roundtable discussion on black america's haves and have notes and from performing on subway platforms to opening for patti labelle, these two brothers are our "slice of life." captions made possible by the u.s. department of education and central city productions, inc. as one of the founding members of the legendary group the ojs, eddie lavern is a giant in music and the patriarch of a soul legacy but the legacy was shattered by the recent of his son, soul man gerald lavert. eddie finished the book of love he and gerald started. i recently caught up with him in detroit to talk about how he's dealing with life after losing a

son and his legendary career. eddie lavert is our "headliner." eddie, i want to talk about i recently saw you guys on stage. >> yes. >> and i told you that night and i'm telling you again, now, this is, i've seen you all for years. this is the baddest show that i've ever seen. what is it that you all are doing that really -- that audience did not sit down from beginning to end. >> we finally got a chance to re-address who the ojs really are. you know, in the early '70s they called us the messengers so we got a chance to put in a lot of those songs like, give the people what they want. we got a chance to incorporate, people get ready by the impressions with love train. this is a great thing. ♪ people all over the world, join hands ♪ ♪ start a love train, love train ♪ >> and we're trying to appeal to our core. >> when you all started, did you

have any inkling that you could have gone on like this? this is remarkable. >> no, no. i didn't think or didn't realize or didn't even project that we would be around this long, you know, and to be around this long and still in the fray, as i put it, still being a valuable commodity, still being someone who can sell tickets and put people in the seats, now, the farthest thing from my imagination, but always i think when you give up quality, it's always going to, you know, that's what happens. longevity comes with quality. longevity comes with, when you give and you give, and you give, and you give. you're going to be around a long time, and if you take it seriously, and take the people that are coming to see you riously, and giving them quality, that's the key to longevity. >> do you want to sing until you

got your wheels falling off? do you ever envision the day when you talk about touring and you don't do it? when do we leave the ojs? >> i think we will always work, until it gets to that point, when they have to wheel me out there, then i won't do it anymore. i want to always be able to do it at a certain level, and coming out in a wheelchair and sitting on a stool is not part of that. but it's not my call. retirement is not an option. i'm not even -- that's not even in my head. now, as long as i can come out and stand, and still give them an assemblance of what they want, then i will be coming on stage. >> i remember talking with gerald and he said the relationship that you and walter had is so special because you both understand your role. >> look, with every team, it takes, you know, with a car, you

got to have the pistons, you got to have the motor. you got to have the wheels. you've got to have the chassis. you've got to have the axles. once you realize that it's all business, that it's not anything other than -- ego has nothing to do with it, you take your ego out of play, and remember the key thing here is to be successful. the key thing is to please the people. the key thing is, is to know who you are, and be satisfied that i'm adding my part. and i'm doing my part, and the car is rolling. >> eddie, i've said that i don't know that you would be as dynamic if you weren't next to walter, in the sense of it really allows you to take off. is that a fair statement? >> no. >> you know where i'm going though, right? >> right. it wouldn't work, ed. if we both did the same thing.

it's like when me and jerol do the father and son. it wouldn't work if i rolled on the floor and he rolled on the floor. it wouldn't work if someone wasn't laid back. i took the same formula that me and walt use. jerol shoots through the roof when we do the father and son. i'm the laid back guy that i'm just singing. i'm the setup man and he's the man that takes it to the next level. >> let me take you to something, no secret, this has been a rough year. the death of a child is no one can conceive upon anyone. it's nothing anyone can understand unless you go through it. >> i don't think you ever quite get through it. i have good days and i have bad days. some days it's just so unbelievable that he's not here.

you know, you know i wished i could maybe wake up and it was a dream you know what i'm saying? i would rather him to get seriously ill and i have to spend all the money, all the time, to get him hospitalized, to get the best doctors, to try to -- and i could have grew to the point that i might lose him, but for him to go to sleep one night, and don't wake up the next day was incredible. >> when you're in the car, can you listen when he comes on? ♪ >> it's weird. it's very surreal to me, because i was a big gerald lavert fan. i'm still a big gerald lavert

fan but it's very hard for me to listen to his music, because now i hear his music but there's no him, and that's an empty place. i miss him. i will always miss him. i love all my children, you know what i'm saying? and i, you know, i relish in being with them and being able to talk to them. i don't think i'll ever really heal from it, because you know, i just don't feel like it's fair that i'm still here. i'm 64. it should have been my time. this is the worst thing that could ever happen to me and n my whole life. >> were you angry, ed? >> never angry, but how can you, how can you -- how can you argue with the father? i'm never angry.

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in chief of "men's fitness" magazine. thank you for joining us. r we wap we want we wans specifically within the black community. it's interesting to note, we're alwap always talking about oppressinoppressing us, those we'p we're seeing this in numbers within the black community, interesting enough. >> it is interesting and complicated, the whole class issue across the country. what's happening is the middle class is shrinking, the numbers show, and there's a growing upper middle class and a growing lower middle class and this is affecting the african-american community, too, and the divide of upper middle class african americans and lower middle class, working class african americans. >> what's most interesting is that middle class is very tenuous. >> oh, absolutely. particularly the numbers that they talk about. you're talking about a $50,000 household income. i don't care where you live in the country, most people that are doing that are doing it on two incomes, and when you're doing that in a condition the way that our country is now, jobs are disappearing every day, so on any given day, we're all one or two paychecks away from not being in that middle class. part of what amazes me about this discussion is we have always had class tensions. >> yeah, like why is this new?

>> the community i grew up in, i'm sure some of us grew up in, had doctors and lawyers, as well as people who were not of that particular class, so there's always been a little bit of tension in our neighborhood, but now, because of the income, that people are talking about and because we're moving to the suburbs and because of the reunification of our neighborhoods. >> it's an interesting point but there does seem to be a stronger division today than ever before. >> well it, is. it's becoming a lot more noticeable. i can feel it in my neighborhood. i live in park brooklyn. it's a place where, decades ago, a lot of lower income blacks lived and now the upper middle class blacks are moving in, and there's kind of that divide and that tension. >> so david, how do we rectify the idea first there's always been this them and us thought in the black community, how do we meld the two and make it right? >> it's going to be very difficult to find a unified black community from here on, because of the diversity among

us, because of the diversity in how we live, where we live. even the issue of a middle class and upper middle class, there are tensions within those class groups because of the diversity within those classes. so i think that it's what we really like to romanticize, i think, as a community about unity, and i think that is just going to become more and more difficult as we become more diverse. >> david, just because something is hard doesn't mean we shouldn't make the effort. >> sure. >> if we go to a church in the black community, you will find all of that diversity represented. you will find people from middle class, lower class jobs, as well as upper class, and so they come together for one common good. there are issues that still bind us. look, we are all still affected by racism. we're all affected by, you know, health, education, all of those things that do bind us, so whether focusing on the things that divide us, we have to make every effort to focus on the things that bring us together. >> if we're going to focus on anything, rather than focus on

the divide within our community, the true divide comes when you juxtapose black middle class to white middle class. there is a huge gulf. >> that's where it is. i was reading an article and saying the black middle class in general makes $50,000 a year and i was thinking wow, the white probably make double that, you know. it's not the same, and no matter what class you are, when you walk into a room full of white people, they're going to look at you the same way. >> roy, you've written a lot about social issues over your years, as a journalist. what do you see most in terms of the changing attitude of the black middle class? >> well, i think the attitude change you see is in many ways a reflection of the materialism within our community. we talk about the divide. it is probably most stark because those on one end tend to exploit their success with cars and clothes. i mean, look, we've all been

seduced by the amenities and by the things that we can now afford, if we get fortunate enough and blessed enough to get to that position. but when you all of the sudden are driving into a neighborhood with that type of car, wearing your custom-made suits, flounting, you know, the successes that you've had, it tends to exaggerate something that, you know, is dividing us. >> maybe it's not flaunting. maybe these are things you worked hard for that you ought to be able to cherish and hold onto without others looking at you as flaunting it. >> i think that it is on some level, there is a discomfort with flaunting, i think that, used to be a real important staple in african-american culture, and i think that we are losing that. >> and i think it stems from attitude. it's not so much that you have the trappings, but that all of us want to be able to enjoy the spoils of whatever it is that we've been blessed and be able to afford but it's all about the attitudes, what do you do with it? if you're also giving back, if you're also within your

community. it depends on how you talk to people. i always teach my son, you know, everyone, whether it's the person that waits on us at the restaurant, the person who parks your car, search a human being. you treat everyone the same, so if we teach these values to our young people, to just have them treat everyone the same, it's not so much about what you wear or what you drive, it's who you are and that's what we need to emphasize. >> david as a close, talk to me about the manifestation of all of this. you weren't necessarily optimistic to mend the fence, if you will. >> one of the things we have 20 do is focus on the things that do unite us. one of them is police misconduct. two is racist language, which we can say a lot about that in the past couple of weeks in terms what have we've seen. i mean, i think we need to look at what unites us, the issues that unite us, and i think that will help us. i think we also have to get beyond some of the superficial things that divide us. sometimes you have to say so what if someone flaunts their wealth. i mean who cares about that, when there are other more important things that we really

need to address in our communities. >> i agree, that we kind of need to stop paying so much attention to who's rich, who has money, who is poor. you know, we all come from the same place. if you're black in america, we're all coming from the same place. >> easier to say, roy, if you have it than in you don't. >> absolutely. it's incumbent upon those who have to, a, work together to create opportunities for more of us who don't. if we have more internal cooperation, more businesses that come together, businesspeople that come together and create foundations and opportunities to help the rest of our communities, i think we'll go a long way towards fixing this problem. >> david dent, tia williams, and roy s. johnson, editor in chief of "men's fns" magazine, thank you all. appreciate it. when we return, nuttin 'but strings is taking the world by storm. that's our "slice of life." back in a minute.

pblend of the classics, sw sor soul and hip-hop. nuttip nuttin' bnuttin' b "slice of life." at first glance, this may look like a typical rap concert. ♪ one, two, three >> but look again. ♪ using instruments more associated with beethoven than biggie, this hip-hop violin duo nuttin' but strings is led by the innovative sounds of 21 and 22 years old siblings damian and tory escobar. >> i'm a freelance violinist so i'm hip-hop and classical. my brother, juilliard trained, it's a moving star story with dynamics. that's how we feel we create our music, dynamic, build up beginning middle to end and have a big finish. >> ironically, that's the same direction their career is headed and the title are their debut

album says it all "struggle from the subway to the charts." >> we used to sell candy on the train before we used to play violin on the train. >> they got the sound working in the subway, five years in the subway. they started out when they were 12 in the subway, kind of half of their lives. they've heard everything down there, you know, from the movement of the trains, you know, the rocking sound of the rhythm of the trains, the guys playing on keyboards down there, people singing, the guitars, all of the musicians that have come through. to me, collectively they embody that whole spirit every artist has ever come to new york city and wanted to make it. >> we brought a u-2 record, march madness, the song "thunder" and got about 5 million hits on it. >> le this is appeared on "the tonight show with jay low know" and opened for cha ka kahn and pattie lable. >> playing strings and hip-hop, everything they play they make

the strings come alive with beautiful music. >> opening up for that, for a woman of that magnitude, like she's a diva, a legend. >> a ledgered. >> tofs an honor to be in the same show with her last night. >> they've emerged from the underground, what's next? >> biographies based upon our lives, something really inspiring. it's mostly an inspirational book of where we were to where we're at now and since we're still here now the struggle isn't over. we enjoy what we do, enjoy making good music and positive music. [ female announcer ] new real fruit smoothies from mccafé are real fruit, as in strawberries, blackberries, blueberries, and bananas, which makes them really delicious. ♪ that's what we're made of. ♪

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woman: so here are the keys. congratulations! it's officially yours. i'm sure you'll have many happy years here. except for you. because you'll be gone three years from now. struck down by the same disease that got your father. so you won't be around for them. and sadly, it could have been detected early with a simple test. but you didn't have it. ok! who wan to check out the back yard? announcer: for a list of tests every man should have, go to ahrq.gov.

that does it for this edition of "our world with black enterprise." don't forget to logon to our website where you can send us your questions and comments about the show. ourworld@blackenterprise.com. i'm ed gordon. thanks for making "our world" your world. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com