s. on "inside story," how do we change what president obama calls an unjust criminal-justice system? let's get the inside story. good morning. welcome to "inside story," and let's meet our insiders this week, and they are sharmain matlock-turner -- good morning, welcome back to you -- a nonprofit executive christine flowers, attorney and journalist -- good morning... pedro ramos, attorney -- good morning, sir -- and val digiorgio, attorney, as well. president obama was in philadelphia for the naacp convention, along with a host of other big names in politics and business, but he really spent the bulk of his time criticizing america's criminal-justice system, and the numbers really are shocking when you sit down and take a look at it. let's hear from him first about what he found appalling. >> so, let's look at the statistics. the united states is home to 5% of the world's population... but 25% of the world's

prisoners. think about that. african-americans and latinos make up 30% of our population. they make up 60% of our inmates. we've also locked up more and more nonviolent drug offenders than ever before for longer than ever before. [ applause ] and that is the real reason our prison population... is so high. >> so, in a nutshell, he said -- and if you just tick through it -- that african-americans and hispanics are unfairly stopped charged, convicted, and overly sentenced compared to similar crimes committed by non-people of color. a disproportionate jail term for many of them, which means they're in longer, almost always solitary confinement in situations when it's not necessarily warranted, and very little rehabilitation, so we're really making a bad situation worse because, as he said, the majority of them will get out someday and have no skills and a lot of anger and certainly have learned to be even more hardened criminals. how do you start to crack that nut? there are so many levels there

and i know you've worked with a lot of the prison inmates. really, he had a list of some ideas, but what are your ideas? >> well, i think first and foremost is that it's important, i think, for us to know that this is becoming a bipartisan issue, which i'm really glad about. i mean, i disagreed with governor corbett on a lot of things, but in his first budget address, he talked about the prison industrial complex and we needed to do something to try to change that. so, i think first and foremost is to try to make sure that this doesn't become just a partisan issue, because it is an extremely serious issue. we are overcharging people. we are not being fair in making sure that when we look at the drug situation that everyone is being treated the way that they should be in the criminal-justice system. but we also have to do more on the prevention side. we have prevention intervention, and then fair sentencing, and at every level we need to be making some serious, serious changes. >> and these are tremendously expensive mistakes, if you want to call it that, or at least wrapped up in a system that's on

a roll here, and he said if we just change how long the mandatory sentence is or not even have mandatory sentencing case by case for nonviolent offenders, we could save $80 billion a year, and that's pre-k -- universal pre-k -- for 3- and 4-year-olds across the country, which both sides have been pushing for. so, there's your number right there. >> it's absolutely true, and what sharmain said is right. this is now a bipartisan issue and it's not a matter of opinion any longer. there is science here. the numbers speak for themselves when you have 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population, so this is something where the mandatory minimums for example, for nonviolent offenders are unnecessary, especially when you have people who are from so many different diverse communities. it's -- it's -- it's taking them out of the system for years, decades, periods of time in which they might be able to get an education, they might be able to get some work experience, contribute to the future. the horrible part is that so

many young people are going in to the system, because when you have young people, you are thwarting the future for the rest of us. >> and, val, they're not raising their families, either, because they're behind bars. someone else is left to that, or these children raise themselves. >> that's right. one staggering number i saw -- 1 in 6 african-american men are gonna be in the penal system at some point. if that trend continues, it will be 1 in 3. that has ramifications throughout our society in terms of cost, in terms of children growing up without their fathers, in terms of those men not being able to get into the workforce later. i think the president is right to focus on this. i will say, however, that the answer is not solely reduce crime by reducing the number of crimes in the crimes code. there has to be a holistic look at this, because crime also happens to affect the african-american community disproportionately to other communities -- the white community, for instance. so, we have to keep those neighborhoods safe, but we have to find a way to address. i think the president's right to address this. >> and you just can't unlock the prisons and let everybody out. >> no, and i think you have to pay -- i mean, you can't get out

of the situation the way we got into it. the way we got into it was through sound bites -- "three strikes, you're out," "zero tolerance." and as we think about how we reform the system, we have to pay attention to the prevention issues. you have to pay attention to addiction issues, as governor christie was saying. and, also, at the naacp convention, president clinton said, "i was wrong. i was wrong to pursue harsher sentencing guidelines. some of these programs we pursued that sounded good at the time have not worked out." so, as we come out, it's more than reforming sentencing guidelines. i think we have to remember about -- we have to remember to pay attention to employment and other issues. >> and in philadelphia specifically, there's a bail situation where we are the poorest big city in america, and so many people, when they get arrested and they're awaiting a trial or even a hearing to have a trial, they can't afford to make bail, so they're stuck in

jail. one lady, i read, was in prison for prostitution allegations -- has been in prison for 100 days, 118, and still hasn't had her first hearing. we just paid for 1/3 of a year for her, and she was away from her family in her situation. so, it's not that she -- she's a nonviolent offender. that's considered a nonviolent offense. >> well, the tragic story of the young man in new york at rikers island who was -- he was arrested for stealing a backpack. had $3,000 cash bond set. the family could not make it. was in jail for three years. refused to plead guilty. charges were dismissed. he committed suicide. i mean, this -- this is a tragedy of unimaginable proportions. >> and, in fact, new york is preparing to do away with their cash bail. new jersey's already -- last year, the legislature approved an act that says that judges can decide, for nonviolent offenders, not to even set up a bail. should philadelphia go down that road? >> well, we clearly have to get back to the point where judges have discretion of what they can do, and prosecutors. the pendulum is now swinging back, you know?

we came down very hard on lawlessness and crime, and now it's swinging back the other way. the key is not to swing back too far and to do so in a way that like i said, is holistic, that looks at opportunities for african-american and hispanics and other people who are going to jail and ways to rehabilitate them. >> it means giving them that discretion but also giving them some tools. >> correct. >> you're tying being released to participating in programs that help people improve their chances of not going back to jail. >> right, and we know that prevention works. i mean, poverty and social isolation are still keys to pushing people through what they call the education-to-prison pipeline. we have to do more about making sure that there are opportunities for jobs, making sure there are opportunities for quality education, making sure that we are desegregating our communities around housing. we still have a lot of work to do to really open up our communities and to make sure that everyone really sees that the american dream is for them too.

>> mm-hmm. >> let's move on and talk about philadelphia police force and how the colors of the rainbow in the police force and how they are changing, some people would say, not for the better. it depends on your viewpoint. but, certainly, the police force under commissioner ramsey and mayor nutter had more of an african-american percentage when they first started, and now they say it's harder to find qualified african-american and hispanic candidates and that's the reason, in their words, that we have fewer, that we've lost several percentage points, in the current class of recruits, as well as overall -- 57% white right now in the 6,300 officer field. 33% -- so, 1/3 -- black, 8% hispanic and asian, among others. and the numbers are continuing to go down for people of color in the police force. on the one hand, we had a rough year nationwide between police and people who have been arrested, whether rightly or wrongly. in philadelphia, not as bad of a situation on that front, some would say, but, again, does this mean we're headed for trouble? >> well, i think, number one the first thing we have is

pretty much of a 70% approval rating for ramsey, so a lot of people in the city trust him. so, when he sort of answers these questions, people are going to pay a lot of attention. >> and he's african-american for people who are new to the city. >> but it is troubling that the numbers are so low. there clearly are some strategies that i know that he has employed. i'm on the peirce college board, and we just started a new criminal-justice program there where we graduated our first class of seven students. there's a 25% discount rate for tuition for people who are going through this program, who are then gonna go in to the police department. so, i think there's some action that's being taken, but i think we shouldn't be comfortable that this number is good. >> he also says that minorities often fail the fitness test, pedro, so it's the physicality. >> well, there are a number of issues that the police department have raised. they've raised the 60-credit college requirement. they've raised the fitness test, including the psychological test.

they haven't given a lot of detail about that. they haven't addressed whether the 60-credit college requirement has made the police department better or in what way. is that -- how important is that requirement? is that the right number? the other thing that nobody's spoken of is we've lifted the residency requirement for the police department, and that certainly ensures that the demographics of the police department's gonna be more regional. >> you know, i want to go to -- the demographics is important. you need to have people of color in communities of color for just the confidence of seeing people on the other side who look like you. >> and the city's 44% african-american, so it would be something that at least would be familiar faces. >> but the issue about the 60 college credits -- i like what ramsey said. that's not going to go away. what he was saying was you don't dumb down the standards to open up a pool for a group of people because it's presuming, then that people are not capable of coming up to those standards.

it's patronizing. and what i like about him -- he's saying, "you know, if people go to college, they want the opportunity." i mean, we're not talking about four years of college. we're talking about 60 credits. if they go to two years of schooling, they have the -- they have the right to expect a good job. they have the right to expect to get on to the police force. and we, as the citizens of philadelphia, have a right to expect that we have an educated police force, as well. so, i don't think that that 60-credit requirement is the problem or should be the problem or should be eliminated. >> we also have a new mayor who will be coming on board at some point. we don't know who that person is yet. that's still an election to be held. but jim kenney is the democratic nominee, and that person has a 7-to-1 advantage, so likelihood is that he may be our mayor. >> i'm still holding out hope. >> i know you are. >> val is still gonna move in and run, i heard. >> does it change when the mayor becomes a white man? and we currently have michael nutter, who's african-american. so, now you have even more white

representation. >> right. right. but i think jim is -- if he's the successor, as he likely will be, is widely accepted in the african-american community as someone who speaks to their values and to the needs of that community, so i don't know that that will necessarily add anything to this racial component here. but getting back to what christine -- i think the key is for us to try to raise standards. one thing of those who aren't getting in that community -- one thing that frustrated me as i was reading the articles and preparing for this, it wasn't apparent to me as to why african-americans weren't getting through. there was some psychological testing that they were failing. i'd like to find out more about that -- why they aren't passing that -- and what we can do. >> but this is an employment situation. i mean, it's not about sort of armchair -- you know, armchair theory. it really -- if we're setting standards that necessarily shrink the pool of potential applicants, we should be able to justify the criteria. you should be able to show that it improves your department and it improves the performance in the police academy, improves

the -- and, you know, is it 60 credits? is it 60 credits in one particular line of study? it's an employer, and i think that's the type of analysis that should be part of it. it's not to say that it should change standards. perhaps a rigorous review means the standards are different but higher. >> mm-hmm, but i certainly agree that we need a rigorous review. i think the same thing came through -- we have a lot of anecdotal stories about what might be happening. >> that there's some discrimination, possibly. >> it could be discrimination anywhere along that chain, whether it's from recruitment, whether it's from educational attainment. any of those things could be on the table. i'm glad the issue was raised. it should be very troubling for all of us, and we do need to get to the bottom of it. >> talk about pennsylvania's budget. we don't have one currently that's in place or about to become in place. the july 1 date passed, and before anybody looks around, it's gonna be august 1. they're not even close. so, governor wolf has his list and, certainly, the house and the senate have their ideas, and

ne'er the two shall meet, it appears, because of taxes -- raising them or not raising them -- cutting budget items and deciding how to cover for those. so, what do you see happening coming up in the next couple of weeks? anything? >> unfortunately, the people i talk to say nothing's gonna happen in the next couple weeks. a lot of the members have scheduled vacations. they're going away. and a lot of the pressure points that sort of kept people at the table are no longer there. there was a court ruling that said you could not have state employees work and not pay them. there are also some questions as to whether or not legislators in the past weren't getting paid and whether or not some of them are getting paid, and some of them are refusing pay, so some of those kind of pressure points you don't have. richer school districts have reserves, so they're not sort of, like, screaming yet. nonprofits are scared, but they're afraid to start screaming right away, to be seen as if they're creating a panic. >> and state property taxes were

on the agenda for both sides. it doesn't appear there's major reform coming. many pundits would say the first year in office for a new governor is your best chance because after that, it starts to become other issues and re-election takes over if that person runs for office again. so, you think there's zero to none -- no chance of that? >> yeah. i mean, there are real philosophical differences here between the executive and the legislature. i don't think they're playing politics. i really think that they can't come to an agreement on the whole issue of taxes, of reform, of privatization of the liquor store, of the state system. so, i don't see anything happening before august 1st. >> and not only the substance side of it, which is, as christine noted, is there, but the acrimony -- the level of acrimony -- is higher than we've ever seen. governor wolf continues to be on a campaign footing. i'll give you an idea. he's continuing to say in negotiations, even this week "here's my plan. take it or leave it." the republicans are saying "well, we put it up for a vote. it didn't get one vote, not even among the democrats." and now -- and now they're in a

situation where the governor's still saying, "take it or leave my plan." >> right. >> and republican -- southeastern republican legislators in my county and montgomery and delaware and bucks are being attacked by the governor for not supporting his plans. everybody's digging in. we need to get out of campaign mode and start negotiating. >> we're well into -- we're now into the fiscal year, and they're really not even negotiating. in fact, the acrimony's probably making it harder. and it's a game of chicken. and that's what people really need to appreciate. it's a game of chicken, and a game of chicken boils down to, you know, is the legislature gonna blink as legislators start not to get paid, or is the governor's office gonna blink when these nonprofit organizations on whom a lot of people depend start to not be paid? and we're coming up on the pope's visit in september, as this human-services crisis is pending with the budget. >> okay. we'll take a break. "inside story" continues right after this.

>> welcome back to "inside story." a former harrisburg mayor has been indicted on alleged bribery, theft tampering-with-records charges. the attorney general says that he stole hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe half a million, by buying artifacts that were unnecessary and warehousing them and later trying to allegedly sell them. he's in the crosshairs.

likely that anything will happen with that? will he go to jail, pedro? >> uh, it looks -- you know, any time the attorney general goes into an elected official's office, that's something that's not done lightly, and, apart from the attorney general's issues, this is a professional law-enforcement staff that's doing this, so you have to take it very seriously. >> she herself is in the crosshairs for different reasons, and she says she will not resign. if she is formally charged with perjury -- a grand jury said that she did leak some secret information as a way to get back at a foe. she denies it, but they have also an investigation, and now the montgomery county d.a. is looking in to that, as well. do you think that there's gonna be anything in the end that comes from that? >> well, you know, risa is taking her time, and she can take her time because there are judicial elections that are coming up. this is a political decision as well as a legal one. but, as pedro was saying anytime you have someone going into an official's offices and checking in to things, it's not good, and people have gone in to

kathleen's offices. but the bottom line is kathleen's drawn a line -- her line in the sand, saying, "i'm not leaving. i'm not going anywhere, so you can indict me, but i'm gonna continue." so, i do see an indictment. i do see an indictment, but i don't see kathleen going anywhere for a long time. >> mm. it'll be interesting to watch. all right. in future elections pennsylvania senator pat toomey's building quite a war chest -- four times what his likely opponent already has in the bank. so, $8.3 million budget -- a lot of tv ads and everything else he would need in a campaign. do you see any other likely people coming forward? there's a couple who are in the offing -- maybe katie mcginty, maybe a few others -- but that's a lot of money to try to overcome. >> it is a lot of money. it speaks well to his stature. it doesn't count superfund money, which is being accumulated, as well. i think it's gonna be a daunting task to beat him, not only because he has the money but because he's been a politician who's been able to stick to his core principals but find middle ground. we saw that on gun control. we saw that last week on a

legislation that passed 90-0 to make sure that felons aren't being hired by school districts. we saw it yesterday when he spoke on the senate floor for the state of pennsylvania and the city of philadelphia's education budget because rural senators from other states were trying to get that money reallocated to their states, and pat toomey, in a very impassioned way, spoke on behalf of the philadelphia school district. so, he's been able to get to the middle ground. >> and his likely opponent did not show up. joe sestak did not go to a democratic function that was held last weekend, so it may even be that he's decided not to pursue it with the same vigor that he has at one time. last time they were almost tied. >> or he didn't think that that was the friendliest crowd for him. >> [ laughs ] maybe. >> i think if -- i agree that toomey's in a very good position. i don't think either of the speculated candidates would have a chance but for a hillary clinton tidal wave. and, you know, the wild card here is some kind of overwhelming turnout for a hillary clinton candidacy, then

that could threaten toomey, in a manner. >> i just think it's difficult in a presidential year. that is the big turnout. i think turnout absolutely is the big question, and i think the katie mcginty question -- she is being wooed by national democrats, being wooed by local democrats. i think she's about a 50-50. people are sort of saying they think she's sort of leaning -- people think that she's leaning, but she hasn't made the decision yet. and then there are people who are also floating the name of state senator vincent hughes. there's a lot of sense that there may be an opportunity here. we just don't have the right candidate yet. so, it'll be interesting to see whether or not people think that, you know, they honestly believe that, for some reason, joe sestak, at least with the established democrats, don't believe he's the candidate whether or not they're gonna come up with someone else. >> just a little inside here -- the governor, from what i hear is not thrilled with his chief of staff, putting her toe in the water without his blessing, and especially at such a critical time in his administration, so keep that in mind. >> well, it doesn't say very

much about her, you know? people were criticizing, way way, way back sarah palin for jumping out with 18 months left in her gubernatorial position, you know? katie mcginty's been there for just a few months, and what does that say about her -- her... >> dedication? >> yeah. thank you. >> there are no budget negotiations to go to. >> exactly. >> right. >> we'll just leave it at that. >> she's done everything she can right now. >> inside stories of the week, coming your way next. a newspaper editorial calls the budget

passed by the legislature "fantasyland" it lets oil and gas drillers off the hook. fails to fund education. and deepens the deficit. it's a "political stunt that deserves the governor's veto." but governor wolf is fighting for a middle-class budget that lowers property taxes. and makes oil and gas companies pay up to fund our schools. tell the legislature to get serious and pass a real budget. thanks for coming to movie night. yeah, of course, so fun. so fun, right. yeah. i'm gonna go check. ok. well? we're all the way up to 4%. that's great! yeah. i could do this all night. i'm just gonna go check again. ok. leave slow downloads behind. 100% fiber optics is here. rashida? get out of the past. get fios. rashida? call the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 800.974.6006 tty/v

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. temple fuels students with academics and opportunities to take charge. plugged in to the city, powered by the world. temple.edu/takecharge. >> time for inside stories of the week. let's start with val. >> thanks, monica. well, with the number of credible republican candidates for president in the race, it looks like pennsylvania might be in play in april, which usually isn't the case when we do our primary. republican leaders recently met with marco rubio here in southeastern pennsylvania -- were wildly impressed with him.

and our republican national committee man, bob asher, and others, including me, are gonna get together and do a series of fundraisers for him in october. we feel that he may be the best candidate to reach out to a new demographic. >> okay. sharmain? >> yes, monica. we've been talking a lot about the criminal-justice system, and, certainly, we have a lot of work to do, but we know that prevention is worth a pound of cure. you can begin that prevention right in your own community by hiring a teen this summer. there are still teens that are looking for jobs. call me -- 215-851-1701. >> all right. christine? >> monica, the controversy that erupted last month when my alma mater, waldron mercy academy fired or discontinued the employment of a married lesbian religion teacher continues. the website of the school was recently hacked. obscene messages and photos were placed on the website. i think those who oppose the administration need to go back to school and learn about tolerance. >> all right, pedro. we want to say congratulations before your story because you were named president and c.e.o. of the philadelphia foundation -- quite an honor. we're excited for you. >> thank you very much.

i want to give a congratulations to the four young women who won the gsk opportunity scholarship and are enrolling at west chester university in the fall. >> terrific. glad to have them, and to you. all right. that's "inside story" for this week. i hope you have a terrific ahead. i'm monica malpass. for all our panelists, thank you, as well. we'll see you right back here next sunday morning. >> i'm nydia han along with eva pilgrim. next only "action news," an early-morning fire forced residents out of south philadelphia is considered suspicious we're live with the latest. oppressive heat is smothering the area and it could stay for part of the week. >> the family of the shooter who killed five military in tennessee says their son was suffering mental illness.

those stories and more on "action news." come to sesame place before little kids become big kids. and celebrate our 35th birthday

with our new neighborhood birthday party parade. get unlimited visits with a season pass for 6 payments as low as $18.50 sesame place. ♪ go before they grow. ♪ >> good afternoon, it is sunday july 19 i'm in an anyone along with eva pilgrim. here's some of the stories we're following on "action news," dozens of firefighters battle flames and oppressive heat in south philadelphia in a blaze now called suspicious. new leaks from sworn