>> baltimore -- why did it happen? how do other cities prevent it from happening? "inside story" starts right now. [ theme music plays ] good morning, everyone. i'm matt o'donnell. it is sunday, may 3, 2015. let's meet our panelists here on "inside story." nia meeks, nonprofit executive. hi, nia. >> hi. >> ed turzanski, foreign-policy analyst. >> morning. >> good morning, ed. jim eisenhower, attorney. >> morning, matt. >> and renee amoore, gop state official. >> hey, matt. >> thanks for joining us, all of you. the city of baltimore has seen the pot boil over, and now a lot of people are wondering, is it simmering in other cities across the country? hundreds had gathered for a largely peaceful protest in philadelphia over the death of freddie gray this past week, but you have to ask the question -- and, nia, i'll got to you first -- does every large city in america, philadelphia

included, and maybe even some smaller cities such as wilmington, which we have seen have some problems with violence, sit on a powder keg just like the one that blew over in baltimore? >> the short answer to that is the potential exists in all these cities because we have conditions that are similar in all these cities that we're discussing. and to be frank, because this is such a somber topic, we are not gonna have enough time to really delve into this. but what we're looking at are when you have an intersection of poverty, of fear, of crime, and prevention all the way around. we have the fear on the sides of both the residents, as well as the officers that are supposed to be protecting and serving and doing all of those matters, and the unfortunate incident is, when there is a death in police custody, it sets off a chain of events of fear, a chain of events of past history, of trauma, and traumatic experiences. and through that, we see horrific things that are happening, but what strikes a lot of folks as difficult is that there's so much emphasis on

destruction of property, which is horrific, which is unconscionable, but there's also the lack of focus on the loss of life in the hands of police officers, which is something that is not necessarily getting all the attention that it needs to get. and that helps to fuel the frustration that helps to undergird a lot of the simmering tensions. i want to give kudos to the philadelphia police department because, again, seeing similar protests that are happening here, they were able to handle it without the violence. and i have to say, in some instances, you can kind of feel people are kind of rooting for it. it's in this reality-tv culture that we have, like, "oh, the drama's gonna be here next. let's get into the drama. let's be part of the scene." >> you know, i think it is. you're exactly right. and you know, i've been working on this issue most of my career, and let's be frank, it was a big problem. it still remains a problem in philadelphia. but we started seeing big change under commissioner timoney and continued under commissioner ramsey. and a lot of it has to do with leadership, it has to do with

training, and it has to do with very effective internal affairs. and commissioner timoney kind of brought that approach with him and commissioner ramsey has continued with it, and i think that's why we didn't see, at least up to now, a violent reaction in our city. >> and i agree. >> let me go to renee, ed here in a second. let me just show you some of the things that we've already talked about here, but are very important in this discussion. first of all, ramsey did chair that policing task force for president obama, and, also ramsey did ask for the justice department to investigate the police department and try and find out what may be wrong and what needs to be fixed. what it found -- the justice department report, which came out about a month ago -- 400 police-related shootings in 7 years, average of 52 per year since 2007. annual shootings between 40 to 62 per year, averaging 52. 90% of those shot by police were black and latino, with 56% of the suspects having firearms. the justice department did not in any way accuse the

philadelphia police department of being racist. >> correct. >> but, again, these are some of the things that have been happening in baltimore, as well. and another thing that maybe we should mention -- both have stop-and-frisk policies, which a lot of community members just don't like. what do you think, ed? >> right now it's very interesting to see hillary clinton railing against stop-and-frisk policies and other policies that were advanced by bill clinton when he was president. his crime bill today is not a good thing. i suppose these are things that are cyclical in some way. people reach a certain saturation point with crime, they cry out for quality-of-life issues to be addressed, there's a response, things get better, and then, over time, people say, "we don't need to be doing that anymore." when new york stopped doing stop-and-frisk, suddenly gun crimes increased significantly in new york city. so there's a fine balance that has to be reached there, but in

some respects, we've got to get even further. and i think nia was talking about this a bit. there's a gentleman by the name of jeremy nowak, who's the head of the reinvestment fund here in philadelphia. he'd done work in baltimore. he's got a great piece online where it's thought-provoking. he says, "we've got to get to the question of the fabric of civil society." we've got to really get down to the point to see, where -- as jim said -- are the community leaders who are going to come together and start forming expectations, but also realities? so that, when you do spend money and when you do have the discussion about, "what do we want in terms of the balance between quality of life and pretty much the right to be left alone?" you'll have people at the table who really represent a community. >> mm-hmm. what do you see here, renee? >> absolutely. that's what i wanted to talk about. bottom line is that we're not communicating.

we're not talking. the leaders aren't talking to the community. the community's not talking to the leaders. even all these horrendous things going on -- nobody has really sat down the way they need to and have different representatives from each part of the community to really talk, to actually communicate, and say, "instead of always dealing with the problem emergency let's look at the problem and come up with a solution, but let's all work together with that solution." that's what's really missing. people don't have a seat at the table to talk. >> okay, just building on that also, we have to look at how we're talking and not waiting until the crisis erupts. >> that's what i say. >> right? and when the crisis erupts, we need to have leadership. one of the things that hasn't really been focused on in all the coverage is when the faith leaders in baltimore lined up on both sides, and they looked at the police and looked at the community and said, "listen, we have to disperse this." but they stepped in to the fray. why do we have to wait until it gets to this point to have those kinds of conversations? >> i have to wonder if race is really the overriding issue. because if you look at

baltimore... >> it's opportunity. >> ...the mayor is african-american, the district attorney is african-american and the u.s. attorney general -- the new one, as well as the last attorney general -- is african-american. >> the state who is investigating the death of freddie gray -- >> but you have the class and the opportunity. and just to build on that, also, we also have systemic issues. >> right. >> some of the policing tactics that we're looking at have been acculturated for decades, right? so even if it's a black officer, but they still have the same mind-set that has been set there, then there's still a problem. and so we have to really look at how are we dealing with the conventions. what are the underlying issues? and to the point, when you're looking at crime, you have to look at education. and you can look across, and that's what i mean about this tinderbox that exits possibly everywhere. the educational system in baltimore -- you can look at the educational system in philadelphia. >> across the country. >> across the country -- again chicago, l.a., new orleans -- i mean, any city, you can look at this. when you have this inequity, what we're looking at is the consequence of disinvestment

over a long period of time. >> but wait -- baltimore, it's the fourth-highest per-pupil spending in the country. three years ago, it was second-highest. but it's number four. it's not that they're not spending money. they're spending a lot of money. but we're talking about situations where the rate of poverty among the cohort and the number of families without two parents in the household are -- it's so high that this is a concentration of dysfunction that no amount of money is going to fix. that's where you've got to get into the essence of civil society. >> let me talk about freddie gray real quick here. freddie gray dies. >> mm-hmm. >> and it takes several weeks for even a drip-drip process of information to start. >> mm-hmm. >> what does that tell you, jim, as a lawyer? >> [ chuckles ] well, it tells you that the police are trying to be very very careful with what they

release. and when they finally do release the fact that it looked like he went for a "rough ride," meaning a common practice -- and i've investigated cases like this from the justice department 20 years ago -- with handcuffed suspects put in the back of a paddy wagon and driven at high excessive speeds and bounce 'em around a little bit. that's a common practice. it shouldn't happen. and that comes from leadership. >> mm-hmm. >> so, what jim is saying, though, this has been going on okay, for years, and people really have not focused on it, have not been proactive, just reactive like you're alluding to, when it's a crisis. so what does that say? that we have to really look at policies and procedures, how people are going about things, how they're treating human beings -- period. >> correct. >> how they're treating human beings. >> i also think that the case may be more complex than street justice will allow. and i do think that elected leadership in baltimore is grappling with how to lay out a

case that may not be quite as simple as, "the cops broke his neck." >> and easily received by -- >> that's the point. and you can just tell from the way in which the mayor of baltimore has spoken very bluntly, then tried to say, "no, no, no, i didn't say that we were gonna give people room to destroy." well, actually, yes, you did say that. now, you may not have meant it. or you didn't want it to come out quite the way it did. >> one of the things i've found over the years with juries prosecuting police officers from their brutality cases, a lot of times, the victims had been jerks. >> mm-hmm. >> a lot of times. >> yes. >> and a lot of times, a defense attorney will effectively argue to a jury, "this guy kind of deserved this." and the conviction rate in federal criminal prosecutions for police officers is way lower than any other federal crime. >> let me ask you this, renee. we have six people who would

like to replace mayor nutter at city hall. which one of those would you want in city hall if, god forbid, something like baltimore happened here? which one of these can-- and all of them are pretty much against continuing stop-and-frisk by the way, which is popular with mayor nutter. what do you think about that? >> i think that, looking at lynne abraham and her experience, looking at senator williams and his experience, and also looking at some of the things jim kenney says, i think it's a combination for me. i can't say, "this one, that one." i will look at a combination of things that they're saying, but that one person needs to look at all those things that the three of them have been saying and really try to pull this thing together. i think, one, it's a lack of experience with everybody 'cause no one really had to deal with this -- let's be honest. so everybody's shooting from the hip. >> no one can prepare for that. >> no, you can't prepare. >> it's on-the-job training. >> it is -- everybody's shooting from the hip. but they should take advantage of it now and start looking and understanding what needs to happen and put something in place. >> if you listen to the candidates, nia, it looks like stop-and-frisk is going to end in philadelphia. what do you think of that?

>> to a degree, it may end in philadelphia, but i believe that there will be policies that will be put in place to try to achieve the same goals. so we're really talking about reforming how it is that we deal with policing. community policing is something that has worked, continues to work. it does require investment, and, again, it gets down to choices like all budgets get down to choices and decisions. and that has to be something, as a wider community, we're all invested in. i mean, on social media, there were people talking about freddie gray and probably almost as many people talking about the eagles' draft. >> you know, talking about the election, over the years, some have criticized lynne abraham for not aggressively prosecuting police misconduct, and i think that's gonna be an issue she's gonna have to address in the closing weeks of the campaign. >> could we change the way we do that, prosecuting police? >> you can change anything, as far as i'm concerned. >> how would we do that? we'd have to -- >> you have to build those dialogues. again, we're talking about communication -- the communication, and in the case of baltimore, from the leadership to the people, from the police to the people. even the crips and the bloods

were tweeting their stories, you know? so everyone has their own narrative. we have to have a collective narrative and basically buy into this and set the values and say, "this is what we will agree to. this is what we are going to put in place." and i think that can be done. >> and you get people to buy into it if everybody's involved. >> that is correct. >> if you just have a little group of folks that make the decisions, it's not gonna work. that's part of the problem. >> yes. >> i don't know that any of the mayoral candidates have disqualified themselves in any way, so i think that it's fair game for all of them to opine on this. and i don't think any one of them you'd say, "no, no, it can't be you." but that having been said, let's just jump for a moment to a hard-core question that i think everyone should answer. as you said a moment ago, the mayor couldn't possibly expect to find herself in this situation where she'd have to make the call she did. a bit of wisdom from the iraq war to keep in mind -- leave aside whether we should've gone in.

after we did, there were two mistakes that we made that turned out to be consequential in a bad way. the first is looting was allowed on the theory that people were frustrated, and if you were going to try to stop it, you'd actually have more problems. second, we disbanded the iraqi military. so there was no order in the streets. if the mayor indeed did say, "look, let some of this looting happen -- it'll be cheaper in the long run to replace whatever's lost than to push back against it," and as police are saying in baltimore -- police sources are saying -- they weren't allowed to wear the full body armor, it was too intimidating, they were told to stand back -- >> they're worried about what happened in ferguson. >> if that was the case, that turns out to be some pretty bad judgement. and that's something that has to be discussed because, as we've all suggested here, we're not gonna fix the underlying causes

tomorrow. every once in awhile, this problem's going to come back and people need to understand that we're not going to allow the culture to descend into the state of nature, where life is cruel, brutish, and short. >> we need to take a break, and we'll be back with more "inside story." >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. temple fuels students with academics and opportunities to take charge. plugged in to the city, powered by the world. temple.edu/takecharge.

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[ theme music plays ] >> we mentioned the philadelphia mayoral candidates, and we have a primary coming up on may 19th, so i think we should talk about the philadelphia mayor's race, which, at this point, has been one of the most exciting we have [laughing] ever seen in the city of philadelphia. >> okay, matt. >> you know, it's been really strange 'cause there really hasn't been much negative campaigning, virtually at all. you see all the candidates there for the democratic nomination. melissa murray bailey, of course, is unopposed for the republican nomination. i guess the really only main development, other than all the debates that they've been having, is that lynne abraham started running ads, and she's focusing on education. >> mm-hmm. >> so some people thought that was kind of odd because of her history as district attorney. >> well, she has to focus on the issue that's on -- i mean, that's most prevalent on the minds of most voters. and whether you're talking about grandparents, parents, or would-be parents -- the millenials -- education is permeating the discussion across the board. but as you talk about this

election, it really is getting down to the wire because we're running out of time. and people are still thinking, "uh, this undecided guy sounds really good. i'm thinking undecided." but it's gonna be a turnout election. whoever turns them out is going to be the democratic nominee and it's between, for me, kenney and williams. that's what you see right now. >> that's what most people are saying. >> that's absolutely correct. >> going to your point, when i first saw lynne's ad, i thought, "education -- has that really been her issue?" but then, first of all, it's running a lot, and it's the same message, which ad people will tell you, in politics, it is very effective. and people see it on "action news," it's running at prime time when people are really tuning in, and it's the same message, and she looks good in the ad. >> yes, she does. >> and i think it's a very effective ad. >> i think it's very powerful, and because she understands that education is important, and that's why she's doing it, and it makes a difference. if you keep seeing and hearing something over and over again, of course you're gonna say "wow, this is somebody i didn't think would be even interested in education." so it makes a difference, but it's gonna be a tight race, as

far as i'm concerned. it depends on turnout, like you guys are saying. whoever can turn out the people -- they got to get their street folks out there, and i think it's really between williams and kenney, to be honest. >> well, but the abraham ad, there's no need for her to burnish her law-enforcement credentials. everybody knows what they are. >> already has them, yeah. >> they're stellar. so to do this -- i agree with jim. i think this was -- it's a well-done ad. >> i do, too. >> she looks good. she's got a very authoritative presence. and i actually think there's warmth that comes through. >> and i like the fact that she throws in at the end "philadelphia is underfunded we'll try to change that in harrisburg, and if not, i'll sue them," reminding people that "i'm a tough lawyer. i'm aggressive." >> but how long would that take to ever resolve a case like that? >> but you know what? nobody cares about that. it's all about the sexy. >> she made this statement, so they liked that. the bottom line is lynne could be a spoiler in this race. >> now let's talk about polling real quick, because there really

isn't any independent polling going on with this race because it's a city race. and then each candidate gets their own poll, and they're like, "oh, my goodness, i've just found out that i'm the front-runner..." [ laughter ] ...which is what happened with jim kenney recently. is there a certain dynamic here where it's kind of like people really don't know who the front-runner is because you never see any of these polls come out on "action news" saying, "hey, look, this is the front-runner right now, 30% ahead of everyone else"? >> that's not actually a bad thing. so i mean, it allows people to sort of make up their own mind as opposed to being dictated to, to say, "this is the person, and this is the eventual winner." and you're right. i mean, lynne abraham, before jim kenney, has said, "oh, yes i have a poll, and i'm winning." and it's like, "well, okay, but who paid for that poll again?" >> yeah, exactly. >> "oh, yeah, wow! you got your money's worth." at the end of the day -- again i can't stress this enough -- it's going to be turnout. whoever can turn out those wards, whoever can turn out those folks, that's going to be the person that's gonna take the banner. however, unlike in the past, depending on who the eventual winner is, there's a high anticipation that we're gonna

have an independent challenger come the fall. >> we could, yeah, so it may not be over. >> big possibility. could be you. i don't know. >> well, i don't know about that. [ laughter ] the league of women voters will be hosting a live mayoral debate right here in our 6abc's studios. takes place tuesday at 7:00 p.m. on 6abc. we'll stream it on 6abc.com. you can tweet us questions with #6abcaction, or you can e-mail us at jointheaction@6abc.com. governor wolf has been in office for 103 days now. what do you think? >> how exciting. [ laughter ] >> pennlive actually gave him some good marks. he passed gift bans right away he has a diverse cabinet, he put together a budget that still hasn't been passed yet -- it's a process still going on -- and he put a moratorium on the death penalty. >> low-hanging fruit -- he got the low-hanging fruit, so now it's the tough stuff. i mean, we know this is budget season, and this is harrisburg. this is going to be a slough for months and months until we get up into probably the end of june. i don't see this being a complete on-time budget.

i could be wrong. but i think he's trying to work some relationships and deals. there have been a lot of prickly feelings, so to speak, in how he's approached things early on. that's not going to help him in this process. i think the 100 days thing is cute, but it's arbitrary. >> but it hasn't been prickly on his part. >> no, doesn't to be his part. >> what is your take? >> my take on it at this point in his administration is, what's the tone that he's set? and in my opinion, he's been the adult in the room. he hasn't provoked anybody. he hasn't attacked anybody. he's been reasonable. >> he's set out reasonable positions. >> i know that some people are gonna disagree with you. >> he's willing to compromise. >> i'm waiting for my turn. >> i think he's off to a great start. >> real quick, renee. >> i'm just saying that he's got some issues. he's gotten people very upset. he's done some things -- i mean, the republican party, some of them are suing him along with this whole open-records thing. come on, now, jim. he has been prickly. >> they're republicans. >> please, that's not the issue. and he's a democrat. >> that's right. >> bottom line is he's really not working and being transparent as he said he would

be. >> all right, get your inside stories of the week. we'll be right back with them. make them good. we'll be back.

a part of what standardized tests don't measure, very frankly they don't measure the diligence, the potential passion of a student. so it's really a measure of how adept you are to working out a problem quickly. but what if you're brilliant and it might take you twenty minutes, but you can figure out something if you were just given time to do it and show real brilliance. is that a real measure of ability and intelligence? what you can do in one minute on a problem? get out of here.

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. temple fuels students with academics and opportunities to take charge. plugged in to the city, powered by the world. temple.edu/takecharge. >> inside stories of the week -- we start with nia. >> we've been focusing on what was going on baltimore, and one of the beef points has been how the media coverage has been. well, we're 30 years after the m.o.v.e. incident happened here in philadelphia, and so on may 14th, the philadelphia association of black journalists is going to do a forum really focusing on media coverage of issues like this and the types of things that you can learn. you can go to phillyabj.org to get the details. >> thanks, nia. ed. >> so, a week ago friday, before baltimore blew up, dwight evans was doing something in the northwest section of the city he's been doing for more than 30 years. he brought educational leaders

institutions, principals together to talk about education, but also economic opportunity and how to attract business to raise the quality of life and create a better civic space. that's the way you deal with this problem. >> thank, ed. jim. >> matt, a lot of heavy topics today, so something a little lighter -- raised my family in chestnut hill. today's the chestnut hill spring festival. it's a wonderful event. it's gonna be a beautiful day. people should head out there and have some fun. >> thanks, jim. renee. >> mine is heavy, matt. bottom line -- risa ferman seth williams, tom hogan, and jack whelan -- all d.a.s -- came up with a report dubbed "you pay us later, guys." and that means that we're putting more money into putting people in prison and all those type of things -- prosecuting -- versus putting it in education. if you put it in education, it will help. >> okay. and we didn't even get to talk about the eagles' draft picks. >> darn. >> mm. >> i don't know. [ laughter ] you know me with, "i don't care." >> okay. well, you'll care if the eagles

start off 0-6, and everyone's gonna be upset about that. i don't think that's gonna happen, though. that's "inside story" for this week. thanks to our panelists. thanks to you for watching. i'm matt o'donnell, and i'll see you monday morning on "action news." sphwhrr i'm nydia han along with eva pilgrim. >> coming up next on "action news," a mother and her child are hospitalized after a daring escape from their burning home. a wrapping -- a wrap up of the blue cross broad street run is next. >> hopefully you have outdoor placebos, it's a summer-like sunday find out how long the warm whrp lasts in the exclusive

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>> good afternoon, it is sunday, may 3. >> here's some of the stories we're following on "action news." fire keeps crews busy in camden with two blazes that broke out hours