captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions batt dtiildfirelora's second >>m jeffrey brn. tomonws bearpoden rehe risk >> themocanyon fire has cast par st of colorado springs even as nt m prevee homes from being yed. hrn the test othe fire as it rages ross the state. >> brown: judy woodruff looks at the last minute sc onle ling ostudent loan rates and reach agreement on a trantation bil

>> ifill: margaret warner continues her reporting from mexico. tonight, she fes on the high cost war against dsrugs i inflicting on the r sidef border. arner: monterrey has longconsids place, protected by its mountains and its economic might. no longer. whetr monterrey tame the >> brown: a tumultuous time at a top puic uversity. we'll implicatio. >> ifill: we remr ephron, who usedor biting prose to capture spirit of our changi times in movies, books and essays for on tonight'syrs. "newshour." major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> this is the at&network-- a living, breathing intelligence bringing people together to g neeas to life. >> ide and outside theright min andea.y come together to work on adding to itthe from improving it in the cloud, alle.

>> good idea. >> it's the atetwork providing w ways to worktogethes better. thstitutions and foundations. ..d. this pro was made possible byhe ctionorpora public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station fromwe thank yo >> brown: a firestorm rage e colorado cry t after exploding across containment liar cneneorado spring firefirs str to keep up and homeowners scrambled to get out of the way

shour"orspdent tom bearden begins oov eporter: the flames swallowed entire neighborhoods on thedge of colorado springs overnight. hommayor's office said dozens were >> visibility is down to nea zero in northern parts of colora springs. >> reporter:aldo t wanyon fire seemed to flare out of control in the blink of an whd up excted.pping up tout 65il per hour. that was note plth. anhi're ing to ande knowt's going to binge toug to back ay anduit. >> reporter: some 32,000eoewe od st, ining hureds living on the u.s. air force academy caus. threcieyrabbs possess on t fly. >> so scared. i don'home. >> it's upsettin state on fire. flas were cominge hill onto the road and people anstuff.ving up on the median

so, it was nuts.eporr: shelterss up, offering f w the was even room for hoold pets. >> i'm kind of numb at the moment. i think the kids are haning it betthan i am. wee going to stay tonight and w we're goin get thing done. the fire was less than miles from mus were huge and pretty scary when u havehree ks and all your epor r: in fact, one in four in codore r k zone and 1,0 people have moved into fire risk zones in the last decade. at left a lot of people living but hey doedgacss 24 sqre miles. have the manpor to cope. ifou have all d boots on the gd,u lo houses l? ve t fire way she wantedcided to go. and when you have mo nature in that ki of siation, plus s e ree at affect fire behior: fuel, togphy and weather, when those the

nothing anyoneanere's >> reporter: and mother nature was set to pe fres challenges. >> we expect the development of thunderstorms over the fire thi. thundeuniqrm problem for us in that the w can come in any direction from the tty t strong gusts. ec wall of to be challenged a today. >> reporter:ther cllenge is the searing heat. colorado is in the midst of a seemingly endingeat wave that's seen temperatures above t-90's y. and officialsay the thick haze blanketing corado springs isn't expected to disappear ime anyton. yet another blaze-- the flagstaff re-- crept closer to boulder, colorado after lightning ignited yesterday. >> the clouds rolled through ant and we saw one come hit the flatirons and smoke billowed out right aftrds. >>eporter: the fire prompted mandatory evacuations in blder ty, anwarnings in the city of boulder.

>> we packed things that we thought were m photographs. on thorter: military c-130'sara ts even hired private outfits to protect their homee're pretreating thetion bes very signifintly which w hofor sevel hours. there was aof st good news fartr north: the 1 square-mhi contained.s now 65% >> we use the engines to wet down the fuels and then we have toe fi tghtersthat soil over and make sure all the liveial is, extinguished. olksloon't realize the rk that has go into-- if a gust of wind comes up thers nothint on the edge wto blo across the line. reporter: in factews that had been fighting e high park fire drove southoday, as reinforcemengainst t waldo canyon fire.

>> ifill: rainans the day wore on, but not yet enough to aid thosefirefighters. the white house announced today president obama will travel to colorado to tour thescen fire this friday. for more on where things stand, i spoke a short time ago with colorado governor john hickenlooper. governor hickenlooper, thank you for ing us. can you give ua sense of how much worhiats day than it this time yesterday?>>ell, you know we'vet therriblgh been fighting a num of fires retively speing, tinyrt of the state but seems like there's been a lot o fires. and knew we had this fire started on saturday just to the west of colorado prescription. but it was over on the otr side of the late yesterday afternoon, we had those, ynow, aro through with h w wha, they call a column collapse, litey in aatter ofhours thfire just blew past

everything that had been over-- i mean, nothing could hatopped i , 70-mile-per-hour gustes of winds pushed it through the treeand into the the residential subdivisions at a -- aga, the firefhters re incredible but notng could have stopp thisre. >> ifill: but you're still in00 people evacuated. do youave any way of knowing whether people obesehe evacuation orders, and where are they going? >> oh, they are defitely obeying theevaction orders. i mean, if you saw-- some of the fo annuaof the re, it was very intense. we f helicopter up yester to-- from denver-- we scene, we flew over the fire, and it looke se sort of a-- you know, extreme movie set. just fire everywhere, houses willy-nilly.

t thn'k anyone is trying tay if their home and defendome people areery frustred beingrced to their homes.ing about mostre staying with friends, and we have-- the redoss has done an incrediblef job o setting up shelters, but the vastity oreo staying with friends and helping each other which is how colorado and how america has always tell thwith these kinds of thgs. >> ifid howas air force academy beented by this? we know the at least been along borders. have there been evacuations there and iss a federal, state, or county responsibility? >> we evacuated the force academy yesterday. the fire was coming so fast-- and this was even before it blew up. so wworked out last night what we cal dual-stas command, a way where the governor and president can coordinate et. we have aual-status commander, a guy named pete burn, who san

air fonation guard representative. and so he operate the liaison so we can ta federal safetiesdis, bulldozers, helicopts-- whatever tool we cato bring to this fire and coordinate it so w don't get in eachher's ys natial guard and the civilian efforts and the u.s.est >> ifill: i'mor, go aheall tilt. weat today. i tald to-- i mean, we went all the way through thecommand. >> ifill: i tnked to the president about it. governor, you hady words yestday for the o do whty that arsonists may spreing thfire at is your sense if that i or whe is lightnin strikes or other sparks here? >> wel we don't have pure evidence, but certainly there ha been a lot of rumors and store wanto make sure

we don't jump tons. we wan s we are judicious and cautio in our approach. ju the verthought that somebody would be out there trying to cause a an arsonist who fome stnge make clear thatwe'd this, i throw theoo at them. in aggravate the arsonou can get up inicology col. and in-- in colorado. in conditions lihe it's so dry, and just to think abt putting people at risk like tt think drives everybody crazy. it makes your blood boil. ill: u can only hope the weather tu r advantage. vehn hickenlooper, t you much. >> we preciate it. and te tal government-- t president did ll today. we had staepal tano. we had so much support from all over the country. governor deval prick called this morng fro massachts. it does maou ameris. >> ifill: thanks so much.

l to come on the "newshour": deal-making on capitol hi; thimpact mexican drug war and remembering nora e thetherews of the day. herearn. >> sreenivasan: the remnants of opicalto debby moved ac northern florida today, e stterym's walog from the gulf of mexico left widespread flooding in coastal and inland communities. more than two fef rain fell some places. the storm is now just a tropical desion. beeit hasblamed for at let the deaths. nlo congressned back primary lengchal on tuesday. in utah, republican senator orrin hah easily defeated a tea party challenger in his bi for a seventh te and ew congressman charlie rangelon 22nd term.y battle, ming for a house 18 months ago for failing pay tax >> mcommunity has rall behiwhene ome of the most have been made

against me in the past. there's so much that has to be done in thountry, in my coity, a i'm just glad my community has faith and confidce in doing it. >> sreivasan: but in oklahom ve-term repuican congressman johnullivan lost his racwi a tea party-backed ot.ppen he is the fourth incumbent congressman to lose in a pri so far this year. britain's n elizeth and martin mcguiness-- former head ofhe irish republican army-- shar a highly symbolic handshake today. ey markee ment o reconciliation in ird after decades of violence. it is believed mcguiness commanded the i.r.a. when the oup killed the queen's cousin agreement itten in 1979.rn irey 1998 and the i.r.a. renounced violence in 2005. rnias soon to the largest u.s. e ptcy protection. ty cthe cincil began thepr work,

setting the stage for a filing by fy. stockton faces a $26 million budget shortfall. so far, forts to work out deals with the city's creditors have faile on wall street today, stocks surged aheadfter upbeat repoabout me sales, factory orders and business investment. thnes dow jodustrial average gained 92 points to close at .2,627 thnasdaq rose 21 pnts close at 2,875. those are of thday's major stories. now, back to jeff. >> bro: faced with a pair of weekend deadlines, congressional leaders neared a resolution agreements over studenloan interest rates and transporon judy woodruff has the story. >> woodruff: at the capitol this morning, leaders from boparts w. the senate's democratic majority leader harry reid opened the day's business. >> i am cautio optimtic tomorrow even with a little

of luck, but we may not be able to, we have to see what has the ne4 hours which will be key. >> woodrdeuff: o republican speaker john boehner echoed that sentiment. >> we're ming, i think tards an agreement on a transption bill thall one-ye fix on thstudent loan rate irease du fect by the first.of wk has gono this. it's not finished yet. woodruff: later came word of a tentative house-se deal. it would prevent the interest rate on federally backed student unday, july first. it would affect 7.4 million students. the measure would be attached to a two-year extension of transportation funding. it was reported that republicans dropped demands for immediate action on building the keystone oil pelinerom canada

ent has delayed the project, for further environmental study. joing us now to lp us understand what's ne is todd zwillich of "the takeaway" from public radio international and wnyc. welcome back. you, judy. >> so this is a bulletin. the two parties may be reaching an agreement on something. >> on two things,fact that are both expiring, and transportation bill, a bona fide bs bil it's ama what c can aclish wn things are expiring with & when it's time fair vacation. >> woodruff: democrats have been saying this is a jobs bill. have repuicans finally agreedwir rationale? >> think the republica agreed it was a jobsll everything gets stamped a jobs bill in this economy in congress. we have a tax cut, that's a jobs bill. her bive that's a jobs bill. the highway , the transportationill really is a it's a bona fide jobs bill.

money goes directly to s they spend it on federal highway pr worke the constructindustry is it really hurting. face jobs bill.whats really beee about the bill, the bona fide jobs bill roughout the recent historof congress always had bipartisan buy-in. every district has a stake. evermbas stake. the unions like it, the chamber of commerce likes it, the nati asstion o manufacturers-- the big hit ears they a like it. they all l ti i, too, but again we have talked all year about the conservative reblican houshe unusually conservative tea party and freshmen and conservative republican househo ballgames. the nate passedsgh bill with74 votes, broad partisan consensus and it was the use thatld oget tr and they nev passed a bill. >> gord: the houseeade lhip wasn't abluntil now to get the cons. >> they may not be on ard. they're going to have to arove

this conference report if and when it comes. we'll of hoe conservatives will vote for it. the democrats will vote for it. a large chunk boehner's republicans will vote for i but not all of them. and we'll see in the end without anreement with theeystone pipeline, as you san piece, this is not included. the republics gave in on it. >> woodruff: why did they give in on it? >> tsay they gave in, becathe democrats' price to include keystone w more government di really, what happened in this se was that withouta billf own,he house republdidnicans have a great al of verage with the senate, which, ain, passed with 74 votes, republicans and democrats together, the senate had great deal more leverage in this negotiation. the sate didn't want to it. the house republican leaders did, and ultimately had to deal it away in order to get a bill. w meanwhile, on the student loans the interest rat ll >> a year. >> w druff: howcome togeth >> that came texping deadline.

the republicans have been frustrated over thi because they have been making offer upon offer on offer of how to pay for i 's retively smallill. it's $6 billion over a year. it's not thauc publicve been ring pafors. democrats have been balking, and republicans claim the democrats are milking this. they like to call it obstructionist, the running against congress, so whe reic house poised toow by holding a member of the presidmpt. conte tell us where that stands. >> that stands on the precipice of a vote there is a congressional picnic, judy, this evening on the lawn of the white houaditse, trnal picnic. eric holder is is attending and won't that be a little awkward. rrscheduled for e first ti to hold a member of cabet in contempt. that vote is going forward. there are no signstt will abate. there were some last-minute negotiations yesterday between use officials and

represves enti the house make some last-minute deals documents related to this fast and furious gun program that theolwing and botche yed last that resulted in the death of a bordernt. >> woodruff: and you were just saying to me, just quickly, todd, a minuteo, at this point, republicans in the house evidence tthe torney any general agreed. >> investigas darrelisis said that. th evidence nor do eric holder knion fast andurious. contempt is because fused to comply with a subpoena relating from year, failure to produce documents. interestgly, that hasn't stopped the national rifle association from saying they're going to score this vote and keep tra of which members vote for it or against it. >> woodruff: which course affect what some >> highly political pgh >> naok allo: andappening on the day the supreme court will come out withotal pivealth

care rulings. ofd you were saying the timin his will mean what? the house leadership has done this on purpose. >> t a matter of scheng. they hadn't scheduled this,ven when w weret sure if thee w out on nday. le cruling tomorrow on the e act isa ba er election issue. it will be the bst polital story of summer, if the the yeariln itself. you can call it coincidence our against eric holder, which conservatives nt will be part of the same news day and you can call that buried if you wa to. we will be talking more about health care tomorrow than an unpress departmented contempt vote ainst the attorn ge >> woodruff: zwillich of the take, thanks very much. >> ifill: next tonight, the devastating impact of ongoing ug vnce in mexico. margaret warner filed this storr intate the sf nuevo leon

its capital, monterrey. >> reporter: jaime rodriguez i driving from monterrey to his nearby suburban town in a jeep with special upgrades: bulletproof glass, heavy armor and two backup s.u.v.s with his -armed chavos-- his guys.onder. drug cartel gunmen tried to assassinate him twice last year. he they hid and fire, bang bang, bang. one died here, i was t, i saw one of my bodyguards get shot. it was like a battled. >> reporter: rodriguez bame mayor of the fast-growing town of garcia three years ago, vowing to confront the zeta drug cartel that had taken overis town. qtrthe entire police force was in cahoots with the narcos and the cartels.

city administrators collaborated, too. the entire city was under siege. >> reporter: the gangs hit hreeays after he took office, killing his personal security chief rodriguez struck back. >> ( translated ): i decided to fire all the police, and we did it. we closed 250 stores where drugs were being sold. i went after the top leadership of the zetas ling he, like el piojo. >>eporte tnd o toughness won him the nickname "el bronco", celebrated in s videos and games like "el bronco, but myth-making can't match the brutal staics. homicides in his state of nuo leon, with mexico'althiest city, monterrey, skyrocketed six-fold in three years, from un009 30 nearly 1800 last year. kidnapping, robbery and extortion kept pace. terrey has long considered

itself a special place, protby id mountains and its ecomic might. but no lge whether monterrey can tame the sequences drug violence hereound for this citd for mexico itself. >> i say all the time that we were like in disneyland here; nothing happened. >> reporter: we met jorge domene, nuevo leon's security spokesman, at a new codination center for federal, state, local and military acartel operations. >> we can watch in real time all the patrols with the g.p.s we can be hearing the conversation that'real time and everything is recorded. >> reporter: he blames the expln of violence on two gangs-- thtas and the gulf cartel-- battling over drug routes into the u.s. and a balloonihinru mexico. the principal casualty, peace of mind. bar owner rgio trevino runs la

tumba in monte's buzzing bar district. >> ( translated ): there used to be 90 places that offered all types of music, food; cafes. now they're only about eight places left. >>eporter: sugar mill baron alberto santos says the social toll is huge. >> you see military patrols with armed people. that's shocking. he middle a war. >> reporter: the army arrived in november 2010, butasgu brought a grisly turning point-- the first wholesale massacre was torched, limits.locacasi lling 52 people trapped inside, ignited by the zetas, police said, in an extortion dispute. patricia saenz can't get over her husband's death. >>slated ): they di't

just end my husband's life, but mine and my children's as we. re like zombies at home. >> reporter: francisco tamayo, who lost his wife, said despite a few arrests, theren no's bee justic >> when it comes to the responsibility, thners, the ities, the government have not been present. reporter: yet samara ferez, whe son died, was af to say who she thoughdid it. >> ( translated ): if i tell on an international network the name of the criminal organition, it's going to cost me my life. >> reporter: there's one borough of greater monterrey the where gangs don't roama wealthy clave caed saned. insurance man alejanvareo al me ws wife nancy were headed h their young so. ul pefce, is it? >> yes, it i it always has been, and the people that live here tha know

san pedro is veryif >> different in large part >> reporter: different in large part because of another tough- guy mayor: mauricio fernandez. with aown the size of el broncos, he collects six times the tax revenues. he's hired more police per capita than anyplace else in mexico. he denies cut a deal with the cartels to ensure pee. hat's absurd. are so many organizations in organized crime that you want to deal with one, you make that mistake, then another one will try come and compete you for thatosition. >> instead, fernaez >> repter: itead, fernandez relieshis own intellce unit and makes gangsters an offer they can't refuse. >> i have many ways to get rid of tm. t when you confront a person and you tell, you beng to the organized crime, and you better go or we kno don'twhat is going to happen to you, they leave. so it's intimidation. it works. >> reporter: his ultimate enforcer: the army.

>> if you have the army on you side, you don't need any bad guys like that to do ry rt >> reporter: nuevo leon state is trying to replace corrupt cops, too. with funding from city business interests, it's recruiting a new fuerza civil of uncorrued cops with such high salaries and benefits, that tir have a lot to lose if they go bad. >>e had made great leaps in n , anunder the umbrella of the drug war, human rights are being thrown down the drain. >> reporter: mexico city businessman armando santacruz helped found mexico united ears ago, after a kidnapper known as the murdered an acquaintances son. >> some parts of society believe that, well, we're dealing with instate president teresa criminals, we're n dealing thmove came 16 days after the with artists he so we ca same board had ousted suivan-- leading to strong protests by treat them with kid gloves and faculty, studentand others around the state. the precise reasons for the that's a totally mistaken ea. board's move were never clear, but were said to involve differences over how fast theunn

reonse to budget pressures and changing technology. yesterday, sullivan called all do not ask that we sweepr.>> any differences under g, but rather that we engage one reporr: sister consuelo another in candor and respect. >> there is a fight between all of uing: among the narco-traffic and ste, but also what we the what is be for our university. citizeuffer a lot is the >> brown: in fact, while the violence generated by the state. specifics differ, public institutions across the country >> reporter: sister consuelo are facing s problems, including slashes in morales is an advocateor the state funding and increasing tuition rates. so-called disappeared in monterrey, like tens of the university of california hep esr groumates some 40% system, for example, was hit were taken by police or military with state cutbacks in the last for questioning, torture or y summecution. year totaling $750 million. u.c. davis chancellor linda katehi spoke to the "newshour" >> they are taking away people that have nothing to do with aboue this criminal situation. eporter: peoe ke jehu >> we are making higher education more of a private sepulveda who got nabbed in san good. pedro 18 months ago for driving without proper documents. we are asking the individual familind the individual his wife, mother and sister students to pay for their own insist he wasn't tied to cme or the drug trade. education. the time when the state was the all they know fosure ihe was taken to a local jail.>> ( tranm main contributor to the cost of

.higher and i don't necessarily see us policeman told my husbs going back to that. he'd been taken away by the >> brosawn: ev marines, so then we went to the marines and they treated us sullivan holding her job at badly. they said, "no, we have never virginia, all in all, it's been seen your husband." a rough year for leaders of public universities. >> ( translated ): we just want the universities of illinois, some answers, that my son is still alive. wisconsin and oregon have all seen top level changes in the st 12 months. and we pick up on parts stof th, >> reporter: sister consuelos president of ohio state university. families has led to the arrests george cohen is professor of law of more than a dozen people, at the university of virgi including police and governmen officials. law school and current chairman have there been threats against of the school's faculty senate. you? h, yes. and anne neal is president of the american council of trustees and alumni, an independent, non- in mexico to work on human rights is a risk but now because n that tracks issues in higher education. of the violence that we live and i should say for the record here, violence fm the before we begin that i am a authority, violence from the tuition-paying parent of a narco traffic, it's worse, no? university of virginia student. >> reporter: the gruesome violence on the narco side mass that out of the way, gordon gee, i'll start with you. shoot-ups and mutilated bodies i want to come to you first as a has shocked mexico's conscience. afar.sity president watching can you tellinou brief what you debate on how to end it is venturing beyond the long-term take from what happened at virginia? what does it speak to for

goals of better schools, courts and less corruption. two once-fringe ideas are gaining traction. wherevers like universities like yourself? the military assault on >> obviously the are pressur trafckers should be re- focused, to hammer the violent times for universities and i cartels, says armando santacruz. think this is evidence of the fact that there are a lot of changes taking place, external the priority should be to to the universities, internal to reduce the violence and keep the population safe. the universities, and how one aligns that between boards, if getting a drug lord along the way is needed for that, good. alumni, and friends.udent, if it's not, well too bad and if some other countries get made, this is an early example of a number of the kind of pressures i think we're going to face. this is a fundamental resetting of the american economic system, t mage well, i'm ry sorr >> reporter: alberto santos and as you well know. >> brown: anne neal, you told other civic leaderhaveen us earlier you generally were out ads ging debate on an even more radical idea, legalizing drug use throughout mexico. supportive of the board at >> only igin of the virginia. problem is the black market with what do you think is the most drugs. impot ctor now facing that's a huge business. public universities? better police will not solve the what is the problem, exactly? problem of violence related to >>l, i wt say, first, drugs. clearly the process was deplorable in terms of its lack it's aig medical problem and uld addressed as a medical problem. of transparency, but i do think >> reporter: for now, though,dav it's very important that we not let the process eclipt the more count on local leaders to tough it out. though el bronco's term ends important issue, really bthe later thisear, he sa he'll future of public higher continue the fight.

education. and i think what've weearned in the university of virginia >> ( translated ): death and i have become friends. situation-- and we can look at california and institutions god put me here. across the country-- is that we he has saved my life two tim. really are at a defining moment for public higher education. ey kl me. gotoa, puic higher educationh if i'm no longer afraid. continues on the current course >> reporter: sadly, most that it is, in fact, on a mexicans can't say the same. collision course. one of the thi that we've noted in our varis sties is >> ifill: earlier today, margaret hosted a live twier chat about mexico's drug war. today we spend two times the average of any industrialized you can view a recap of that nation on hgher ed, but our conversation on our website. in her next story, she profiles results are far worse. we're graduating less than 60% otraer who captures the gritty reality of day to day life in juarez. in six years. a study called academically , looked at the learning gains of college student across the country and 45% didn't learn or had very minima cognitive gain in the first two years. as you know, as a t-payong >> brown: w, a school founded by thomas jefferson is rocked by parent, tuitions have gone up and been skyrocketing for decades and i think finally have where colleges universities are beginning

ank you, board the university of virginia for pring bringing this schoe 's rooo back to under omas jeffers the fore-- that we've got to start looking at different ways of doing what we're doing. >> with high honor and great >> brown: i want to bring pleasure, yes. george cohen in. >> brown: it was a dramatic end to what had become a painful upper opposed to the board's spectacle, as the governing virginia voted tuesday to re- original ouster of the president there. picking up on what you just heard, do you thk everyone buys in, first, to the need for a new model, the sense that things aren't working, a change is need eded? >> i think everyone agrees there are a number of problems facing universityes, and the faculties that i've talked to are all understanding of that, and ready to move forward and work cooperatively toward change. i think what happened at the university of virginia was we felt that we had a president who was able to work with faculty and was going to move us toward change, and the board made thisn thinconsulting anyone, really, including faculty. what we want is a voice at the table, and we want to be able to

constructive solutions to the problems we know we all face. >> brown: there was, professor cohen, staying with you for a moment, there was this question of incremental versus rapid change. from where you sit, does it feel like rapid change is possible of the kind that we just heard, for example, called for by miss neal? >> i think there are a number of problems that need to be dealt with in a number of different ways. there is no simple solution to a lot of these things. so for some problems, incremental change may be what's called for. for other problems, there may be room for some kind of rapid change. but i ink 's important to note that-- i dot see anything of the kind of emergency whereen discussionnd debate about things that need to be done, where you can include a variet of experts and different views. examn thple, ofaculty at theor university of virginia, including experts on things like

online education, which has been done in a lot of different aspects-- areas ofthe university for a number of years. and we ought to build that expertise and bring these people in to help create solutions. >> brown: well, lete ask gordon gee. one of the issues here that's always raised is should universities -- especially public ones-- be run more like businesses, just more on a so corporate model? you can see yourself-- how do you see yourself? are you a c.e.o. of a major corporation, or what would that mean? >> no, you know, the issue for universities is thect that we are now in aomin time in which we're really going to h to think very aggressively about change. at the same time, we havto understand that our business is the business of ideas. and so ideas the are sometimes messy. sometimes they're difficult to put your arms around. in my view, what we're abouts returning to the core. and my own instance, in my own institution, we are fusing on teaching and learning and

research and ias and faculty, staff, and stud, and 11 million ohioans if what we're doing at the university is not central to that core we will do somethi diffely. we privatized our parking, as an example, giving us the ability to be able to invest, clearly, in the central core of the institution. often i hear the notion about we're privatizinhere are, corporatizing. that'snonsen. what we're about iseally developing a new strategy for the funding and the structure and th dynamics of higher education. you can do it in an inclusive manner but you have to move forward. there's a real ury aut what we need to do in higher education. >> brown: anne neal, another thing that comes up is the question of dropping departments or dropping parts of what the acy,ies do, unsuccessful or unproductive ones, however one would define

that. would you advocate looking at that as things that universities need to do? >> well, i thi we're going to hao look very broadly at a whole range of activities on our college campuses. effecte and efficienuse of our academ focused on academic excellence doesn't take a corporate radar to do it. and i think this is in fact what has been raised very effectively at the university of virginia that thee beav many, many topicshat, quite frankly, haven't been on the table. look at the budget, questions of faculty teaching lodes -- can they teach more and go back to the standards of the 1980s, where tly one near more than they do now. we find ways to reduce ministrative bloat which has ramped up at institutions elsewhere. we looked at the university of virginia and we found there were 71 classes where there were 10 or fewer graduates.

and these are the kinds of issues, the kinds qutions that should be on the table. toniht think we necessarily need to dictate the outcome, but the fact is, unless bee have that robust discussion and now, it really will be a model of ever-adding, ever-adding, that we just simply can't deal with anymore. i thinit interesting since the g.i. bill it really has been a growth model. and clayton cristiensen in his book "innovative university" has talked very much to trusteeeesed other communities that the growth boddle doesn't worknd here is anportunity for universities to reallyfocus powhat they do well. >> brown: let me ask george cohetoeact what he just heard, especially using a business model, making hard choices? >> i agree that there are hard choices that need to be made. think we need to keep in mind, also, the value of a liberal arts education which is that if you have people trained to

reason well, write well, speak well, do effective research, we don't know where the jobs of the future are going to be. and we need to be flexible in the way we educate our students because we don't know which languages will be the most important ones in 20 years, which technologies will be the most impor you need people who are able to adapt and respond to changing circumstances. and there is a value in being able to offer a portfolio of courses and subjects that can help students be trained to be ve.adapti >> announcer: >> bwn: gordon gee, do you want to weigh in on this? let me ask gordon gee to weigh in on this. >> obviously, i think the process of change eyedescribe american universities this way-- i think we're elephants. i k we have to become ballerinas or else we're going to become dinosaurs. and have to take charge of our own aty make those changes. otherwise they'll be imposed from other places.

we have to wor collectively, we have to work with our boards but we soto ve because we have no choice. the american university is not broken. we still are at the pinnac of higher education worldwide but we also are greatly threatened if we do not make the kinds of changes i believe are necessary uccessful. >> brown: we are going to have to leave it there, a very interesting subject which we will return to. anne neal, george cohen, gordon gee, thank you all very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> ifill: finally tonight, remembering the remarkable career of nora ephron. esyist and humorist, best- selling author, movie director. nora ephron became all three in fields where few women soared as so high. born in 1941 to screenwriting parents, she began her career as a journalist in new york.

in short order, she gained notice for biting humor and a gift for turning a phrase. in essay collections-- "i feel bad about my nk" and "i remember nothing"-- she expounded on everything from divorce, to aging, to failure. by the early '80s, ephron-o was born and still lived on manhattan's upper west side-- harned to screenwriting. she explained to pbs' roli in 2. >> i think there was a certain moment i realized i had to make r oughmo money to live as a writein new york city and not have to move to some... some place like new jersey. >> there's nothing wrong with living in new jersey. >> i'm just saying you don't live there and i don't live there. that'true. >> it would have been okay but it wasn't what i had in mind. >> ifill: her first movie was "silkwood", in 1983, directed by

mike nichols and starring meryl reep. >> you didn't even have the decenc hide the evidence. you just threw it in a drawer, hotel, motels. oh, ( bleep ). >> you couldn't even pay cash like a normal philanderer. you charged everything! i mean look atiser -- look at all these flowers that you bought for her! >> ifill: that collaboration continued with "heartburn", a film based on ephron's scathing novel about her second failed marriage. in 1989, her screenplay for "when harry met sally" touched a popular chord and brought an oscar nomination. >> what i'm saying is-- and this is not a come on in any way, e or form-- is that men and women can't be friends, because the sex part always gets in the >> that's not true. i have a number of men friends anere's ex iolve >> no, you don't. >> y, i . >> no, you don't. >> yes, i do. you only think you do. >> ifi: ephron was nominated

for another screenwriting oscar for "sleepless in se 1993 film which she wrote and directed. aftereing diagnosed with leukemix yea ago, she collaborated with meryl streep appet!gain, directing "julie and >> bon appetit! >> ifill: a year later, in the chlie rose interview, ephron said she never stopped challenging herself. >> i think that keeping yourself fresh dng i the aging process and findin things that are rd for you is someththat you havto do el yt repeat yoursf. >> yeaed you grow. tuesday in manhatt. was 71 years old. ionale with some addit thoughts on h ef41.

charles magrapteh is afor the "" form etor of the book revw and head of the new yorkir fin depament wrote on nh's passing today. seemed in maays norah ephron had nogo with the people who loved her work so much. shsaised in beverly hills, was a creature of the upper west side. people wer able to connec >> first of all, she wa funny, and you can't pay e hat. thatyounest.he t weret supped to she said that old age was not a wonderful growth opportunity. it was often kind of crummy. and i think you also saw in the movies, you saw something that you didn't necessarily see in her writing, which was a kind of sententaliybe even a

dthings as a person. she waa marvelous frie t great manyeopl and i think thatde andle who was sensed that abt hetheyind of few her. >> ifill: where did she findtha? many journalists find it in report figuring it out and interviewinger people orhe finders from within w guess from within herself. she had it. i mean, she had it from the very beginning. i can remember-- and i wasn't the only one-- back in the late 60en she had moved from writing for the "new york po#- , very original esays forand "the" thinking where did this person come from? nobody was writing like that back then. and her writing voice was i a k ofistilled how she spok she was a wonderful

conversationalist. aise said before, she told the truth. she said the things you weren't supposed to say and she said them in a disarming way. of people, she wasn'tan.e wailes funny and honest. ifill:ow re is it in the arts to be abl dall of e things she did? she was an essayist. she s a humist. she was at, s was shnever stopped wring for print. how rare is it that someonedoes all of those things? ompletye. i can't think of ody hike her. i mean, all writers dream maybe one day, "oh, maybe i'll have a screenplay." she had a bunch. director.she actually became a i mean, many of us who knew her upper astonished when that happened. and then it turned out she did it so well. it was as if steeper born to do it. i talked yesterday to mike

nichols and he said something inhe tstught norah comply underd the process of film making. she mahave aeady learned that at home from her parent but what made her so good was her people skills. she could build a team. she knew hue to-- how cajole ople and get them through the tough parts. he said these are the people don't realize went into the ng of a movie and she had those in great undance. >> ifill: one of the things she liked to telleoe is she was sick of appearing on panels about women in films and yet she's one of the rare birds, one of the rare women at her level in the film industry. is that something she just resisted, this notion that she was this breakthrough female? >> yes, i think so. i mean, norah was a-- was a feminist. i think she wosay that. rly on,he sometimes wrote some fun pieces about femism. but she was very aware that,

a female in the film ss, she was ait and she didn't think that was right, but she didn't think that she should be stopped. and i think one reason why she became a directo was to get more control over her material. she had seen wth her parents what happens if you're just a screenwriter, and how hollywood can roll over you. so she became a director and a producer, and she did make fun of panels about women in film. she was very proud of the fact that she wasoing is and was so successful at it. >> ifill: i have to ask you on one more question that she woul obably hate, which is what is her legacy? as someone who was so much out front ing this kinork words from their favoriteorah epooks, and plays and essays, what do you think she left behind as a legacy to other people whoight want to do it or other people who might

want to learfrom the way she did it? i think the greatest legacy may be just her own example. she did it. she got thingsone. she hated whining and self-pity. she was a great believer in pulling up your socks and getting things done and not letting people tell you, you can't do them. she did them. and i think that anymore may lingert longest. but i think people will continue to watch these movies. i doubt that they'll date ever. and the same thing is true for the many of the essays. >> ifill: maybe that's why we department know about her illness as well. she just decided to put one foot in front of the other and do what she needed to do. >> yes, very fewpe even people who knew about her very well, knew about illness until they began to getll latemo i talked yesterday spieerg whwas very close to norah. they never worked affect but they kind of showed each other their scripts all the time. he did not know until yesterday afternoon. she didn't want people to know.

she didn't want to be treated any differently. two weeks ago she was still working on a pilot in her hospital room. fill: d is i the way she wanted to leave. but she left so much behind. charles mcgrath, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> brown: again, the major developments of the day: emergency crews in colorado battled a destructive wildfire that doubled in size overnight and threatened coloro springs, thats second largest city. the mnants of tropical storm debby moved into the atlantic ocean, leaving major flooding across northern florida. anreports out gresof consaid house ansenate leaders had antan transportation projectsandke funded. on our website, we have your viewer's guide to tomorrow's expected supreme court ruling on

>> ifill: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. on thursdall look at the suprcourt decision on the health care law. i'm gwen ifill major funding for the pbs wshour has beeprovided by: and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer production

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