captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> brown: good evening. i'm jeffrey brown. the oil spill in the gulf of mexico is far worse than authorities originally thought now leaking more than 200,000 gallons each day. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. on the "newshour" tonight, louisiana's governor declared a state of emergency and the u.s. navy was en route to help clean up the slick. we get the latest from "newshour" correspondent tom bearden on the louisiana coast. plus a b.p. spokesperson and a coast guard rear admiral. >> brown: then, we get an update

on immigration policy, as senate democrats unveil a national plan. and civil rights groups challenge arizona's new law. >> woodruff: and margaret warner reports from rome on the impact of the child sex abuse scandals on the catholic church and on pope benedict the 16th. >> i think it's a communications nightmare. enron was more manageable than what's happening now with the church. >> brown: that's all ahead on tonight's "newshour." major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:

>> this is the engine that connects abundant grain from the american heartland to haran's best selling whole wheat, while keeping 60 billion pounds of carbon out of the atmosphere every year. bnsf, the engine that connects us. the national science foundation. supporting education and research across all fields of science and engineering. and with the ongoing support of

these institutions and foundations. and... this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> brown: there was growing desperation along the u.s. gulf coast today, after word that an offshore oil spill is much larger than initial estimates. the leading edge moved within three miles of a national wildlife reserve and could begin staining the shore by tonight. tom bearden begins our coverage. >> reporter: those reddish streaks in the water: oil-- a massive slick growing five times faster than expected-- and closing in on the u.s. gulf coast. late wednesday, the coast guard reported a third leak at the well-head, a mile deep. it was discovered by b.p., which operated the offshore rig that

exploded and sank at the site, last week. >> specifically, b.p. has just briefed me on a new location of an additional breach in the riser of the deep underwater well. while the... b.p. believes and we believed and established a thousand barrel a day estimate of what is leaking from the well, n.o.a.a. experts believe the output could be as much as 5,000 barrels. >> reporter: at first, b.p. disputed that estimate, but by this morning, the oil company's explorations chief doug suttles told abc news the leak could indeed be that large. >> what we can say based on what we're picking up on the surface, it looks like it is more. so i think something between one and five thousand barrels a day is a reasonable estimate. at that rate, the well could leak more than four million gallons by the time a relief well can be drilled to ease the pressure feeding the spill. b.p. collected and burned off some of the oil yesterday, but there were no new burns today, due to weather. instead, boats scrambled to herd oil inside booms and scatter dispersant chemicals to keep the slick from reaching the

environmentally fragile coast. louisiana declared a state of emergency with the leading edge of the spill nearing plaquemines parish, at the mouth of the mississippi river. in washington, federal officials promised more skimmers, booms and other aid. homeland security secretary janet napolitano said the government is watching b.p.'s work closely. >> we'll continue to push b.p. to engage in strongest response possible, continue to oversee efforts to add to them where we deem necessary, and to ensure that again under the law that taxpayers are reimbursed for those efforts. >> reporter: later, president obama promised military help and stepped up inspections of other rigs in the gulf. >> i have ordered the secretaries of interior and homeland security as well as administrator lisa jackson of the environmental protection

agency to visit the site on friday to ensure b.p. and the entire u.s. government is doing everything possible not just to respond to this incident but also to determine its cause, and i've been in contact with all the governors of the states that may be affected by this accident. >> reporter: here in venice louisiana, about two hours south of new orleans, workers are setting out more booms but billy nungesser the president of the parish he says if more aren't placed the fishery is seriously jeopardized >> we loaded out some boom earlier this morning waiting for another vessel, the sense urgency not there to protect the wetlands that we'd hoped for, we're asking for line of defense. we'll see high winds, how far inland we know that's coming to shore, its obvious, how far shore, it's obvious, how far inland is it going to come.

>> reporter: today fisherman joe norman told us the spill could devastate the economy of the entire region. >> well, they don't know what to think it just fixed open season to go back to work now we depends on this now telling us it takes nothing but a weekend, we don't know what to think. >> reporter: late yesterday, two commercial fisheries in louisiana filed a $5 million lawsuit against the rig's owners and operators. >> brown: late today, the governor of louisiana-- bobby jindal-- said the first impact of the oil spill was expected to hit a key wildlife habitat tonight. it was based on weather predictions from the national oceanic and atmospheric administration. >> the fact the winds are in the direction they are predicting, the fact that tides are higher than normal are both negative factors as far as louisiana's coast. the heavier oil is now moving toward it. you may remember yesterday they talked about the lighter sheen coming onto louisiana's coast, the winds have actually flipped around and this is a very

layman's description because of the wind we're now getting some of the heavier oil, we're actually expecting to hit our coast not the lighter sheen they were describing before. >> brown: a short time ago i talked more with our tom bearden in venice, lousiana. so, tom, tell us a little bit more about the level of fear and anxiety you're hearing from people. >> there is a considerable amount of both fear and anxiety . the fishermen and women we talked to today were very concerned that if this oil come ace shore there's not adequate protection for all the estuaries around here. as one person described it, it's like the hands of a finger jutting out into the ocean. everyone has a fishery in it. they're worried there's not enough booms to cover the ends of those fingers. there's a lot of booming material out there but as the oil comes ashore, they are concerned it's going to overtop those booms, go around them and settle around and destroy the fish that their entire

livelihood depends upon . >> brown: it is a question of getting the booms into place? is the equipment there and it's a question of getting into it place or what? >> it's the size of the job, i think there's a lot of equipment and booms but there's also thousands of miles of shoreline and lots of lots of places where the oil can infiltrate. it's an enormous job. as one coast guard representative i spoke with an hour ago said, they'd like to have booms all the way to florida. there's no way that's going to happen in the next few days and obviously it's a job beyond their capabilities right now. he says they're trying everything they can but it's a huge job. >> brown: it sounds like you're hearing some anger from people about the level of response, the speed of response . >> no question about that. there's great concern among some people that this is at leastn the early stages a repeat of the lack of response that occurred in hurricane katrina. the president of plaquemines parish says he's very afraid there's a lack of coordination and leadership being exhibited

here, much the same way he saw occurred in hurricane katrina and that thing are not happening fast enough. >> brown: and the fishermen want to get out there and set up booms and take actions on their own? they're not being allowed to ? i. >> they believe they know these waters better than anybody else. i don't think the coast guard would dispute that, either. there's concern among the coast guard that there is an operation that shouldn't risk anybody's life or safety or health and they're concerned about liability. the fishermen on the other hand say, listen, our entire livelihood depends on this. we're expert boatmen, we know these waters better than anybody else. we're perfectly capable of putting booms out there and protecting what keeps us afloat. >> brown: we just heard late this afternoon from louisiana's governor saying they expect it might hit as early as tonight. you... what do you flare where you are? >> reporter: the original

expectation was tomorrow night. but plaquemines parish president said he thinks they ought to be in place right now. he thinks the fishery is going to be seriously damaged if they're not. we need to understand the geography of this. this is a long peninsula, it's a very big spill and it can come ashore over a massive, very long distance and thwart the efforts that have been made so far. >> brown: tom bearden in louisiana. thanks so much. take care. we'll talk to you again tomorrow. >> sure. >> brown: also from venice, lousiana, late this afternoon, we heard from b.p. company spokeswoman, ayana mcintosh-lee. we heard that the company, b.p., had asked the u.s. government, specifically the department of defense, can help us. what can you tell us about that? >> well, thanks for having me. i'd like to start just by saying that we have a massive response

effort under way with over 1,100 people, equipment, and we're bringing more to bear as we speak. we are fighting this on three fronts, both subsurface to stop the source of the leak, on the water to recover any oily water and oil in the water. as well as at the shoreline to protect sensitive areas. preside paid to by both federal and state officials. i can confirm that we have asked the federal government for assistance and we are willing to accept any and all help on the technology front to stop the well, the leak, and to fight this at the shoreline. >> brown: and what is it that you need from the department of defense right now? >> well, we have some of the greatest technology minds working on this. and they are working around the clock in areas in houston, in london as well as here in houma where we have our unified command set up and in roberts,

louisiana, and we're asking for assistance to make sure that we have every resource we need and that if there are technologies that we can bring to bear to stop that leak at the well site as well as to fight this at the shoreline and to recover the oil that we access those resources. we want to make sure that no stone goes unturned. >> brown: i just want to try to clear up something, because there's been a lot of confusion the past couple days. does b.p. now agree with the coast guard that this was much, much worse than originally thought? and why was there that discrepancy? >> well, we have said that... the original estimates by noaa were that the leak was about a thousand barrels a day. now, understanding that this is... this well is in 5,000 feet of water, you can not get an accurate idea of the release rate. so the original estimate was a thousand barrels a day.

now based on what you can see on the water, noaa scientists have basically said that they think it's more like 5,000 and we think it's somewhere in that range. but, again, one of the challenges that we're facing is that this well is at 5,000 feet of water so a lot of what we are doing to fight this is unprecedented. >> brown: and what about the situation at the rig itself in terms of stopping the leakage? was there any advances in that today? and why is that part of it going so slowly? >> again, well, we are working 24 hours a day. and, again, we have some of the greatest science minds available trying to come up with new ways to try to close... to try to close this... the well and secure the well so that there's no more oil leaking into the water. we have several things under way, one of which is that we have r.o.v.s, 24 hour monitoring that well. they are working to activate that blowout preventer, we hope

that that is successful today. and we keep trying new methods to make that happen. we are also progressing plans to drill two relief wells as well as we have under fabrication right now in louisiana a subsea collection system that we hope to be able to deploy in two to four weeks . so, again, we're fighting this and we hope that today is the successful day that we can close that well and get that blowout preventer activated . >> brown: at the white house briefing today they were talking about how it would take up to 90 days to install a relief valve to shut down the leak. is that correct? why does it take so long to have a second relief valve? >> the 90 days... it takes 60 to 90 days to drill a relief well. i mean, we're talking about a well that, again, is going to go down to 18,000 feet which is...

so within of the things that we're looking at is that we have the drill ship on location. we're looking to actually drill two relief wells. we already have one of the drill ships on location. our plans have already been approved by the minerals management service and we expect to begin drilling on friday, the second drill rig will arrive in early may. so, again, that is the long-range estimate to drill the relief wells. but, again, we are still continuing efforts and round-the-clock resources to try to activate that blowout preventer and get that well closed so there's no more oil leaking to the water. and we hope today is the day that that is successful. so we hope that it's today but on the long range in, if it takes the relief well, it could be 60 to 90 days. >> brown: ms. mcintosh-lee of b.p., thank you very much. >> you're welcome. thank you . >> brown: this was a day when the federal government ratcheted up its response to the spill. coast guard rear admiral sally

bryce o'hara was at the white house briefing today and joins us live now. welcome to you. >> good evening, thank you for having me. >> brown: you said at that briefing "we are being very aggressive and we are prepared for the worst case." what is the worst case right now? >> well, we know that there's a significant amount of oil that is escaping through these three breaks in the riser and drill pipe. we are working very hard at sea at the source where it's coming up to the surface to remove as much oil as possible. we've done a number of things with disperse zants, with skimmers and yesterday for the first time we had our test controlled burn. but even with those actions there's still some oil that has not been successfully retrieved. so now our next focus for the past several days and as preprepare for the potential landfall this weekend, the focus has been on preventing any incursion of the oil product on

to the shoreline. >> brown: now we heard b.p. asking for more help today. we heard the u.s. military coming in to help you as well. what would they be doing? what does happen next? >> well, you know, this is a team effort. the coast guard is the federal on-scene coordinator. we have the responsibility for overseeing the response to oil pollution in the coastal zone and in this case in particular. but i will emphasize that we are not doing this alone. this is a partnership between 16 federal agencies, significant numbers of state and local authorities, and the responsible party. b.p. has the lead on the actions that will take place to secure the source, to clean up all the oil that is on the surface and any that might contaminate shorelines. the role of the coast guard and our federal partners in particular is to oversee all of the actions that b.p. plans to undertake.

so we are the technical experts who ensuring that they are doing the right thing with the right resources at the right time. >> brown: well, i want to understand that a little more. who is actually in charge at this point? >> the coast guard is the federal on-scene coordinator. we have the leadership role. >> brown: but vis-a-vis the company. >> and the company as the responsible party brings all of the assets that are going to be required to clean up and address this pollution. so if they find that there are some gaps as we walk through their plans and unking what their intended actions are, if we see there are any gaps, then we look for other assets that might be brought to bear. i will tell you that there are a number of oil spill response organizations who are certified, trained, professionals who are under contract with b.p. they are in place fighting this at sea and ashore as we prepare all of the booming.

>> brown: but at that press conference-- and we saw in the tom bearden's piece earlier-- homeland security secretary janet napolitano said "we'll continue to push b.p. to engage in the strongest responsible." so, again, is b.p. taking the lead here? and are you satisfied with their response so far? >> yes. b.p. is responsible for the recovery plan for all of the oil. we oversee that and we are working very closely to ensuring that they are doing everything possible. we've changed as we move through time, circumstances, wind, weather, sea conditions all have impacts on how the oil moves, how the oil is weathered and responds to differing collection and disperseant activities and we have to continually adapt and be resilient as this oil move s. originally you may recall that it was moving more to the east

and now it's moving to the west and it's a continual adaptation so that we have the resources in place to really hit it hard and make sure that we recover as much as possible before it hits the shoreline. >> brown: and another continuing question has been here whether the government got involved in this too late. were you taken by surprise early on? and is this a game of catchup at this point? >> as this tragedy unfolded, of course, there was the explosion, the terrible fire, and we still have persons who are not accounted for. so initially it was a search-and-rescue case. and the product that was emanating from the well was actually being burned off. so there was not as much escaping into the water. but right from those very earliest hours of this incident there were assets that b.p. brought to the scene, vessels skimming equipment,

disbersants that were immediately used. as we began to understand there were leaks within the riser pipe that was damaged when the offshore drilling unit capsized and sank we then realized there was more product escaping into the water column and rising to the surface. so there's been an adaptation as we've had to adjust to that and then as we've continued to watch the movement of the oil, we've been able to bring other techniques, other assets to bear to fight this oil spill. >> brown: all right, rear admiral sally bryce o'hara. thank you very much. >> you're welcome . >> woodruff: still to come on the "newshour": an immigration reform update and questions but first, the other news of the day. here's hari sreenivasan in our newsroom. >> sreenivasan: the senate formally opened debate today on a financial regulation reform bill. republicans agreed last night to stop blocking the measure, in return for democratic concessions. those included dropping a $50

billion fund-- collected from the financial industry-- to wind down failing companies. after days of heated disagreement, senators on both sides struck a positive tone today. >> there will be times during this debate when we'll be on very different sides on issues. that will happen. and that's as it should be. nothing wrong with that. better to begin a process where you can agree on things. setting your ability to come to some common understanding. >> i am very hopeful at the end of the day that we will come out with a product that the american people can look back and say "wow, that's the way the senate is supposed to work and the people we sent there to do people's business have in fact put together a good product that's going to benefit america." >> sreenivasan: more than 100 amendments from both parties were circulating, but none were expected to be debated until tuesday. wall street had a good day. stocks rallied after several major companies posted strong earnings. the dow jones industrial average gained 122 points to close at

11,167. the nasdaq rose 40 points to close near 2,512. florida governor charlie crist announced today he's leaving the republican party to run for the u.s. senate as an independent. crist had fallen far behind former state house speaker marco rubio in the republican primary. the likely democratic nominee is congressman kendrick meek. british prime minister gordon brown appealed to voters today to overlook a major gaffe. yesterday, brown was overheard calling a woman "bigoted" and had to apologize. today, he addressed the issue at the start of the final prime ministerial debate before next week's elections. >> there's a lot to this job and as you saw yesterday i don't get all of it right. but i do know how to run the economy in good times and in bad. when the banks collapsed i took immediate action to stop the crisis becoming a calamity and the recession becoming a depression. >> sreenivasan: but conservative party leader david cameron attacked the ruling labor party attacked the ruling labour party for running up huge deficits. he said britain now faces a

range of hard choices as a result. >> the whole reason we're having this debate about how difficult it's going to be to get taxes down, cut spending is because this prime minister and this government have left our economy in such a mess with a budget deficit that this year is forecast to be bigger than that of greece. >> sreenivasan: the third man in the race-- liberal democrat leader nick clegg-- blamed both labour and the conservatives for britain's troubles. and he urged voters to break with the past. >> the way they got us into this mess is not the way out. we need to be frank about the cuts that will be needed. we'll need to break up the banking system so that irresponsible bankers can never again put your savings and your businesses at risk. >> sreenivasan: the latest polls have the conservatives still leading, but not by enough to gain an outright majority in parliament. the election is may 6. two coal miners were killed in western kentucky today, when a

mine roof collapsed. it happened near providence. the men were working four miles inside the mine at the time. governor steve beshear spoke near the site, this afternoon. >> this whole commonwealth is saddened by the deaths of these two young men. they were engaged in an essential industry in this state and in this country and it's a terrible tragedy to have lost their lives in this occupation. >> sreenivasan: federal records showed the mine had been ordered closed twice this year for safety violations. 29 miners were killed earlier this month in west virginia. hundreds of thousands of graco and simplicity baby cribs will be recalled in the u.s. the consumer product safety commission said today hardware could fail, causing babies to suffocate or strangle. and toyota announced it's resuming sales of the 2010 lexus g.x. 460, after halting them last week.

it said a software fix is now available at dealers, to stabilize the vehicle in tight turns. for the record, toyota is an underwriter of the "newshour." hundreds of mourners, from the president on down, paid final respects today to civil rights leader dorothy height. family, friends, political leaders and members of the general public attended the funeral at washington national cathedral. in his eulogy, president obama recalled height's 40 years as head of the national council of negro women. >> dorothy height was a drum major for justice. a drum major for equality. a drum major for freedom. a drum major for service. and the lesson she would want us to leave with today-- a lesson she lived out each and every day-- is that we can all be first in service. we can all be drum majors for a righteous cause. >> sreenivasan: dorothy height died last week at the age of 98. those are some of the day's main stories. i'll be back at the end of the program with a preview of what

you'll find tonighon the "newshour's" web site. but for now, back to judy. >> woodruff: now, a look at efforts to reform national immigration laws, in the wake of steps taken by the state of arizona. it's been just a week since republican governor jan brewer signed arizona's new immigration law. but today it found itself the target of major challenges in arizona and washington. a latino clergy group filed suit in federal court in phoenix. the american civil liberties union and others also planned to sue, arguing the new law encroaches on federal policy for border enforcement. the law makes it a state crime to be in the country illegally. and it orders police confirm people's immigration status, if there is "reasonable suspicion" that they're in the country illegally. but the new statute has also become the target of a referendum drive to delay enforcement until 2012, if

organizers get 76,000 signatures by late july or early august. if that happens, the law would be put on hold until state residents get a chance to vote. the impact of the law has reverberated in washington in this election year. aboard air force one last night, president obama said asking congress to pass immigration reform before november might be asking too much. >> we've gone though a very tough year and i've been working congress pretty hard, so i know there may not be an appetite immediately to dive into another controversial issue. so, i don't want us to do something just for the sake of politics that doesn't solve the problem. i want us to get together, get the best ideas on both sides, work this through, and when it's ready to go, let's move.

>> woodruff: still, senate democrats went ahead today and unveiled the framework for a comprehensive reform package. it calls for increasing the number of border patrol and immigration agents. it also mandates improvements in border security, before allowing illegal immigrants already in the u.s. to seek legalization. >> the fact that we do not have a good strong federal immigration law has now engendered a disproportional and counterproductive response in arizona which has passed a new law that is both ineffective and wrong-hearted. that is why we must act now, as soon as possible to repair our broken immigration system. >> woodruff: but the republican leader in the u.s. house-- john boehner-- said flatly today that immigration reform would not happen this year. >> there is not a chance that immigration is going to move through congress. even the president, last night, admitted that this wasn't going

to happen. i've been around here for a little while and know that in the middle of an election year after we've had bills like health care shoved down our throats and a process twisted, tortured, pressured, bribed-- you cannot do a serious piece of legislation of this size with this difficulty in this environment. >> woodruff: but whether congress acts or not, protests are already under way. and the arizona law all but guarantees that immigration will be an election issue. for more, we are joined by roy beck, executive director of numbers u.s.a., a non-profit organization that favors reducing immigration. and clarissa martinez, director of immigration and national campaigns for the national council of la raza, a non-profit hispanic advocacy group. thank you both for being with us.

i'm going to be begin with you, clarissa martinez, just to get both of you to tell where you say you're coming from on the arizona law. what is your take on what the arizona legislature did and the governor signed? >> well strongly believe that it is the abdication of the federal government of its responsibility over immigration laws that has left state and local governments to grapple with the issue. and what we are seeing is a patchwork of laws emerging that are only adding greater chaos to our already broken system. that's what's happening in arizona. except that i think in arizona we've gone beyond the pale where now we're in a situation where we can practically be codifying the racial profiling of the latino population in that state, which is 30% of the population. that is just simply not the way to fix or address immigration. >> woodruff: roy beck, is this as ms. martinez said, beyond the pale? >> well, not at all. what we have is a country that

has almost 10% unemployment, we have 25 million people who want a full-time job, can't find one and we have seven million illegal aliens who are holding construction, manufacturing, transportation service jobs. so it's seven million jobs that could be made available for unemployed americans if we move the illegal aliens out of the jobs. that's what the arizona law does it piles on to other laws that they've passed to move these illegal workers out of the state. >> woodruff: so with the passage of the arizona law, do you think it makes it more urgent or not to get national immigration reform done? >> i don't think it makes it more urgent but i do think arizona has shown the way. i agree with clarissa that what we need is not a patchwork. it would be good if every state would pass the same laws that arizona did. then we would have a kwraoup form system. if the federal government would do the same thing as arizona's done, then we could put a seven million people back to work . >> woodruff: ms. martinez, that's obviously not what you want to see. >> well, it's an interesting

proposition to say every state should condone the racial profiling of their latino population. in arizona, again, the majority of latinos are actually u.s. citizens and legal permanent residents and now they're going to be compelled... they're going to be held suspect in their own communities. i agree we need to fix the broken immigration system. but i also think that voters, frankly, are having their legitimate frustrations manipulated by folks who are giving them false illusions. and this is not the first time that arizona's gone down this road. >> woodruff: ms. martinez, let's turn to what the senate democrats introduced here in washington late this afternoon into the evening, and that is what they say is a tough new national immigration law that would first stress beefing up the borders . we may have lost the audio with ms. martinez. >> no, i'm hear, sorry. i thought you were going to switch to the senate press conference. >> woodruff: no, i'm sorry.

i was asking you to respond. because what they've been saying is they think there does need to be national immigration reform and it needs to start with securing and toughening the borders. >> well, i think that we've been hearing a lot, particularly over the last few months, that we need to strengthen the border. the reality is that if you are interested in restoring the rule of law, the way to do it is through comprehensive immigration reform. you put smart measures in place that protect the border and protect the workplace, but at the same time we have to fix our legal immigration system. because that's what's feeding illegality. doing only one thing is what we have been doing, and it just simply doesn't work. that's what's put us where we are right now and leads to things like arizona, which, although the frustrations are legitimate, it just simply doesn't solve the problem. >> woodruff: mr. beck, what about the approach that the democrats today are putting forward in washington? saying we need national reform and they're acknowledging that it needs to start with a tougher border security. >> well, the problem is that

they're doing the opposite of what arizona... arizona wants to move unemployed americans into the jobs illegal aliens have. what was proposed today by the democrats was to make sure that the illegal aliens have those jobs permanently because it has a legalization as a part of it. so it's not about... it's not about opening jobs up. i mean... and jobs are the number-one issue right now. now, there are some things about toughening up the border. and one thing that's interesting is they require people to carry an i.d. card, which is one of the criticisms of the arizona law that requires the illegal immigrants to carry i.d. cards which, by the way, is a federal law already. >> woodruff: ms. martinez, it is the case that the democrats' proposal does include this i.d. requirement. >> well, look, in the past when we had a legalization program, the reality is that when you are going through that process, you have an i.d. card. but what arizona has done is not really about moving people who are unemployed into jobs. what it is is that somebody can

stop because they are suspected of being in the country illegally. what does that mean? the governor can't define that. the bill didn't define that. and part of the issue here is that people who are deemed to be foreign, people who are held as suspect, are going to be stopped so i agree we need to fix this problem. we also need to focus on resources and what arizona's doing is adding more hay to the haystack. >> woodruff: i want to let you respond very briefly because i do want to get back to the national picture very quickly here. >> it's just that the critics are saying this is going to create all this profile bug the law is written very carefully to try to prevent that. now, the governor and the legislature say they don't want it. so we will find out. i do believe one effect of all these protests is there's just almost no chance that the police in arizona are going to racially profile. >> woodruff: back here to what the democrats are doing and the republicans are talking about in washington. we heard several of the senators today, democratic senators, say we want the republicans to join

us, we want this to be bipartisan. what do you think the chances are that republicans are going to come on board and work with the democrats? >> i believe mr. boehner is correct. for one thing, who wants to run for reelection by saying "we're going to give these jobs permanently to these illegal workers"? you're going to run for reelection saying how you're going to put americans back to work. so i don't see any reason why the republicans want to jump in and i don't see any reason why any democrat in a competitive race would come out in support of this. >> woodruff: that's not what the democrats say they're doing. that i say that what they're... >> it's all about enforcement? >> couric: >> woodruff: that's right. >> they say you don't get on a pass to citizenship until after enforcement, they say. but their proposal gives people legal residence and right to a job immediately and then later on they get on a path to a green card. but the fact is, legalization happens immediately. and... and when they say "after enforcement is in place" what they mean is after they've spent a certain amount of money. they don't have any criteria for

actually stopping illegal immigration. >> woodruff: what about that point, ms. martinez? and what do you think the prospects are that anything is going to happen this year at the national level? >> well, i they the senators have done today with this proposal is to create a solid platform to invite republicans to the table. we have heard many republicans saying that the federal government needs to act and this is an invitation to address the problem together. and, frankly, i challenge mr. boehner when he says they the government can't do this, he is part of the government. and while americans across the country are battling unemployment-- as mr. beck says-- and foreclosure and multiple problems at the same time, the least we can expect of our elected leaders is frankly to have the appetite to address the problems that the nation is facing. and mr. beck can go on and on talking about the jobs issue. i haven't heard what the real electrocution is going to be... solution is going to be to move us forward. right now we have a broken system where an unscrupulous employer is able to pit an

american worker against a vulnerable undocumented worker. what reform will do is make sure we level that playing field. >> woodruff: we're going to have to wrap it up. i want to get a quick forecast from you. ms. martinez, you do think there's a chance for legislation this year at the national level? >> i think the moral imperative, policy urgency and politically smart moves are behind immigration reform. >> woodruff: mr. beck? >> there won't be. i wish there were because the answer really is to have some kind of a timeout on legal immigration as well as passing the save act by the democratic congressman schuler and senator pryor. >> woodruff: roy beck, cla reusz is martinez, we thank you both. >> thank you very much. >> brown: now, margaret warner wraps up a week of reporting from rome as the european abuse scandal engulfs the vatican. >> warner: they call rome "the eternal city"-- awash in grand monuments and the artistic remains of civilizations that

have spanned the millennia. at its heart, one of the most enduring-- the seat of the self- proclaimed eternal church of roman catholicism, the vatican. but now, hit with a new wave of allegations of priestly sexual abuse of the young, the ancient church and its pope find themselves caught in a very modern crisis. that didn't keep thousands from filling st. peters square this past sunday to see pope benedict the sixteenth's weekly blessing from his window high above the piazza. he called on priests to model themselves on jesus the good shepherd, who safeguards his flock and defends it from evil. sister lucien rodrigues of brazil thinks pope benedict is doing just that. >> ( translated ): he's confronting the situation with a lot of humility, and this is how the church should always be. >> warner: but the more common view came from catholic-raised liz mcknight of london. >> i think the church as a whole

has been very, very defensive about the whole thing. and i think they are now beginning to open up and i think that's what they should do. >> this is the worst crisis in the last 200 years; asking the the vatican and the bishops generally have been a wall of silence about these misdeeds. >> warner: vatican analyst and papal biographer marco politi says the scrutiny from secular press and public is a profound culture shock for the holy see. >> for centuries, the vatican has been accustomed to be at power a state power, which had to not answer to anybody. this time, it happens that

priests or bishops are called into state courts and they have to respond. >> warner: that's where don ruggero conti found himself tuesday-- at this rome courthouse-- standing trial on charges of molesting seven boys while he was a parish priest. conti said the charges were a smear and not just of him. >> ( translated ): i am a priest, the infamies of which i am accused, accumulate other hatred, not only on myself, but it bounces off immediately like a stone on the water to hit the church and hurt the holy father. >> warner: until his police arrest in 2008, the well- connected conti served at this neighborhood church and school just north of rome. victims lawyers say he remained in his job long after his local bishop and the vatican prosector prosecutor were apprised of accusations against him. >> priest is suppose to take care of the soul, not kill your soul. >> warner: attorney roberto

mirabile runs la caramella buona, an italian anti- pedophilia group representing two of the young men. he says contis case is just the tip of the iceberg in italy. >> i think a lot of things will come out, and we will see much more in the future. >> warner: that's what unfolded elsewhere in europe. eight years after the u.s. catholic church abuse scandal, last fall, news of a grotesque 15,000 cases in ireland triggered an avalanche of fresh allegations from country after country on the continent. europe's shame has hit this city, and its many vatican- connected institutions, hard. >> it's been a very difficult and painful time. >> warner: monsignor roderick strange runs pontifical beda college, which trains older men for the priesthood. >> having to talk about this

issue, even my circumstances, you can feel as if it were sucked into a swamp. we are all tarnished by this. >> warner: on the surface, life at beda appears to follow the usual pattern. but new admittees are much more rigorously screened, and trained strange offers insight into the attitudes that used to prevail among bishops accused of protecting priests over children. >> perhaps he was told, "yes, this man has done wrong, but we all commit sins," and he says he's really sorry and so it was safe to send him back to work. >> warner: but he is critical of the vatican's handling of the issue today: >> it would have been better if the vatican had, so to speak, got ahead of the game because the whole issue is so emotional. the important thing is to say you're sorry and to on saying you're sorry. >> warner: instead, it's been a mixed message from the holy see.

at easter sunday mass, the dean of the college of cardinals defiantly defended the pope against what he dismissed as petty gossip. yet just two weeks later in malta, the pontiff met with abuse victims off camera and reported with tears in his eyes assured them of church action. it was here just last week that pope benedict spoke publicly of his meeting and promise to abuse victims in malta. but at this wednesday's audience-- after a week that saw three prominent bishops resign in the scandal-- the pope chose instead to highlight two 19th century priests who had sought to care for the suffering of young people, not cause it. his choice reflected that vatican's somewhat painful quest for how to best deal with this crisis. >> i think it's a communications nightmare. enron was more manageable than what's happening now with the church. >> warner: pia de solenni , an american theologian and cultural analyst, was in rome to speak at a conference of catholic

communications officers. >> i think the church has focused more on the crisis than the church has become defensive and is in fact thwarting any communications efforts that it has. >> warner: the pope's defenders in this group, including father john wauck of the hosting pontifical university of the holy cross, insist the pontiff has dealt forcefully with clergy abuse, especially in his march letter to the irish faithful >> he's handled that very seriously. call all the irish bishops to rome. he wrote a letter and he's called for a visitation and he's accepted resignations. >> warner: but de solenni said its not enough to do that once in a letter. >> the pope is not going to do a press conference. but i think we need to, again, continue to hear more about what he's done and what he's doing. >> i think there are too many people who think they have to teach to the pope what he has to do. >> warner: father federico lombardi, the papal spokesmanat

spokesman the eye of the vatican's communications storm, argues the popes actions should speak more loudly than words. >> if the pope say or do something it is not to be 100 times; it has model value, or example value. >> warner: but, lombardi admits, it's an uphill battle to restore confidence in the church's believability now. >> for the church is very hard. this was a wound for the credibility. this was clear. >> warner: even if the vatican learns to market its message better, this papacy has another achilles heel: how benedict himself dealt with sex abuse cases, as archbishop of munich, and for his 23 years, as then- cardinal ratzinger, heading enforcement office, the congregation for the doctrine of the faith. the past months have brought a

cascade of news stories based on charges that ratzinger's office was complicit in maintaining abusers in the priesthood. benedicts defenders insist he was aggressive in the c.d.f. job. for example, instigating pope john paul's 2001 decree that bishops must inform the c.d.f. of all sexual abuse cases, not just the most egregious ones. at the same time, supporters like father wauck say the vatican can't be held responsible for the actions of legions of bishops running a global church on the local level. >> the idea that all roads lead to rome is somewhat misleading in this situation largely because the pope is a bishop among bishops. and the authority of a local bishop is not the same as sort of a branch manager. a local bishop has huge

authority both in the judicial sense and in an administrative sense. >> warner: yet documents released by victims lawyers include letters from bishops in the '80s and '90s seeking the c.d.f.s approval to defrock priests, and getting stonewalled or ignored. benedict hasn't said a word explaining his actions, and his spokesman shrugs off the notion he needs to. >> i don't think that he has to justify himself because he has done very well what he had to do. >> warner: "the holy see is making a big mistake," says vatican analyst politi, "it should open up all the case files from the ratzinger era." >> if the vatican doesn't open its archives there could be revelations that could damage

directly cardinal ratzinger over what happened in the '80s. >> warner: though the former cardinal-turned pope is showing his 83 years. aides insist he's holding up remarkably well under the strain of this crisis. but back across town, college rector strange finds that hard to believe. >> to find that he has been given a life sentence-- a death sentence really-- to be pope for the rest of his life, and then have to deal with these complex demanding personal pastoral issues, that's an enormous burden to lay on somebody. having given such service to the church and to find himself carrying this cross, it's a real crucifixion at 83 years of age. >> warner: the heaviest weight of that cross may be the impact of the crisis on the church's future-- the trust of young

people, especially in europe and countries like the popes native germany. it's well documented that future was already shaky in europe. outside santa maria in trastevere church on saturday, musician daniel groff-- a former altar boy-- said he was disillusioned long ago. >> i'm not very into religion or pro-religion. it's all about the power so its it's very political also, so of course it could happen things like that, i'm not surprised that something of that happens. what i mean is they talk in a way but they act differently as we can see. >> warner: the picture didn't seem quite as bleak later that night at a packed service inside the 1,700-year-old church.

but after the mass, interpreter luigi lucioli said the holy see to him is just a place to take tourists. >> we live our christianity as christians in our small community. the vatican is always seen as an attraction, because it's always been really distant to what's people's real life. >> warner: closing that distance with the catholic faithful is crucial for the vatican, and ensures the papal household will be burning the midnight oil for some time to come. >> woodruff: again, the major developments of the day: the gulf coast braced for an oil spill that could be five times larger than initially believed. the oil was nearing shore in louisiana. florida governor charlie crist announced he's leaving the republican party to run for the senate as an independent. the "newshour" is always online.

hari sreenivasan, in our newsroom, previews what's there. hari? >> sreenivasan: there's more on florida governor crist's party switch. we asked two experts for views on what it means for politics in the sunshine state. find an update on health care-- npr's julie rovner explains why the insurance industry decided to stop discriminating against patients with pre-existing conditions. on "art beat," jeff talks to the young winner of the "poetry out loud" competition. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. judy? >> brown: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm jeffrey brown. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. we'll see you on-line and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks, among others. thank you and good night. major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> what the world needs now is energy. the energy to get the economy humming again. the energy to tackle challenges like climate change. what if that energy came from an

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