>> new poll numbers show some surprising trends when it comes to the fight over the pennsylvania state budget, and also on people feel about kathleen kane. let's get the inside story. ♪ good morning, and welcome to "inside story." i'm tamala edwards. and i am joined this morning by our insider terry madonna, the chief pollster for franklin & marshall college. you've got a new poll out that we wanted to dig into, because it's got some surprising information on a number of things. let's start by looking at the fight over the state budget in pennsylvania. we still don't have a budget. you would think that there might be anger at all sides, because all sides have dug in. but it's looking like a win for governor wolf when you look at this, 54% of people blame the legislature, 29% blame the governor. in fact, 66% say people should be hit in the paycheck if they're in the legislature. >> [ laughing ] yeah. >> nobody's talking about the

governor. >> right. >> what does this tell you about where things stand for wolf and his strategy of no give? >> yeah, well, at first standing, when you look at it, you might say, "oh, gee, this is a big surprise," as you point out. but let's think about it this way -- the governor runs for election, he wins by 10 points, and what did he argue he wanted to do, and it was the single most important issue in the campaign? education spending. what else is popular? a shale tax to pay for it. and in the past, when there were budget stalemates, there was real hardship for folks. state workers weren't on the job. back in the rendell years, in one of the standoffs, 27,000 state workers didn't show up. folks weren't getting paid. the folks understood what was going on because they felt it in their pocketbooks at home. the rent-rebate checks, where were they? right now, who's feeling the pain? no one. >> everybody who's got a kid who is going "what the heck is going on in these schools?" >> yeah, but, for the most part,

it's imminent. it's coming. >> mm-hmm. >> at the moment, there's no pain. the governor has a popular agenda. and so the governor will take the hit the first time the pain gets out to the public. so, when you think about it that way, he's got a popular agenda, plus he's been on this p.r. offensive. every week he's out two or three events. and do you cover the local lawmaker or do you cover the governor? >> you cover the governor. >> you cover the governor. >> is part of it also the issue, when people think of pension reform or privatizing state stores, they care a little bit about the state store, but pension reform just seems very wonky. they don't really attach to it. >> you're exactly right. it's distant, it's aloof, it's extraordinarily important to the budget, and to get it right. but the fact of the matter is that -- yeah, and they want liquor privatization, but it doesn't have any intensity to it. >> let's take a look at the race, pat toomey against either sestak or mcginty. >> mm-hmm. >> some good news in this poll for him. >> mm-hmm. >> his numbers have stayed the same since you last checked in

june. about 40% like him. if he was to go up against sestak, a 12-point lead, things not looking that much different against mcginty, what would you say about this race for him? >> well, i think senator toomey's gonna be harder to beat than most people think. first of all, he's not provocative, he's mild-mannered, he comes across as, you know, a kind of guy you could have a nice conversation with. he's not boisterous. he's not outspoken. and that air about him -- that air about him, i think, gives him a sense that the people don't immediately go like this like they do with some politicians. the other point about him is that he and senator casey actually get along pretty well. >> and work pretty well. >> that's exactly right. when's the last time you've seen one criticize the other? >> you don't. >> the thing he has to fear the most is a wave on the democratic side that could have a coattail effect that could damage him. senator toomey is gonna be -- i'm not saying he will win.

he's gonna be tough to beat, and this is gonna be one of the five most watched u.s. senate races in the country. >> he's probably hoping that favorite son joe biden does not end up on a ticket. >> [ laughs ] that's a good point, yeah. >> let's end quickly and talk about kathleen kane. some surprises in these numbers for her, as well. you would think everybody would say she should be out of office, but let's take a look at the numbers. it turns out that, actually, only 46% say that she should resign. more people than not say stick around. 54% of republicans -- you would think all republicans would want her out of there -- and 40% of democrats. what does this tell us? >> well, this is consistent with a quinnipiac poll earlier this past week that had only 49%. no polls that i've seen show a majority of the voters of the state saying, "kathleen kane, resign." i think it's complicated. a lot of the details involved, when we talk about the infamous sting that you all reported down here, the average voter's not paying much attention to it. the pornographic e-mail scandals, well, who does that involve and why? the fact of the matter is that

the attorney general is not on -- you know, is not table-talk conversation in every household. i think as it goes along you might see some changes in those numbers, particularly if there is a trial. we'll have to see if it ends up in trial and what the ramifications of the trial happens to be. but by and large i was surprised by that. i thought it might be 55%, 56% who said -- but the other thing is 40% of democrats, you know, say she should resign. you know what that means. the converse of that is that -- >> most say she should stick around. and only 30% think that there should be an impeachment. so, if i was a legislator, i think i'd say, "i'm staying out of this." >> yeah, well, the prospects of impeachment, i think, are likely to wait until after there's a trial. the last time, you know, there was an impeachment, with a justice named rolf larsen way back, 30 years ago, legislatures not likely were the problems they faced to take up the impeachment of the attorney general. >> they got to work on the budget first. and we got to work on our budget and get some bills paid. we'll be right back with our

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right now, get 25 meg fios internet, tv & phone starting at $79.99 a month, guaranteed for two years. for a limited time get $400 back with a two year agreement. call 888 get fios or go online. get out of the past. get fios. ♪ >> welcome back to "inside story." i'm tamala edwards. let's introduce you to the panel. we've already checked in with terry madonna, pollster. we've also got journalist

harold jackson, attorney val digiorgio, and documentarian sam katz. let's get going on kathleen kane. terry talked about the numbers, which were a bit surprising. we expected that -- we're all watching everything that's going on -- that the average voter out there would say she's done, but it looks like many people as not think she should stick around and keep going. did those numbers surprise you? >> they didn't surprise me. i think that kathleen kane comes across as still a very likeable person, as a vulnerable woman in an environment in which the good old boys rule. and by releasing the e-mails, it sort of supports her argument that, you know, "they're just out to get me because i'm trying to show that they're doing wrong on the job. >> let's talk about the e-mails. now, these e-mails seem to be of a piece of what we saw come out some months ago. just now we've got frank fina and marc costanzo's names attached to them. so, we kind of had a sense of what was gonna be in the e-mail, just the new names. do the e-mails help her? do they bolster her? >> all of this is irrelevant. she's under indictment for

violating the law for releasing grand jury information for political purposes. if a jury finds her guilty, none of that's gonna matter. as far as her reelect possibilities, notwithstanding these numbers, she's toast. unless she's found innocent, and innocent in the way that she has presented her own story. who's gonna give kathleen kane money? the source of her money in her first election divorced her. so, i don't see any resources coming to her. the democrats desperately need to get her off the ticket, because if she's on the ticket, the whole row-office situation -- rob mccord under indictment, state treasurer. only eugene depasquale seems to me to be in good shape for reelection in 2016. i don't think that the public's view of kathleen kane's resignation is relevant to the public's decision about whether she'll be reelected. she will not be. >> let's talk a little bit about fina and costanzo, who are working for seth williams, who's had issues of his own to deal

with, and he's saying he's reviewing this. what should he do? what's the right call here? we saw some people resign, some people get fired when this all came out. what does he do with these two gentlemen? >> well, i guess the answer is it depends on exactly what's happened here. we don't know that -- the e-mails that we read about were pretty salacious. and terry and i were talking about this earlier. it's one thing to receive, terry was saying, and i agree with him -- one thing to receive an e-mail like that. it's another thing entirely to send them out to other people and allow it to keep going. what seth will do, seth williams will do, i don't know. it didn't happen when it worked for them. these are two good, experienced prosecutors. you'd hate to lose them. but on the other hand, it's a tough call for seth williams as to whether to keep them or not. >> you know, sam is really onto something. the democratic party is really in a tough situation here about what to do with her. there isn't any doubt that there are a number of missteps that the attorney general has had that are unrelated to this situation that, politically, you can just see the 30-second commercials.

they'll be devastating. i mean, i think governor wolf has said, you know, "you should resign." in all fairness to the governor, i think he honestly believes she can't do her job and should resign. this drama has a long way to go, and it's gonna be curious to see if the e-mails do what the previous e-mail circulation did, literally cost people their jobs and their careers. >> well, you and i were talking about this before the show started, because there are two things from her own metrics. she has promoted and given a raise to somebody who was caught up in this, who had a 10-day suspension, which he didn't even have to serve 10 full days. he could take them, i guess, at leisure. and also patrick reese, who was indicted for obstruction -- contempt. he's still in the office, the chief of staff ruling, "well, he can stick around." well, if she's allowing that to go on, can seth williams say, "well, i don't have to get rid of these guys. she's not getting rid of those guys"? >> they both have the same problem here, and they're both politicians, so it's more of a political problem than it is an office problem. you know, she is standing by her guys because that reflects on

her and her position of innocence, or her profession of being innocent. the same thing with seth. now, he's brought these people into his office. he said, "they're outstanding, upstanding guys. i support them 100%." and now it will be difficult for him politically to say, "oh, i was wrong." >> but what happens to him politically if he keeps them, and somebody runs and says, "this is who seth williams decided to keep in his office"? >> it's a calculation as to "which would be more damaging to me? to keep them or to let them go?" i think that he's probably gonna decide that "it's best for me to stand by my guns. i said these guys are outstanding, upstanding investigators. kathleen kane has an agenda, and i'm not gonna pursue that course." >> kathleen kane's story, from almost the beginning, is the -- could be such a great television show. i mean, she wakes up in the morning to complain to harold jackson about the way the inquirer editorial board is treating her, demands a meeting, comes into the meeting, and brings a lawyer who instructs her not to speak. i've had complaints myself with the inquirer editorial board on

occasion, but i want to go there and i want to have that conversation. until the release of these pornographic e-mails, or e-mails about pornography, kathleen kane hasn't had a good day. and most of them are self-inflicted. so, when you think about, "well, how will she stand for reelection? what kind of candidate skills will she bring to that job?" when you watch her over the course of the last two years, it's unbelievable what she's done to herself. >> and, of course, a conduct that would've made nixon blush. >> [ laughs ] wow. >> you know, tailing and -- well, you know, it's an enemies list, it's spying on your enemies, and even judges -- has been alleged. we don't know that that's true. and using her office for political purposes, and on and on. really, it's nixonian in the extreme. >> not all the e-mails have been released. remember, she's fighting requests from the philadelphia inquirer and the pittsburgh tribune to get e-mails and -- >> we'll see whose names are attached to those. >> see, that's -- yeah. who's involved. and they're very selective. the original e-mail release had

eight individuals involved, all connected to fina or to governor corbett. >> let's change course a little bit and talk about chaka fattah, who -- prosecutors came out this week and said he's making videos, he's talking to reporters, he's saying nice things about himself -- how dare he do that? -- and said that he's trying to tamper with the jury poll. do they have a leg to stand on this, or -- it's a first amendment issue. he has a right to tout his accomplishments. >> certainly. as a congressman, we expect him to let us know what he's doing, what he's doing for the good of the public. and, you know, chaka fattah is a very popular person in philadelphia still, despite the charges against him. i don't know that it would result in -- i didn't think it would result in accusations of jury tampering, but, i mean, this is what he is. if he did not put out any more releases, he still would be held in high esteem in philadelphia, especially among his constituency in that district. >> the trial has been set for next spring, sam, and we now have a list of who it looks like the government and fattah will be calling on as witnesses. it's a pretty high-profile list. i mean, it's looking like this

could be a blockbuster trial. >> well, this is -- this whole story has been going on for years, and this is an opportunity for the government to take down a very high-profile, high-powered guy who has also inflicted, if the story is true, much of his problems on himself. the 19-- or the 2007 mayoral campaign, with its campaign-finance limits, created a lot of distress for the "fattah for mayor" campaign, which, if this is true, they found a way out by violating the alaw. but fattah is going to have very little resources for reelection. he's gonna spend an enormous amount of money on legal preparation, much of which is coming out of his campaign fund. and i think a quality african-american candidate running against him in the primary could defeat him. and it's obvious that the trial was postponed till after the primary, but his political future, i think, could be very much in doubt if somebody rises up and seizes the opportunity to

take him on. >> that's the big question -- who would that be? >> well, i have some ideas about that. >> oh, do you? anything you'd like to announce here? >> i've tried to encourage kellan white, who's a very young guy, he's 29 years old. he's the son of john white jr. and the grandson of john white sr. he has incredible political pedigree. he works for blondell reynolds brown. he's the leader of the democratic leadership council, which is young democrats. and this is the only seat in pennsylvania which is an african-american seat. >> do you think he's listening? >> well, i hope so. [ laughter ] not many people listen to me when it comes to politics, and maybe for good reason. >> well, we'll see if he follows up on that. val, david oh, a republican in the city, got in trouble. it looked as though he was steering money in a way to get around campaign rules. and it just sort of adds on. as we're talking about chaka fattah, we're talking about david oh -- is there getting to be a point in the city where people are shocked anymore, or they've kind of given up? like, you just sort of feel like, "yeah." >> yeah. >> i made this argument the last time i was on "inside story."

i grew up in south philly. and, like i said, my councilman went to jail, a congressman went to jail, another councilman went to jail, a state senator went to jail, and on and on, and the people never seemed to want to switch horses or change parties or give someone else a chance. i think philadelphia's been desensitized to corruption for a couple generations, now. and this is nothing new. when you have one party rule, you get arrogance, and arrogance is what breeds this kind of thing. i think no one's immune to it, republican or democrat. i will say that. but that's what you see in philadelphia, and i think people have become desensitized to it. >> terry, let's talk a little bit about polling again. or, not necessarily about polling, but numbers. joe biden, who has admitted he's still in a bad place, as one might imagine, after the death of his son, but trying to decide whether or not to get into the democratic race for the nomination next year. this number stood out to me. of the 770 people who were bundlers, the people who put together the big checks for a campaign, only 52 have signed up as hillblazers. if you were talking to joe biden, it seems to me that you'd be saying that's a lot of folks with a lot of money who

clearly are just waiting. >> yeah. well, look, let's be candid about this. joe biden is waiting in the wings to see if hillary clinton's campaign continues to disintegrate. if it disintegrates, he's in. he met with close advisors, he met with elizabeth warren, creating a lot of speculation. biden for president, warren for vice president. we had that once before, with ronald reagan and a pennsylvania senator named dick schwieker. didn't go so well. but the point is that i think if her campaign continues to have its problems, we could see him run. the problem is that she has so much money, and she still has -- >> $47 million. >> ...the infrastructure within the party, the so-called clinton machine, and joe biden has not been the most sterling candidate in the past. the '88 run, you know, he had to get out of the race because of the question of whether he plagiarized the speech from a british labor leader. he did. and then what he did in '08. not exactly the best campaigns. so you've got all of those considerations going on. but i think, given the right set

of circumstances, he will run. >> let's talk about this, because this happened this week. a manhattan assemblywoman, deborah glick, sent out a tweet saying, "has everyone forgiven and forgotten the joe biden/anita hill sexual harassment debacle?" and it said -- i was like, "whoa, wouldn't you wait till the guy formally announced?" you know, we watched the republicans having a tough time, duking it out. could this likely turn into a really ugly scene for the democrats as well before it's over? >> well, hillary has a lot of baggage. joe biden has a lot of baggage, too. right now, i think the speculation that joe biden will be a candidate actually helps hillary clinton. i mean, right now, we're not saying much about her -- her -- barry, who is running against her. you know, barry -- bernie sanders. yeah. i mean, he was taking up a lot of the news, you know, had large crowds coming to see him. this past week, nobody was talking about bernie sanders. >> but nobody's talking about anybody but donald trump. >> there's an underlying story here, though... >> they're still talking about the e-mail server, though. >> that's true. >> ...that no one's covering,

which is hillary's clearly damaged. she's the subject of an fbi investigation. and there's no one else to run. but barack obama has so thoroughly devastated the democratic party -- they lose -- you know, go from 28 governors down to 18, they lose 64 congressmen, 13 senators. there is no farm team. there's no one to run. so we're looking at the oldest vice president -- the vice president who would be the oldest president in the country ever in history if he's elected and a socialist as alternatives to hillary clinton because there is no farm team. on the republican side, by contrast, we got 17, 18 people running. we have diversity. we have -- >> but is that obama's fault, or is it the fault of -- she was such a dinosaur -- she was a t. rex out there -- that everybody who would've run said, "i'm just gonna keep my powder dry for four years"? >> i agree with you. i don't think that there is not a farm team, it's that the farm team decided "this is one we're going to sit out." >> the demographics in the country -- there's a great article this past week. george will wrote it. i'm not sure everybody wants to read him. but the article goes on to say the percentage of white voters

has declined in the country precipitously in every four-year cycle. and for a republican candidate to win the presidency without latino and asian-american voters, which this immigration story and message is absolutely devastating to, is inconceivable. so, if you look at how poorly mitt romney did among non-white voters, which have now become a larger percentage of the national electorate, you see this extraordinary erosion. and this message that trump is now leading the charge on, that everyone that comes across the border is a criminal, we're gonna just pick the good ones and let them come back, this is so ridiculous. and it's so un-american, and so inappropriate to the future of the country, which was built by immigrants, and particularly our city, i think they're damaging themselves. and i think the opportunity for a republican to win, particularly a republican that can appeal to latino voters,

against hillary clinton was pretty good. >> but, val, i'm sure you want to -- you had some things to say earlier, when we were off camera, that trump doesn't worry you. >> i don't think he'll be the nominee at the end of the day. i think what will happen is the field will winnow down. i like kasich and rubio. i'm actually with rubio. i'm hosting an event for him in october. i think rubio especially can reach out to two new demographics, which are latinos, and also to the millennials. i'm involved, and my wife, who's from honduras, involved in an effort to organize, at least this half of the state, for latinos for the republican candidate. we're in 12 counties. we're reaching out to people. we already have over a couple dozen people who've signed on. many of the mare democrats that help us with this effort. 'cause latinos are hardworking, they come here for opportunity, and we're the party with the opportunity message, we feel. so, that's what underlying this. i don't think trump will last. he'll be in this for a while, but ultimately we'll get behind a candidate who's got a message more along the lines of what

sam was saying. >> yeah, without getting too much into the detail -- >> 'cause you got 10 seconds. >> this presidential election is gonna be different. it's gonna be much more about getting each other's party's base voters out than it is about going after independent voters. and there you got to find a way, both parties, to do that. >> all right. well, we'll take a short break, and we'll come back to our insiders' inside stories of the week. ♪ "many patients and their doctors unfortunately are

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♪ >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. temple fuels students with academics and opportunities to take charge. plugged into the city, powered by the world. temple.edu/takecharge. >> welcome back. time now for our insiders' inside stories of the week. we'll start with you, terry. >> talking about budgets, the house democratic caucus has been meeting with the state treasurer's office. they're running out of money. they might not be able to pay their own employees at the end of september without an infusion of cash. >> harold. >> the inside story for me is

the feud between city council president darrell clarke and bill hite, the superintendent of education of city schools. there's a story in the inquirer today, clarke questioning hite's hiring of some new administrative staff. this is an administrative staff that was cut to the bone. hite didn't have enough people to actually serve the schools well. and the only reason, in my estimation -- one of the only reasons that clarke is criticizing him is because they don't like each other. >> ah. val. >> well, kudos to chester county sheriff bunny welsh and her staff for keeping our courthouse safe this week when a knife-wielding attacker came into the courthouse. sheriff welsh expressed sadness not just for the injured deputy sheriff and the shooting deputy sheriff, but also for the attacker, who's now dead. same man who stormed the white house fence in march and clearly needed some mental help and didn't get it. and it's just another evidence of how we're failing in society to bring help to people who really need it. >> sam. >> the arrival of pope francis in philadelphia is going to truly be one of the great experiences the city has ever,

ever had. and the fact that we are seeming to turn it into the bicentennial is a real shock to me. everybody should come out and see this man, and everyone should feel good about the preparations that have been made for his safety and for their safety. and the logistics are going to be fine. this is going to be a fabulous experience for all of us. >> hopefully all those septa passes will get used. thank you to all of you. thank you for joining us. i'm tamala edwards. this has been "inside story." >> i'm nydia han along with eva pilgrim. next on "action news," a man is in custody and a police officer recovers after a shooting in delaware county. a man is dead and his wife is hurt after being hurt in a crash by a drunk driver. >> the search is on in philadelphia for a 5-year-old. those stories and more insect on "action news." >> good afternoon, it is

sunday, august 30, i'm nydia han along with eva pilgrim. here's some of the stories we're following on "action news," delaware county police officer is hospitalized after being shot at an early morning call at an apartment. >> vice president joe biden makes a surprise visit with delaware democrats and sets off speculation about a 2016 rub for