until then, good-bye. captions by: midwest captioning des moines, iowa

>> this is "bbc newsnight." >> funding for this presentation is made possible by -- the freeman foundation of new york, stowe, vermont, and honolulu, newman's own foundation, and union bank. >> at union bank, our relationship managers use their expertise in global finance to guide you through business

strategies and opportunities of international commerce. we put our extended global network to work for a wide range of companies, from small businesses to major corporations. what can we do for you? >> it has been a truly momentous week. first, the u.s. election. the confirmation the chinese elite will steer china through the next decade. >> china will develop its own type of democracy, whether the west except it or not. >> we speak to henry kissinger in his first television interview since president obama was reelected. >> i think that both obama and xi jinping will have to acts

themselves how they expect the relationship to of golf. >> with social media websites going in and out of fashion, we asked the founder of tumblr makes this different. >> it is a delightful surprise when you bumped to a stranger who cares about the same stuff that you do. >> the leadership of the world's second-largest economy is being replaced according to plan. the incoming president will come under increasing internal and external pressure. as hu jintao hangs over to -- hands over to xi jinping, demand for social change, health care, pensions grow louder. hu jintao has said there will be

no western-style democracy but how much will the media fuel the continued protests? ♪ ♪ >> there is theater, spectacle, but no drama. embolization is not encourage, nor indeed expression. -- improvisation is not encouraged. nor indeed, going against. the script at the party congress is simple, the handover of leadership from one generation to the next. the outgoing man, hu jintao, leaving them with a stark warning. >> combating corruption and promoting political integrity is a clear-cut and long term

political commitment at the party. if we fail to hand over this issue well, it could prove fatal to the party. >> recent events have shown the order is fragile. the third most powerful man was disgraced after his wife was convicted of murdering a british businessman. what the leadership desires now is calm. >> the one thing that you can say about china is that after the cultural revolution, their senior leadership decided that they needed consensus and they did not want any radical departures in policy. one of the reasons why the former party chief was purged this because he was not that kind of leader. he was charismatic, he had a lot of different policies and he threatened to upset the balance.

there will be a lot of continuity. >> the massacre in 1989 was the product of a split within the party between reformers and hard-liners. for the leadership of vowed never again to let the debate on political and economic change spill out onto the streets. instead, this takes place between one -- between two and a knowledge factions at the highest levels. the incoming standing committee comes into two camps. one oil to -- one loyal to the former leader and the other to the current leader. one stands against democratic reform and for a map of the move to the free market. they are the most capitalists' communists in china. the party around hu jintao came in within the use a sling.

-- came in at with the use league. the new leader, xi jinping, comes from the jiang faction. who is he? >> he experienced a lot of hardship. he went to the countryside at the age of 15. he spent seven years in that backwater areas of china. then, he started working at every level of the government until now. >> this is a shanghai academic whose best-selling book is said to have influenced the new leader. >> this is very important. often, he can speak his mind openly. he has his own style. >> what would he do differently to hu jintao? >> he has said many times whenever he takes up a new position, he tries to see what

his predecessors have done. he would like to maintain a certain coherence and continuity. >> but the party cannot afford to just continuity. outside of the great hall of the people, this brief and stifled protest for just a small echo of the problems that china faces turned to the middle class would like a bigger slice of the pie. -- this brief and stifled protest for just a small echo of the problems that china faces. the middle class would like a bigger slice of the pie. this date there will not be more political freedom. understanding what they are trying to say at this congress is not easy. the political bureau has comprehensively to afford these socialist economic, social,

political, and conservation culture. with various causes achieving remarkable results. it is impervious to large it. how would you argue that it is not remarkable or comprehensive? the subtext is clear, the chinese leadership has seen the error of spring and is terrified of a tiny spring. leadership has leade and ishe arab spionring terrified of a chinese spring. there is much to the islands dispute that is peter but it has left the west and the chinese neighbors wondering where things go next. -- there's much to the island dispute that is theater. course we should enhance the

capability to enhance a wide range of military task. the most important is to win local wars in an information age. >> last year, president obama authorized a major redeployment by the u.s. military to asia. it involves moving 9000 u.s. marines from japan to guam, austria, and why. putting four high-tech combat ships into the vital trade line of singapore. moving a fifth of navy ships from the atlantic to the pacific. also, there is talk of moving some of the troops in afghanistan to the philippines. >> this was the most important thing that the obama administration did and it was utterly amazing that in of the debates was there any discussion about its appropriateness or what its future ought to be. since the financial crisis of four years ago, the chinese have

been much more assertive in foreign policy, particularly in these territorial disputes in the south china sea. they have been saying some pretty outrageous things about for example the fact that none of the states in that area can talk to each other how to deal with a rising tide of. they all have to deal with china bilaterally. >> a party theorist ones that the real threat to china lies in the american encouragement of rights lawyers, underground religious activists, dissidents, a vulnerable groups. when this list was published, there was outrage because of the overtones with mao era which ones. there is no problem of democratic accountability at all. >> china will evolve its own type of democracy, whether at

the west except it or not. i'd describe it this as some kind of election of a the past 2000, 200 years since china was traded to. at the top level, it is always a unified confusion. we havwithout this type of structure, the country will disintegrate. what is the greatest fear in your life, it would be chaos. >> right on cue, the past muster of dealing with chaos, the living symbol of political repression was given center stage. on a day of heavy symbolism, it left many tennis people

thinking, back to the future. >> during the american presidential election, mitt romney and barack obama levels of varying degrees of criticism at china, particularly for its economic practices. china rails against what they see as american protectionism. each country is the biggest market for the other's exports. they are bound together. it is the idea that a military conflict is unthinkable? what would be the defining features of their relationship in the next decade? >> the lesson of history is that week empires give way to the strong. america's current preoccupation with china has produced these

political attack ads as well as plenty of campaign rhetoric. >> they are artificially lowering their prices and killing american jobs. we cannot let china run all over us. >> barack obama returned to the white house having promised to hold china to account for its trading practices. what is he going to do about it now? those who have been inside the white house suggest it will be gentle diplomacy. >> there is a gap between political campaigning and governing. i think that some of the tough rhetoric you heard will not translate into policy. presidents do have an ability to use various tools to shape policy towards china and other countries. >> of course, it is not about trade. there are human rights and

security concerns and the worries flag up by this campaign commercial. >> see our economy is getting very weak. >> china is buying up american dead but it can be used as a source of pressure. u.s. diplomats insist that they still do defend their national interest. >> currency valuations have been a current team during the campaign. -- have been a recurring theme during the campaign. the u.s. has been trying to get china to begin the process of balancing its currency versus the dollar in a fair manner. are we where we want to be yet, no? >> the arrogant and unsupportable pretensions of china that she will hold commercial intercourse not upon terms of people reciprocity but on be relationship between lord and vassal, so lamented john

quincy adams. that was back in 1841. that is how long americans have been complaining about the terms of trade with china. these days, the public is much more engaged with the issues and gunboat diplomacy being out of the question, the president has to take the u.s. case to international bodies like the world trade organization. richard nixon to find the modern u.s. relationship as a time when it was still largely important to the economy. that might have changed, the perception of the militia is too important to fail remains. -- of the relationship as too important to failed remains. >> you had the president of an up the relationship in 1972. every president, democrat or publican sense has continued to advance the relationship between the u.s. and china.

we have never gone backward, we have gone forward. >> so, what to expect? a careful handling of the delicate relationship for sure. don't be surprised by 2016, america is even more indebted to china, a significant trade issues are unresolved and the political ads are still running. >> earlier in the week, i spoke to a nobel peace prize winner and the national security adviser and former secretary of state, henry kissinger, about china and the u.s.'s relationship. i understand the you have met xi jinping. what did you meet -- you make of him? we have heard that he is a man that would like to make sure that there is a seamless transition. >> my impression was that he

was a thoughtful, perhaps a more assertive personality than his immediate predecessor, hu jintao. he is shaped by a different set of experiences which was experienced during the cultural revolution. that plays an important role. he is very cognizant of the fact that he is stepping into a position at a time of enormous challenge for china. and, to some extent, the world. >> what do you think domestically is his biggest issue? >> his press center pointed out that at the end of 10 years,

corruption is a key issue and an extension of their definition of democracy which has a different content in the chinese context as in the american or british one. nevertheless, it involves a broadening of debates in some manner. >> both barack obama and mitt romney had quite an aggressive stance towards china in the run- up to the election. the feeling in china is that actually barack obama might be able to be pushed around a little bit. what to do you make of that? >> well, during the election, i called the arguments being made about china on both sides rather

deplorable because they are conducted in terms of an immediate american situations, which are not always fully relevant to china. i think that both obama and xi jinping will now have to ask themselves, howell will they expect the relationship between the two countries to evolves? where are they going to be at the end of five war 10 years. and to what extent that relationship can be cooperative and to what extent it will be adversarial. both countries impinge on each other in significant ways. both leaders and certainly the leaders i now on both sides

know that a military conflict between them would have an outcome comparable to world war i in which there are no winners. while each side undergoes its domestic challenges, whether they can find the broader framework for the chinese- american relationship. that cannot be determined primarily in terms of the tactical disputes of the last few years. >> i was going to ask you briefly on what he said it today. >> the question is can he be pushed around easily? i don't think that is in the light of his conduct this year,

that is not a prospect. that is not a theory on which anyone should act. >> i want to ask you briefly, hu jintao talked about waging local territorial battles. we had just been talking about the pacific and about moving american capability into the area. do you think that china will push its a lot locally? >> i support the military deployment of the pacific but i do not believe that one should base relationship between china and the u.s. primarily or largely on the experience of the cold war, of the military conference to patients. the experience of china has seen threats from neighboring countries. so, it is an understandable

expression that hu jintao used today. but, if the relationship were to degenerate into the management of local military situations, the future of their relationship would be very dire and both sides have an obligation to do their utmost to get the relationship on the basis of a dialogue and a dialogue about the future and not of the immediate issues that lead to these conflicts. >> remember myspace fell to a new fancy called facebook. and the world of social media, the newest sensation is tumblr. paul mason went to meet the

founder the 26-year-old david karp. >> facebook is how you want others to see you come up twitter is how you see yourself, and tumblr is -- oh, look, a funny cat picture. the 26-year old is the owner of the hottest property of the net. >> i tried to use all the things that were around six or seven years ago and i started thinking about tumblr. i wanted something that a alamitos press myself in a way that i was proud of. -- i wanted a way to express myself and the way that i was proud of. >> you can use video, pictures, and other stuff to express yourself. this has given rise to something

called tier rating. >> this is the notion that even if you're not the guy that gets in front of the camera and plays guitar, you can still express a point of view, you can express the stuff you care about, be creative. >> when you find the users that will stuff together and that expresses them. >> they do all of it. we have a core of a community of craters. they are getting a fun of the camera, taking the photos. are around them, you have this big web with tens of thousands of curators that are slicing and dicing them into these little channels. then, there is is big audience of 150 million people. >> 150 million is puny compared to facebook. but, tumblr has become a home to niche communities.

you don't think there is an element of narcissism here? >> i don't think so. the interest is to just have something out there for the people who care. it could be a delightful surprise when you bump into a stranger who cares about the same stuff that you do. this is a whole new opportunity for humans to socialize. >> the breakthrough moment came when occupy wall street used it to tell the story of the nine &. -- tell the story of the 99%. david karp is one of the few capitalist whose eyes light up about this. >> it was organized through communications going on twitter. we are going to be here now. that type -- the reach that you can build out of a network like

tumblr and the to indication that is able to go down and in that or like twitter is incredible. that is something that has ever existed. in the other hand, there is just the media. it is easier than ever for you and me, people who might not have been the ones going in there, it is easier than ever for you and me to make something that is really compelling, really tells the story and removes people. >> there is a dark side to tumblr. not just pornography, but also references to eating disorders, suicide. they do not make a profit of about the content. >> we have all of this attention, all of the great work these craters are making attracting an audience of 150 million people. we are selling a little bit of that attention to marketers. >> will it succeed? nobody knows. where will the social media go

next? nobody knows that either. that is the point. >> that is all for this week. from all of us, goodbye. >> makes sense of international news at bbc.com/news. >> funding for this presentation is made possible by -- the freeman foundation of new york, stowe, vermont, and honolulu, newman's own foundation, and union bank. >> at union bank, our

relationship managers use their expertise to guide you through international commerce. we put our extended global network to work for a wide range of companies, from small businesses to major corporations. what can we do for you? >> bbc