>> it's looking more and more like katie mcginty is getting into the race for senate. what are her chances? let's get the inside story. ♪♪ good morning, and welcome to "inside story." i'm tamala edwards. let's introduce you to the panel. first up, foreign affairs expert ed turzanski. >> good morning. >> pollster terry madonna. >> tam. >> law professor jan ting. >> good morning. >> and we are lucky to have for his inaugural visit, public affairs strategist doug oliver. welcome to the panel. >> thanks for having me. >> all right, so, we want to dig into katie mcginty. for days, there's been talk would she, would she not step down as wolf's chief of staff and run for the senate. she stepped down. she's made statements. it sounds like she's going to do this thing. but there are a lot of questions. terry, i'll start with you. is this a smart choice on her part? >> well, she has the disease for which there's no known cure. it's called "once you run for office, you run for another office." i'll look over here across the table here.

and the fact is, she has been the most visible chief of staff in modern history. she has done more radio, television appearances, and interviews in six months than any chief of staff i've known in 40 years in a four-year -- in a four-year situation in one term. she's very serious about it. she went to a meeting of democrats in new york where -- you know, democratic senatorial campaign committee. she has been beseeched by democrats who obviously -- most party leaders in this state -- or i'll say "many" -- don't want joe sestak. they have been searching for a candidate. they went through a variety of people, including montgomery county commissioner josh shapiro. they are trying to find a candidate, and it's obvious you don't resign a position if you're just thinking about it. the announcement will be -- is imminent. >> there are two ways to look at this. let's start with the money. she, first of all, faces sestak. he's got almost $2 million on hand. and then she would face

pat toomey, who's sitting at over $8 million. he's got ads up all the time. doug, you've run for office. you know the money race. what does this mean for her, in a matter of months, to try to get in there and turn this thing around? >> well, i think, number one, to answer the question of if it's smart or not, is if she wants to do it. if she wants to do it, she believes she has ideas, she believes she can do a better job, then she should do it. i agree. i don't think she stepped down because she likes to be unemployed. i think she stepped down for a reason, and we can expect that coming soon. i think she also knows that she has to play two perfect hands. obviously, the general election will be a different ballgame but in the primary, she's running against a guy who, while has his own quirks... >> yeah. >> ...he's seasoned. and he's got the ability to raise money, and it'll be a tough hand for her. but if she wants to do it, i think she should do it. and that by itself makes it smart. >> guys, let's talk about this. this state has a not-so-great history when it comes to women running and winning statewide office. it's almost like a curse. is she the one who can break it? >> i think she's going to --

first of all, no one can blame katie mcginty for jumping in here. if the window opens up, you can run for a united states senate seat, you've got to do it. i think she's gonna have some success in raising money. as terry was saying earlier, the democrats have to win this seat if they're gonna get a majority in the u.s. senate, so the money is gonna come in from the democratic senate campaign committee. and emily's list has already indicated that they're gonna be strongly supportive of this woman candidate. and so, she's in the right place at the right time. i don't know that she can raise pat toomey money, but i think she can raise joe sestak money absolutely. so, she's gonna be competitive in the primary. the problem is, she's gonna probably have to spend a lot of that money in the primary to win. she's gonna go into the general against senator toomey really underfunded. so, you know, i'm not overly optimistic about her chances of winning. but it's a race that she should make, it's a race that she's gonna make, and it's a race in which she's gonna be competitive. >> you know, ed, one thing that could be interesting is -- and

it's looking like it's gonna happen -- at this particular moment, hillary at the top of the ticket. does that make a difference for her? >> oh, it could make a difference. but i'm not sure you can predict at this point whether it's gonna be a good one or a bad one. because hillary clinton is experiencing her own difficulties right now. and there are great -- there's a great deal of concern on the democratic side of the aisle because they don't like what they see in her rollout, how she's managing herself. i want to pick up something that jan said, though. this is the bill clinton lesson. bill clinton, when he ran against george h.w. bush, the father had a 92% approval rating coming out of the gulf war, and democrats were saying, "no thank you." and bill clinton said, "i'll do it." turned out to be a very good move on his part. so, no guts, no glory. that's the first point. the second thing -- it'll be very interesting to see how joe sestak goes after her. >> ah.

>> this will be some very interesting opposition research that the toomey people will be waiting for because she, as terry said, was not only a very visible chief of staff, she has said some things that didn't quite turn out to be accurate -- >> she's angered republicans in ways that normally staff people who work for a governor would not do. she's been very critical of republicans. but the gender thing is gonna be a huge issue. i think we had kathleen kane win. she lead the ticket. won by 13 percentage points. got more votes in this state than barack obama and bob casey, both of whom carried the state won re-election. gender's gonna be a big issue. but i agree. this could go either way. a lot of women voters down here in the southeastern part of the state and up in the lehigh valley, gender -- and hillary's already using gender as part of the campaign. >> by the way, here's a question. does the lack of a budget --

>> we're gonna get to that in a moment. >> but does that touch her in some way? >> well, you know, they're saying that it's an interesting process, number one, with people at the top, with governor wolf and others. and they're making noise like they will have something shortly. we'll see. we will get to that in a minute. last question on mcginty. john baer, in a great column in the inquirer pointed out something that's got to be at the back of her mind. she ran for governor, got 7%. if she runs and she loses, especially if she loses badly, does that attach the sticker "loser" to her? you got to be careful about this shot. is that something she should be thinking about? >> not at all. not at all. she's got a shot at a united states senate seat. it's a real shot, you know. there are things that are lining up in her favor. again, she's not anything close to a sure thing. toomey has to be favored to hold the seat. but she has to take this shot. you know, as ed was saying, you know, if you pass on the shot, you're not a player. >> i think tam's asking a different question.

it's... >> it's if she doesn't win, has she closed the door? >> are you tagged? >> i don't believe so at all. it is not the critic who counts. i believe that, if she runs and she loses, then she just lost. now, sestak ran and lost. so if he loses again, is he a loser? [ laughter ] it's the same question. >> but people are all running from him. >> all right, katie, the insiders seem to be saying "don't bar the door." all right, let's take a look at what's going on with the state party. jim burns saying he's going to step down, but there was a lot of conversation. wolf wanted him to step aside and install mcginty as the head of the state party. he said no. he created a pac and put mcginty at the head of that. so now it looks like he's won this battle. is this just inside baseball -- it doesn't matter? or does it makes a difference? >> very few people care, really, about who the chairman of either party is. and i don't want to demean the job. it's an important position. campaigns are now run by operatives who work for candidates. the polling's done that way. the fundraising's done that way. the party chair is important. you still have an organizational

structure. but this isn't 30 or 40 years ago. it's a totally new environment. here's the takeaway, in my humble judgment. governors get to pick the state chairs. and to quote, this was coming. >> if anything, this is belated recognition of the unspoken rule that the governor is the leader of his state party. that's always the case, and the state party is powerless without the support of the governor of that party. >> let's talk a little bit about the governor, after him saying no-go on the republican's budget. this week, they've had some closed-door meetings, a four-hour meeting in harrisburg. and both sides came out making noises like we made a little bit of progress. how far off are we from actually -- >> very, very far. we're looking at mid-september. here's the difference in past. 2009 -- 27,000 state employees are out of work. there were, you know, "rent rebate checks. where are they?" driver's license -- "well, i got to get my driver's license renewed. where are the people that do it?"

the fact of the matter is there's no consequence right now. a supreme court decision in 2009 made it clear that workers have to be paid. so the state's functioning. yeah, non-profits will start to lose money. county, human services will be hurt. if you have a contract with the state, at some point, you're not going to get paid. but the fact of the matter is, without any consequence, given the polls, given the ideological divisions, this is going to go on mid-september at the earliest. >> and what's worse is that, when we talk about there not being any consequences, no consequence for the elected officials. there's real consequences for the people who don't get funding for their schools or for the social safety net that deteriorates because there's not full funding. >> at some point. >> and even small businesses that have cash-flow issues and they're contractors for the state, there are real consequences for them that our elected officials don't necessarily feel. >> another question about consequences. the governor said something interesting in a radio interview where he said he thought he was being tested by the republicans. like, he thinks this is a -- you know, i thought, "does he think

this is a game of chicken, and 'you're not getting me off the road. i don't care'"? is there an element of that? >> katie mcginty's departure as chief of staff cannot make this situation worse because the situation kind of is bad as it can get. ironically, everyone can see the compromise that's gonna have to be reached. i mean, everyone can see there's gonna have to be a severance tax, 'cause that's what the governor ran on. so he can't make a deal without a severance tax. and everyone can see that there's got to be pension reform because that's the republican's number-one thing, and it would be good for the state and good for the state's future to have pension reform. once you've got those two pieces in place, then the rest of it is all details. >> but the challenge is that the governor has put himself so far out with this entire menu of taxation that he has. and it's very transformational. it's very revolutionary. he can't cave quickly. so i think terry's right.

i think this is a dance that will go a long time. >> speaking of dances and backs and forths, jan, i'm gonna start with you on this one. bill cosby back in the news this week as 1,000 pages from a deposition came out. and it was not looking good for cosby, some of the things he had to say. his lawyers came back fighting back. first of all, saying that the paperwork should not have come out, that they want to sanction the woman in question and her lawyer. and then doing something we hadn't seen before -- arguing that what he said wasn't that bad. all he admitted to, in their opinion, was using drugs that everybody used, that he didn't say he raped anybody or gave them the drugs without their knowledge. first up, what's the legal implication here? are they just making noise, or are they really trying to make some headway here? >> well, i think there are legal issues. grand jury -- sequestered grand jury information should not be leaked out. but as terry was saying earlier, it leaks out all the time, and we can all point to 50 different examples of grand jury information being leaked out. there's a lot of great stuff

going on at temple, but this ongoing involvement in the cosby case is not one of them. it's a real dilemma for temple. the chairman of the board, patrick o'connor, probably in retrospect regrets having represented cosby back in 2005 when there was litigation between cosby and a former temple employee. it seems, in retrospect, that there was a conflict of interest now. but now it's too late. you know, he's involved in the case. he's representing cosby in all these contentious issues that you've referred to. and either temple is gonna lose a great board chairman who's made enormous contributions to temple and is a great leader -- we're either gonna lose him, or we're gonna have this ongoing, roiling dispute with no end about the cosby case and all these leaked disclosures. >> 'cause this looks like it's going to go on for quite a while. >> it's a no-win situation for temple. >> now, let's talk about some of the things that the lawyers said, that case that they're trying to make. "disco biscuits" is what they

call quaaludes. and they're trying to make the argument everybody was doing it back in the '70s. "a," is that a good argument and "b," why now? why didn't they make that argument six, seven months ago when this stuff really first started to pop? >> i don't think it's a good argument, but i do think it is a legitimate one. i do think that the fact -- you know, i could never get away telling my mom, "well, everybody else did it." "but you shouldn't have." and so, i do think that the context is important. and for me, the seminal issue is was it consensual or not. because lots of people smoke weed. lots of people drink. lots of people use ecstasy and other drugs, and the law would say that's illegal. you can't do those things. but everyone's doing it and as long as two adults have consented to it and they both agree to it, that's one outcome. you may not like the outcome. you may regret the decision. but at least it was consensual. in this case, i think that's a legitimate discussion to have. i do want to say, though, for the board, though, this conflict of interest that's there is a real one, and the only way to eliminate the conflict is to remove one of them. so either you can't represent the client or you have to step

down from the board. i'll close with this. this sort of issue of conflict is all over the place. it's not just with temple university. it's on boards everywhere. and i think we're starting to cherry-pick because we know the seedy details of what the conflict is. >> here's the point on board representation. we're all on boards, right? >> mm-hmm. >> you're there for a reason. you bring a certain skill set. you bring certain resources to the benefit of the organization. o'connor did tell the rest of the board that he was doing this. the rest of the board soberly looked at this and said, "we've got a whole host of bad choices ahead of us. what's the least bad choice that we could make?" it's for pat o'connor to do this. i think he acquitted himself admirably, and this question of disclosing something that's supposed to be a sealed agreement is a serious one. people should pay a price when they do that because, if you can get away with this, then the law

means nothing, then, in every circumstance. >> i imagine we will be coming back to this topic multiple times over the coming months. we will take a short break and come back to "inside story." >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. temple fuels students with academics and opportunities to take charge. plugged into the city, powered by the world. temple.edu/takecharge.

♪♪

>> welcome back to "inside story." i'm tamala edwards. you know, the situation at waldron mercy, where they let go of an administrator because she was married to another woman, continues to roil. we've heard from the archbishop, we've heard from the school, and now we've heard from sister mary scullion, who's very well respected in this town, a nun herself. and she's written an op-ed in the inquirer and it contains this line. "church at its best" -- "is at its best when it listens to the spirit speaking in our time." and she says it is speaking through the parents and students who say this was the wrong thing to do. it's speaking through the pope who has been a little bit more open-minded and embracing. and it turns up the burn, it seems, for the school, in terms of not being able to put it behind it, this issue. what does this add? where does this go for waldron mercy in terms of sticking with this decision or going back on it? >> i think it's an unfortunate issue to arise on the eve of the pope's visit. if the pope holds press conferences in philadelphia, he's certainly gonna be asked about it and be put on the spot on an issue that he may not be ready to deal with.

sister mary scullion is a member of the religious order that directs the -- the waldron mercy academy. so she is very familiar with what's going on there. it's not her alone. it's a number of catholic leaders who have signed on to this protest. and basically, they're saying there's a conflict here between doctrine and listening to what's happening in society. and they would prefer that the church paid more attention to listening what's happening in society than being frozen in past doctrine. >> will the issue here end up being something like this, or the fact that you have a lot of parents who say that they are not happy with what has gone on, they're not satisfied with the answers, and they're holding back on their tuition and other funds? you know, a number of people who may have a lot of money to give are saying, "we don't know." >> i think that -- i certainly understand the desire of an organization to protect its mission, what it believes its mission is, and its vision. but that sometimes runs afoul of

the way society moves, and i think this is an unfortunate situation here. sister mary scullion is not alone. but neither is the teacher who was fired, and there's lots of people who understand it from both sides. there was another mission and vision that got it wrong, and that was called the constitution. it was wrong, and then it was eventually amended because it was recognized that something had to change. and if we can get a constitutional amendment through, i think we can figure something out over there at mercy. >> yeah, this is just the beginning of what's going to be a series. look, the public attitudes on gay marriage have changed markedly, as my poll and every other poll in the country has shown. and when you talk about 18- to 29-year-olds, we're talking about 80% -- 80% -- in favor of gay marriage. this conflict between religion on the one hand and secular society -- i'll put it that way -- is just beginning. we're gonna see this in so many areas of our life for the next 30 years. >> let's keep in mind that marriage is one of the seven

sacraments of the roman catholic church. it is a sacrament. it's not some casual social convention. it's not that the church is saying that civil government cannot have gay marriage if it wants to. it's says, "if you're going to teach -- if you have the magisterium, the teaching authority of the church, and in your life it's clear that you do not accept what the church teaches on marriage, you shouldn't be teaching about marriage. now, you can do other things." and it's not that the church is out to purge itself of people who may be gay and have civil arrangements. but when it comes to teaching about marriage, one of the seven sacraments, they do have a right. this isn't a minor issue for the church. and -- >> but shouldn't they have made these decision long before they hired her and elevated her to this position? >> there's no doubt. this goes back to the very decision to hire.

but it may not have been on the radar screen of the archbishop. now that it is -- >> yeah, but see, that's the whole point about these institutions. i mean, you could make an argument that, in secular society, it's recognized, it's legal, everybody has to understand that. but where are the niches, if you will, where a religion, let's say, and their practices reign meaning that they stand? you have to, in a sense, recognize them out in the secular world, but not in -- basically what you're saying. you're the lawyer. >> and i think lawyers will be busy on this for a while. >> the significance of this op-ed that sister mary scullion signed is a demonstration that there is a strong countervailing viewpoint within the church. and so, there's not unanimity within the church, even on this issue. >> i don't think we're talking about the same thing, though. >> well, we have to talk about something else real quickly. we can talk about this. i'm sure we'll come back as they

continue to work it out. l&i got a little flak this week because they paid $15,000 for advertorials -- things that are advertisements, but they're built to look like stories -- on philly.com, trying to say, "look, we're turning it around. things are for the better." the city not backing away, saying, "hey, we want people to hear the good news." but for an agency, it does have a $31 million budget. was it a worthwhile expenditure out of that budget for these ads? >> no. >> it was ridiculous. >> no, no. i don't think that's what we expect government to do. and that's not the role that government should play. and i won't get into the fact that the state has a $1.4 -- you can pick the figure. we can't get it straight, they can't get it straight in harrisburg -- a $1.2 billion structural deficit. >> it's not as though the schools couldn't use another $15,000 of taxpayer money. and melissa murray bailey, the republican candidate for mayor has said the leadership resigned, carlton williams who's head of l&i. and jim kenney, the democratic candidate for mayor, has said he

will not be the head of l&i. >> i see it a little differently, though. >> but you'll have to tell me during the break. we got to go to commercial. we'll come back to our insiders' inside stories. ♪♪

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. temple fuels students with academics and opportunities to take charge. plugged into the city, powered by the world. temple.edu/takecharge. >> welcome back. terry, your inside story. >> attorney general kathleen kane -- attorney general kathleen kane has said that she will not resign if prosecuted for the grand jury leaks. but the supreme court could suspend her license. i wonder then if she could still stay as attorney general. >> interesting. ed? >> jim foster is a newspaper publisher from the germantown section of the city. he thinks he's gonna get into the mayoral race. it looks like he'll be in. he's gonna run as an

independent. he'll be a long shot. jim kenney, the democrat appears to be the odds-on favorite. they're both le salle college graduates -- now le salle university -- as is your humble servant. >> [ laughs ] >> explorers are everywhere. >> all right. doug? >> indeed we are. i join you as well. pennsylvania primary's 10 months away. pennsylvania's largely seen as a clinton state. but bernie sanders is already reaching out to millennials with a conference call coming up on the 29th, where he's pitching himself and trying to build support for pennsylvania primary. i don't think folks are gonna let it go easy. >> all right, we'll see. jan? >> melissa murray bailey, the republican candidate for mayor is giving people reasons to vote for her. and she says she will repeal mayor nutter's sanctuary cities policy of non-cooperation with the federal immigration law. and congress is trying to cut funding to sanctuary cities like philadelphia. jim kenney says he'll double down on the policy and maintain

it. a clear choice in the mayoral race in philadelphia. >> all right, thanks to all of you. thanks to you for watching. it's been great to be your host. i'm tamala edwards. this is "inside story." we'll see you next week. ♪♪ >> i'm eva pilgrim along with alicia vitarelli. >> coming up on "action news," the search is on for a man who stabbed a woman and her 21 34-8d 34-8d ---month-old child. >> it's christmas in july for local kids in the hospital. we'll have those stories and more next on "action news."

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>> glarch, sunday -- good afternoon, sunday, july 26 nydia is off, alicia vitarelli joins us. >> here's some of the stories we're following organ "action news," terrifying moments for two drugstore workers as they were tied up in a