tv 2020 ABC November 7, 2014 10:01pm-11:01pm EST
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tonight, on an all-new "20/20." family secrets. he became a legend for disappearing into the wild and dying there alone. you saw the movie, read the book. but now, what his sister says you haven't heard until tonight about his parents. why they say he left his family without a trace. and the letter his sister kept secret for 20 years. tonight, "20/20," right there with them, as they retrace his final steps to the abandoned bus he called home. >> what are your parents going
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to think? >> the wild truth. and, she was a baby abandoned in a phone booth. he's looking for his brother. she's looking for the baby she was forced to give away. now, meet their last, best hope to find their families. this woman. "20/20," with her every step of the way. the door knocks. dna swabs, and false starts. the reunions, rejections, and results that are too much to bear. family secrets. >> sometimes people want those secrets to stay hidden. >> here now, david muir and elizabeth vargas. >> good evening. tonight, you're going to go on an extraordinary journey.
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have you ever wondered where you came from? three different faces, three very different outcomes. >> before the night is over, will you hold the final clue? you may be able to help. but we start with my trip to a phone booth where a woman was abandoned as a baby, just two days old. >> reporter: new york city, 1965. the beatles play shea stadium, a massive blackout turns out the lights, and that summer, on a street corner on the upper west side of manhattan in a grimy phone booth, somebody abandons a baby. it's a little girl, apparently born just a day or two before. there's no note, no one saw anything. the only clue dangles from the baby's blanket. a st. jude medal. the patron saint of desperate causes. >> so it's on this corner, 88th and columbus. >> there it is.
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>> this is the phone booth. >> reporter: 49 years later that desperate cause, the abandoned baby, is all grown up. her name is louise jones. what does it feel like being here? >> it feels more strange every time i come. >> reporter: a successful stock broker, and mother, satisfied with her life. but somehow that phone on the corner keeps calling her back. so what scenarios have you come up with about what might have happened? >> i think she was really young and really scared. and there was shame involved somehow. and there still is some shame involved. she hasn't come out to look for me at this point. >> reporter: and so louise is now looking for her. she has questions. >> where have you been? >> why didn't you look for me? >> what could it have been that was so awful that made you do that? >> reporter: like louise jones, john keller was also abandoned as a baby. the 56-year-old family man works for a motorcycle dealership.
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he's always been grateful for his adoptive parents. but as a young man, he began wondering where he came from. so how old were you when you found out that your biological mom abandoned you when you were not quite two months old? >> i was in my twenties. and i had written a letter to the adoption agency. >> reporter: the adoption agency revealed a disturbing past. in 1958, his birth parents lived in a basement apartment in the bronx, new york. when he was just six weeks old, john's father left his mother, and then, john's mother left him. >> walked across the street, and called the police. >> reporter: in that basement apartment, next to the infant, clean clothes, baby formula, and a note from johns mother. it says "i found this hard to do, but i am desperate." was there a time when you were angry? >> i was very angry for a long time. >> reporter: there was another thunderbolt in that adoption agency letter. john wasn't the only one abandoned.
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he was shocked to find out when police found him in that apartment, there was another child there, a little 14-month-old boy. that's how john discovered at age 24, he had a brother. what did you think? you opened this letter and, holy cow. >> exactly. it was, holy cow. it was like, i couldn't believe what i was reading. >> reporter: so you never saw your brother again? >> i've never seen my brother. ever. >> reporter: authorities separated the brothers, who were then adopted by different families. finding his missing brother becomes an obsession for john, he didn't even know his name until he made a trip to the new york public library. john searches old newspaper archives. suddenly there in black and white, the story of "two infants abandoned" complete with the names of john's mother and father, and brother. your own life buried deep in the archives of this library.
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>> to this day, when i read that article, i get the chills. >> reporter: john imagines that on that traumatic day, his big brother was somehow taking care of him. >> to me, he's the hero. >> reporter: why? >> when mommy was gone, he was there. >> reporter: john longs to find his brother, to see his face, to know his name. there are questions he's been waiting 56 years to ask. and what is it you wonder most? >> i just want to know who my brother is. >> reporter: then there's candy wagner, searching from the other side of the divide. a 62-year-old retired physical therapist, hoping to find healing. for nearly 20 years, she has been searching for a baby she was forced to give up in 1967. at 14, with an absent father and difficult mother, candy was dating a boy three years older. your first boyfriend? >> my first for everything.
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there was no question that i was in very deep young love. >> reporter: when this picture was taken, they didn't know it, but life was about to change drastically for the two young sweethearts. candy was pregnant. >> at that time, in a small town where there's no place to hide, it is absolutely traumatic. >> reporter: when candy began to show, her mother placed her far away, in a salvation army home for unwed mothers in new york city. and she left you there? >> yes, she did. >> reporter: alone? >> correct. >> reporter: alone and on her own for months, candy waits for her baby to arrive. but it's a baby she knows she will not be allowed to keep. her mother was already planning to put the baby up for adoption. when candy and the other unwed mothers went into labor, an elevator took them through a back entrance into the adjoining hospital. so no one would see them.
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on april 17th, 1967, the baby arrived. it was a girl. candy asked for her. >> "may i see her? may i see her?" >> reporter: and they said? >> "no. no." >> reporter: and what did you do? >> i yelled. i screamed. >> reporter: and then did you get to see or touch her? >> i got to see her. and i asked to hold her. "please let me hold her." and they said, "no, that would not be a good idea." >> reporter: candy secretly named her baby cindy, but she never saw her again. back home, she was expected to resume her life as if nothing had happened. >> i begged to keep her. and i cried nightly. >> reporter: when did the crying stop? >> oh, off and on. it's lasted about 47 years. >> reporter: were you looking for her in crowds? >> all my life. all my life. >> reporter: you had noticed when you saw her when she was a baby that she had a little red mark on her cheek. >> she had a forceps burn.
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>> reporter: not realizing it was temporary, for years afterward, candy was on the lookout for a little girl with a scar. so would you find yourself looking at little girls in crowds and -- >> wondering if she had a mark on her cheek. >> reporter: the ordeal left a mark on candy too, although no one could see it. she graduated second in her class, went to college, got married, adopted a son of her own. but she never forgot about her secret conversations with her unborn child back in that home for unwed mothers. >> i could talk out loud to her. and i made promises. >> reporter: what did you promise? >> i promised i would find her. >> reporter: 47 years later, candy is so determined to keep that promise, she breaks a lifetime of silence to ask for help. she hires an unusual expert -- a professional people finder. pam slaton, the last resort for those desperate to find the missing branch of their family tree. can she find candy's baby?
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how about john's brother, or louise's mother? as our story continues, our cameras follow three very different journeys and capture three heart-wrenching conclusions, decades in the making. stay with us. the design of the ford escape is clearly intended to grab your eye. ♪ oh, and your foot. ain't that a kick? the ford escape with the foot-activated liftgate. ♪ go open up something interesting. go further. when a pro at any 2014 pga tour event sinks a hole-in-one, quicken loans could pay your mortgage for an entire year.
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>> reporter: three searchers, trying to find the missing pieces of their lives. louise, left in a new york city phone booth as a newborn baby. candy, a teenage mother who promised to find the baby she was forced to give up for adoption. and john, abandoned with a brother in a basement apartment when they were just babies. for half his life, john keller searched in vain for his missing brother, and then one day, several years ago, he happened to see a tv show about searchers just like him. >> my name is pam slaton, i'm a professional genealogist. >> and i had to be home, every week, when that show hit. >> reporter: because you knew that this was somebody who might be able to help you? >> this woman, this woman was real. >> reporter: john hired pam to look for his brother. >> this is my office. this is where it all happens.
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my stacks are kind of broken up by current, not feelin' it, driving me crazy. >> reporter: pam slaton is a one-woman department of missing persons. >> i put in the biological father's name. >> reporter: she calls herself an investigative genealogist. >> i find your case completely intriguing. >> reporter: pam knows firsthand not all searches end well. you yourself were adopted as a baby. >> i am. >> reporter: and you yourself went on a hunt to find out who you were. >> i did. >> reporter: but pam says her birth mother did not want to be found. she rejected pam, for the second time. years later, the memory still hits a nerve. >> wow. you know, it's been 20 years. i don't usually -- it just -- it was -- it changed my identity. it's really the only way i can explain it. >> reporter: pam not only survived that trauma, she wrote a book about unlocking family mysteries and discovered her calling -- helping other
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searchers like louise jones, searching for the mother who left her in a manhattan phone booth in 1965. >> how are you? >> good. >> i think the investigation was simple. nothing came back. >> reporter: she goes to the manhattan phone where she was left. looking for anyone that might know anything about an abandoned baby 49 years ago. asking for information. >> this is what i do for a living. >> reporter: what is it about
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her story that's so difficult? >> how are you? >> that's where it all started. and it's emotional. >> reporter: that missing brother is the focus of john's search. >> there's nothing, it's like he doesn't even exist. >> reporter: they ring bells and knock on doors looking for a neighbor who might remember the family. >> do you happen to know the people that live here? >> reporter: but if there are answers to john's questions, they are no longer to be found in the neighborhood where the mystery began. >> all right, so listen, i will be in touch with you okay? and then we'll talk about what happens next. >> reporter: john is
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disappointed, but pam, back home at her computer, gets a break. >> i found something really interesting that i want to show you. >> reporter: searching for john's biological father on ancestry.com, pam finds he was from west virginia. >> just on a hunch i put in the father's name and i put in west virginia. >> reporter: an old city directory from a small town in west virginia pops up, and there looking back at her from the dusty digital pages, john keller's biological parents -- both of them. >> we have dewey and helen. they lived in the rear of a home on main street in a little town called huntington, west virgina. we finally now have a starting point in this case. >> reporter: pam and john fly to west virginia. >> all right, ready? >> let's go. >> let's do this! >> good luck. >> hoorah, let's hit it. >> reporter: they drive around the town his parents once called home. they visit the post office. they stop at the office of vital records, hoping to get a look at
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the brother's birth certificate, but it's not there. they ask for directions to the house where his parents once lived. >> hello, got a question for you. we are trying to find an old address of 225 main street. >> i don't know, actually. >> reporter: but even the mail carrier can't help. like john's brother, the house seems to have disappeared. the west virginia road trip yields no direct evidence of his brother's whereabouts. >> it's part of the journey, and you have to pick yourself up and start over. >> reporter: pam doesn't take every case that comes her way. when candy wagner asked her to help find the daughter she'd given up for adoption nearly 50 years before, pam said no. >> it's funny. i didn't want her case. >> reporter: why not? >> initially, because upstate cases are known to be extremely difficult because -- >> reporter: why? >> new york laws for adoption are so strict. >> reporter: but pam's husband, driver and usually silent
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partner, mike, spoke up. >> he's, like, "oh, you know, she sounds so nice. just -- just take a look at it." okay, mike. go ahead. >> reporter: candy had been told that her baby would not have been adopted by anyone living near her small town. but pam didn't rule that out. >> and i came up with a list of everyone up in that region. >> reporter: every baby girl born on -- >> every baby girl -- in that region born on that day. >> reporter: when we come back, the hunt for candy's daughter leads to the unexpected. a confrontation with her past that may be too much to bear. stay with us.
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>> reporter: half a century after two baby brothers were abandoned in a bronx new york basement apartment building, after years of fruitless searching. at last, a breakthrough. the moment of truth for john keller comes when professional people finder pam slaton arrives unannounced at his house. so she surprises you with the news. >> and she pulls out a paper and she goes -- i think this is your brother. >> i have to be honest.
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this looks really good. this looks really, really good. >> reporter: pam discovered a mistake in the records. she and john had been searching for years using the wrong birth date for john's brother. it was one day off. now pam tells john a search with the correct date has turned up his brother. >> really? >> really. you okay? you're giving me goose bumps. >> yeah. i'm okay. >> i think it's time we called him. and get to the bottom of it. >> okay. >> my name is pam slaton. how are you? i'm calling you because i'm trying to find someone who was born on a particular day that might have been adopted. >> reporter: sure enough, john's long lost brother is on the line. >> i am legitimately sitting next to your biological brother
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who is your full-blooded brother. so i guess the question is, how do you feel about this? >> reporter: but the phone reunion takes a devastating turn. >> this is someone that has -- >> reporter: located after 32 years of searching john's newfound brother wants nothing to do with him. >> really? it went from, "yes, yes, yes, this is me." to, "you better not have my medical records." you better not, you know, have my social security number. i have no interest in your personal information. and i had to just take a step back and say, "wait a second, that's not what this is about at all." my client, he would be your younger brother. >> reporter: and what did he say to that? >> he just basically said, "i don't give a damn, and don't you ever call me again." and hung up the phone.
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>> okay. thank you. that unfortunately did not go well. >> click. >> reporter: that must hurt. >> that's the heartbreak. it's the abandonment again. and this is the one part of it i don't think i ever prepared for. >> reporter: if for some reason, your brother were watching this segment. what would you want him to hear from you, tonight? >> want him to know that i love him, unconditionally. i want him to be a part of my life. all he's gotta do is pick up the phone, call me. door's open. and i just pray someday that he does. >> reporter: maybe things will work out better for candy wagner, who has searched for one face in the crowd all her life. the daughter she was forced to give up for adoption. pam has stunning news. 47 years after candy's daughter
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disappeared from her life, pam thinks she may have found her. she spent 17 years looking for her daughter. it took you how long to find her? >> i think it was a day. >> reporter: a day? >> yeah. >> reporter: pam compared birth records with likely adoptive families in the county where candy lived. she found several possible matches. including this woman, barbara jo gowan. by the strangest coincidence, she and candy were practically neighbors, living in the same community in upstate new york. >> so, i focused in on barbara and i thought, "wow, her parents are the right age, she's an only child. let me take a look and see if i can find her on facebook." >> reporter: really? she was the first one that popped out at you? >> there were, like, four. but she was the one that her information really looked dead on to me. >> reporter: barbara was adopted, she was born on the right birth date, and at the right hospital. pam got in touch. >> to be quite honest, i thought it was somebody trying to sell me something.
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>> reporter: and now, a mother daughter moment 47 years in the making. the daughter candy has not seen since the day she was born. the daughter she was never even allowed to touch at the door. and about to be in her arms. >> there it is. >> hi, mom. >> oh, my gosh. so beautiful. look at you. >> don't cry. thank you for finding me. >> i just hope you could sense me out there. you've been in my heart every
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day of my life. >> reporter: what was the biggest question in your mind at that point? >> is she gonna like me? >> reporter: "is she gonna like me?" >> yeah. is she gonna be happy with what she sees? >> reporter: as they get to know each other, mother and daughter compare notes, and marvel at living practically next door. amazingly they discover, they'd even been in the same room three months before their reunion, when they had both attended this dance recital. barbara watching her daughter perform, candy watching her granddaughter. together, mother and daughter have one more memory to exorcise. they drive out to the hospital in queens, new york, where barbara was born. the staff warm and welcoming to candy this time. everything is going well until memories come flooding back. do you remember that? >> i do remember this hall. >> reporter: and then we come across that same ancient elevator. still there, the one that carried candy and the other
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unwed mothers in disgrace through the back door to deliver their babies. the painful ghosts of the past suddenly present. it's too much. candy collapses. >> okay. >> reporter: back on her feet again, shaken, the teenaged unwed mother who wasn't allowed to touch her own baby so long ago, now comforted in her daughters embrace. what does a mother look for? what do you want to feel? >> "are you okay?" and, were you cared for and loved, and she was. that was the closure i really needed, that her life was good. her parents were wonderful. >> reporter: a door to the past swings closed, and another door opens. which leaves only the perplexing unsolved case of louise jones. abandoned as a baby, left to fend for herself in a new york
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city phone booth. and 49 years later to the day, she's going back. you marked the occasion at the phone booth for a number of years by actually going to the phone booth and -- >> i did, yes. >> reporter: why did you do that? >> because i thought if this woman is anything like me, she may show up one of these years on that day at that time and we may meet that way. a romantic thought, you know, wouldn't this be nice if she showed up? i mean, that's a fairy tale. >> reporter: pam slaton is there. she does not have any news, she says at this point the best hope for louise may be you, or someone else watching tonight. >> we were hoping that in doing this piece, somebody out there would know something and call in.
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>> just have to hope and pray someone comes forward. >> reporter: meanwhile at the pay phone on the corner, it's a party. you got champagne? >> we do, we do. we are having a party. >> reporter: and a toast. the searcher celebrating what she's already found, a lucrative career in finance, and a family of her own. >> whoo! >> reporter: are you positive somebody knows something? >> there has to be. how do you hide something like that forever? the truth always comes out, somehow. >> reporter: as every birthday girl knows, when you blow out the candles you always get a wish. you can guess what louise wants, even if the most important things have already come true. >> next, the famous hiker who disappeared into the wild.
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who lived and died in an abandoned bus. you know the book and the movie, but his sister says you don't know the truth. what really spurred him "into the wild"? -mortgage. -debt. it's complicated. it's not easy. i'm not a good budgeter. unfortunately, i'm a spender. i would love to learn more about finances. so there's questions about the world that all of us have, especially about money and finance. the goal of khan academy and better money habits and the partnership we're doing with bank of america is to give people the tools they need to empower themselves. there are more reasons than ever why now is the best time to be on verizon. one: verizon's the largest, most reliable 4g lte network in the country. that's right america. with xlte in over 400 markets. two: and here's something for families to get excited about. our best pricing ever! get 2 lines with an incredible 10gb of data
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>> you start making your way. >> very special to take two of my sisters. i'm glad to go back with my sisters -- shelly and shawna. >> reporter: today, these three sisters are retracing the steps of their famous brother, a young hiker named chris mccandless. you three sisters ready? >> rock and roll. >> reporter: chris' two-year odyssey across the american west and into the wilderness here was immortalized in a book. and then, an award winning movie called "into the wild." >> is anyone here? guess not! >> reporter: it's the tale of a man -- played by emile hirsch, looking remarkably like chris -- bright, educated, compassionate and full of promise, who gave up creature comforts in search of adventure. >> i don't need money.
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makes people cautious. >> reporter: a modern-day daniel boone, james dean and huck finn all rolled into one. the sisters' journey will be by chopper. after 20 minutes or so, we finally spot it. a bus -- chris's final stop literally frozen in time. a shrine. it's breathtaking, so very empty. >> all you can hear is the river. haunted. who does this belong to? >> wow, i think this is chris' bible. >> reporter: 30 miles from the nearest town, deep in the alaskan wilderness. chris's goal was to survive here for a hundred days, living off only the land. on day 43 he shot a moose. when he recorded it in his daily journal, he was exuberant.
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>> you know he always said, you know, nature might be harsh in its honesty, but it never lies to you. >> reporter: but by day 100, he wrote "death looms." "too weak to walk out. have literally become trapped in the wild." he died here of starvation, unable to find enough food. he's been criticized for being selfish and unprepared. he was there without a map, without proper gear and without telling a soul. still, every spring young hikers make the two-day trek to the bus. >> it's something about being here brings out something deep within them. >> reporter: chris' voyage has inspired many. a young man who lived by his ideals and gave his life for it. >> live before you die. you know, how many of us actually do that? how many of us actually live? or do we just exist? >> reporter: but the sisters say
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there is something those who admonish and admire chris don't know. tonight, for the first time, they tell what they say is a vital part of the story. one that explains why he was here all alone. >> he wanted to really separate himself from a situation he felt was very toxic. >> reporter: it was something carine didn't want to talk about back in 1997 when "20/20" first interviewed her soon after her brother died. >> people try to focus a lot on what is was with chris and why he did what he did and they look for something that's going to be sensational. but of course it's nothing i'm going to get into. >> reporter: but now, in carine's new memoir "the wild truth," she says that chris' journey stemmed from dark family secrets. the traumatic childhood that she says she and chris shared. why did you write this book? >> frankly, i was asked every time i met with a group of people why chris left the way he did. i really watered down those answers for a long time and i really felt and learned that i was doing a disservice to chris
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and all those people because the greatest inspiration comes from truth. >> reporter: the truth -- carine says -- doesn't begin at the bus but rather at this house some 3,000 miles away in el segundo, california. chris was carine's adored older brother. >> he was my protector. he was always strong. he succeeded at everything he tried. >> reporter: the mccandlesses were a portrait of happiness. dad, walt, was a renowned rocket scientist who had worked for nasa. mom, billie, built a consulting business with him. carine fondly remembers family vacations and peaceful times spent outdoors. >> our parents actually got us out in nature. we did a lot of hiking and camping. >> reporter: chris was confident and charismastic. >> people were drawn to chris. >> reporter: the captain of the high school cross country team, an avid reader, a music lover. but family life for him was much more complicated than it appeared.
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his father had two families. >> both women were pregnant at the same time. i think a lot of women -- people don't realize that. >> reporter: your father really had kind of a double life. >> he did, but it's funny 'cause even as a little girl that was just what i knew. this was a man that was in and out of our house. he would spend four or five days or how many with us and then be gone for a while. and then he'd come back. chris and carinne grew up knowing their half-siblings, even going on vacations with them. but their family secret was something darker, something chris' sisters are talking about tonight. >> my earliest memories are just you would feel the charge in the air.
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i mean, it was always there but it would intensify. >> reporter: next, domestic strife brought to life in a movie. >> he just hauled off and punched him in the spine. >> reporter: and secrets between siblings. what drove chris out into the wild? letters chris wrote to carine before he left that she's kept hidden for over 20 years. >> i'll be through with them once and for all, forever. venetian cobblers, and footballers. dear world, we can't wait to meet you. chase sapphire preferred with no foreign transaction fees. and 2x points on travel and dining at restaurants. there's no reason not to explore. chase sapphire preferred. so you can. she can cook stuff super fast. super powers.
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the whole story is yet to be told. selly lived with chris and c carine. >> we were always called in to witness the violence. we would hear my mom say, kids, kids, come look at what your father is doing to me. and he would scream, look at what your mother is making me do. >> he would be choking her, and she would be screaming out for
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report has nothing to do with chris' life. this is about chris and his dreams. chris wrote carine letters. tonight, she's sharing them for the first time. but tonight, she's sharing them for the first time. >> i'm not releasing the letters to hurt my parents. i'm releasing parts of his letters for people to get a better understanding of chris. >> reporter: in a new documentary that will air on pbs this month carine reads a portion of them. >> once the time is right, with one abrupt, swift action i'm going to completely knock them out of my life. i'm going to divorce them as my parents, i'll be through with them once and for all. forever. >> reporter: and forever it would be. his parents tried to locate him, but he made himself impossible to locate. and four months into his journey, he was found in his
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bus, having starved to death. he had written this final note. >> when i learned of chris' death -- it's like telling me there wasn't going to be oxygen in the air tomorrow. it's just not possible. >> reporter: healing has been a long journey. none of the mccandless children are on speaking terms with their father. the mccandless sisters have found solace by retracing their brother's steps. for them, chris' magic bus is sacred ground. shawna and shelly have never been here. each sister taking her time -- hesitant to walk toward the bus. >> peaceful, like his own cul-de-sac. you wanna just walk around? >> i'm not ready to go in yet.
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i just need a moment. >> you know, it's not just chris, it's just a lot of things. >> reporter: although rust has spread and the windows are now cracked and broken, the bus is much like it was when chris was here. but now there are messages from pilgrims left on its walls. >> there's some new entries since i was here last. >> reporter: the mccandless sisters are eager to add their names to the hundreds of people who have come to the bus before them. >> my brother, i love you. >> infinitely, and unconditionally. >> reporter: this small bus and the vast alaskan wilderness -- the mccandless sisters take in every moment. you got a lot of heart here. >> i come to visit the space where he lived and died. >> reporter: but even this
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powerful moment doesn't feel complete. what are your parents going to think seeing you in front of this bus? >> i think they'll feel sad. >> you know, walt and billie deserve sympathy for losing their son, absolutely. and, you know -- i don't blame walt and billie for his death. but i do hold them accountable for his disappearance. >> reporter: chris was planning a life of full of adventure. his sisters are certain it was never his intention to die here. >> you know, you asked me yesterday, bob if i thought chris was a casualty of domestic violence. and that's just that -- i've never really thought about it that way. but i do think that he was. >> well, he didn't survive it. we all survived it.
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>> reporter: before leaving, the sisters do what so many pilgrims have done before them. they pose for a photo, like of course leaving a spot open for their beloved brother. >> thank you, bob. you can see much more of this let's do a reality check. kids will be kids. dogs will be dogs. so let's get some paint that's more than just paint. made to stand up to this... and look beautiful for years. let's loose the old marks, and messes. and stop new one's in their tracks.
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3-year-old victim of horrific crime and fireplace left owners in cold and gotta teption of crime and fireplace left owners in cold and gotta teption of "action news" troubleshooters, et it, get it ♪ ♪ when you're ready, come and get it ♪ ♪ na na na na ♪ na na na na na na na ♪ ♪ when you're ready, come and get it ♪ ♪ na na na na... female announcer: it's a great big world and it can all be yours. here and only here. ♪ come and get it. >> they held candles, points of light, to honor the all-too short life of scott mcmillan the little boy tortured and even
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