part two of the examination of the state of black america on this edition of "our world with black enterprise" is up next. >> having a black president does not necessarily mean a black agenda is in power because barack obama must be president of the entire nation. ♪ our world our world ♪ >> hello, everyone. i'm ed gordon. the national urban league's release of the state of black

america 2009 message to the president takes on some of the central issues that directly affect the black community. national urban league's ceo believes in obama's idea of hope and change but knows that the fate of black america does not solely rest on the president's shoulders. he believes much of the change needed must come from the black community itself. joining us today to weigh in on the state of black america are stanley crouch, columnist, new york "daily news," errol lewis, wwrl new york morning radio host and new york "daily news" columnist, and manning merrill, professor of african-american studies at columbia university. i welcome you all, gentlemen. thanks very much. i want to pick up on what mark muriel told us as he took a look at what he saw as the state of black america. >> what we've seen is that progress has stagnated, that the gap between black americans and white americans is not necessarily narrowing. now, that's paradoxical because

you can't miss the fact that what's occurred in the last 15 to 20 years has been the emergence of a black middle class. but too many are left behind. too many are stuck at the bottom below the poverty rate. >> stanley, what's interesting to me there is the idea of this paradox as mark shaped it with all of the games, the gap really has not narrowed in the way that certainly african-americans would want to see. and you sent me today an interesting poll from the cbs news/"new york times" which suggested that over half of those blacks surveyed still saw the idea of blacks not being on an even playing field in terms of getting ahead socially here in this country. so, with all of what we've seen, what do we read from these numbers? >> well, i think that what is happening is that we're coming to understand a couple of things.

one is that what people actually need is a parallel level of engagement and preparation that meets them in the position where they're better able to compete. the thing is that most -- for most of modern black american life, you always are trying to find out how to prepare the people to get in the competition, because the first part is just you can't compete at all, and so once you get -- once you get that removed, the possibility of competing, then the problem becomes are you well prepared enough to compete. >> i remember an old makeup artist of mine saying she was upset about something that she was saying to me, manning, it's unfair to follow the rules because i've seen too often when i follow them, they change the rules in the middle of the game.

so, i say to you, when we look at these numbers, when we look at the growth of the black middle class but then we don't see this -- this disparity close for all, is there, even with the euphoria of the election of bloeb, a malaise that may set in to black america that we'll say even with all of this we're not moving enough of us forward? >> i would characterize the socioeconomic dilemma confronting black people slightly differently, that it's not simply a middle class and those losing ground, rath tler's a kind of a three-way split. there's a black middle class, especially when both partners or the couple have both attended college, that has done remarkably well over the last quarter century. there's a black working class that is losing ground in many ways. and then there -- i hate this

term "underclass," but there is a permanent poor of perhaps 25%, 30%, within the black community that's experiencing social and economic devastation, especially in this downturn. so, to a certain extent, bill wilson's prediction of a quarter century ago of the -- of the declining significance of race has actually come true, that increasingly class, not race, trumps the life chances, especially for the black poor. the question is how do we handle that. in the paradox, ironically, if having a black president does not necessarily mean a black agenda is in power, because barack obama must be president of the entire nation. >> and there is a sense for him to remain as best he can race neutral. errol, what of the idea of what manning talked about, this genuine black middle class that we've seen now over two decades but the slippage of the economy

affects that middle class even more than any other, and so now that tenuous base that much of black america stood on -- >> sure. >> -- is no longer on that foundation? >> that's exactly right. think about the two twin pilars of the successful black middle class, the civil service -- state, local, and government jobs going away as governments downsize and slash their budget -- and more importantly, home ownership. that was what triggered the global crisis. and for so many, this is how you made sure you made it into the middle class and that was how you stayed. it wasn't just a marker along the way. it's not a status item. ownership of a home was being critical to being in a stable family situation, a decent school district, having roots and only faces that can't be lightly broken. and when all of that goes away in one fell swoop, and you see some black neighborhoods in new york and elsewhere, where entire blocks are vacant, they've got

for sale signs up, foreclosure signs up, that is slippage that will take decades to get back. >> if, in fact, that's the case, if you think about education is the first rung of the evil that we've seen devastate black america, as health care 1a, when we talk about the turnaround, that, too, will take decades to turn around, say, nationalizing either one of those, which we will not see in this country. so, what do you do for those ho who, again, are claiming by their fingernails to make it? >> well, i think that one thing is it has to be recognized that people are in a long-term struggle to achieve a certain position in american life. now, black americans used to know that, that is that, okay, you get a job -- you can get a job in the post office. that's okay. that doesn't mean that heaven is around the corner.

that means that that's just the step you're presently on to continue to go up. now, based on a set of factors that we have not traditionally looked at that really affect what happens to black people -- what neighborhood you're in, whether you own a home, whether you're -- whether you're a city or a government worker, whether you've gone to a good school, whether you're from a stable family or a family that has learned how to stabilize itself. all of these things are ultimately important, and i think that we're now beginning to see in greater detail what needs to be done. >> let me do this. let me take a break, because i want to pick up on that exact point wb the african-american community, because there is a huge battle in terms of stabilizing and not being allowed to stabilize based on those who live around you. we'll talk about that when we come back right after this. >> there's a very great possibility of specific

logistical change because barack obama has a grand vision. [ our world our world ♪ ♪

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back continuing on this discussion on state of black america, errol, i want you to pick up, and manning, follow up on what stanley said, because the suggestion of really being able to stabilize yourself, there is an internal battle, quite frankly, within the african-american community, as to whether or not living amongst ourselves if, in fact, the class structure is not the same, allows you to stabilize. i have a friend in chicago who lives in an area of revitalization, yet those who have moved in and have attempted to revitalize are disappointed because they're burglarized, the crime rate is on up, and these are not the man but your cousins, your brother, pookie, et cetera. so, that fight that hz rae mained, quite frankly, quiet within the black community has to be addressed, and how? >> well, i tell you what, the traditional method, which i think is what you can expect, is that lots and lots of people, regardless of their family afill yigs yas, their political preferences, they'd like to stay

and be part of a community, that community is destabilized, has problems with drugs and poor education, folks will pick up and join the great exodus to get to the suburbs. they'll join the many, many nonblack families who are out there driving up those real estate values. i mean, before this bubble, the top blew off this bubble, the reality is there was a solid reason for some of these property values to go up, and it was because everybody was trying to get into the few good school districts that ring most cities out in the suburbs. and until we see some kind of fundamental change in all of that, and there's a lot of that in what obama is talking about, making it so you don't have to move so, you can stay, you'll have decent schools, the possibility of jobs right where you are in the city, in the black community. a division he has -- >> is that in the immediate term, manning, a pollyanna? >> i think that the great challenge and the great difficulty really is around the issue of net wealth, that the

typical african-american household has about $12,000 of net wealth. the average white household, something light -- 115,000. it's a 10 to 1 ratio. i think that the two key indices that will help to determine the future of black america are wealth and health, that one of the things that the obama administration wants to tackle is a national health care system. if we can eliminate racialized deficits in terms of health care outcomes, everything from asthma to cancer to diabetes, we'll go a long way toward reducing the gap between black and white. we have to answer the wealth question, too. and that's far trickier. >> stanley, you've been at this even longer than i have, yet i've heard many of these same issues bandied about for now truly decades. is there hope that this will be different now? >> well, i think that the --

there's a very great possibility of specific logistical change because barack obama has a grand vision in which black america is seen as part of america at large. see, the fundamental problem that we have in this world economy is that no one seems to think about america being able to compete right. with black people involved, it's part of the army of people competing. so, all of these people, all of these black people who are ignored, right, as though their only role in america -- the american economy is to be a burden on it are not looked at as part of what we need to compete. >> so, will the obama image be enough to counteract that there will be those who will say that obama is the anomaly, that the

same is the same, that we're still having this community that drags us as a burden, and that's not going to change, coupled with the idea that, let's be honest, this president will remain as best he can race neutral just politically? >> politically, absolutely. look, the symbolism is important, and around the margins, who knows what he might inspire young people to do. that's important. we don't take that away from him. on the other hand, i think the specific pieces of legislation, the employee free choice act in particular is probably the most important piece of domestic legislation in the last 30 years if it should get passed as far as providing workplace protection, allowing many, many more people to get unionized, that, too, being one of the key vehicles that brings people into middle class, whether it's private or public sector. belonging you to a union will get you better wages, get you retirement benefits, get you health care, it will get you going. and if he can get that passed, then there will be an avenue, i think, for the black middle class. and they can thank him in a

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♪ our world our world ♪ i truly believe that there's an opportunity for the next decade to be a decade of great progress. and i think we, as a generation, have to judge ourselves by whether it is a decade of great progress. the election of the president, the fact that we stand on the shoulders of so many giants means that this next decade should be a decade of lower unemployment, greater home ownership, more success for african-american businesses, a decline in the violence in our community, a renewal of a sense of family in our community. and i can name many thing. i'm optimistic, but we've got to

get through the immediate recession before we can truly tell. >> the ceo of national urban league. stanley, i want you to address mark's suggestion there, a decade of great progress. but he also was quick to say if we don't see immediate change to start that movement, we may have some issues. and one has to believe if we believe the experts about the economy, we're not going to see the immediate change that's needed dollarwise to move some of these programs in. so, what does that say for his great decade? >> well, the first thing i think is that barack obama is doing something very remarkable in that he's actually getting americans to grow up, that is to realize how long it takes to lose something. you can't have a deregulation problem that it took three, four presidential terms to get into the position that it presently is and then expect, oh, get it cleared up in six months.

so, i think that that's very important. and secondarily, i think the fact that he has a vision of long-range planning, which has components that have to be done, have to be brought off, i think that mr. obama is making it clearer for people to see that it's easier -- make it easier for people to understand that the nature of the struggle that they have. >> ever the pessimist here, while that is true, there are a boatload of people who can't survive a long-term vision. how do you make it at least palatable for them to believe in the dream? >> well, that is the question. you know, right after -- starting with the night that he won, as a matter of fact, obama began tamping down expectations. in speech after speech, he began talking about how it's going to be a long road. as stanley says, it's a level of maturity, you know, where he's telling people to put their expectations in line with how long it will actually take to

transform the economy, to get their jobs back, to help them get their homes back. so, look, i think this is a time for everybody to try and focus on their households, their situation. i mean, i talk to any number of economists who have said this, that households need a bank bailout. people and their family, they need help economically. they need it right now. the government has, you know, come up with a set of plans, but we're in for some tough times. we're in for some tough times, no question about it. >> i think that the short run there is going to be a turnaround in the economy, at least with this major recession probably by the end of 2010. but i think that the larger question is whether black america in this period of post civil rights color blind racism will have the ability to make demands on the government to address real human needs and the

unique challenges that still confront african-american people that white people for the most part aren't challenged by. >> and we talked about that a couple of weeks ago on our look at the president's hundred days in office, the idea that you can't give quid pro quo away by virtue of giving him the ability to do what he has to do. politics is politics, and if you usher someone in office, you should enjoy the spoils. gentlemen, thanks so much. always good to see you. take a break. when we return, we'll say good-bye. ♪ our world ( light conversation ) how come they separate the hash browns from the rest of the platter? maybe there's just not enough room. or, maybe the hash browns were a little late and no one saved them a seat. maybe if the platter got a text message... from the hash browns saying they were on their way. or, maybe if the p-- pull up a chair to a mcdonald's breakfast platter: fluffy hotcakes, freshly cooked eggs and sausage off the griddle. with a warm biscuit and hash browns,

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♪ our world gentlemen, thank you as always. greatly appreciated. that does it for this edition of "our world with black enterprise." please give us your feedback on the show at ourworld.blackenterprise.com. until next time, i'm ed gordon. and thanks for making our world your world. ♪ our world female announcer: from jennifer, while supplies last, this luxurious microfiber sofa and chair, just $399. our most dramatic offer ever: both pieces, $399, from jennifer. i give patients act restoring mouthwash. act kills germs, restores minerals strengthens enamel. act restoring-- for strong teeth act now.