an's lone ascent up the >> a new report says cia was brutal, dishonest and ineffective in torture tactics cia says we saved lives. let's gets the inside story. god round. you can good morning and welcomo inside story. i'm tamala edwards. let's introduce you to the panel first up jim eisenhower ur. >> good morning. >> marketing dom giordano talk show host. >> good morning. >> in addition to the panel pedro ramos many flow src and local attorney. >> good morning happy to be here. >> good to have you and executive brian attorneyy good morning. >> good morning. >> let's jump into cia report. it kaimd out they looked at millions of documents contemporaneously coming out of cia. did not interview anyone.

all we got was executive summary. it's damning. it says tactics were brutal. people in stress positions for days. dozens of water boarding one another after a lot of humiliation and threats and people left to die. dishonest and they did not always tell truth to congress and white house and most of us ineffective they did these things often when they didn't need to which i thought was most troubling aspects of it all. what was your reaction of the report. >> my reaction is reaction pretty much of mr. brennan current cia director under president obama he thinks this report is fictitious at best and supportive of the tactics. those are been public statements. i talked with allen durshwitz he thinks we're not having honest conversation about this we shew debate these things whether they're needed at times or not. >> i would say two things, tam, first, why would anyone be surprised. we saw photos from abagra years

ago we saw torture and it was a scandal. number two the person best suited in government to talk about it i thought was john mccain who said not only unethical and immoral to do these things it's ineffective from his own personal experience if you are tortured you'll say anything and you give up things that are not true and have no ib intelligence value. that's exactly what the report found. >> very two different opinions paid roy where are you on this? >> one of the problems with this discussion we combine the discussion of whether it's morally right with effectiveness discussion. i think you know debate about its effectiveness begs question of whether we as a society and we as a nation are better than this. i think we are. when i think founders -- when we adopted 8th amendment and said cruel and unusual punishment was a bad thing i don't think it was

contemplated torture would be justifiable in these circumstances and that's the debate we shew have. if people believe it's justifiable what are the circumstances and let's have that debate. >> i think you have to go back to 3,000 americans being killed on 911 and look going against the group that literally for your faith, religion, anything would -- and are doing that. and it's unfortunate for finestein committee they didn't include republican staffers it feels partisan and didn't interview a single human being they looked at records. in a trial you wouldn't look at files you would say get testimony. not one person testified not one live record and i think that's because they knew the report they wanted to get out and now they say and it was not effective and one of the things they say is not effective is the one cure orwe had his name. police had thousands of names in philadelphia about who maybe had been arrested at some point.

if somebody gives you a tip and says it's john smith i saw him on that street with a gun. there's thousands of names cia was looking for then they knew this particular person and that's how they got obama bin laden. >> i want to pick up on what brian said why they didn't interview people seems federal probe gaz oing zone and they had to be careful with they could interview you people due to the report. you picked up on something obama bin laden everybody want todd get him and how to ket to the cure or. some thought it was these tactics and some said they got this information from people before they got tactics and when they got the tactics they were comatose giving up nothing. you wonder hoy to look at it how do we know. we think it's true i bet if we doe this you'll find out it's true or up eye infective the

fact -- >> doesn't it feel rushed finestein leaves chairmanship and rushes this out without surprise it sounds like she got report shed wanted to get. >> how could it be rushed when these things happened years ago. this torture occurred in bush administration mostly first term. it seems clear the president himself, president bush was not fully informed of these things. he has not come out and said o i rally was right? >> he has not thrown them aside. he said he supports them. >> he has not denied that he was deceived how can that be righting. these guys are professionals i they need ept take what a guy says over water boarding. >> 9/11 was hard. >> let's go with ladder stare step. first of all effectiveness. cia did its own report in the

'80s looking at torture tactics and they said then it's unreliable something i read today 2459 i thought was interesting when she trained american service people they noticed looking at them you fet people less reklibl and more stupid than hear telling you. this program was run by two men that had never done this they didn't toe what they were doing. >> the psychologist i'm agree these were not across the board effective. they say this and we act on it categorize it versus other information they had there's evidence of this. >> does it bormer you people if the room in these documents say it's so terrible some asked to get off only said i can't be part of it. >> we have to accept how brutal it is i believe water boarding is torture. i am not saying water board and it's not torture but i think we shew do it. >> john mccain was not on the

commits tie but from his personal experience has a strong moral voice. i just wish for something so important that there was something more comprehensive that involved live testimony and live interviews at least and not -- and it does feel like finestein wanted to get this this done. >> it's a note senator kerry had asked the report be delayed. and i thought that was telling. >> when you guys all narp politics in six weeks when mitch take over senate would this have seen the light of day did she interest to put it out or forever hold her peace. >> i think it's obvious yes she had to. >> curious on the same day mr. mr. grubeer was testifying and that was going to be big news and this blankets that and pushes that way aside. >> let's get to the questions that pedro was asking who are we? is it who we are? if you look at the timetable how they got these black open sites fist of all it seemed they could

not find anywhere else to go. could they go to military bases? no they can't. what could they do picking places like thailand and poland eventually when they got big name person and they said let's take it to eye latched and didn't have rules. if they wept to the pure" he would see the same rules in prisons here it was happenstance we got there. does that make us feel okay we would have well had a moral argument for not doing it if it was not happenstance to end up at block ops sites. >> i don't know about that. using analogy i did study in northern ireland with ira same kind of stuff torture and water boarden and all the rest of it techniques are not new and results were the same they were false information given. stuff that deposit get anywhere and it degraded british government. >> i would say moral argument thing i think it is moral moral

to protect americans what the president is doing with dronz is moral action too a lot of people think that's immoral and i think this is lesser nature than collateral damage than killing kids and others when we try to take them out. it gets back to partisan i'm consistent and support president owe a. >> what's the fall out you have cia hor net nest of aerping looking at capitol hill and cia operative saying are you going to support us and us taking will you come out ob our side i think where does this lead to everything. a lot of people that never had their testimony train now going to have foreign governments issuing warrants for their arrests and cannot travel out of the country, et cetera, that is up fortunate ram faixs that hate us and do us wrong and hole it up i think most americans are

opt emand they see reality of what wor fighting. and again i just think for something so important it shew have had a more bipartisan police officer to it. >> shew it have stayed secret that's underlying you this it have said something. >> i think in this day in taij doesn't stay secret it's impossible. >> let's move on to something else talked about a lot. we've seep a lot of protests this week from the eric garner case and michael brown case and we saw some here in philadelphia. justice department came out this week and said that they were go to change racial profiling rules for federal agents, fbi agents and national security agents can't look at race, gender, sexual orientation et cetera. is thad a good idea when it comes to national security looking at certain regions of the world to go ding, ding, ding, ding, is it good saying

they will not do ethnic protester and cases here within the u.s. >> i don't think so they're not doing it at the gourders either you drug the people or they're out of line and oath is comparable whatever we're talking about then you go after them. otherwise to have them stand down more i think is possibly threatening. >> was it just kind of pr move. this is not applying to localitys and state governments. that's where true fighting is on this issue. >> federal agents nobody seems to be saying it's federal cops giving me -- >> no it's local and state where issues are. >> it's symbolic and it's a good message to make sense as former prosecutors. just saying we'll look at someone because they're muslim or afghanistan weight of time you need toe be more focused and develop better intel squlens that the people i focus on. >> i think it's a bit of a

another when you say. >> and they're pulling an 80-year-old grand mother. common sense tells you that you know i'm not saying youner look at owe owe-year-old grand mothers with walkers but when i see that and see other people going through the line you're thinking i mean, it makes no sense. >> when will al qaeda get smart and take get the 80-year-old grand mother. >> sfrun afghanistan to liberia. >> here me philadelphia they took a woman where a dal apps. >> i don't think this was as much about federal agencies than outgoing turn general wanting to give example for local jurisdictions to follow he was doing what he could in the time he had. >> let's talk about the die-ins. here at channel 6 we tree lighting and we saw this eagles game last weekend and protests

maybe this weekend around the country and it may continue to go on. my question is i see them and obviously people wants you to hear the voice and feel they're beinger in order is there effective. looks good. you have to do the organizer r and laws past in that level. die-ins make people feel good but don't change anything. more community organizing and die-ins are okay and people that shut down tree lighting and try to shut down your event they're not winning heart and mind. die-ins people may think symbolically they're doing something there's no negative. it's right it feels good what's the impact or change. >> i had a story of somebody who grandchild is in second grade and came home saying you know, they are shooting young boys and we're going to have a die-in at

our school. i mean for a second grader. this is third -- kind of -- you know, what it is it's just a cartoon really of the real things that police shew have more sense activity training and the real thing police shew come out of the car and meet community. no doubt about that. i hear the conversation when i was a wrung boy my parent told me don't give heart a hard time they'll arrest you or beat you up. don't give a cop a hard time police need to get out of their car and build relationships. i don't think these die-ins are doing anything. >> does it force people with cat videos taking foot on facebook and ignore it does it interest them takeru after cap americans feel different how think get treated by law enforcement than white americans.

you're looking tat now, 82% of black people think they get treated differently by law enforcement and white people only 40 think that may be true. and these actions are for people that would say i don't see you to have to see them a little bit and have the discussion. >> yeah, i think so. i think the protests movement is only part of the reform process. and you could sav say several right marches in 60s what did they aref they elevated people's consciousness and they are things now in terms of local, training, commissioner ramsey, heating to this national program and those are good things and tangible solid things but protests has important role to play. >> in philadelphia you had a group called power a group of ministers grassroots churches and very involved in this and there's school organizing is very traditional 1960s civil rights schools.

organizing which i think is producing compelling images that can be effective tactic for agenda ask and made to occupy were unfair and i don't think that was i think that was very different type of effort with no message at all. >> we'll take a break and come message at all. >> we'll take a break and come back to our inside story. i've been babysitting these kids for years. there's like eight of them - eight? maybe three. i don't know whatever. it's like really hard to keep track of them. it's a pretty big house. anyway, that's why i really love this nest protect smoke and carbon monoxide alarm. it tells you which room the smoke is in and tells you when things are getting bad. heads up - there's smoke upstairs. that's probably taylor. he's like so into fireworks right now.

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good friend kyan douglas and my

dermatologist dr. anne chapus. are you happy with how this turned snout >> we were sdwlv welcome back to inside story i'm tamala edwards. let's look at the mayor's race ticket in 2015 big news this week dwight evans saying i'm not going to get another race he was one of the big names they thought would jump on in here. he decided at this points to say i'm not going to do it. >> i didn't think -- there's so many other people much better position and have more money than dwight evans. >> polls show he had good recognition. there was argument to be made for unareing. >> i think the issue is campaign reform for philadelphia and that happened it made it very, very difficult to raise money and in the old days you could get unlimited checks from law firms and other supporters and now you do it little bits at a time that means hours and hours on telephone calling everybody you

ever met or didn't meet and you have to really wanted to do that. because having begun through it myself raising money like that. >> it's not fun. >> first time around extremely effective. >> and he's starting late and all the people he would be calling have gotten calls from the other field of em. >> will he do something different or teetz opportunity with you and really transition his political organization to sort of next generation that he has been called to maybe. >> he said he took a look and said i can get a lot more done in harrisburg with wolf than i might if i'm down here running for mayor and don't win. somebody else will not be making those phone calls trying to raise money and that's frank rizzo former city council bhoon was sort of turned out of office after drop scandal he said after he changed parties for republican to dem extra everybody saying this will be about running for mayor he's not running for mayor he's going to run for at large city council seat. he was former councilman and five people in those seats does

he have a chance get those seats. >> it's crowded field again and when it's that large it has a lot of power. buys you 1 million rm would of television. and he probably has a shot. and i guess he did not have anything really better to do. >>fy was trend of mayor sop getting elected to council one time in the recent past we had three including frank owe so maybe he's trying to get back. >> the city counsel ill role. >> you know the big story overall of this is everybody is really waiting on darrell clarke. the field is like soft jello and it won't firm up until he says i'm in or out. what's the latest and when do you think he finally makes a hart and fast decision. >> he keeps saying he'll make a decision soon but has not. >> for a long time. >> i think has he held everybody waiting some things came along and changed.

it looks like the inquire is going -- lord staked out where it will be on the question of darrell clarke. it's clear that they pgw situation really rubbed him the wrong way it's been more than one editorial they seem to be on a mission here. i think that's -- >> i think darryl is likely to make same decision dwight did in a similar way. he would be far more effective working with mayor such as -- as council president and then getting in race resigning his position and having to raise money as a point i just made when other candidates had been raising it for months. >> it's flattering to see people in the media running and saying i'm not sure maybe in time give me -- and i think that's what a lot of folks like like him or not like him he's been effective. he gets vote and i think it's going to be -- it's different

role than being different. >> word came out this week mccaffrey who just stepped down after the big pornographic e-mail scandal we know his monthly pension $11 k a month after taking a big bite almost half a million dollars how does this hit you guys. anything to be done or that's the way the cookie crumbles. >> it is and pension is guarantee no matter what you do. i'm amazed at people. >> he was not con vingtsed of a crime. it's embarrassment to the whole system and it creates sin sim of folks that you feel like you know some earlier stories in terms of what we're talking about you feel like it's a party and they're all enjoying it and as a taxpayer -- >> i will say in his des fence he had military service and was mup us paling court judge for a long time and admirable. >> 11 k that's a lot of cheese. long time and admirable. >> 11 k that's a lot of cheese. take a short break and come back

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tam, 60s icon bob dill plan will release and all bum covering frank sinatra standards old blue eyes roll unwilling his graivr. >> in the middle of all this stuff furgeson et cetera there's a good story i can speak to my

listeners and myself staten island story a lot thought that shew is have gone to trial and don't see it same as furgeson and that's a good conversation to have. >> all right. pedro. >> some are upset and cheering and looks like mayor changes position on mandatory paid sick leave for small businesses and compromise maying be in works. >> happy story from overseas princepalty will survive prince albert kelly with his grandparents and wife prince us shirleen had twins there will be heir to the thrown. >> interesting story little girl was born first but it's little boy who will be king. >> like pension rules are the rules you know. like mccaffrey the rule book says. >> at any rate good news for them and we enjoy that philadelphia connection. so congratulations and i have to say thank you for pedro joining

our happy little band thank you we don't bite. >> thanks for being nice on my first day. >> great to have with you us and always good to have you with us as well. i'll see you back here next as well. i'll see you back here next sunday for " inside story and being one of the first patrons of the first cat cafe. >> rachael: t what's possible today? wi-fi access in more places then ever before. all your favorites in the cloud and on every device. a home you control with the touch of a finger. news and entertainment that informs and delights

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watching your guys smile that's my religion. >> our thanks to dan harris. saek red journeys with bruce feiler airs tuesday on tuesday. finally, the pentagon didn't release any names of service members killed in iraq or afghan stanl. thast all for us. we'll see you back here next week. have a great day. biggest hint yet. >> i'm going to make up my mind in short order and the pilgrimage, wounded american vets go overseas, looking for a miracle. >> announcer: from abc news, "this week" with george stephanopoulos, begins now. good morning. i'm martha raddatz, and we're tracking stories developing on