problem. >> governor, night cut you off but governor ehrlich stepped out and said defined benefit plans for government workers in maryland should come to an end. do you support the idea for balancing this? >> no, i don't. i think what we have to do is wait for the commission to put a menu of options and it will be a combination of things. i'm sure. we have had a better performance this year on our investments, a better rate of return, 14% and trying to predict what that variable will be in the future is part of the difficult work, but we know that we have to address it. we have to bring people together to address it. it was something the former governor never took at shot at addressing during the four years he was in when that gap continued to grow every year. the first order of business when i was elected was attacking the structural deficit that the former governor left to us at $1.7 billion. and then the recession hit us and we have been protecting our priorities but mindful of the

fact we need to bring people together to address the long- term sustainability of our pension options and do it in a way with everyone at the table. nor am i in favor of privatizing social security. i don't think that ideology will solve this complex problem. we need to bring people together with dignity and respect. look at the menu of options and figure out a way to move forward. >> i don't know how many cliches can be place in the one sentence but you set the record. leaders lead, politicians give you that. that's the difference in this election. what you just heard. >> matt has a question. >> talk some football. here in the district the movement is slowly growing and will only increase in the next four years to bring the redskins back in the city where where they currently play in maryland. as governor, would either of you, if anything, offer the redskins to stay in prince georges county and ileal start with governor every lick. >> the owner of the redskins is

a redskins fan and contributor. we will have those discussions. havi two franchises in maryland is fantastic. there's issues with regard to the stadium as we know traffic is a mess. it's an all-day affair. and redskins fans are the best in the country. we know that. so that would have to be a function of discussions with mr. snyder and with the relative players in prince georges county and the players in annapolis, as well. obviously we love having two franchises located in maryland, it helps redskin and rfk was a fantastic environment for professional football. i have been to a number of games there but there is no clear answer to this. we will see where the franchise wants to go, where the owner wants to go and what the taxpayers have to say about it as well. >> i don't know the answer to that question but we'd like to keep the redskins playing in prince georges county. >> the first time we asked that question. >> now we will switch gears

once again. governor o'malley, is there anything, what would you say is the most important thing in your background that prepared you for being governor? was it being a song writer and vocalist in a celtic band that toured the state, being a father of four or baltimore mayor or something else. something in your background that really helped in the governor's mansion? >> probably my upbringing by two of the most loving an caring people that god ever put on this planet, my parents tom and barbara o'malley. that's probably the most important thing. i guess one of the perspectives i have been able to bring to this job in the most difficult of times is i grew up in the washington area and then i moved to baltimore in law school. and met the love of my life and therefore stay. i have a perspective of both metropolitan areas. i understand the challenges faced by moms and dads in montgomery and prince georges county and i also have a very -- i have been lessed to have

serve as mayor the isty of baltimore and see the potential there. i suppose the understanding of both regions has served me well but most important are the values i was raised with, a belief in hard work, in tough choices and a belief we are all in this together. >> reporter: governor ehrlich, same question for you. what is it you did before you were governor that really helped while you were governor, being the captain of the football team at princeton? talk show host, member of congress [ laughter ] >> cohost. >> something else? >> what is in your background that helped while you are in the governor's montgomery mansion. >> the predicate i share with governor o'malley is loving parents and being raised in -- princeton. but to answer your question, being elected to the legislature at a young age and learning the craft and understanding how annapolis work and the committee system, congress less, though. clearly the experience,ing ayear necessary maryland

general assembly when there were no republicans around and i was adopted by senior democratic leaders down there, i was included in a back room group, a small group that decide which issues go to the house floor. i was included on conference committees. i was befriended and adopted by senior democratic leaders that great conservative moderate pro beeswings of the democratic party that used to dominate annapolis before the last 10 to 15 years. that experience b@was priceless it prepared me to go to congress. it prepared me to be governor and i'll never forget it. >> thank you. so now we will have a variety of questions and matt is going to start with one on immigration. >> to governor o'malley a hot button issue. would you support cutting state funding to any group in maryland that receives state funding if it is proven they aid or harbor illegal aliens? >> the -- if it is proven they aid or harbor illegal aliens? i think what is the proble

with our nation today is the fear of politics and the politics that shift blame for a lack of comprehensive immigration faform. no. we will not support groups that conspire to break the law. but let's be honest here. we are talking about a nation that has not been able to come to a consensus on immigration reform. people who are here should have a pathway for becoming citizens for obeying all the laws and paying their taxes. new americans, and every wave of new americans has made our nation a better place. sadly as a political football, there's this nativism rising and a desire to blame new americans for the problems in our economy. new americans didn't run wall street in the ground. new americans didn't destroy our savings or manipulate intelligence information to get us in to conflicts that we

might not have otherwise gotten in to and i think we need to look at each other and give each other dignity and respect as we work through comprehensive immigration and reform. only the federal government can protect our borders and they need to do a better job but congress needs to come together for reform. >> your correct answer is yes. you have celebrated casa demaryland. if casa de maryland was interested in philadelphiaing the original mandate which is to help assimilation of new americans, if somebody breaks in to my house is that a new member of my family that night. it is not new americans. if you are illegal and you know casa de maryland has used tax money to produce booklets to

assist illegal immigrants from the reach of the law. you know that. and you were there celebrating the opening of that building. it is wrong. -- with all due respect it is my time here. matt, the answer is we really do have to draw the line in this country. i agree with the governor in one small respect. it has been a bipartisan failure at the level level. republican administration, democratic administrations have failed in this regard but to pretend new americans, use that term when you are referring to illegal immigrants is wrong. with regard to legal immigration we should welcome new imgrants we are about assimilation. that's what the sculpture is about. we talk about nullity culturallism we have a multiethnic society but a single culture premises on the other hand english, capital. a, equal opportunity, living the american dream, i'm living it. you are living it but we did it the right way our families.

we have to do it the right way. governor o'malley i vetoed in state tuition help supports it. he signed the bill in to law that gave illegals six years to comport with federal law. >> thank you, governor. >> we have two tiered license system in the state and casa de maryland is a gross example of what this mind set leads us to. >> i disagree. >> it is not nativism. it is following the law. sovereignty must mean something. that is what this election is about. >> improving health outcomes making sure people can deliver their children with prenatal care. i don't think that clothing people and making sure that we reach out with basic dignity is services is un-american and i think that is a gross and unfair mischaracterization. >> the law, matt. >> can you hold the applause in the law require those services to be provided.

nobody has a problem with that. >> derek. >> i was going to ask something else but i'm going to get to this because this conversation reminded me of what you threw back and forth at the last debate and then we heard about coded words and racism. you said governor ehrlich that o'malley called you a racist dc -- came close to playing the race card. >> what do you mean by that? when you talk about cities and urban and these things a lot of people take it to mean black people. >> we have to be unction afraid. you know that. we have to be unafraid to care about baltimore city schools. we care in different ways i guess we have different remedies but you have to be unafraid today. when i talk about race, when race is brought up, the audience is silent. everybody gets real nervous. we have a african-american president. enough of this. we need to talk and have debates. we disagree about a lot of things. that's what is great about this campaign. we disagree on just about everything.

that's what politics is about. that's good but i'm not going to put up with being treated, as i have begun to be treated in the last debate with respect to race. there's 11 schools we talked about in baltimore city that are dysfunctional. the kids are being deprived 0 their constitutional right, they are mostly african- american. it's not right. it is not a discretionary function of government it is a matter of the constitution. we need to care about the kids. we all care but it was very difficult, i guess for the o'malley administration. members of this black caucus, teachers association, what, to pretend otherwise because it was an election year and ebb convenient and i surgeon lip wasn't going to put up with -- certainly wasn't going to put up with that card who albowed thousandses of african- americans in baltimore city, one in six citizens of the city of baltimore arrested and most by the way thrown out,

arrested, taken off the street and thrown out. talk about deprivation of constitutional rights. i wasn't going to put up with it. i will never put up with it in my life. >> governor o'malley, were you calling him a racist. >> we were starting finally to make progress on city schools. we have -- as a state because of the tough choices and the increased funding for education, we have actually in recent years cut the achievement gap between black and white students in half in elementary reading and math. the former governor has said that he would cut education funding this are that would put big holes in montgomery and prince georges county schools. how on earth is that going to help us improve our schools by cutting education funding? and i do believe there's a calculation of blaming the city

for think challengesbthat we face as a people. blaming newly arriving americans for the challenges we face as a country in order to take people's eye off the ball or the phak that it was his party and former president bush that drove our economy in to a ditch. and i think that it is unhealthy for us to turn on one another, and practice that politics of division and fear. i believe that we are all in this together. >> four points real quick. you have mandatory president bush mention in, congratulations. secondly, dci is the program he's talking able. he doesn't fund either. stimulus dollars came in to fund that. he didn't think it was important to fund. in fact, i have an interesting headline from the annapolis capital. o'malley to reduce education spending with regard to that particular program in 2007. not very consistent there. third with regard to those schools. these are schools. these are not regular schools.

these schools are graduating relatively few percentage of their kids and they were passing kids pro efficiency rating at four, 8, 18, 15%. >> let's give governor o'malley 30 seconds to respond. >> wait. >> she said it was my turn. >> he can have as much time as he wants. he can't explain it. >> it wasn't a takeover. our plan was -- which is our plan was to go public charter and i believe you didn't know what public charter schools. last time you were at the "washington post" tour award or private vendor. that's the answer to those schools. you were depriving those kids of their constitutional rights and that's not right. >> nine years ago not one grade in baltimore city scored majority proficient in reading or math and today it is a school system that is improving and that is recognized by people around the country.

there are few major cities that are improving as well as baltimore city is and that's what this is about. it is about outcomes for kids and achievement. it is not about constantly putting the city down and city children down. i have never heard you say one kind thing about the progress that was made in city schools. i have never heard you acknowledge the fact that baltimore achieved the third largest reduction in viole crime over the last ten years. >> i want to follow up quick with you. governor, he suggested you came close to playing the race card. could have a response to that? >> i find it almost amusing the way the former governor is recasting his record and his deep concern when all of us remember four years ago the shameful incident when homeless black men were put on a bus in philadelphia and shipped to prince georges county, left at poles to give out fraudulent election day information. and i find this sort of trashing of the city, this

downing of poor people, i find it offensive and i think it is unbecoming of someone that would purport to lead our state. >> you know what downs poors people, raising the sales tax. that's what downs poor people. >> let's go on to on line questions. there were many that were phrased in different ways but the gist of which were it has been said that you two don't like each other very much [ laughter ] >> why would anyone get that idea? >> i'm not sure. but this person wants to know if each of you cafan, in your most positive chivalrous way, could you describe how your opponent has done something to move maryland forward? what wants to start? >> why don't you start [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> i think the implementation of the flush tax was a good

thing. we could debate over whether how progressive it was when the wealthiest among us pay the same 2 a 0 a month as a senior citizen on a fixed income but that was a good move forward for maryland. >> i appreciate that very much because it is a big-time positive step for our chesapeake bay. you know what i admire about him? he does this. this is tough. it's not easy. nobody deserves a medal for this but putting yourself out there, putting your ego and your family out there, we both have young kids. we see commercials impact our kids. this isn't easy to do. sitting in front of the tv, radio, public life, many many fa commentators see public life as easy. you live in a nice house, i lived there for four years. there's perks no doubt about it but every day you go out there and your chief executive you are answerable to everyone,

6.57 million people. you go out there -- i had to talk to kendall, kids about running again because i know the criticism the attack ads. my point is i really like that. this is a nice thing and i mean it. for any public official particularly at this level, to put yourself in this position is not easy particularly given our situation with young kid and successful lives. and i would say that the governor is going around and talked a lot about the cover crops and nitrogen issues with respect to the bay and getting farmers involved and we have to do that an that's a good thing and aappreciate it. >> these are specific to each of you. answer on your own. they deal with the same thing. no longer the relationship with talking to each other but local leaders in the dc suburbs. we will start with governor ehrlich. your relationship with the local leaders in montgomery and

prince georges county can be termed frosty. if you return to annapolis are you going to work with them? >> my relationship with the local leaders during my tenure was pretty good. jack johnson, doug duncan and don't take my word for it, ask them. particularly, ask jack johnson to compare and contrast how prince georges county has been treated by the ehrlich administration opposed to the o'malley administration. i won't call him, i promise matt, but i will go with his answer if he will tell you and i think he will. with regard to doug duncan he was running against me and we became friends and that's what politics should be about by the way. we built the intercounty connector when we know you were against it. >> i wasn't against it. >> we will have to go to the fact checkers. you were over time by the way. we had a terrific relationship with doug. got a lot of things done.

i was cochair of the house of biotechnology and we have that together. particularly prince georges county ask the elected official and sam dean and derek davis, ask those folks how the ehrlich administration treated this county opposed to the o'malley administration. i will go with their answer. >> for governor o'malley, the national move the campaign season voters want to see more diversity among leaders. there's not one elected republican in montgomery or prince georges county and the state house and the state senate are controlled by democrats. if you are re-elected one party rule continues in maryland. why do you view that as a good thing? >> regardless of party what we have to have is leadership on our side that brings us together, that serves no special interest but the public interest. and is able to make sure that people, whether they are

democrats or republicans are brought together to face these very challenging problems that we have. and each of us served in different times. in much easier times the former governor did not -- was not able to get much done. could not forge any consensus. he increased state spending by more than any other governor in maryland history and increased $3 billion in taxes and fees but there wasn't a lot of progress to show for it. tougher times, we were able to bring people together to address the big deficit that we were left, and yet we have also made progress. we have greatly increased school construction, which when he was in office, in easier times he chose to cut that went to prince georges county. we have increased school construction in prince georges county to an all-time record high. it is 67% increase. we have increased school operating funding for prince georges county to an all-time high of 4.1 billion. we have in the toughest of times sustained prince georges

county hospital and much tougher times than what he had we have increased by four times the amount of support that goes to prince georges county the key to any leadership is not partisanship, ideology, dividing people, turning them on each other but bringing people together. >> did you get your answer? >> we are having so much fun but we are starting to run out of time. >> we need another hour. i demand another hour. >> i would love to do that, but now we have entered the rapid fire questions. we just have a few minutes left. please, this is the last few questions. keep your answers quite short. >> i will ask one. here in dc they allow gay marriage. what do you think of gay marriage in maryland. if someone is married in dc should they be able to have the marriage recognized in maryland. >> no. >> firmly opposed. >> to recognizing 0 allowing it. >> both. >> i think, however, bundles of

rights should attach to nontraditional relationships. we passed the bill when i was governor. >> i supported the attorney general's edition that we should recognize them and further more i think what we need to focus on is protecting rights equally. were a bill to come to me will protect rights regardless of the label applied to the union providing there were b@ protections for religious freedom i would sign that bill. >> in one sentence, this is another on-line question from bill in frostburg. how do you propose we can make the baltimore orioles better? [ laughter ] >> power hitting first baseman, another start and we're going to be there. >> great. >> governor. >> practice, practice, practice [ laughter ] >> very quickly to put it mildly pepco had a bad summer in the dc suburbs and their decline occurred both of your terms as governor. what can you do to make sure the power stays on? >> i directed the public service commission to go an investigation on that. and they will be coming out

with recommendations i believe not to presuppose what their recommendations might be i think we need reliability standards. i think the carriers in the deregulated market have an obligation to provide reliability and when they don't do it there should be consequences. >> you have an obligation to be honest about utility rate and you should have faknown you wer dema going on the issue and you have been found out. >> after you bragged about giving the public service commission a lobotomy. is that the one you were talking about. >> when the bill passed and you promised 72% and it went up 80 and you said sorry, didn't mean it. >> you were the one that touted us with that one. >> governor, in 1999, just check the record, i was in congress, trust me. i didn't draft that bill. it was mike mill and your leadership. >> i opposed the deregulation [ applause ] >> here we are again, sorry,

matt. that's an important issue and demonizing will stop in three weeks. trust me. >> please hold your applause. >> please please please. >> don't have a lot of time. >> reliability obviously makes sense. appropriate oversight from the a public service commission. there's been raises they should be working harder. >> last question briefly. buff in the public eye a long time. can you tell us one thing that a most people might not know. >> i'm really good on 70s and late ' 60s music trivia [ laughter ] not very good musician. he beats me there. >> who's your favorite late ' 60s musician. >> stylistics early philadelphia soul ' 70s and stylistics i had them play at the republican national convention when mike spoke. >> you are a song writer.

you can take this however you want. tell us something people may not know about you or your favorite song. >> favorite song or something they may not know about me. my wife says that i work too hard. and that i need to come home earlier more nights of the week. as far as favorite songs, i don't know, i think i will pass. >> okay. >> now i think we will head in to our closing statements. we have asked you to keep these brief. governor o'malley is going to go first. >> thank you very much. our country is in a fight, and it's a fight for our economic future. it's a fight for our children's future, and there are going to be some sate states that win in this state in our economy and some states that lose. the states that win will be the states that are able to bring

people together in order to protect our priorities of education, affordable college, invasion, all of the things that are fueling this invasion economy in maryland with small and large businesses, family- owned and corporations alike that are working on the most urgent problems facing us as a world. that invasion is also creating jobs every single day. in order to make this change, though, we need a governor who's on our side. the big banks. the big mortgage companies the big utilities, the big casino interests have all of the lobbyists and governor affairs specialists that money can buy. we need a governor who's on our side, who's able to bring people together to be straightforward, to attack complex problem and move our state forward so we can be a winner in this new economy. i love the people of our state. i am optimistic about our future if we have the courage to join together and move forward. thank you very much. >> thank you, governor. >> governor ehrlich. >> to some extent what you heard is why i'm running and

those casino interests are supporting you, not me. and when the dust settles in this campaign, a quarter million marylanders looking for work have lost 3,000 small businesses, have had the largest tax increase in maryland history band we spent $23 billion more over the last four years than the prior four years. that's a dismal record and we can and should do better. when you come down to it, why we do this, it is how the state views you. how the state views you. do they look to you as a source of revenue enhancement? more dollars, more regulation, more government or as a source of job creation to get those young folks in the work force and get maryland moving again. we will compare and contrast our records and governor o'malley has been relitigating and relitigating the past. today people are hurting. it's a serious time, folks. record unemployment, record

taxes, record debt. it's not think time for overthe top ludicrous negative ads. people are hurting. small businesses have been hammered. 401-ks have been halved. they are looking for leadership and vision. a serious time for serious people, serious dialogue by serious leaders and i hope you saw that today from me. thank you very much for watching and god speed [ applause ] >> and this concludes the maryland governor's debate brought to you by "washington post" live and wusa 9 which will rebroadcast this tonight at 7 p.m. on their digital channel and wamu 88.5 which will air it tonight at 8. thank you governor o'malley and former governor bob ehrlich [ applause ]

of your visit, right? >> kyle: it's not a visit. mom says we're moving here now. tavis: good evening.

from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, our conversation with former u.s. secretary of state condoleezza rice. following her role as national security advisor and america's top democrat under president bush, she has returned to stanford. this week she is out with her new memoir about her early years called." we are glad that you have joined us. our conversation with dr. condoleezza rice, coming up now. -- this week she is out with her new memoir about her early years called "extraordinary, ordinary people." >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i'm james. >> yes.

>> to everyone making a difference, you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and answer, nationwide insurance is happy to help tavis improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: dr. condoleezza rice is the former u.s. secretary of state and national security adviser under president george w. bush. prior to serving in washington, she served as provost of stanford, where she is now a professor of political science. her new memoir is called

"extraordinary, ordinary people." she joins us tonight from new york. dr. rice, an honor to have you on this program. >> pleasure to be with you. tavis: let me ask about the book. there are two versions and there is also a version for young adults. tommy the distinction. -- tell me the distinction. >> the young adult version is more on my earlier life, it is more condensed, it is before going to government for the first time, but both books i hope will be inspirational to young adults and their parents because mine is really a story of the unconditional love of parents and what it can mean. tavis: is there a particular message to young people? >> i want young people to understand, as my parents believed and convinced me, you may not be able to control your circumstances, but you can

control how you react to them. education is the key to being able to do that. my parents believed education was really armor against desegregation and prejudice in birmingham, and i believe that today, that education can be armor against anything that you face. tavis: to questions, first on me put the quote on the screen. "race is a constant factor in american life, but reacting to every incident is crippling, tiring, and counterproductive. i grew up in a family that believe you may not control your circumstances, but you can control your reaction to them. despite gross inequities, there has been progress and race is today no longer determining how far one can go. that said, america is not colorblind and likely will not be.

it is like a birth defect that you learn to live with but cannot cure." you really believe that race is no longer determinative of people's opportunities in this country? >> i believe that. we had it to black secretaries of the that the states, and we have a black president of the united states. race is an obstacle when linked with poverty and lack of opportunity. yes, i believe that race is no longer the impediment it once was. we don't see people and assume we know how far they can go, although we still see color. tavis: why it the description of race as a birth defect? >> the u.s. is born with a dirt -- birth defect called slavery. when slavery is the beginning, it has long long-term effects. i was 10 years old before i could go into a restaurant. my father cannot be guaranteed

the right to vote until 1965. even today, even though race is not determinative of how far you could go, too many people who don't have opportunities, who are living in poverty, are in fact black. tavis: how do you respond to people who say race may not be determinative of certain people, but just that it is the case for most black folk misses the point? >> there is an insidious nature of racism, but it is most insidious when it shows up as a belief that someone cannot achieve what president bush once called the soft bigotry of the low expectations. of course one has to overcome race, but if you are educated, if you take opportunities before you, you can overcome that. my question, tavis, is what are we doing to make sure that kids who may not have means, kids who are not as fortunate as i was to

have educated parents, that they have a chance. those other people we should be worried about. not people like me or my friends. tavis: how important was it and what role did it play specifically in the aggressive way that they put education in front of you that both of your parents were educators? >> it mattered, and it mattered that my grandfather, my father's father, went out of his way as a young sharecropper's son to get a college education. he kept asking people how colored man could go to college, and they told him about film and college about 30 miles from where he lived in alabama. he went there and when he ran at of money, he made a deal to become a presbyterian minister. once he had that college education, he was able to pass on that transformative power of education to his children, my

father and his sister, and on the other side my grandparents were determined and educated all five of their kids. what education is not everything, without it, you really cannot have a chance in modern life, and i'm just grateful that all the way back to my grandparents it was valued. tavis: you were an only child, your mother and father of both deceased. i want to go back to your childhood in birmingham. at first, i think some people are trying to figure out -- i have talked to you a number of times and i think i get it, but for those who don't know how it is you could have grown up in segregated birmingham, alabama, friends with two girls who lost their lives in the 16th street baptist church, one of them your dear friend, how does one espoused views, the beliefs, the political ideas that you believe? how does one end up on that side of the aisle with that upbringing?

>> but first, i have to say that people have an awfully vanilla, simplistic view of what people think. not all republicans think alike. i am, for instance, a defender of affirmative action, and i say in the book out quite clearly that i myself benefited from affirmative action. by the way, i don't think the work of affirmative action is yet done. i do, however, thinks simply thinking of the groups -- black, minorities, women, the port -- does not help the circumstances of the individual. you have to give the individual the tools to achieve, and for the most part i am very comfortable in that mainstream republican belief that individuals are the court to achievement. i think people are very simplistic in their view of what republicans believe. tavis: that phrase bake's a

follow-up. what does dr. rice mean -- that phrase begs a follow-up. what does dr. rice mean by, "for the most part"? >> i can very much myself to be a free trader. there are people in the republican party who do not believe in free trade. i am a defender of immigration as key to america's success, america's renewal, and i know some parts that are anti- immigration in the republican party. i don't believe everything that everyone who calls themselves a republican believes, but the core values i think are really american values. by the way, i think we will find a lot of those same values among many democrats. sometimes we are awfully simplistic in the way that we apply party labels. tavis: your father was a republican, and there is a straightforward reason and the book about why. >> in 1952, when my mom and dad

went to get registered, they were not get married, they were dating, my mother who was very pretty, but light skinned, the pull tester -- the poll tester said was the first president of the net estates, george washington. he said to my father, how many beans are in that jar. he was very disappointed that he was not allowed to register to vote. he went back to his church, and mr. frank hunter, one of his elders, said i know how you can register. there is a woman down there who was a clark and she was a republican and she will register anybody who says there republican. in those days, there were not really any republicans and birmingham and she was trying to build the party. that is how my father got registered to vote as a republican, but he remained republican his entire life. tavis: you ever think about how the republican party welcomed

your father for whatever reason they may have wanted him to be part of your group, and today there are still people wondering about when the republican party will get serious about reaching out to folks like your father? >> it is kind of funny that the only two black secretaries of state or serving republican presidents. the only black chief was serving a republican president. the democratic party does not have the only option on to win well for minorities. i served a president who i think cared about minority achievement, kids in school, minority kids in school. let's be fair, both parties have a lot to atone for what comes to issues of race and poverty. tavis: on that last point, we agree. i was about to say that you and colin powell were wonderful and econo, but you are just two people. -- you were wonderful and iconic, but you are just two

people. but i digress given that we agree on your last issue. that said, going back to birmingham, your father is a black republican, and yet you have folks hanging out at your house that did not fit the bill. when one thinks of condoleezza rice, you do not think about the black panther party, and you are having dinner at your house with socolow carmichael? >> he was head of the student nonviolent committee. it was because my father invited him at film and college -- at p hilmon college. my father was attracted to the radical side of black politics, although he himself was very conservative. i have always thought, one reason that i know my father was uncomfortable with some aspects of the civil rights movement was that he thought he would never be able to meet nonviolent

-- meet violence with the posture of nonviolence. tavis: something that may seem some plastic -- that may seem simplistic is childhood obesity. anybody who follows your work knows your an avid fitness person, get up at 4:30 every morning to work out, but you grow as a chubby kid. what was that like and how did you get dedicated to a fitness regimen? >> i was kind of chubby. if you look at the pictures in my book, i always had long legs, so i always looked like a round ball on long legs. later on, i actually decided to take up figure skating. it was kind of high-priced child-care. my parents were in graduate school and could drop me off at the ice rink and i stayed there. that started me off being more athletic and slimming down, and i have been fairly dedicated ever since.

tavis: it was not just if it is an education that turned you want as a child. you got turned on it in music and i will let you tell the story about how you got to be named condoleezza. the story behind your name and a connection to music? >> first of all, if i was a father -- if i was a boy, my father was going to name me john and i was on to be an all- american linebacker. but my mother wrote named the girls, and she wanted an italian musical name. it meant, "walking slowly." she did not like the implications. even worse was "allegro," which meant fast, and in the 1960's, that was not a good thing. so she settled finally on a name that meant "with sweetness," and

she change the ending so it would appeal to english speakers. we have italian ancestors my mother's name was angelina. name is genoa. tavis: what role has being able to play played in your life? i suspect given the levels you have operated at it must have been at times a respite. what role does it play? >> music is very much part of me. at first of all it has allowed me to have a place to go. when you are wrestling with brahms, it is not exactly relaxing, but you cannot think about anything else, so it really gets you away. and also allows me to do things like play with other musicians and play with the king of salt -- queen of soul. in that regard, i am very glad when i wanted to quit when i was

10 years old, my mother said, you are not old enough or good enough to make that decision. fortunately, i knew that was not a point for debate, and i kept playing. by the time i decided not to be a music major, i played well enough to play just about anything now want it to. tavis: how does a black girl from birmingham and of being fluent in russian, of all things? >> good thing. first, the start as a failed piano major, and you start looking for another major in college. i wandered into a course taught in international politics taught by madeleine albright's father, and you learn for some reason you are just passionate about international policy. for me, it says that sometimes your passion will find you, and it is something you would have gone looking for.

i tell my students very often when they are searching, as many college students do, try to find something you are passionate about and don't let anybody tell you that because she looked a particular way, you are a particular gender or race or ethnicity, that you should not be passionate about something that makes you very, very happy and content. tavis: my first question, we all know that you and madeleine albright, both women, but secretaries of state, both with unique and very different world views, but both of you connected to the same man. what do you make of the fact madeleine albright's father was your professor? amazing one of life's coincidences, one of those six degrees of separation. i think that the professor had to be understood as somebody who

really valued freedom. he was tremendously appreciative of what the united states had done for him and his family when they escaped, first as refugees from communism -- or nazism, and refugees from communism. he instilled that in me and i also know madelyn is a fierce defender of freedom. tavis: in this memoir, you talk a bit about this, and we will come back to this, that this book really ends where a lot of us hope it would begin. i know there will be another book that will perhaps talk about your policy positions and your role in government more intricately and intimately, but this is about your earlier life. that said, in a book written about you that you cooperate with, she writes a book and suggests that it is fascinating for heard that most all of your

mentors have happened to be white males, starting with the first professor. i wonder what to think about that characterization? -- i wonder what you think about that characterization? >> i have had lots of mentors, going back to childhood, but if you're going to be a specialist in politics and military and the soviet union, your mentors are going to be white men. that is the kind of the way it is. it just says to me that is a wonderful thing when you find mentors that look like you, but if he cannot, the most important thing is to find mentors. indeed, today, young women or young minority looking to make a mark in international politics or international security and russian studies would have the possibility of having mentors and role models that do look like them. but if we always wait for someone who looks like us, there

won't be any firsts. that is just the way life is. tavis: you have made the point that we have had two african american secretaries of state. i have a youth program and a young man you can't in my program called me and decided he could be -- who camped in my program called me and decided he could work and the state department. he was so excited because it wants to build a life in public service, specifically in diplomacy. i raise that to ask, how important is it to you now to see other people of color get into foreign service? >> it is really important. i used to say when i was secretary that i could go all day at the state department, meeting to meeting, and another -- and never see another person who looked like me. something is wrong when the

foreign service of the most diverse democracy in the world has a foreign service that is that homogenous. i tried through a number of programs to increase the number of black people coming into the foreign service and other minorities. i know that colin powell had the same concerns. but it is also incumbent upon students, graduates, undergraduates, to strike out and do something a little different. go to another country, learn of language, dedicate yourself to understanding the world better. because the foreign service of the united states of america should not be so white. tavis: let me connect that back to the book, specifically the fact that dr. king spent a lot of time in birmingham. you talk about the fact that

your father did not march with dr. king, although they were in birmingham. tell me more about that decision. >> my father did not, although people like my father, middle- class of birmingham, did many things in support of the civil- rights movement. both teachers, when the students when not in the streets to march, the birmingham school board wanted the teachers to turn over their names so i could keep them from graduating, and teachers falsified the names. our family also participated in the boycott of downtown birmingham stores and held food drives for families who are cut off by the public safety commission. but my father told my mother, at least, and i overheard him, he said, if somebody comes after me with a billy club, i will try to kill him. then my daughter will be an orphan. i simply cannot imagine my father meeting violence with

nonviolence. it was not in his character. tavis: what did you take from that as a child? i ask against the backdrop of the fact there is a part in this book, fascinating for me, from you about how naturally -- about how retaliation, your word, comes to you naturally. >> that was unfortunately against my little friends when they would not play with me for a couple days. i gathered up all my dolls and sat on the front lawn. they came over and said they wanted to play, and i said, no, go home, these are my dolls and this is my house. my father said, retaliation came a little too easy for you. i think sometimes there is a sense you have to fight back. not every day. sometimes it is better to ignore slights and constantly respond to them, but sometimes

you have to fight back and my parents taught me that. tavis: i know you to be, all of us know you to be a huge football fan. you made the point that you could've been a linebacker if you are a different sex, in your huge football fan. i am wondering why you and your father could never be fans of the washington redskins, given the amount of time that he spent in washington in your adult life. >> hard to believe, but the washington redskins were the last of the nfl teams to have black players. the redskins did not have black players, and my father never forgive them for those racist policies. we were fans of the cleveland browns and jim brown. every single sunday, they were the team. to this day, i'm still a cleveland browns fan. tavis: what the think of your team this season?

>> well, they have only lost three games. they have only played four. it will get better. tavis: and that is why she was secretary of state. you could not ask for a more diplomatic response. her name, condoleezza rice, former national security adviser and secretary of state, out with the first of perhaps a few memoirs, called "extraordinary, ordinary people." dr. rice, always good to talk with you. thank you for your time. >> good to talk with you, tavis. take care. tavis: that is our show. i will see you next time here on pbs. until then, good night from l.a., thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith. i>> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time with actor tony danza on his real-life role

as a teacher in philadelphia. that is next time. we will see you then. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i'm james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference, you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org--