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and this is you speaking. what does libertarian mean as little government as possible, as few rules as possible, that i'm not saying it should be taken to the absolute limit. the gives of that few rules but not nobody else. >> oh, clearly there are unnecessary rules in a working society. but they can be overdone. >> from recent tweets of yours portray an all-star approach as to right wing -- >> that was rather low. don't take my tweets too seriously.

[laughter] i think i would say the extremists on both sides were piling it on me. >> and you refer to the myths about you, mr. murdoch. is it your feeling that there's a lot of mythology around you that really needs to be debunked? >> yes. >> well, we'll see how we get on during the course of today. can i say what the plan is? >> well, we're going to focus on the political issues first, and the approach will be speaking chronological otherwise we'll lose track of where we are, then i'll go to the issue of phone hacking and then we'll look at some broader questions. are you content with that? >> yes, indeed. >> now the acquisition of the "l.a. times" and "sunday times" times -- the "times" and

"sunday times", you bid on those papers in 1980, didn't you, mr. murdoch? >> yes, i -- perhaps. forgotten. >> ok. we'll talk about how many. at that stage you having acquired "the "news of the world" in 1968 and the sun in 1969, you had quite a bit of the u.k. market, is that correct? >> well, "the sun" must have been a more sudden success than i thought in memory to reach 30% within 10 years, but i'll take your fear. >> and the deadline for the purchase if it was going to take place was march, 1981, and

by way of background, effective states for interesting mr. john was biged by statute to refer the casest case to the monopolies and murders commission unless in his opinion each time was not economic as a going concern, and the case was one of urgency. that's the position on the law. but i advise you to -- >> put in exhibits to prove that he said that and indeed that thompson. >> paraphrasing. it's whether the times and -- it's whether the "times" and "sunday times" -- can we look at the pluverage with checkers with miss thatcher. it may well be tab 15 in the

bundle. you'll see mrs. thatcher's press secretary noted that from the 5th of january, 1981, that number 01626 addressed to the prime minister attached to the record are the sailient points of your lunch yesterday with rupert murdoch. line with your wishes, it has not gone outside number 10 and is of course to be treated commercial incompetence. now this was a document that didn't enter the public domain until march of this year, mr. murdoch. do you understand that? >> yes. >> now according to this, you previously had no recollection whatsoever of this sflufrpbl

>> correct. i still don't, to be honest. but i totally accept mr. aims minutes. detailed minutes. which sound to me to be correct. >> i think i'd ask mrs. thatcher, could i see you? and she said, oh, won't you come to lunch. >> according to 0-627 -- >> yes? >> it was quite an intimate occasion with few numbers of people there. there was the prime minister, mr. thatcher, mr. -- and you. and the meeting was at your request. do you see that? >> yes. >> you don't mind if i tease you about this. when you told on july of last year that you wished

politicians would leave you alone, you weren't of course referring to this meeting. [laughter] >> i think this meeting was to inform the chief executive of the company of the likelihood of a change of ownership of a great iconic asset. i thought it was quite appropriate. >> if thatcher knew that was probable or i suppose one outcome might close the great two titles if you couldn't sell them. but two purposes behind. one was to brief mrs. thatcher and give her your thoughts about the -- what is described here as the embryonic and redeveloping reader administration. do you see that in paragraph two? >> yes.

i think it shows that at least the conversation at some time taken up by -- in american politics. >> and the preview of what is in this way, the president-elect reagan, boehnerness thatcher and you were all of course on the same page politically, weren't you? >> i guess that's fair. this was just before his naugs ration. >> the purpose of this meeting if one could talk almost psychologically to demonstrate to timothy thatcher how much you were quote one of us.

was that part of your purpose? >> no. of course you appreciated the importance of a face-to-face meeting. that's why you requested it, is that right? >> yes. >> and as mr. -- >> the purpose was not to tell her about president regan. >> she knew anyway. >> yes. >> the paragraph four, the main reason for the visit was to brief the prime minister on your bid for the "times" newspaper and then you explained to her what your bid bid amounted to in financial terms, and then you treated her to some tunes about who else had bid, is that fair? >> yes. that was pure speculation. i don't think thompson told me

of anyone. >> why was this important to you that mrs. thatcher understand the nature and quilt of your bid? >> well, as i said, this was the movement of a great institution. which -- find closure. and i thought it was perfectly right that she should know what was at stake. >> but she knew that anyway, mr. murdoch. >> no. i don't think she did know that there would be great problems with the unions and there could be the extent of the costs tambd risks. >> were you think to demonstrate to her that you

were the right man to acquire these great papers, because you had the qualities and charisma to take the papers forward and equally as importantly, you had the will to crush the unions? >> no. i didn't have the will to crush the unions. i might haved that desire, but that took several years. >> well, if we substitute desire for will, are we in agreement? >> i don't think it was -- to this meeting, particularly, but yes. we could get into the whole question of -- >> if you look at paragraph 10, mr. murdoch, 01629, you explained to mrs. thatcher that some 50 million of -->> make

sense of international news at bbc.com/news. >> funding was made possible by the freeman foundation of new york, stowe, vermont, and honolulu, newman's own foundation, and union bank. >> at union bank, our relationship managers work hard to understand the industry you operate in, working to nurture new ventures and help provide capital for key strategic decisions. we offer expertise and tailored solutions in a wide range of industries. what can we do for you?

>> "bbc world news" was presented by kcet los presented by kcet los angeles.