotes the slaughter of these children.

george tiller was their hitman. >> holman: tiller was the only doctor in kansas performing late-term abortions. his clinic closed after his death. a top vatican official today defended pope benedict the sixteenth against allegations he covered up sex abuse cases before he was pope. "the new york times" had reported on the vatican decision not to defrock a wisconsin priest in the 1990s. benedict then was in charge of investigating abuse cases. today, cardinal william levada-- an american-- took on the times, on the vatican web site. he wrote: "i am not proud of america's newspaper of record as a paragon of fairness." the pope made no mention of the scandals as he led a ceremony dedicated to the priesthood. it was part of holy thursday services at st. peter's basilica. millions of doses of swine flu vaccine may wind up being destroyed, if they go past their expiration dates. the centers for disease control confirmed today large quantities

of vaccine have gone unused. the government bought 229 million doses last year, but when the flu outbreak waned, so did demand. as a result, more than half the doses are sitting on shelves. this was census day in the u.s. -- the official day for americans to return their census forms. the survey-- conducted every 10 years-- is used to allocate u.s. house seats and more than $400 billion in federal aid. and india kicked off a campaign to count its estimated 1.2 billion people. the country's president submitted her household information to a census worker, at a ceremony in new delhi. those are some of the day's main and india kicked off a campaign to count its estimated 1.2 billion people. the country's president submitted her household information to a census worker, at a ceremony in new delhi. those are some of the day's main stories. i'll be back at the end of the program with a preview of what you'll find tonight on the newshour's web site. for now, back to judy. >> woodruff: still to come on the "newshour": state challenges to the health care law; peru leading the way on aids research and poet david mason tells the story of miners' strike nearly 100 years ago >> lehrer: but first, our interview with national security

advisor, retired u.s. marine general jim jones. i spoke with him a short time ago. general, welcome. >> thank you. it's good to be here. >> lehrer: thank you. on afghanistan, president karzai said today that foreigners, not afghans, were responsible for the vote fraud in the presidential elections last year. is that really true? >> well, i don't know the context of the president's remarks. i heard about them as you have, but to go back and revisit very briefly, there was an international election commission and a national one as well and they worked hand in hand together to go through the legality of the elections and i think president karzai deserves some credit for listening to the international election commission and following its advice and at the end of the day

we had a common position that the afghan election was legitimate and we had a president-- president karzai-- who was reelected for a second term. so i think the international oversight was fair and honest and i think we have a legitimate government and a strong partner to deal with. >> lehrer: so the u.s. has no evidence that there were foreigners who caused the fraud in the election? >> i don't... i have not heard of any and i don't think there's any hard evidence per say that foreigners were involved in manipulating the election. but as i said, i don't know the context of... >> lehrer: was this news to you, to hear this today, that president karzai would even say something like that? >> it was certainly surprising that it's happening now. in and around the election itself and as i recall in the results of the election in the heat of the moment there were

things that were said alleging certain things one way or the other but, frankly, i thought we were past that. i know the president thinks we're past it and we're working... we're moving on and working with this legitimate government. >> lehrer: you mean president obama is moving past that. >> correct. >> lehrer: you and president obama talked to president karzai when you made that surprise trip to kabul a few days ago. did you get the impression that president karzai now gets the message that you all are giving hip about corruption, that he's got to do something about it? >> well, i think, jim, there are a lot of very good messages that have been sent on both sides. i think president obama and president karzai have had several conversations leading up to this visit and will have several more.

president karzai is... has really shown that he understands exactly what needs to be done, what the international community expects in return from its investment and has a very clear sense of the commitment that the united states in particular is making to the long-term success of his country. we want them to succeed. corruption is a serious issue. it's a serious... serious for us, serious for the afghan people. good governance is part of it. fighting the war on drugs is part of it. provideing stable leadership at the local, regional, and national level is part of it. so it's a compendium of things. but corruption is one of them. >> lehrer: but you've made it pretty clear-- as did president obama-- that you're not satisfied with how far he's gone in this, right? president karzai? >> well, i... it would be wrong to say that we went to afghanistan to talk about

corruption. >> lehrer: sure. sure. >> we went to afghanistan to see the troops, thank them for their heroic sacrifice and also meet president karzai and one of the beneficial sidelines was we met quite a few members of his cabinet and we heard them speak, which was another issue that we could develop, if you'd like, because it was very interesting. but on the issue of corruption in particular, it's been the clear concern of ours for a long time. it's a clear concern of the afghan people, and at every level level of that society i think president karzai has already put into place a mechanism whereby authorities are delegated to tackle a corruption problem. it is recent, but it is a positive step. it's one that we applaud him for and, of course, now, t question is we'll watch and see how it's implemented. but he has taken that step

of empowering authorities to focus on corruption. >> lehrer: still a ways to go, though. >> of course. it's very embryonic but at least... >> lehrer: very embryonic. >> at least it's a step. >> lehrer: a lot of americans don't understand exactly when the word corruption is used in reference to the afghan government. give us an example of what you consider the most serious corruption that still exists in afghanistan that president karzai's got to do something about. >> well, i think the most far-reaching effects of corruption is the corruption that affects the people. you know, you can talk about government contracts and the high-end things which are deplorable and need to be stopped when we find them. but we're really... where it really affects the mind-set of the people and where whether they're going to support president karzai and the democratically elected

government and respect us by association with that government is when the people themselveses are impacted by having to pay bribes to do business or pay off officials or pay police for protection or do those things that they have so little money anyway, do those things that they have to have a corrupt relationship with a local official in order to exist. and that is something that they massively reject and it's something president karzai heard about when he visited the marjah region and talked to the people. he was very surprised-- his own words. he was very surprised at how passionate the citizens were about the corrupt police that they had been subjected to for a long time and he went back to his capital and was very agitated about it and made some positive statements and we hope he'll take positive action. >> lehrer: would it be correct

to say you were a little bit surprised that the president of afghanistan did not know that this was going on in his own country until the american marines came into marjah? >> president karzai is a smart man. i think he knows, but i think that that had an affect on him. and i'm gad it had an affect on him. i think president obama'sry assured that he was positively moved to go back to his capital and empower some of his officials who were focusing uniquely on this. so i think he should be applauded for doing that . but, again, we'll have to wait and see how far it goes . >> lehrer: more generally, does president karzai understand and appreciate what cost the united states is contributing to the effort in afghanistan in terms of american lives, in terms of american resours for helping him get from here to there in his government? >> i think he does. i know that the senior leadership in his cabinet who

i've worked with for a number of years now also appreciate that and so i think the sacrifice is recognized. i also think that in president obama he is someone who has clearly said that it is time for afghans to take more control of their own destiny and has... and that's why the strategic review that took most of 2009 is now in the implementation phase and it has a larger piece of responsibility for governance, economic development, and security with the afghans stepping up to the plate to take charge of their own destiny, as they achieve that capability. >> lehrer: on iran and sanctions. these new signs the last few days, is it correct to interpret china... interpret china's actions that they may, in fact, go along with tougher sanctions

against iran? >> well, i think the accurate way to report on where china is is that they have participated in ministerial level meetings at the p-5 level by telephone conference . president hu has accepted the president's invitation to come to the nuclear summit that we'll be having here in april. and the dialogue between us and the other members of the p-5 plus one, which is united kingdom, germany, france, germany... i'm sorry, united kingdom, germany, france, russia, china and the united states, that dialogue has been continuing. and china has signaled... is increasingly signaling that it understands full well the importance of the moment with regard to iran and the potential of nuclear weapons and a nuclear

arms race potentially in the gulf region. >> lehrer: and that's new, is it not, general? >> well, i think it's evolutionary. but we... those talks have been going on between us and the chinese and the russians and our friends in europe. and so we're seeing a positive, thoughtful approach and we welcome it. we'll see where it takes us. but clearly president obama has done exactly what he said the united states would do with regard to iran. we waited all of 2009 for them to show their hand and their willingness to accept a very reasonable offer by the "eyeopener," they have not done... i.a.e.a., and they have not done so and so now we've said we're going to do what we said we were going to do which is get a very tough sanctions regime if iran doesn't change its course. >> lehrer: general, also in the news today, the somalia piracy.

a u.s. navy ship sunk one of the pirate ships and captured some of the pirates. what's going on over there. why is the u.s. doing it and can we expect more of it? >> well, this seems to be a... this has spikes, peaks and valleys. but clearly not just the u.s. but other countries have also decided that they're not going to let these pirates attack shipping while we have the means to prevent it. and i think it's... i think those people who do that are taking a serious risk where the united states is concerned. we have a fairly clear policy on how we view these things and i think it's an appropriate response to... >> lehrer: and there could be more of them if there are more pirate attempts. what they do is take the ships and hold them for rand? , right? >> correct . >> lehrer: is it not possible to stop this?

>> it is a problem that emanates from a country that unfortunately is fairly lawless, very tribal, and, you know, i think shipping companies have to take stock of the risk that they run when they navigate too closely to the area of operations for the pirates. but this hasn't been a... this was a problem last year about this time and we're hoping that it's not going to reoccur. it's been fairly quiet for a while. but last year we took some pretty strong measures and that sent a good message and... but these are pirates, they're thugs and bandits and they're going to do what they can... they think they can get away with. >> lehrer: finally, general, a personal question about you . you're a national security advisor, you've been there 14 months now.

i read a story today in the "financial times" that says you may be gone by the end of the year. that you're frustrated sometimes in your work and all this other stuff. did i read this story correctly or is that. >> well, you know, i wish that someone would talk to me about it, i would have given them a straight answer. i serve at the pleasure of the president. i came out of retirement to be of assistance. i think the n.s.c. that currently is in operation is the reflection of how he would like us to work. and it's also a reflection of the 21st century challenges that we have to face, which are multiple. so we have a system that's fairly centralized in terms of planning and fairly decentralized in terms of execution, which is what we'd have to do to address the multiplicity of challenges that roll at us everyday. i am blessed to be supported by

some extremely talented people who rightfully should get credit for being the faithful servants that they are, public servants. it's an honor to be... to working as the national security advisor and my job is make sure the president is satisfied and i have no reason to think he's not. >> lehrer: okay, so you're not going anywhere. >> i have no plans to go anywhere. at least in the near future. but, you know, we'll see what happens. i'm gainfully employed every single day and i'm enjoying what i'm doing. >> lehrer: general jones, thank you very much. >> thank you. thank you, jim. >> woodruff: well before

president obama signed the national health care overhaul into law, opponents at the state level were preparing a challenge in federal court. florida's attorney general, republican bill mccollum has been joined by his counterparts in 13 other states. all but one is a republican, and several are running for governor. the crux of their case: the mandate that americans buy insurance is a violation of the u.s. constitution's commerce clause. >> the freedoms of americans and particularly in my state of florida were impaired by this bill and it forces people to do something in buying a health care policy or pay a tax or a fine, that simply, the constitution does not allow congress to do. >> woodruff: under the law, most americans must have health insurance by 2014 or pay $95 or 1% of their income, whichever is greater.

by 2016, the penalty increases to $695, or 2.5% of income. on tuesday, more than 250 people rallied in montgomery, alabama. they called for amending the state constitution to supercede the federal plan. more than 30 other states are considering similar "opt-out" clauses. and virginia has already passed one. because of that, virginia's attorney general-- republican ken cuccinnelli-- has filed a separate lawsuit against the federal government. >> i'm doing exactly what i said i was going to do when i ran for office and i got more votes then anybody running for attorney general in virginia history. people of virginia knew what they where getting when they elected me. >> woodruff: when president lyndon johnson signed medicare into law 45 years ago, it, too, ran into opposition from the states. in some cases, because it required racial integration of

publicly funded hospitals. those challenges failed, and many legal scholars say this new batch of state lawsuits will fare no better. and at the white house, presidential aides maintain none of the cases bears any legal merit. >> i think that for many decades, the supreme court has recognized congress authority under the commerce clause to regulate activities relating to interstate commerce. my advice from counsel is that we'll win these, we'll win these lawsuits. >> woodruff: there's also push- back from within some of the state governments that are suing. michigan governor jennifer granholm-- a democrat-- defended the health care reform law yesterday. >> i think so many people oppose it because they're not sure what's in it and because understandably it is complicated. >> woodruff: and some in cash- strapped state houses are wary of taking away the new health benefits or of funding a long legal battle when budgets are tight. >> one, it's not in the best

interest of the state; two, it won't be successful, so don't waste that time and resources, and why don't we let our louisiana citizens start to benefit from this legislation. >> woodruff: the states' lawsuits are expected to end up before the u.s. supreme court. we join that legal debate now with david rivkin, a washington d.c. litigator and a former counsel with the reagan and bush administrations. he is assisting the 14 state attorneys general with their constitutional challenge. and richard cordray, ohio's attorney general, who this week announced he believes these lawsuits have no merit. gentlemen, thank you beth for being with us. david rivkin, i'm going to start for being with you because you are representing the people who are putting the challenge forward. as i understand it, two main arguments here. one of them is that you believe it's unconstitutional to require people to buy insurance. why is that unconstitutional? >> it's unconstitutional as a matter of fundamental principle and relevant case law.

it's a matter of fundmental principle. the aspect of a constitutional architecture is that the. from is a government of limited e tphaoupl aive the power. that was made by james madison in the federalist papers who said the powers of the federal government are few and well defined. the powers retained by the states are numerous and indefinite. if you have an infinitely broad commerce clause under which commerce can legislate it would absolutely eviscerate state authority to have any independent regulation and there's cases-- very recent cases-- 5-4 decisions including "lopez" which struck dun the gun free school zone act and "morrison" which struck down key portions of the violence against women act that says very clearly that an opinion of justice kennedy that was still in the court. >> woodruff: these are recent cases before the court? >> very recent cases that says there have been to be meaningful cases. >> woodruff: and you're arguing this requirement people buy insurance exceeds that requirement.

>> absolutely because it regular it regulates economic activities and compels people to engage in behavior they did not desire. >> woodruff: general cordray, why do you believe that it is constitutional. >> well, david is a top flight lawyer, i've red when what he's written on the subject and he makes very creative arguments but you'd have to find activist judges willing to tear up decades of precedent for these claims to succeed. the reality is that for 70 years since the depression, the court has been verper missive in terms of letting congress regulate interstate commerce and, of course, many things have become interstate national commercial problems such as health insurance, which is a national market and something that can't be regulated very well on a piecemeal basis, which is why congress stepped in here. >> woodruff: all right, if that's the case... >> all right. two points. nobody disputes that congress can regulate the market, the business of buying insurance, the terms of insurance, the conditions of insurance.

we're talking about here, though, compelling people to purchase something they did not desire merely because there's an economic footprint. let me reiterate the point powerfully articulate bid justice kennedy who is likely to be the swing justice here. there have to be meaningful limitations under the commerce clause. if you say-- as my colleague general cordray says-- that because a failure to purchase insurance has an economic impact, there's literally no activity known to man that would not have some economic impact that the aggregate would impact interstate commerce. it has to be an activity. >> woodruff: so you're saying it boils down-- at least in part-- to whether this is an economic activity. >> as distinct from something there's an impact. in the two leading cases... >> woodruff: let me just turn back to the attorney general, mr. cordray. can you respond to that particular part of his argument? >> yes, the court has said clearly that if an activity has significant economic impact such

as in 2005 the court upheld congress' ability to prohibit someone from growing and using marijuana for their personal use, no economic transaction whatsoever but they said it could affect the marketplace, that's good enough to be part of the commerce clause. the other point is david says that you can't compel someone to buy a product or to pay for health insurance. but, in fact, the first congress-- james madison was part of it-- passed a bill that required anybody who was going to serve in a militia to purchase a gun, gun powder, knapsack and ammunition to be able to serve. and then in 1798, the congress with many of their same founders in it passed a relief act for injured sailors which required them to pay out of their wages toward a rudimentary form of health insurance before there were any insurance companies. so this is long-standing historical precedent for this sort of thing and, in fact, i think the arguments are quite out of step with mod urn jurisprudence. >> woodruff: you want to respond to that very quickly.

"gonzalez v. reich" the activity involved, growing marijuana at home had no profit motive but it was the same activity as growing marijuana plantation typesetting interstate parks and selling it. the same was true in the wheat case, before you aggregate where general cordray is wrong, before you aggregate the impact it has to be an economic activity. not necessarily one of a profit motive, but an economic activity. and, again what he does, he reads out of existence "lopez" and "morrison" which is '95 5 and 2000 where the courts say there have to be meaningful limitations. >> woodruff: so clearly this comes down to case law, precedent, interpretation of the commerce clause. let me ask you both quickly about the other argument you make, david rifkin, and that is it's unconstitutional to require states to set up these insurance exchanges for people who don't have insurance. can you briefly explain to us why? >> there's a whole line of cases that is basically rooted in the

10th amendment that talks about states, again, retaining viable independent authority. it's called "new york v. united states." the case is called "prince" where you can not cooperate states. you can not commandeer-- which is a tomorrow of art-- state officials to perform tasks for the federal government. that's a very well established line of cases. aside from insurance exchange this is statute would compel florida and other states to spend billions of dollars of their limited resources, taking them away from environmental protection, taking them away from schools, that is not-- even if you didn't have a mandate, that part of a statute alone is clearly unconstitutional. >> woodruff: okay, then it's two points. but let me come back to the requirement, mr. cordray, that states set up these insurance exchanges for individuals who don't now have insurance. >> yeah, i agree with david there on the case law, but that's not, in fact, what this legislation does. it doesn't require the states to set up the exchanges, it gives them an option.

they can set up the exchanges. if they don't the federal government then has the responsibility to step in and set those up itself. and that's how the bill operates. very similar to the medicaid program. that's a voluntary program, all the states participate, they don't have to. if they do they get federal funding and cooperate with the federal government and the program. that's the spending david's talking about. it's the medicaid program and states have the option to participate or not as they please. they typically find it beneficial to their citizens and so they do so. >> very important to underscore medicaid began as a voluntary effort. we would argue that at this point in time you can not opt out of medicaid. it is not a viable choice for any responsible government. why? it would absolutely destroy the infrastructure... >> woodruff: but there's not a... but that's not a change in this law. they're expanding the number of people who are eligible for... >> they're changing medicaid in a way that would swamp medicaid rolls costing billions of dollars in the state revenue and, remember, states cannot print money like the federal government.

having the states hire thousands of people to administer it. large chunks of the state... of this whole regulatory edifice cannot be opted out of. >> woodruff: mr. cordray, you want to respond? >> sure. i understand the argument but i think you're right, judy, to point out the argue system one that the medicaid program itself now is unconstitutional because states really effect ily need to participate in it. but why do they need to participate if it? because they realize it's helpful and use to feel their citizens, they don't think they could do without it. that means they're all making the same choice, it doesn't mean they don't have a choice. >> woodruff: finally to david rifkin, what one hears about many of the legal opponents is that truly what this is all about is an opposition to health care reform and this is just another way of trying to undermine it. >> this is unfortunate. there are many worthwhile policy causes including carrying guns near schools after 9/11 increasing our ability to surveil the enemy where no matter how meritorious your policy goals are you have to

make sure you do it in a way that consists with our constitutional architecture. this is the american way. i don't understand the argument that because health care reform is a good thing-- which i would stipulate-- that challenging it is somehow wrong. there's a serious arguments. the "washington post" editorial page which is... >> woodruff: you said you believe health care reform is a good thing. >> of course! it's the question of how it's being done from a constitutional perspective. the "washington post" did an editorial page saying it's a serious lawsuit, it has merit, it ought to be seriously considered. >> woodruff: attorney general mr. cordray, what about this notion that whatever the merits, it must be challenged on these legal points. >> well, we work very hard in the courts to protect the states rights. we were in the supreme court week before last protecting our revenue system against the federal courts. i argued a case personally last fall protecting our criminal justice system against what we thought was a misguided federal ruling that upset a death sentence. but the bottom line is in many cases these are policy disagreements, they're deeply

held, they're very emotionally held, but those things should be hammered out in the political arena. we shouldn't run to the courts and bring litigation to solve these problems and we don't think this is a good use of taxpayer resources here in ohio. >> woodruff: richard cordray, the attorney general for the state of ohio, david rivkin here in washington, gentlemen, we appreciate it. thank you both. >> lehrer: ray suarez has the third in our global health unit reports on peru. this one is on the fight against aids. >> reporter: in the global war on aids, there's a new southern front in peru, and in the country's capital lima, an international investigation is taking shape. juan carlos hurado, a doctor specializing in treating h.i.v. infected patients, examines a very rare h.i.v.-positive patient-- one that is perfectly healthy. and the patient, who asked that we only use his first name, "hans" isn't just healthy now.

in the eight years since he tested positive for h.i.v., hans has never been sick, and has never been on medication. >> ( translated ): i feel normal just like anybody else and i just live as normal as possible. >> reporter: hans' unusual ability to stay healthy without medication has placed him in a special class of hiv infected individuals researchers call "elite controllers." this select group has the ability to control the h.i.v. virus by suppressing it. peru has identified 600 so- called elites whose h.i.v. infections have not progressed into life-threatening aids, and researchers are looking at them and other identified elites from around the world to understand why. dr. bruce walker at the ragon institute in boston is heading up the elite investigation. it's a joint venture with

m.i.t., harvard and mass general hospital. >> these are people that have no adverse effects from their infection that we can tell. they feel completely healthy. they didn't need to take medications. their cd-4 count, which is the measure of immune functions, that immune function is normal. and some of these people we now know have been infected for over 30 years and are still doing entirely well. >> reporter: walker hopes clues will emerge from studying elite controllers that will ultimately lead to an h.i.v. vaccine. >> if we had a vaccine that could keep the virus level as low as these people keep it, we would expect them to have much less chance of transmitting to someone else and much less chance of any kind of disease progression themselves. and that would basically reverse the epidemic if we could do that. so our goal in studying these

elite controllers is to find out how it is that they're able make hiv irrelevant to them and are able to control it on their own because we believe that therein lies the solution to the h.i.v. epidemic. >> reporter: so how did peru become one of the few centers around the world where they are trying to figure out how these people controller their virus? well, for one thing the government has been urging testing for years, and many know their status, and there's a well-defined group of what are called elite controllers, peru adds to the geographical diversity and this country also offers unique genetic diversity. >> i believe what we'll find is something that's common across these different groups. and that's certainly the hope, because ultimately what you'd like to do is have a vaccine that you can pull off the shelf and give to a patient here in boston and pull off the same

shelf and give to a patient in peru or south africa and have it be equally protective. >> reporter: globally, an estimated 33 million people have h.i.v., a deadly condition for which there is no cure. researchers suspect that one in 300 infected individuals could be elite controllers, but because elites are healthy, they are less likely to realize they've contracted h.i.v. in fact, most are living life unaware of their condition. this makes them hard for researchers to find. they are also much less likely to infect others. hans' only decided to get the hiv test after he found out his partner was sick with the virus. now aware of his unusual status, he hopes others will follow his lead. >> ( translated ): it would be better if more people like me volunteered for the investigation so that we can find some kind of cure for this

illness. >> reporter: 29-year-old peruvian juan is an elite controller with a different experience. when he first contracted the virus four years ago, juan got sick. but almost as quickly as it appeared, the infection retreated, falling to almost undetectable levels. that's when doctors asked juan to participate. >> ( translated ): i know it is a responsibility for me because doctors don't understand and maybe through me they can understand why i had this special response. >> reporter: why did juan's immune system able to deliver a punch so strong it knocked the h.i.v. virus into submission? to understand that response, doctors have turned to the technological wizards of m.i.t. here at the massachusetts institute of technology, david irvine and his crew are using new imagining technology so

precise it can mimic how a single cell can kill an h.i.v. target. >> the thing that we've seen is that the first kill that they carry out, the first execution of an infected cell that they carry out is extremely efficient and with almost 100% effectiveness if they see that first target that they encounter they kill it very quickly. so what to us that suggests is that what may be needed, what may distinguish the elite controllers is this very effective first attack and then what you would want in a vaccine is a large number of these cells to quickly come in and rapidly attack and kill that first wave of infected cells at the site of infection. >> reporter: the critical cells are called killer t-cells and rather then putting them in a lab dish together with h.i.v.-- where the t-cells have an easy target-- irvine has figured out a way to recreate what really happens in the body and measure how fast the elite t-cells move

from one target to another. >> they begin killing them, so you see them turning green, as they are getting killer you see many more targets, that's key-- how long will it take them to move on to another target >> reporter: the study has recently received a boost from the bill and melinda gates foundation to expand it's research. the foundation also funds the newshour's global health coverage. doctors hope these early steps in understanding the molecular mechanics of h.i.v. are early steps in finding a vaccine that has eluded researchers for 30 years.

>> woodruff: finally tonight, looking at a dramatic moment in american labor history through poetry. david mason is the author of "ludlow"-- a book-length poem that tells the story of a 1913 colorado strike by miners, most of them immigrants, that ended in violence. >> my name is dave mason. i am a poet who grew up in washington state but i had family roots here in southern colorado. and when i came back to colorado in the late 1990s, i decided it was very important for me to try to write about colorado. when i wrote this first novel "ludlow," one of the things i was trying to do was not only to root myself in this area but also to create a sense of the

evasiveness of identity in america. "what does it mean, nation of immigrants? what are the accents, fables, voices of roads. "a story is the language of desire. a journey home is never what it ought to be. a land of broken glass, of gunfire. "to use all this language, all this history, all this knowledge about versify cation and put it all together in what i hope is a very compelling story about a very serious moment in american history that's still with us. because we still have a nation of immigrants. we still are a nation that struggles with issues of corporate power, corporate greed, the rights of individual people.

we still are a nation of many people who are sometimes given the impression that they don't have the right to exist. and "ludlow" is a story about people who are being told they did not have the right to be here. and it's a story about people who fought for their existence here in this bleak, empty part of colorado. and they lost. the big strike that erupted here erupted in the fall of 13913. there was a... 1913. there was a great deal of ans noty between the company and the miners who worked for the company. a democratic governor decided he'd better bring out the national guard. and so while reports on what happened on april 20 differ, it does appear that an explosion happened somewhere over there. that signaled the troops to begin to open fire. the miners had dug pits underneath a number of the tents

and as it happened, one of the pits was right over here, it's now called the death pit. 13 women and children were in that pit when the national guard came in to the camp and probably set the tents on fire. the oxygen was sucked out of within of these pits right over here and these women and children were suffocated. "too few remembered now, the wars had blotted out the past except old men like christie macinto be who'd gone to work to feed his family after the whole turmoil. after the killings and the failures, after the union sold john law son out, after the long disgraceful struggle came to naught. he'd shoveled coke into the furnaces of pueblo's mill until they made him lead a crew then moved them to the office where heal lied loads of coal until requirement. three decades passing like a

dust bowl cloud. a long train wailing through the arid night, freighted with lives he'd never see again. that long train hauled the grief mine from the mesas by the immigrants into a silence like forgetfulness." >> woodruff: david mason is now at work with a composer to turn his "ludlow" book of verse into an oprah. >> lehrer: again, the major developments of the day: afghan president karzai charged foreigners-- and not his supporters-- caused the fraud in last year's afghan elections. on the "newshour", the u.s. national security advisor-- retired marine general james jones-- dismissed the accusation. he said: "i thought that was behind us." and record floods in rhode island and neighboring states receded some, leaving widespread damage. the "newshour" is always online. kwame holman, in our newsroom, previews what's there? kwame? >> holman: there's more on some of the stories you just saw. poet david mason reads a selection from "ludlow." ray blogs about the aids research in peru. and on health care, we have a

chart showing the states mounting challenges to the new law. plus, now that the international community has pledged billions to help haiti rebuild. what happens next? we ask an analyst on "the rundown." all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. >> woodruff: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. >> lehrer: and i'm jim lehrer. we'll see you on-line and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks, among others. thank you and good night. major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> what the world needs now is energy. the energy to get the economy humming again. the energy to tackle challenges like climate change. what if that energy came from an energy company? everyday, chevron invests in people, in ideas-- seeking, teaching, building.

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