enerosity of the american people, people just like you. to find out more about how you can help visit our website at uso dot org. the uso until every one comes home. captions made possible by the u.s. department of education and central city productions, inc. on this edition of "our world with black enterprise," chris rock and neil long talk about the new documentary "good hair." >> you thought you were black, so you went to the hair show. >> it's so true. >> it's like, i know nothing about black people. >> this is a portion of a 7,000-pound box of relaxer. >> this will last us about a month. >> reporter: and then our

roundtable digs deeper into this issue. all that, up next. ♪ our world black hair has been one of those taboo subjects until now. >> what's your definition of good hair? >> somebody that looks relaxed and nice. >> if your hair is relaxed -- white people are relaxed. if your hair is nappy, they're not happy. >> reporter: chris rock brought the once hush-hush topic to light with his new movie "good hair." rock goes into the complex world of good hair like nobody's business. i recently sat down with rocket actress neil long, who's one of the subjects in the documentary. >> black hair! would you like to buy some black hair? chris rock's "good hair" is in theaters now. one of the things that i know

you had to think about was kind of breaking the taboo and introducing this to all of america. did you think about that at all? >> i never thought of it as a taboo. black hair products are in any cvs, rite aid, walgreens, walmart, whatever. you can walk right by them. they're looking right at you. >> but talking about the kitchen, in mixed company is not what you do at cvs. >> they're right there. any black beauty parlor has a glass -- it's not a big wall, it's glass. you can walk by, look in. any white person can look in. nobody just bothered to look in. just yesterday my daughters came into the house and said, "daddy, how come i don't have good hair?" >> what surprised you most? i know the impetus was your daughter -- all of us who have daughters have had that same conversation when, you know, their hair is up at 4:00 in the afternoon after school and everybody else's hair is laying flat. so, that was the impetus. what did you say to them before you started the movie to make

them feel better? >> you, a, she didn't feel bad. she just said it. and kids say things, and it's my job to not react. you know, sometimes you have to play it. you have to go, okay, does she know what she just said? no, okay, let's just talk about something else. when my daughter said it that time, i just moved the conversation to something else, because it was just something she had heard. it wasn't -- she wasn't that hurt and we moved on. now, if it came back and back, then yeah, i would have had to have had a real talk with her, but it just kind of flew by, but it was enough to spark something in me. >> did you have that when you were younger as a child? >> i did, because my mom raised me -- she was a hippie. she still is a hippie, so, i had the big afro, i had the corn rolls, i had, you know, what every other little black girl had growing up in the '70s, you know? and now there's this pressure where these girls are getting their hair straightened and

permed and weaved at very young ages because the moms are younger. so, they're not really giving the children -- the child a choice to say, you know what, i like my hair natural. the attitudes are being passed down, and that's the thing that i think we have to look at and be concerned with. like, are we able to really love who we are in our most natural, vulnerable state? are we trying to change our looks because we're denying our culture or is it just a trend? >> there were a lot of blacks who initially straightened their hair because they felt like, i want to be more white, i want to fit in, i want to -- but now it's an essential -- >> i don't even know if it's more white, because -- >> it's -- >> when you think about it, it's so ridiculous when you think -- like, like a guy like james brown had straight hair. did he look white? >> did he want to be white? not at all. like, his whole thing is who he is. >> you know what i mean? it might have started that way, but -- >> it did start that way. let's be honest.

in the '50s, in the '40s, when you started to straighten your hair, we were in a different place as a people, so there was this sense of acceptance. >> right. so, historically, you know, because that was before the '70s black power movement. so, yes, we were coming off of, you know, slavery. there was a lot of, you know -- >> but let's just say this, yes, it happened. it never works. >> it never -- >> not one person -- >> you're still black. >> not one person was accepted because they had straight hair. let's just say that. >> it's true. >> the door never swung open. whoa, look at that hair! come in, marry my white daughter! >> but these are the things that we -- >> man! how much does this cost? >> that's $1,000. >> this is $1,000? >> yes, it is. yes, it is. you come in -- it's a maintenance. you've got to come in every two weeks or once a week for washing and conditioning. >> you hit on the fact that there are everyday women who are spending $3,000 on a hairpiece.

>> $1,000. >> did that strike you? >> yeah, it did strike me, and we actually had to cut a lot of that stuff down, because it was kind of depressing. it was like -- it felt like it was all really piling on. >> the layaway plan was unbelievable to me. >> yeah, yeah. >> that was kind of scary, that you actually are thinking about it that much or making payments. >> yeah. it has an actual impact on african-american relationships between men and women, because, this cost, it's like, you know -- >> it's a habit, too. >> it's a habit. it's like dating an addict, almost. like, it's a real -- >> thing. >> -- cost. >> it's like a child. >> it is literally like child support. >> it is child support. >> let me ask you, in relation to going to india, which, that's the one thing that just knocked me out. talk to me about how you felt when you first saw it? it must have been a little -- >> to see people that spiritual and not so vain, you know what i

mean? just like, yeah, i'm going to be bald-headed right now. >> and hair is nothing. >> it's cool. it's cool. and hair's nothing. >> but you know, that says a lot about the american culture as well, because we really focus a lot more on vanity, and when you go to these poorer countries, they have to have, you know, a sense of self and a sense of spiritual connection to something bigger than them because their living conditions are so poor. so, you know, when i saw this hair traveling in the suitcase and coming to my local beauty salon, i felt little guilty. i was like, oh, my goodness. >> let's go to the hair show, which was another interesting peek at black america. and unlike the totality of the issue, there are a lot of black folk who have never been to a hair show like that, and that's got to be eye-opening, because i stumbled onto one in atlanta, and i was shocked. >> it's another world. it's another world. you thought you were black until you went to the hair show. >> it's so true. >> it's like, i know nothing about black people.

i thought i was black all these years. >> chris tapped me, was like, "close your mouth," because i was just like this. because i had never seen it. it was my first time. >> there is a sense of a wink and a nod, if we're honest, that says, there's some french stuff going on over here. >> well you know what, that's the great thing about our culture. it is colorful, it's exceptional. we can laugh at each other and with each other and it's okay. >> you say you don't want this to be a movie that -- or you don't expect it to stop the weaving, but what do you want the movie to be? often, you want it to be something. >> to entertain people. i would hope to enlighten them somehow. but i mean, i'm still a comedian, no matter what. my number one priority is to entertain and make this audience laugh. >> let me ask you, taking you back to the impetus of this and your daughters. they're young. they're not going to obviously get everything in this. but if they view it, when they view it later on, what do you want them to take from this? >> what would i want them to

take from it? well, the most important thing they can take from it is that daddy was thinking about them. >> aww, that's so sweet. >> that is the most important thing, that even, you know, i kiss them and i leave, but let them know that even when i left, i was still -- they were on my mind the whole time. >> that's awesome. >> that's what i want them to take from it. >> we'll be back right after this. >> i love when i see women with natural hair and i le when i see women who have weaves as long as they are confident and feel good about themselves, and that's the main goal. the chevy malibu and toyota camry received 5 star crash safety ratings. but only malibu has onstar. big deal. i'll just use my phone. let's say we crashed. whoops, you lost your phone and you're disoriented. i'm not disoriented. now you are. onstar automatic crash response can call to see if you're ok. onstar emergency. is everything ok howie? you don't answer, they can automatically send help to your exact location. i think i'll ride with you. the award-winning malibu. from chevy.

well-informed people are considering chevy malibu. you a cop? no. you didn't hear from me, but this malibu is a best buy. i heard that from consumers digest. it offers better highway mileage than a comparable camry or accord. estimated 33 highway. i saw that on the epa site. so how come the malibu costs so little. it's a chevy. you have cop hair. the award-winning chevy malibu. compare it to anyone and may the best car win.

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welcome back to "our world with black enterprise." chris rock's movie "good hair" has brought public the discussion that black folks have had for a mighty long time. in our "roundtable" discussion, we explore the notion of kinks and curls. i'm joined by monelinda william a familiar face, actress, who is also working with the take wings foundation, a foundation that works with underprivileged young women in the bay area. professor rooks, associate director of african-american studies at princeton university. she is also the author of "hair raising: beauty, culture and african-american women." and psychiatrist dr. janet taylor. i welcome you all, ladies. thank you very much. let me start with you. you wrote this book. talk to us about the idea and identity, particularly for black

women, of hair and themselves. >> one of the things that i explore in the book is that the way that, for african-american women, a lot of ideas about beauty and femininity are in our hair. the idea of cutting your hair, the idea of not having it be long and flowing led some black women to truly believe that they would disappoint the men in their lives, and it deeply impacted the ways that they saw themselves in the relationships with their bodies. >> yeah, doctor, it's interesting to me, because we have seen since, particularly over the last, i don't know -- put a number on it, 15, 20 years -- where the idea of wearing your hair in a more natural state has been adopted much better in our community than it was before. yet, we have also seen the invasion of the weave, the wig, the extension, the whatever else you put in there. >> long hair. >> so talk to me about that duel dynamic that seems to be going on. >> you know, i think there is an idea of what ideal beauty is, and somehow for some people, they still can't get away from

the long hair, straight hair, even if you have to buy it. but i think it goes back to our relationship with our mothers, it goes back to our relationship with society in general in terms of what we see as ideal beauty. and i think -- i love when i see women with natural hair and i love when i see women who have weaves, as long as they are confident and feel good about themselves, and that's the main goal, but -- >> and that is matching. >> exactly. >> matching. >> but the bottom line is, as women, and i think as black women, we still struggle with who we are and how we look the best, and that is what we really need to work on. >> you talk to me about the sense of image. you have a beautiful haircut. many people talk about your hair and the idea that, you know, often it's short and in a style that everybody likes. yet, i know hollywood will press and press and press for a certain look, even for black actresses. talk to me about the pressure you've seen with that. >> first of all, thank you for the compliment. it is a big thing for us in society. and everything in hollywood tends to be a magification of

what's going on in society. >> there is a sense also of the joking side that we all have -- clean your kitchen up. i mean, we all can go around with the jokes, but there is a lot of hurt that has gone on through the years. psychologically, what has it done to not just women, but our community in general, do you think? >> well, i think for black women, their hair is as strong an identifier as the color of their skin, and the condition of their hair and how people respond to us. so, if you think about if someone has, you know, nappy hair or their hair is straight, i mean, it really reflects on how they feel. and that can go -- i mean, i have four daughters. all of them are different complexion, different types of hair. and you know, as when they were younger, i used to have to bite my tongue in terms of not saying, oh, your hair is nice or this or that, because from a psychological perspective, i know how it affects us, and i think so many women and men, fathers with good intentions don't realize the impact they may have when they make a distinction between good hair and bad hair. >> so, who are women doing it

for? because i'll tell you the truth, if you have a fly haircut like melin melinda's, guys don't care anymore that it isn't flowing down to your butt. and often, we laugh and tease without you all in the room and know, well, they bought that. so, who are they doing it for? >> it's good to know that insight. >> steve harvey and i are going to give you the real deal. who are they doing it for then? >> i think unfortunately, when you're a woman, you're conditioned to do it a certain way, and again, it begins with the mother and child. and you hate to put the responsibility on the mother, but with black daughters, we mothers have to recognize the messages we give. for example, an article in "the new york times" last week was about this movie and there was a 14-year-old girl who was getting a weave, and she was so proud because she was getting a weave, and her mother's like, yes, i was so happy. this is a real sign, her first sign of womanhood. and i thought, that is not a sign of womanhood. and if we reinforce those messages, when this young girl is an adult, she's going to feel like it has to be longer and flowing more. >> professor, how can we take what we see about the hair and

really extend it to confidence or, as this mother said, womanhood? what's the danger of us not really addressing the idea of, particularly in our community, beyond the hair, the whole idea of materialism, bling and the like? we've been talking about it for a long time, but how do we really get to the crux of that problem? >> i'm always struck by the fact that there are so few images of black women with natural hair, who are held up as icons, right? i mean, if you think of performers, models. every so often, there will be a model, maybe, with natural hair, every so often. not necessarily short hair, because halle berry kind of broke that open for us in some ways. but natural hair is still a kind of taboo in popular culture in terms of who you see as a working actress, who you see as a performer. >> let me ask you, with the movie sparking this discussion -- >> yes. >> -- and as i said at the outset, we've had this discussion privately for a long

time. what do you think has to be done? >> well, i think several things have to be done, and i'm certainly no expert, but i definitely feel like one of the very important things that needs to be done is starting with our young girls, and we have to be careful about the message that -- the messages that we send them. >> doctor. >> and i would say as parents, you know, we're role models, and as mothers, we can send those messages to our daughters in terms of beauty and certainly not leaving people out. and i think not forgetting about our sons in terms of what we hold up as beauty, and when we point out someone, oh, aren't they attractive or don't they look nice, to make that message to our sons, especially when we see someone that has such natural beauty, as everybody, including myself -- and this panel, because it's important we get away from the notion of celebrity and look at what people are doing in their day-to-day lives. >> ladies, hold that thought. we'll be right back. >> you know what? that sounds like a challenge, actually, and you know, as someone who is in the media, you know, i feel like i am doing my part to change the dynamic.

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back with more conversation about hair. melinda has already told me, this is a 12-hour conversation. so, the next 12 weeks, y'all tune in and watch us talk about hair. let me ask you this, though. >> yes. >> this is an interesting point that i honestly just thought of as i'm sitting here, and i'm wondering if black women will be able to do it. black men about 10, 12 years ago, decided after a while that

bald was all right, and they incorporated that and really made it into something for many black women sexy, they made it empow yard -- before it was isaac hayes and that's about it. >> right. >> yet, we change the dynamic. can black women change the dynamic? >> that's a really good question. can we change the dynamic? you know what? that sounds like a challenge, actually. and you know, as someone who is in the media, you know, i feel like i am doing my part to change the dynamic, you know? i tend not to wear weaves, not because i have anything against them, but because that's my personal preference. you know, this is my natural state, not in the sense that, you know, i don't perm my hair or color it or whatever i do to my hair, but this is how my hair grows. this is how it is. and, so, i think we can change the dynamic, but i think there's also going to be that thing where women still want to please their men. >> what do you think about it?

>> i don't know if we want to. in new york, my students very often, when i talk to people about hair very often, they're kind of looking at me like i'm crazy, because what do you mean about natural hair or different styles? people appear in 52,000 different ways in every borough every day. and that's true, but if you start going, even to d.c., which is real southern in some ways, or you know, further south or to the midwest, that acceptance is not really there. so, i don't know that black women as a sort of group have a big desire to change the conversation. >> doctor, you'll have the last word on the conversation. >> i think we can change the dynamic when you think about the black power movement and what the afro meant. and to your point, maybe it's not whether your hair is natural or straight or weaves. it's how your hair is and how you see yourself. and i think when we accept ourselves more, we will accept whoever -- weaves, straight hair, bald head, whatever. women are for supporting other women, and that's a dynamic that we can change.

>> certainly, it's been a conversation that has been talked about for a long time, and as melinda said, we just scratched the surface this go-around, but i thank you, ladies. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> we'll be back right after this.

oh! blue! time! time out. i touched it. i touched the ball before it went out, coach. come on, alex, the ref did not call that! you gotta be kidding me, alex! it's the championship game! talk to him, coach. i touched, it's their ball. don't foul them when they inbound. team on 'three.' one, two, three. nice going, alex. sorry coach. alex! good call. ladies, again, thank you so much for a great discussion about hair. i'm from detroit. i'm getting ready to cut mine,

do that temptation thing again. that's it for "our world with black enterprise." until next time, i'm ed gordon, and thank you for making "our world" your world. if you have any questions or comments about the show, don't forget to logon to blackenterprise.com. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com new capzasin quick relief gel. (announcer) starts working on contact and at the nerve level. to block pain for hours. new capzasin, takes the pain out of arthritis.