tavis: good evening from los angeles. a conversation about the intensifying debate over immigration with mexico gov. bill richardson. he is the only governor of hispanic descent. his thoughts on the new immigration stance and its impact on the midterm elections. also, johnathan rhys meyers is here. the golden globe winner is back for the final season of the drama "the tudors". gov. bill richardson and actor johnathan rhys meyers coming up right now. >> there are so many things that walmart is looking forward to doing, like helping people live better. but mostly we're looking forward to helping build relationships, because with your help, the best is yet to come. >> nationwide insurance proudly supports tavis smiley. tavis and nationwide insurance,

working to improve financial literacy and the economic empowerment that comes with it. >> ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: bill richardson is serving his second term as governor of new mexico, following his tenure as u.s. ambassador to the un, joining us tonight from washington. good to have you back on this program, sir. >> good to be here. tavis: i have been seeing your comments everywhere. you are opposed to the law signed by your colleague governor brewer in arizona.

the question for me is whether or not you support the boycott. is the boycott and effective way of protesting? >> i do not support the boycott necessarily. my worry is that boycotts, a tourism boycott conventions, they heard a lot of -- hurt a lot of little people. there're a lot of errors and into the -- arizona to do not agree. i would not i would participate in a demonstration. the best way to deal with this problem is legislative political action. the thousands of protesters and that is a lot more than the tea party, 100,000 over the country.

arizona deserves enormous criticism, particularly their legislature for this unconstitutional human rights violating law. and i think the boycotts, i do not think they will do much and they heard a lot of innocent people. tavis: why do you say the law is a violation of human rights? in what way? >> specifically, it condones basically racial profiling. first of all, immigration is a federal responsibility, not a state responsibility. a police officer can go up to somebody that the person deems suspicious and arrest and ask for papers and passports. that is essentially racially profiling. who is that officer going to look for? it is going to be somebody that is "looking hispanic, looks like an immigrant." maybe someone who does not speak perfect english. that is a human rights violation. that is something that is not

condoned in state law or federal constitutional law. immigration is a federal responsibility. there is another issue. the federal government has not done its job. congress has not dealt with the comprehensive immigration bill. that is what is needed. tavis: if the federal government by your own admission as the governor of the state has not done its job, then why fault jan brewer for doing at the state level what the government has not done at the federal level? >> first of all, the federal government, the congress has deployed a lot of resources at the border. national guard, more border patrol, more technology. they need to do more. it is not fair to say they are doing nothing. there is a huge problem on the u.s.-mexico border because of drug cartels and drug violence. it is not just illegal workers crossing. it is drugs and cartels in mexico, two of them trying to

annihilate each other. that spills into the border and harms u.s. citizens. it is taking an additional dimension. you did not fix the problem by taking the law into your own hands and passing something that is unconstitutional and impractical. those police officers in arizona, they are honorable people and many are bilingual. instead of them going after criminals, they're going to be looking around the corner and see if someone looks suspicious and go talk to them and say, can i see your papers? you look suspicious. that is not their job. that is a violation of some of these human rights. it could be the 30% hispanics in arizona that already exist, who have been there for generations. tavis: is it possible that we could start out wrong and end up right? when i mean to suggest is, it might be the wrong thing to do in arizona, given the law that the governor has signed. we start out wrong but it forces a debate about this issue, and

furthermore, forces the federal government to actually do something, is it possible we might end up thinking jan brewer one day? >> she is a good woman and she was in a tight political box. i do not think you think her. what you d-- thank her. i hope the obama administration challenges this. the state should not interfere in regulating immigration. that should be point one. point two is this will hopefully cause with these demonstrations, already 10 states are taking similar measures that the congress -- president obama has pushed the this and has pushed it in the right direction. the congress will say we will take a little political heat. we have eight months ago. we will take up immigration and energy bill, a jobs bill, that is what they're supposed to do.

and act. right now the tension is very strong nationally. there is a lot of hispanics very uncomfortable, immigrants right now that could be unfairly targeted. we have fixed the problem with a federal law. tighten the border, put more border patrol, more national guard. more technology. stop and deter the flow. crack down on those that hire illegal workers illegally. sanctions. find some kind of social security card that is not interested that identifies everybody and sets a level playing field. lastly, those that are here, the 11 million. you cannot deport them. we can do is make them accountable. make them learn english, make them pay back taxes, it meant they broke the law and pay a fine. they can pass a background check. get them to the back of the line for those who are trying to get here legally.

this is not just a law that affects hispanic. it affects haitians, central americans, europeans. we need to have more family reunification with irish, with english, with many who want to come here but our immigration -- our immigration system is broken. it is to bureaucratic. a complete overhaul is what is needed. >tavis: you mentioned this is a measure that congress ought to take of immediately. a few questions in that regard. president obama said he did not believe that congress had the appetite to handle this kind of debate in this year. so your thoughts about that are? >> he was probably reflecting reality. you ask the congressman, what is the one issue you do not want to vote on, it is immigration. there is no votes either way and probably more negative votes if

you espouse comprehensive immigration act. i am talking about the totality. for the hispanic voter and the hispanics in this country that are growing and getting more powerful, this is a very important vote. tavis: you think is going to be taken of this year? >> i do believe so. it does not look like it right now. an outline of the bill just came out a couple days ago. you have to wait and see. these things build up steam. when there are more demonstrations and states take the line into their hands and public pressure, you will see the congress i believe acting. there is some political repercussions. there is an election in november. if the republican party continues to be the anti- immigrant party like it is in arizona where the arizona elected officials taking a high road for this bill, and you take other republicans taking the same position, they will lose.

i give president bush credit who two years tried to pass a comprehensive immigration bill and his own party kind of gang that won him. tavis: you are laying out the agenda and you see it as a democratic governor. i would expect no different and no less. the flip side is not just republicans who might be obstructionist or said on their hands and not want to do anything. there are democrats who have to have the will. when i hear representative luis gutierrez encourage people to just stay home, democrats could end up being punished as well, yes? >> i am not just laying the blame on republicans. you have to have a bipartisan bill. it has to have more democrats than republicans as usual. it is mainly the political will to put on the agenda.

that is step one. this congress sometimes says, we have already done enough. we have done health care. they have not done a climate change bill, they have not done an energy bill. they need to do a substantial jobs bill to bring jobs back into america. i believe now this immigration bill which the president in the campaign of last year said we're going to take it up, he deserves credit for that. democratic leadership, harry reid, senator, said the right thing. he wants to bring it up soon. tavis: what does it have to be bipartisan? why can democrats have the will to push it through? >> i think you need some republicans on this one. the numbers for democrats as you mentioned may not be enough as they wear for health care. this is a very volatile bill. i do not see why concurrently

both houses cannot start taking up an energy climate change bill and immigration. it is as if they can only do one big job year. it is an election year. they can take some of these boats that are needed. tavis: i know that you did not ask that rhetorically. if you can get one bill out to a year, we debated health care for two years. i take your point. the evidence may be yes. one is all you are going to get. you mentioned the governor. she is a colleague of yours. you know her well. you said she is a nice person. let me move beyond the realm of whether these are nice people or not to whether or not these people are acting with courage, with conviction, and commitment in the best interest of the country. how then to you say to women like the governor is a nice person when she signed a bill into law you think is inhumane?

how do you say that john mccain is a nice person when they have food on this issue for getting reelected? they're not just nice people. there is more to this, yes? andno? >> why are asking me an impossible question. -- an impossible question? they are doing this because they are in tight elections. politically untenable positions. they probably favored vetoing this bill like governor brewer, i urge you to do it. tavis: so what? she would have done the right thing according to you. >> i am just making an observation. everybody worries about getting reelected first. that is a commonality that everyone has. you have to do the right thing

-- the right thing. there is a possibility of redemption. they could see this is hurting the state enormously. maybe some legal challenge will take it off the books and that will force the pressure that is needed for a comprehensive immigration bill. i am not perfect. i am just stating a political reality. it was tough for them to be no this bill. they should have, but they did not. tavis: i will let you off the hook with no more tough questions. i am not sure i like that last answer. i will let you go. >> you are a good man. tavis: good to have you on the program. next, actor johnathan rhys meyers. stay with us. johnathan rhys meyers is a

golden globe winner. "the tudors" airs on showtime. >> thousands of former rebels offer their supplication. >> i will convey these tremendous advance to his majesty. >> you will tell him based on what you see, it would be foolish to contemplate an invasion of this island. in the mistaken belief that it is riven with discord and full of discontented men. >> majesty, i am very sure that the master has no such plans. on the contrary. he regards england as his natural ally. >> good. tavis: did you have any doubt when you did this about whether or not a period piece could work

on the premium cable channel as serious? >> yes. when you are dealing with something like "the tudors" which is eighan extraordinary te in trying to sell it on cable in the u.s. at that time was going to be a long shot. we knew we had an incredible story. we knew we had an incredible production team behind us. everyone at showtime was extraordinary. it allowed us to be free and make our own interpretation. we were never going to take history and try to duplicate it. for a modern audience. we had to interpret it in a way that was faster and pacier. we had to cut the boring parts of history. we have to speed everything up. tavis: you have to cut the boring parts but you are immensely aided and abetted by

the fact that king henry viii was quite the character. >> he was quite a man. he had a lot to teach people. he had a lot to teach his own people and teach history right now. how things are run and political mistakes and certainly, lots of marital mistakes. he was just a really interesting character to play. he is very fast and very exuberant, and in his quieter time, you get -- he is more powerful when he is quiet than when he is allowed. it is his loudness, he knew that being the head of state was about being on stage the whole time, it is about bamboozling your audience into believing what ever you could provide for them. so whenever he had a big marriage or a birth or baptism or something, he made it to apolitical events. therefore, it took the normal

people's view about what he was doing as a political leader and focused on the pantomime of henry. >tavis: i like the phrase. the lesson of six wives is what? >> the lesson of six wives is being yourself. [unintelligible] he was extraordinary. at that time, children were very important. now they are very important for different reasons. we love them very much and we like to take care of them. in that time, it was unlikely the child will live to 12. if they lived to 12 they had a good chance of living on and being adults. there was a lot of debt that birth, both with the mother and child. d eath a -- death at birth, both with the mother and child.

he was looking for sons. girls you could use in a very -- i suppose there were ponds is the only way to say it. -- pawns is the only way to say it. if i could marry my daughter to spain, the become blood and family. if i marry them to france, it is the same thing. it went -- when thinking about henry doing that, he cannot give mary to spain because he has to get involved in the war on the turks. when you buy into a family, you buy into the problems. sons were used for succession. what he wanted with sons, that is why he married six times. he was not promiscuous. we made him more promiscuous because that is how you sell tv. sexuality sells and love affairs

sells. he was a much more prudish king. tavis: talking about marrying into political families for political gain in power and access. that happens in hollywood every day. not just in the age of the tudors. it is called the hook up. >> yea, you hooked -- yeah, you become an executive. you hook up in henry's time and you own a country. you can determine at that point, henry determined how his people prayed. whatever housing or sanitation you can give to people, when you are dictating their spiritual

flow, it is completely different and this is what made henry more extraordinary than any other. he changed how people practice their beliefs, their religious beliefs. this is what made him extraordinary. >> why did peopletavis: why do e respond to king henry viii? >> he is 6 feet 3 inches. this dominating presence, this physical presence, he was a big, hefty guy. this could make people feel intimidated. he intimidated a lot of people and he used this power to intimidate people. he would never take their eyes -- his eyes from them. he would pour into them. he would make sure he was physically and mentally superior. he would be the type of guy who would send his assistant out to check out everything that the guy he is meeting for business meeting was doing.

he would know what their hobbies were, what their wives and children dead. anything he could use to his advantage to get them to do what he wanted them to do at the time. tavis: two was executed. >> one for no good reason other than he fell out of love with her. in milan was innocent -- anne bolyn was innocent. she was either going to be executed or fall from her horse. one of the two. the second execution was deserved. as henry thought. he did a very silly thing. he was going through a midlife crisis and catherine howard is the ferrari. you are almost retiring and dubai of hurry and you wonder why i am driving this car. -- you buy a ferrari and you

wonder why i am driving this car. you realize how ridiculous you look. this is catherine howard. he put her out there. she was very beautiful in -- and it was partially lost. he put her out as somebody who would draw out to the bad elements in his court. if you want to find out who your friends are, you put something out there in the open that you know they will want. something that is covetable. this is how he picked out who was loyal and who was not. she was disloyal. he had to executors, even if he did not want to because she was a silly child. he had to from a masculine point of view. tavis: now that you are in your fourth and final season, what have you learned about the viewing audience, courtesy of

this vehicle? >> i think the viewing audience is smarter than they believe they are. they have an extraordinary interest in history. they have an interest in this part of history because it seems like there was something really kind of debonair about this time. the costumes, our custom designer is extra merit. the costumes were absolutely period and of the time but they were so enigmatic. you could wear them with the same kind of cut. tavis: are you taking some of the costumes with you? >> i am not allowed. pulled back. ebay have lost. tavis: johnathan rhys meyers is his name and he plays king henry

viii in "the tudors". that is the guy who played elvis. pleasure to have you. that is the show tonight. catch us weekends on pbs.org. goodnight and thanks for watching. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org tavis: join me next time to look at what the new health care means for you. and actress dana delany. we will see you then. >> there are so many things that walmart is looking forward to doing, like helping people live better. but mostly we're looking

forward to helping build stronger communities and relationships, because with your help, the best is yet to come. >> nationwide insurance proudly supports tavis smiley. tavis and nationwide insurance, working to improve financial literacy and the economic empowerment that comes with it. >> ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- captioning institute --www.ncicap.org--