>> this is "puerto rican panorama," a program that explores the challenging issues, cultural diversity, and multinational heritage of the delaware valley latino community. and now here's your host, diego castellanos. >> many of you have heard the name oscar lópez rivera, i'm sure, for years. and some of you may understand what his name stands for. some may not. today, we're gonna be talking about him, and i'm gonna be talking about oscar lópez rivera with the man who probably puts his name out there more frequently than anyone else that i know. and he is luis sanabria. luis sanabria is from the national boricua human rights network. and guess what? we found a relative of

oscar lópez rivera. his name is julián lópez, and he is also here with us. let's begin by telling the audience, who is oscar lópez rivera? >> oscar lópez rivera is a puerto rican. he's a veteran. he was a decorated veteran in vietnam, he was a community organizer in chicago, and in 1981, he was arrested with a group of other puerto ricans and charged with seditious conspiracy. that was in 1981. in 1999, president clinton offered to release him and 13 other of his friends that were arrested because of the disproportionate sentence that they gave him. they had given him 70 years of prison for an act that he had no -- he had committed no violence, and it was never proved. >> had he killed anyone? >> no, no, no. he was charged with sedition. now, nelson mandela was charged with seditious conspiracy. so was jesus christ.

so, we have groups of governments that have always charged people with sedition when they oppose the government. so, oscar was -- oscar could be released right now. he should've been out right now. >> how long has he been in? >> he's been in since 1981. in 1999, president clinton released all of -- all of his comrades except two. and because those two were not on the list, oscar refused the commutation. >> oh. >> so, those two are already out, and now oscar can't get out 'cause rejected clinton's offer in 1999. >> so, he got an offer to... >> he got an offer to be released from prison in 1999, a presidential clemency, by the way. >> okay. >> so, the only thing that's gonna be able to release oscar at this point is a presidential commutation. now, let me explain something very quickly here. in this month that's just passed by, we had the united nations that just passed a resolution for his release -- this in june. we have the hispanic

congressional caucus, which just passed the resolution and sent president a letter by the congressmen, the latino congressmen in the united states, to have him released. we had the city of new york city, city council, that just passed a resolution to have him released. the pennsylvania bar association here just passed a resolution. >> mm. >> we have an immense, immense support that no other puerto rican in the history of puerto ricans have ever had. neither did albizu campos when he was incarcerated, lolita lebrón when they were released. now, to understand a little bit of our history, you got to understand that we have done this before. we have had presidents that have released puerto ricans that opposed the government before, so this is nothing new for president obama to do. >> give us an example of -- >> well, for example, president clinton. president clinton released 13. now, eric holder -- eric holder was the attorney general, and eric holder was also the attorney general for barack obama. so, barack obama is also from chicago where oscar is from, so

barack obama is very aware -- >> you think they know each other? >> i am not saying that. what i'm saying is that -- i'm saying that the president knows of the situation because it's been on his desk since he was a senator in chicago. so, it's been on his desk, so he knows about this. i mean, obama can't pass a health bill, so that's how politically this world is for him, but the only way that oscar will be released is by through a presidential... clemency. that's what we expect. in puerto rico, even the governor of puerto rico came to visit him. you've got the senators in puerto rico that all passed a resolution for his release. you got 34 when he... in may, he turned 34 years incarcerated. you have -- they went on this march that went through 34 towns in puerto rico. there's an immense support in the religious sector for his release. pierluisi also -- which is also statehood, by the way, supports his release. he's a commissioner resident in washington. >> mm-hmm. >> so, the question is, who doesn't support oscar's release? and -- and that's -- that's the

good question here. in our community, our people support his release. 34 years is a long time for not committing a crime like murder or nothing like that. it's a political issue, and 34 years is a long, long time. >> if i could add, too, i believe the maximum sentence for seditious conspiracy is meant to be 20 years in the first place. he's already far extended that. >> mm-hmm. mm-hmm. yeah, what... will it take in terms of the community? what -- is there something that the community, our community can do to kind of press on that issue? >> sure, one thing is, again, our elected officials is one. we should press our elected officials to send letters to the president of the united states. the other thing is stuff like we're doing here, just keeping aware the -- the idea that oscar lópez is incarcerated. >> inform people. >> the thing that people should also know that isn't in the united states, you have political prisoners. that's a very important issue to discuss here in these days, and

he is a political prisoner. oscar lópez rivera is a political prisoner, huh? >> we have other political prisoners. >> sure, but we're not here to discuss that, but, yes, of course. yes, of course. >> no, but, i mean, that's news to me. >> well, yes, yes. >> i didn't realize that. >> well, you got people here from the black panthers that are still incarcerated since the '60s, so those are black people that have been in jail for more time than oscar has, and, you know, so there is political prisoners. >> you say that he was incarcerated... >> mm-hmm. >> ...for seditious... >> conspiracy. >> ...conspiracy. but tell me about something physical that he did to bring about the arrest. i mean, people don't walk up -- i mean, you know, you -- >> he belonged -- i understand. he belonged to an organization called fuerzas armadas de liberación nacional in the '80s -- in the '80s through all latin america. >> is that the same as los macheteros? >> it's similar, yes, but in the united states. in the '80s -- in the '80s, through all latin america, there were guerilla movements, and there were dictatorships all over.

i just met an argentinean woman here, and she -- in the '70s and '80s, there was an argentinean dictatorship there that killed thousands of people. so, there was a different period of time when oscar was doing this, but -- but oscar was fighting for the independence of puerto rico. he got arrested. he declared himself a political prisoner. he put no defense. he never defended himself in court. and -- and he was charged with 70 years, and it's a disproportionate sentence for what he's been charged with. so, we're just asking on a human-rights level to have an unconditional release. we have to take a break, but when we come back, i want to get a little bit more clear... >> sure. >> ...into the... you know, you say he was arrested because he was a companion for the independence of puerto rico. >> mm-hmm, mm-hmm. >> it's hard to believer that somebody would be arrested for purely political reasons. >> well, it's not the first time. >> with that, we're taking a break. >> it's not the first time. >> so, hold your thoughts.

>> sure. >> and we'll be back in two minutes.

>> we're talking today about oscar lópez rivera... a prisoner who has been in jail for a long, long time. we refer to him as a political prison -- prisoner, rather. although... you know, it raises the question... >> mm-hmm. >> ...was he -- was he... put in jail because of his political ideas, or did he... >> it was seditious conspiracy. >> ...was doing something against the law? >> right, seditious conspiracy, diego. seditious conspiracy is a political charge. you see? that in itself is a political charge. seditious conspiracy means to

try and overthrow the united states' legitimate, which is not in puerto rico, by force and violence. now, we're not here to discuss his charge. what i think is important is, is the fact that you've got a puerto rican male that went to vietnam, that's a decorated vietnam -- >> now, you said that before. >> yeah, well, the thing is that it's been -- we've got to emphasize the fact because we -- we need to understand that he's been incarcerated for 34 years, and we're dealing about an issue of human rights. >> and, i mean, that's really what resonates more across, i think, the community and amongst, you know, even distant family members like myself is the fact that this is a human-rights issue. this is, you know... abuse of his own rights as a prisoner, as a citizen. you know, he's been incarcerated for 34 years. he was in solitary under torturous conditions for about 12. >> that's right. >> you know, under very, very harsh conditions, and yet despite all that, he still managed to remain unbroken. he's still able to interact with the world outside and encourage people to take care of other

puerto ricans, you know? >> why would the governor of puerto rico come? the governor of puerto rico came and visited him. >> let me ask him a question, luis. julián, did you ever meet him? >> i have not met him. he was -- he has been incarcerated longer than i have been alive, actually. >> right. okay, right. >> yeah. >> good point. >> now, what is -- what is the conversation in your family around him and his -- his problem? >> it's mostly -- >> share that with us. >> i mean, we've mostly seen it as a human-rights issue. you know, i first learned about oscar when my father took me to the not enough space exhibit, which was talking about the terrible conditions he was kept in. you know, for me, what -- i've never really shied away from the association, but for me, what's most important is the fact that this was a man fighting for other -- his community, fighting for, you know, the betterment of his community... you know, and the fact that he is -- by fighting for his own personal agenda, by fighting for

his own personal beliefs and the beliefs of other puerto ricans that he's been abused by the american legal system. >> this is almost as if they have locked up george washington and thomas jefferson and so forth because they did the same thing against england. >> i mean, yeah, ideologically, you could draw those parallels where they're trying to separate, you know, someone trying to separate themselves from what they view as an aggressive system, you know, wanting to take, you know... >> yeah. >> ...wanting to fight for... >> independence. >> let me get away -- let me get away from the -- from the oscar lópez rivera issue, and let's talk about independence. luis, is there a different route for independence... for puerto rico without the violence? >> of course. but we didn't come here to discuss independence. >> no, no, but i'm asking you. >> yeah, of course, of course, there is. there's tons of ways. there's tons of ways. we could do a... we could elect people, not pay the debt, not pay nothing, and

of course we can, but that's not what we're here for. we're here to discuss, from where i'm sitting, the issue of human rights. >> no, no, i'm looking for alternatives. >> absolutely. >> you know -- >> absolutely, but it's such an in-depth. >> you want independence for puerto rico, you know, and you want it now, and i'm saying -- >> well, we're only 112 years late. >> but you keep on interrupting me, so therefore i cannot finish my question, and therefore, you have no answer to give me because you haven't heard what i'm asking. what i'm asking is, is there another way to politically, perhaps, that puerto rico could obtain its independence finally without having to do illegal things? >> to resort to violence, yes. your answer is yes. >> how? >> i don't know, diego. we could vote, but if we vote, we'd have to ask the congress of the united states because if all the puerto ricans right now would vote for independence, we would still have to ask the congress, and they would then decide if they would grant us independence. you see, so that's not an option for us. >> i understand.

>> good. so, we don't know, diego. we don't know. we don't know the future. we just don't know. we can't anticipate it. there's tons of ways. in puerto rico, there's a lot of movement in the streets around independence. >> there's been several plebiscites... >> yes. yes, yes. >> ...in puerto rico, and none of them... >> none of them give us a clear-cut number. >> exactly. >> the problem with the issue of plebiscite is that to have a real plebiscite -- and you've got here an attorney -- to have a real plebiscite, you have to withdraw the united states from puerto rico. when we're free, we create a plebiscite to see if we want to be associated with the united states. you see, the promises -- the promises that we're starting here from the premise that we were invaded. so, the same people that invaded, that has occupied us, are telling us to vote for them. that's a little funny, you know, so we're trying to figure this out ourselves. we don't have the solution, diego. if we did, we would be free already. >> when they have those plebiscites in puerto rico, what are usually the percentages choosing independence, statehood, or status quo? >> let me just say something

very clear. let me just say something very clear. the immense majority of the puerto ricans do not want statehood. that's extremely important. >> okay. they want the status quo. >> yeah, they don't want state -- no, no, i didn't say that. i said they don't want statehood. >> okay. >> the united states government does not want statehood. they want it to stay just like it is, right? >> okay. >> what we're saying -- what we're saying is that we have the right to self-determination, for us to decide, not to have another government decide for us. so -- so, we draw parallels, for example, with the palestinian movement or with any other colonized country through the 600 years that we've trying -- 500 years with spain, 100 years with the u.s., and we're trying to figure this out ourselves. so we don't have a clear-cut solution. what we do know is that oscar lópez rivera represents the best of us. that we do know. >> i think it's telling, too, that regardless of how split people are about whether the islands remain -- become a state, remain the same, or become independent, regardless of how different everyone's views on that particular issue is, a lot of puerto ricans still are unified in the sense that they believe oscar should be

free. >> that's right. >> they believe as a whole that he is served his time, you know, as, you know, really should not be kept any longer than he has to be. >> when barack obama went to puerto rico, the immense majority of the elected officials there, including norma -- norma, senator norma, statehooders, went up to obama and told him, "you must release oscar. you see, you can't have a plebiscite -- you can't have a plebiscite or referendum or whatever you call it with political prisoners and the fbi and police behind independentistas, following us like we were criminals. you see, that can't happen. that's not real, free elections. so, in that context, we don't know what would happen, but what i'm saying is that barack obama was told when he went to puerto rico by the statehood party that they needed to release barack -- they needed to release oscar lópez rivera as a gesture. >> the statehood party? >> yes. yes, as a gesture. >> they suggested that? >> absolutely. listen, you've got... you've got -- you've got pierluisi, which is a resident

commissioner which supports statehood. he's already on the list to have oscar being released. you got the governor of puerto rico that visited him, so that's a whole commonwealth people that -- that support that and independence people. >> obviously, we don't have enough time... >> right. >> ...to finish this discussion, but if anyone would like to contact you... >> sure. >> ...for more information on this, how can they do that? >> 215-667-5296. or you can send a little e-mail to lsanabria -- s-a-n-a-b-r-i-a -- number 1@yahoo.com. and we'd be more than glad. we got tons of literature. we got films. we've got movies. we got a lot of stuff on oscar. and we should remind people that we've got seven presidents in latin america that are calling for his release. >> mm-hmm. >> so, you know, bolivia... >> okay. >> ...ecuador, et cetera. >> well, thank you very much. >> thank you, diego, for your kindness. >> you know, and best -- best of luck on your -- on your mission.

>> yes, indeed. >> you know, it's -- >> we will win. we have no doubt. >> thank you, and don't go away because we'll be back in a couple of minutes with another guest.

>> the san juan bautista parade, which is the puerto rican parade in camden, new jersey, that was scheduled for father's day was canceled because of the threat of nasty weather. as it turned out, now, in retrospect, we know that father's day turned out to be a beautiful day, so -- so... you know, but the parade was canceled. i mean, the parade could've taken place, but it had been canceled... before father's day, so in anticipation of bad weather. so, i've invited juan gonzález,

the chairman of the parade, back on to tell us now, what about this? you know, is the parade gone for, you know, totally eliminated for 2015, or is it gonna take place some -- some other time, or what's the story, juan? >> okay, well, again, thank you, doctor, for inviting me, and the parade is on. the parade in camden, the san juan bautista parade, the puerto rican parade in camden, new jersey, is now scheduled for sunday, july the 12th at the camden waterfront, so everything's a go. as you pointed out, doctor, yes, on father's day, june 21, that was the anticipated date for the parade and the festival at the camden waterfront, but the storm was lurking around. it was approaching the philadelphia area, kind of hit a little early, so it turned out to be a beautiful day... >> mm. >> ...but in preparation for the parade, that was affected. for example, there were torrential rainstorms saturday

night, early sunday morning, and the floats would've been ruined. can you imagine? >> yeah, all the floats. >> and all the queens that you have that wear the beautiful dresses. >> absolutely, so that was a big factor. plus, we had people coming down, marching units coming from as far as boston... >> oh. >> ...new york city and the bronx, from delaware area, here in the philadelphia, so travel, also, was affected. so, it wasn't simply that, wow, it turned out to be a beautiful day and it was a shame that it was rescheduled. it was not canceled -- rescheduled -- but, again in preparation, all of those things, all of those factors were taken into consideration. >> now, july 12th... >> july 12th. >> ...is the new day for the parade. >> yes. >> but doesn't that coincide with the penn's landing hispanic fiesta on the pennsylvania side? >> it does, and that's a wonderful thing. it complements one another, actually, so we're building and promoting the san juan bautista parade and festival at the wiggins waterfront park there on the camden side. >> on the new jersey side.

>> on the camden side. we're promoting that as a sister celebration, if you will, with on the philadelphia side at penn's landing. as you pointed out, doctor, hispanic fiesta that saturday and sunday, july 11th, july 12th. that sunday on philadelphia's side, the big headliner is la india, which is a very popular performer. so, it's gonna be one big celebration both sides of the river, both sides of the delaware river. you catch the riverlink, the little ferry from camden to philly, philly to camden... >> yeah. >> ...and enjoy a beautiful day out there on the waterfront. >> yeah, okay. so, you're not -- you're not competing with the... >> no. >> ...with the festival on the philadelphia side. you're actually... >> we're complementing each other. >> ...complementing it. >> that's right. >> if you had a boat that could go back and forth on the river [chuckles] >> and we do. there is the riverlink, which is the boat, the ferry, that connects the camden side to philadelphia's side right from penn's landing to the wiggins waterfront part in

camden. catch the ferry, and it's very inexpensive. >> i was only kidding. i didn't realize -- >> absolutely, absolutely. >> yeah. >> so that's a beautiful thing, plus the marina is right there on the camden side. >> now, for the people who -- who still want to participate in the parade... >> yes. >> ...and probably registered to participate on it on father's day, was there any room left for -- for participation? what was the contact information? >> sure, well, contact information remains the same. to contact the office at area code 856-757-9600 -- 856-757-9600. we also have the website, www.sjbp.org. but you asked a question, doctor. you had registered for the parade for sunday, june 21st, no problem. in fact, the majority of those who registered will now be available for sunday, july the 12th, to be in the parade.

plus, we picked up a couple others who were not available because it was father's day. >> ah. >> family-oriented day, of course, and they were not available for june 21. now they are available for july 12th. >> july 12th. >> you know, in a way, it's kind of a blessing in disguise, you know? more... time for promotion, more time for, you know, getting more performers in the parade. >> what if it rains july 12th? >> bring an umbrella. [ both laugh ] bring an umbrella, but the storm that hit that weekend of father's day, june 20, june 21, that was that major storm that came up through the gulf of mexico to texas and across the united states, so that was a major storm. >> i know. it's an electric storm, also thunder and lightning. >> yes, yes, so it wasn't just a little rain. that was a very major storm. >> yeah, okay. >> all right, so, again, the parade is on. it's not canceled -- sunday, july the 12th. >> now, is this the first time ever that the parade changes from june to... >> in my recollection, yes, and

i've been involved literally all of my life. >> 'cause it's usually the last sunday in june. >> yes, and absolutely, and this year, there was a little change in that regard. the last weekend in june this year is the tall ships in both philadelphia and camden side. so that's a big celebration that's billed as one of the biggest tall ship regatta events in the country. >> we're out of -- we're out of time, so july 12th? >> july 12th, camden waterfront. there's still time to register. please come and join us -- the parade of san juan bautista, the puerto rican parade in camden, new jersey. >> okay. >> gracias. thank you. >> any questions, they can call or contact that information that we gave earlier. >> right. >> and i thank you, and i... >> thank you, doctor. >> ...and i wish for you and camden that july 12th is a nice day. >> thank you, doctor. >> so, thanks again, and thank you at home for watching. have a good day and a good week.

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