r to the heart of the french even if they sometimes find them too irreverent or shocking. just had this country on its back. and yet, they are rising up "charlie hebdo" will publish again. they have tremendous support here. >> we want to tell you where things stand. it's just after noon here in the east. in the last hour, the two major hostage situations have come to an end. raids at both areas. in dam jr. mart in dammartin-en-goele. the gunmen are dead. the hostage is safe. and in paris, in paris right now, the kosher supermarket where another gunman who had been linked to these two gunmen had taken five hostages. we have learned from the french ambassador to the united states that that gunman is dead.

all hostages safe. we're awaiting word from police officials on the ground. i want to go to jeffrey goldberg. he's outside the supermarket. you have been studying this issue of islamic radicalization across europe for some time. spent the last week there. >> yes, yes, no it's fairly remarkable day here. there is this -- without over overstating it a sense of siege in paris at the moment. i'm pretty close to the location and people around me are happy that the hostage situation ended. you see metro stations closed. soldiers on metro platforms. there is a sense of semisiege, which doesn't fit with most people's images of paris. it's interesting, george. i was at a jewish school this morning, right near this location. and, uh sorry, i have to get out of the way of police cars.

sorry. the -- um -- if you can hear me hold on one second. the huge convoy of police moving toward the scene right now. i was at a jewish skulchool this morning. there was a huge expectation that the next attack would come on the jewish community in the matter of days or weeks. two hours later, this storming of the kosher supermarket. so in the jewish community, they've been some what used to it. but now, it's sort of this anxiety and fear has spread across much of the country. >> and there had been the attack in belgium about a year ago. i'm surprised you say you were at the jewish school this morning. what kind of security precautions were they taking fearing this kind of attack would be coming? >> by the way, here's an interesting fact. let me get to that.

for the first time since world war ii the main synagogue in paris is not holding the usual services tonight out of fear of security, which is quite something, quite obviously, when you think about how long ago that was. security is tight at jewish institutions normally in france. and in belgium. you referred to the museum attack a year ago conducted by a french citizen. there was an emergency meeting of the jewish leadership of france yesterday. and, uh they -- they were -- talking about asking for more security more protection. but, you know in many cases, i was at the brussels museum that was attacked last year. i was there on tuesday. going into that museum right now is like breaking into a prison. there are so many layers of security. you can't protect everything at

once. you can't police every supermarket or newspaper office. >> we're seeing new video of people running away from that scene. as the operation unfolded earlier today. brian ross let me bring you in. jeffrey goldberg talks about the fact that there won't be a service at the jewish synagogue tonight. even though the gunmen have been killed. the other accomplice son the loose. french officials have to be concerned there are other members of the cell still out there. >> without a bout.doubt. there have been some 900 french citizens that have gone to the middle east to link up with al qaeda or isis. have they come back? with training? with the intent of carrying out a jihad against their own country? >> richard clarke let's go back as we continue to wait for the french police to come out and give information, when you

were in the white house, serveing for president bush just before and after the 9/11 attacks. the concern was more attacks like that. it mistystifyied people for years that they hadn't moved toward the small scale aa tacks. now it seems like it's happening. >> they have been trying in the united states for a decade now. the fbi has been good with help from the nsa. knowing about the plans and hearing who they are before the plot is activated. the french are good at this too. this time they were not. but, the point is sometimes you're going to miss. you can't be the goalie that gets every puck and all it takes, as we have seen in boston in paris, is for two people to not be noticed.

and brian ross is absolutely right. it takes 20 people to follow 24 hours a day, 7 days a week one man. 20 police to do surveillance. it's almost impossible to do human surveillance. we have to rely on electronic surveillance. now because of snowden's revelations and others the terrorists know how to get around those electronic surveillance techniques. >> matt olsen, you were most recently at the national countertismcounter counterterrorism center. what was the top concern when you left? the kind of threat that kept you up nights? >> we were very concerned about aqap. onbvious obviously, isis was geding headlines. we remained concerned about al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. these groups as others have

mentioned, remain focused on the west. carrying out an take against us. they remain capable and intent on carrying out attacks like this. these were the things that kept us up. >> it appears, you know, that france had been aware of this for the last several weeks. as weshl were talking about. the french president say they had stopped these attacks. perhaps the system is overloaded. >> i was thinking that way myself. we have thwarted these attacks. did they not prioritize? is that one of the reasons the suspects slipped through? they had so many things they were tracking. as dick said and matt would say as well it's difficult to track somebody 24/7. it's very difficult. you overload the band width. we have seen over the decade we have seen people who just slip

up. even if they know. even inf the snowden revelations help people understand how we track. you have to communicate if you're coordinating an take.attack. if the brothers were acting alone, they could coordinate that. that wasn't an incredibly sophisticated attack. they had weapons training. they would learn how to do that. you would think at some point, and admiral harford referenced that as well. if they were coordinating through yemen. through aqap they had to have some sourt of communication. that should have been or could have been tracked and now what they do is backtrack. >> pierre as you point out, u.s. officials have been concern about the threat from yemen for some time. near the top of the their list. >> homeland security expressed

great concern about possible new attacks against airplanes. and the genesis of that attack involved elements of terrorists in syria. but also terrorists from yemen. bombmakers. who are expert in these creative hard to detect types of bombs. so again, yemen, syria, all these things coming into fruition. one official told me including the attorney general that all of this is one of the most active terrorism environments since 9/11. people radicalized on the internet. people in the training camps. they have to watch all of it. it's a daunting task. >> what do officials take from this right now? what happens in the united states in the coming hours, days weeks? given what we have learned from the situation in france?

what kind of steps will be taken to protect our towns and cities? >> the biggest thing is information gathering. fbi and homeland security are in the process of gathering all the information they can about what happened in france. it may be delayed a bit because of all the activity today. the information will be sent out to law enforcement officials around the country. it will lay out how the attack took place. it will tell police how to respond to potential acts of terrorism coming in their area. the other thing is it would not surprise me if at airports and other places there has quietly been stepped up security in recent days. as you see in new york time and time again, when things happen overseas they'll step up security in kilo occasioney locations. we know security is stepped up in boston new york chicago, atlanta. the main thing is to get the

information out and figure out what it means for the rest of us the. >> i don't know if ray kelly, the former police commissioner of new york is here? if you are, talk about the steps new york city took after 9/11 and has become a leader in counterterrorism. >> well obviously it was important after 9/11. we had two successful terrorist attacks in new york city. we created our own counterterrorism bureau. we brought in experts from the federal government cia, fbi, dia, others. we honed our foreign language skills. we increased our recruitment to make now new york city by far, the most diverse police department in the world. with police officers born in 106 countries. obviously, that helps us as far

as investigations are concerned. well over 1,000 police officers every day devoted to counterterrorism efforts in new york city. police officers throughout the si, of course, are aware of the fact that there have been 16 plots against new york since september 11th. all have been thwarted. some because of sheer luck. some because of the efforts of the fbi and nypd. new york ceasesees its as a target. >> richard clarke we hear the warnings. coming to fruition in paris over the last couple of days. i have been struck by warnings from the british prime minister. they seem seized by what they say is the possibility or that the certainty they say of another attack coming in the united kingdom. >> that's right, george. they've been saying that now for about two or three months.

they have very good intelligence. that isis has planned something there. it was like us prior to 9/11 we knew something was coming. we didn't know where, when, or how. i think that is the situation that the british are in now. it's a -- it's a very daunting problem. because you can only stay on alert. you can only stay on tippy-toes for so long. and then you wear out your people. you have to start backing off that alert. and, the problem is the terrorists can monitor that. and they can wait for you to stand down a little. before they stage their attack. >> meantime martha raddatz, the campaign against isis continues in iraq and syria. perhaps more quietly below the radar right now. the air strikes have continued. the momentum that isis had through the summer has stalled in some respects it appears. >> it has. and the air strikes are really

ongoing. we have hundreds of troops over there now. and, we have them out in the west at al assad air base. because that's a hot bed of isis activity. they've been stalled. but not pushed back. that is key here. if you saw lately they have given the united states is now sending over emraps. those mine-resistant vehicles. and humvees. the iraqi forces seem to be out outgunned by isis. i was there when they overran mosul. isis remains a huge problem. they are not going to be pushed back until iraqi ground forces go in to try to root them out of the major city and in the west there in fa will youll will youfallujah

as well. they remain a major mayorjor threat. >> matt olsen, talk about the coordination that will be going on between the major western leader ps. the president obama, david cameron, french president francois hollande. angela merkel. what kind of coordination can we expect? >> at the highest levels the leaders are talking on a regular basis. and at a lower level, what you're having is intelligence officials and analysts on a moment by moment hour by hour discussion. sharing the latest information. i mean we're very close, of course to our european allies. and those relationships are long-standing. anything the united states has and the united states has a great deal of ability to collect

information. anything the united states has is being shared with the french the british, and with other alice. that's all being reinforced by the president and the other leaders. >> he got call from his french counterparts asking him to come over to be in solidarity with the european many sterinisters. he'll fly there and meet with the european counterparts. how the united states sees our security tied to what's happening in europe. >> one thing in terms of backtracking is the nsa's much criticized eveavesdropping wireless collection program will allow the u.s. to go back and find phone calls, internet communications these three dead terrorists had over the last year two or three years, and

begin to find threads that may lead to the u.s. other locations in france or europe. >> that gets to the critical question of coordination. was this coordinated, directed by al qaeda leaders in yemen? >> if it was directed that should show up in the communications. if it was inspired it would point to their magazine inspire. who would be the man, who is the lion with the courage to attack this newspaper and kill the cartoonists who mocked our prophet? that was the message from al qaeda through their magazine "inspire." we'll know soon willhether this thing was directly called for or if it was them being inspired. >> richard clarke we have heard about the degrading of central al qaeda. osama bin laden was taken out by u.s. forces.

aman al zawahiri has been quiet. do they not have the capability to carry out the bigger attacks? >> al qaeda central is what the people in pakistan and afghanistan are called in al qaeda. yes, there's not much there that can do this overseas attack. they have moved people. transferred people to yemen. transferred people to iraq and syria. and this is still al qaeda. in answer to your question i suspect this was directed from yemen. and that there was a decision to do this. and that they were trained in yemen and sent back. to do this. and so the question for france now is do they retaliate against al qaeda in yemen? do we see french bombers in yemen, as they had been doing in syria and iraq? >> what is your answer?

what would you expect? >> i would think they would. >> we'll be waiting to watch that as well. i want to go back to terry moran in paris right now. we know that all three hostage takers are dead. we have heard from the mayor of dammartin-en-goele that the hostage there is freed. tell us about the hostages in paris. >> reporter: well george the french ambassador to the united states, a high-ranking official tweeted out that the terrorist here amedy coulibaly was dead and the hostages free. that is now in doubt. the original statement by the french ambassador to the united states that the hostages were safe, is now in doubt. it shows that government officials in fact can get caught up in the swirl of twitter and perhaps get things wrong. we hope that is not true.

we're working to find out what happened. remember that coulibaly threatened after he took hostages here that he would kill them if his comrades in arms the kouachi brothers up in dammartin were stormed by police there. the hostages here were at risk. we don't know what happened. what we should tell you is that if you saw that tweet from the french ambassador to the united states, that is now ifn doubt. we're working to find out what happened to the hostages held here. >> and we're waiting for word from police here as well. alex marquardt up in dammartin, the latest there? >> reporter: life seems to be getting back the normal. this has been a ghost town all day. police encircled. police are the only once in the streets. now i'm looking around it look like a typical friday night.

traffic going in both directions. people seemingly going back to their normal lives. the school we have been across from all day long which had their shutters closed they're back open. students a short time ago cheering. this feels like a city that had been under siege. now celebrating that siege being over. >> i want to go back to admiral harward. the french leaders are presented with the question of whether or not and how the reo retaliate? you're a former navy s.e.a.l. tell me how would the thinking go on that kind of decision and what a retaliation might look like? >> we partner and work closely and we all share the same information as dick talked about. so the intelligence that lets you establish where other branches are, where you know

command and control, what few are left? what countries you may need to talk to before you go out and get those gauys. i think also important, and dick talked about this this information. they're watching us very closely. they watched the media. they watch all the operations we conduct for the information they can get. and they grow from that to enhance their capabilities. so most important is we go back and do the forensics from this to understand what they applied and how we prepare for those same sort of attacks. not only to prevent them but to have ready to respond. a lot still to learn from this thing. my prayers are that they did get the hostage and this was a successful operation because it is difficult as it comes.

>> what more could we do? more than 100 air strikes reported by the u.s. in the last year or so? >> i think what has to happen is they continue to share intelligence. will the french want to take a more active role in what's going on in yemen? will they want to participate in air strikes as well? because right now, the way we respond to al qaeda and to isis is air strikeses. if you look over the past decade we have talked about getting to the root of the problem. we have talked a lot about right now, the explosion on social media. the recruiting on social media.magazine. yet, we haven't been able to do anything about that that puts a stop to it. i'm sure we do things i don't know about. but overall, what kind of strategy going forward? because really the threat

environment has changed. they are these smaller attacks. they are aimed at soft targets. they can walk in that magazine office and kill all of those people with just two guns really. and massacre all those people. what happens in this country now is the security environment has to change. they have to take another look at this. it's not just airports. not just federal buildings. you can't protect all those places. >> it raises pro found questions. you can't protect every possible target in a free society. i want to take to john cohen, that question. who served in the homeland security department. that is the task officials have to go through every day. how much freedom do we sacrifice for security? >> i don't think you have to sacrifice freedom for security.

we'll learn through the investigation whether this attack was controlled and organized by aqap or other organizations or if these were individuals acting independently. we have to build the capability at the local level. local police working with local communities so we can better identify individuals who may represent a threat because they found residency through the ideology. and communities and local police need to work together to stop the threats from occurring. you can't protect every building. you can do a better job of identifying the people who are attackers. we'll be safer. >> what does that look like? take a medium-sized city like cleveland, ohio. what would you expect the local police to do in coordination with homeland security? >> well first, it's local police working with the local

community. community members have to trust police have to be willing to work with police so that when they -- when people are observe who had are of concern, they are making those reports to the local police. as they assess the risk posed by these individuals, they're applying the right intervention strategy at the right time. there is a lot police can do. there are things that mental health professionals and educators and state leaders can do. we need to focus efforts through programs like countering violent extremism or the work we're doing to prevent school shootings. this is how we prevent attacks. >> that brings up the question brian ross, of what role islamic readers take on in their own community.

we pointed out many times, the majority of muslim don't buy into this ideology. don't buy into this evil ideology. don't support violence. the community has to continue to emphasize that. >> that's right. the u.s. has launched pilot programs urging community leaders in mosques to photo if i police of people with outbursts. don't get the person in trouble but try to figure out the problem. >> richard clarke the retaliation we were talking about earlier, would this be the kind of thing where france would, they could certainly coordinate inform the united states. but not look for any kind of sign-off. >> no, no they wouldn't look for sign-off. they would look for intelligence support and military support to operate in yemen. the problem is is there a

target? within the last few weeks, yemen has fallen further apart, if that's possible. the government it's not clear that they control anything anymore. including the capital city. >> and, as we come upon 12:30 here in the east i want to give tell everybody where things stand right now. the two major hostage situations are over. the two gunmen who took over the french magazine two days ago, killed 1 people said they wanted to die as martyrs. have indeed died. both those gunmen have been killed. the hostage there in that situation has been released is safe. another hostage situation developed earlier today in paris as well. you see it at at the kosher supermarket there in paris. at least five hostages. that gunman dead. right now, all three hostage

takers have been killed. at this point, we don't have a full report on the fate of the hostages in paris. i wantt to wrap up with terry morn in paris. it's been a terrifying 48 7hours in paris this week. ending now, it appears, both hostage situations over. >> reporter: these hostage situations over. this has been a watershed moment for this country. for the french people. no question about it george. since wednesday morning, at least 13 killed as you point out. we don't know the fate of all the hostages here at that kosher supermarket. 13 dead 12 at "charlie hebdo" magazine. the french policewoman killed apparently by the hostage taker here. in just a few short days. this is one of those moments where the french people their friends around the world, will take stock of what it means right now to deal with this

infection. this virus of radical jihadist terror that is not just an international problem but now for the french and perhaps for other countries as well a national problem. neighbors. people who live in the country. citizens residents, perhaps catching that virus. becoming radicalized and perpetrating this desperate and vicious violence. this is something the french are reckoning with already. the first concern is not what does it mean? but is it over? >> another chapter in what has become a long war. thank you to terry. thank you for the entire team. we return to regular programming. we'll have a complete wrap tonight on "world news." i'm george ♪♪