>> the syrian refugees -- should the u.s. continue to help? "inside story" starts right now. ♪ good morning, everyone. i'm matt o'donnell. it is sunday, november 22, 2015, and thanks for watching "inside story." let's meet our panelists of the week. we have larry platt, journalist. good morning, larry. >> good morning. >> ed turzanski of the foreign policy research institute. good morning, ed. >> matt. >> inquirer editorial page editor harold jackson. good morning, harold. >> morning, matt. >> and renee amoore, g.o.p. state official. >> good morning, renee. >> hey, matt. >> all right, so two out of the three governors in our area would welcome more syrian refugees into their respective states. pennsylvania governor wolf and delaware governor markell made the announcement right after the paris attacks. wolf pointed out that we are rescuing syrians who face violence just like what happened in paris and beirut this month.

governor christie of new jersey, though, says the u.s. should not accept any more refugees, not even orphans, and when it comes to the opinion of governors nationwide, christie's in the majority, it seems, right now. so, ed, you're our foreign policy analyst. what do you think about this? >> well, this is an emotionally vexing issue, but given the nature of the paris attack, given what we know, not from partisan sources, but from the director of national intelligence and the fbi director about the inability to properly vet the refugees and what isis has declared as an intent and has been doing relative to those refugees to send in -- and i'm not wont to do this, but donald trump used the term "trojan horse." there's some validity to that position. it makes sense to take a pause and to study the issue more

to try to go through all of your procedures because the administration keeps on saying, "our procedures are perfect," yet the fbi has a thousand probes open of isis sympathizers, and we're finding large numbers of refugees who are admitted -- somalis in minnesota who have gone to fight for isis and inexplicably have been allowed to come home. this is a very serious matter, and if we don't take proper caution now, you can destroy the consensus of the american public to want to be welcoming to refugees for the long-term. >> so i think you're right. this is a difficult issue. you know, it was october 21st, before paris, when fbi director comey testified and said, "we can't really say with any certainty who these people are in syria because there's no terrorism database or

criminal database in syria." so it's a little different than iraq, for example. so, but what bothers me is the xenophobia that has come about. i thought the chris christie remarks were particularly egregious, and the mayor of virginia who said some terrible things. that's disturbing. we have to be practical about this. i thought andrew cuomo had it right, which is, he talked about the need to be compassionate, the need to ultimately find a way to admit refugees, but to also figure out ways to do this safely and smartly, and i think that balance is the way we have to go, and i thought harold had a terrific column in friday's paper that laid out the moral imperative to allowing refugees in. >> why don't you explain where you stand there? >> well, exactly right. i agree with all of you to some

degree. i think there's a lot of misinformation about the process of resettling refugees in the united states. if we just follow routine procedures, it takes from two to three years before a refugee can be resettled in the united states. it is not a process that's taken lightly. can it be perfect? i think we had the other day that one of the politicians said, "we need a perfect process" -- congressman norcross of new jersey. nothing is perfect. of course you cannot make it completely failsafe, but it is a very good system that exists now. the column that i wrote let people know that this isn't something new for americans. franklin delano roosevelt, the same president who said "there's nothing to fear but fear itself," showed his own fear prior to world war ii when he refused to let a ship filled with refugees from germany dock in the united states. they tried to flee. they went back to europe, nazi germany. at least 300 of those 1,000 individuals eventually died in the holocaust. america is supposed to be better than that. you know, is it a perfect

state system that we have now? no. but we have an obligation to allow refugees in this country, to do whatever processes we can, but to just say, "we're gonna close our borders, no refugees"? we're basing these decisions on polling. yes, the polls show that most americans are opposed to this right now. they were opposed prior to world war ii. there was one poll of americans that said, "would you open our borders to 10,000 jewish children who are trying to flee from nazi germany?" 60% of americans said "no." it was wrong to do that. you alluded to this mayor in virginia who said, "well, maybe we should do what they did in world war ii and not allow japanese-americans to be interned in the country." franklin delano roosevelt made that decision, as well. in 1988, the united states repudiated that decision. we not only apologized to japanese-americans, we paid reparations to japanese-americans because that was the wrong decision based on polling. >> let me get renee. i want to know what you think about this. >> my concern is that people are really nervous about this whole process. it's not what you say, it's how you say it, and that's

a big thing, and i think -- and i'm going with senator toomey. i think we have to look at the process. 47 democrats went against the president and said we have to wait and look at this whole process and make sure that we have everything in order, everything in place, and i think that's what needs to happen. >> but my fear is that they went against the president out of their own political calculation because of the polls, because those democrats who switched are not in safe seats. >> and it works. >> you know i know. >> yeah, yeah. >> you know i know. >> it works -- the strategy. >> that's right. well, we know -- and we know that fear works, right -- playing on fear. so my hope is that the marker that andrew cuomo laid down is what we follow, which is, let's figure out the practical, pragmatic way to balance our moral imperative and our obligation to keep the country safe. >> so this is what paul ryan wants to do, as well, and speaker ryan -- one of the first acts of his speakership, he called for

a study group that led to legislation that was passed -- >> that's right. >> not veto-proof. >> well, by one. >> that's right. >> i mean, in the house. he's got 289. the senate -- we'll see what the senate does, and harry reid's already said, "forget it. we're not touching it." they'll filibuster. but when we're talking about refugees, we need to be careful to understand the context within which they're being produced... >> right. >> ...and the capacity for more of them to be produced. so this goes far beyond just the question of what do you do with those people who have left? and by the by, the u.n.'s own numbers are that this flood of refugees that's descending on europe, 72% are men of military age. >> mm-hmm. >> they're not purely syrians. >> let me ask this rhetorical -- or hypothetical here. if there was a terrorist from the middle east trained with isis, wanted to get into this country, would you try and go

the "legitimate" way and act as a refugee and go through the process and maybe two years later you might be able to get in or sneak through the border through mexico? >> well, they're trying to sneak through the border in mexico, and now -- we don't have firm confirmation, but border-control agents have said eight syrian nationals tried to make their way into the united states -- >> through texas. i've seen the report. >> it's a very good point you make, though, matt. i think that we've already seen with what's happened in paris that they're going to take the most immediate route to get into a country to do their terrorist acts. you know, the bigger problem we have in america are the homegrown muslims who are being attracted to radical islam because of things like this, because we're sending messages that you're not welcome in our country, you know, we want the muslims out of here. we fear all of you. we're suspicious of all of you. it just sends -- >> harold, i'm sorry, but there's nothing about what we're doing that is inspiring people to want to wage war against us.

this is inbred. this is where they are marinating in a world view. >> we just had an attack in africa, in mali this morning. >> right. >> it's based on attacking something that symbolizes western civilization, the way westerners live. that's what it's all about. we may not be doing something directly by the way we live, but we are -- >> i would say we should listen to the king of jordan and the president of egypt, who have both said that there is a deep endemic sickness within islam that is playing itself out. in fact, the king of jordan this week just said, "this is a struggle for civilization, but we have a problem within islam that we need to fix." >> let me take a turn in this discussion here, a slight turn. the institute for economics and peace has a global terrorism index, and it has boko haram at the top -- six-year insurgency in nigeria has killed 20,000 people and displaced 2.3 million people. are we fearing or worrying about the wrong group?

>> well, i think we're fearing and worrying about the wrong group in even a broader way. i think if you go just by our history in the united states, the greater terrorist threats are high school kids with guns. the terrorist gun epidemic in america, the domestic is a greater threat than -- >> that's a violence threat. it's not a terrorist threat in the sense of defining terrorism as having a political component and wanting to achieve some change in politics. >> well, i think you've got to be careful. >> it's violence. there's no doubt. >> it's violence, and i think that's a distinction without a difference when it comes to finding political solutions. in other words, a lot of the people who are banging the drum to close our borders, when it comes to domestic terrorism are saying, "well, we can't do anything about the sale of guns." that seems, to me, to be -- >> no, but they do talk about mental illness and approaching the problem from that

standpoint. so you have a difference of opinion as to how you're going to attack it. all i'm saying is, let's be respectful of the meaning of the words, and terrorism has a different component to it that has to be considered. we have a problem with this violence. we absolutely do. >> and it's mental health, around mental health -- a lot of issues around that. but i think we have to really look at what you really said as far as what is the definition of terrorist and stuff. we have to look at people who are coming from over here from war-torn cities -- sudan, sierra leone -- those type of things. but now you have people that are military folks that want to come in here for a reason, and we have to really look at that and, really, do we have the right policies and procedures? is it really tight enough? and i'm not sure it is. >> to your point, though, matt, i don't think the name matters. we had al qaeda replaced by isis. you can talk about the nigerian group. it is an islamic terrorist movement. the names change, the places change. people from the united states are being recruited, they're

being attracted to it who are muslim-americans, and they're being attracted to radical islamic theology, to those theories, and we have to look at that as being the root of the problem. what is it about our society in which americans, who grew up american, but are muslim, are attracted to this radicalism? you can't say that the united states has to divorce itself of any responsibility for the problem. that's not really true because it's a worldwide problem, and it has to do with islam, and the islamic community itself needs to address it, as well. >> it's just challenging to hear that there's something wrong with american society that people who have been invited as refugees or raised here -- >> we're not taking about refugees. we're talking about people who are raised in this country. >> i was saying that. ...given every opportunity, have decided to adopt a death cult. i don't know that the problem is with the united states. i think the problem is with the individual and the appeal of that ideology. >> well, it's not just the united states' ideology. they're recruiting from across the world. and i think the world needs to deal with the issue. >> right. and you're proving my point.

>> when i say the united states, i don't mean the united states alone. i think everyone needs to handle this issue. >> and if you look at it, you have to look at the internet. we talked about this before. a lot of these folks are being recruited from the internet what's going on -- tweet, twitter -- all these kinds of things. that's a big issue. and they're dealing with young folks that are not happy about being here, and some of them have mental-health illness. >> i think what -- not to put words in harold's mouth, but i think what i'm hearing is we need to be introspective. we need to ask ourselves what -- instead of just pointing fingers, what is the solution? the solution is, this is a war of ideas, right? and we haven't engaged the battle on that level. we've engaged it militarily, but we haven't engaged the battle in terms of the ideas underpinning, the philosophies underpinning this phenomenon. >> another side issue is -- and i know the media did not ignore what happened in beirut, the twin bombings the day before, because action news

reported it that day. did people ignore it because of where it happened? and was it wrong for that to happen? and then for something to happen in paris, people suddenly care? >> matt, the notion that there's a bombing in beirut, and it constitutes news is foreign even to the people in the region because they've become accustomed to a certain level of violence. why did paris command all the attention? that's the basic question you're asking. >> mm-hmm. >> i don't know many people who go vacation in beirut. i know a lot of people who go to paris. >> it's the anomaly aspect of the occurrence. >> yes. and it's the notion that if you had a competition as to what is the most international world cosmopolite place, paris would be in the running. >> i love paris. >> yes, everyone does. >> really, and the other western capitals, as well. i think that's the difference. when something happens in a western capital, we, as westerners, are going to pay more attention. >> yeah.

>> that's right. >> well, there's your answer. we're gonna be right back with more "inside story" right after this. >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. temple fuels students with academics and opportunities to take charge. plugged into the city, powered by the world. temple.edu/takecharge.

♪ >> back with "inside story" here. we're gonna talk about fantasy sport sites.

i have one that's not money-related, but, you know, i enjoy it with my son. they could be in jeopardy. pennsylvania, new jersey, new york, and now delaware are all considering regulating the exploding industry of fantasy sports. fan sites have been able to continue operating because they currently fall under the category of "games of skill." but more and more lawmakers across the country seem to think that the games are no different than gambling and could actually be harmful to compulsive gamblers and children. harold, what do you think? >> well, i think it is a form of gambling. i think that the level of skill that's necessary is similar to the level of skill in playing bingo, which, in some states, is also considered gambling. you know, the taxation element of it is what's appealing, i think, to the states. i don't think it's the moral fiber of these different governments that they want to get rid of fantasy-football, fantasy-sports betting. i think that if they can find a way to tax it, then it will be perfectly fine with them. >> another cookie jar to reach our hands into, larry. >> i think that's right. look, i think it is a game of skill because i've been in fantasy leagues, and i suck

because i go with my heart like the fan i am -- >> you pick all eagles players? >> i pick the eagles players. you know, sam bradford was my guy. so you need skill. you need discipline. [ laughs ] >> i'll help you, larry, okay? you need help. >> it's funny to hear the people who run the lottery now decry the gambling that's going on with these sites because it's like claude rains in "casablanca" -- "i'm shocked, shocked to find gambling at rick's," as they hand him his winnings. i am stunned as to the presence of it this year. the nfl has turned itself over entirely to these games. >> sure. oh, they work in partnership. >> yes, they do, and how there isn't not just a moral hazard of gamblers, people who are addicted getting into this in the big time, but how you make sure that there isn't some sort of inside information that plays itself out.

>> which has been a problem. >> i mean, remember. there were people decades ago in the nfl who were banished from the game for a period of time because they gambled. >> alex karras. >> yeah. although i have to say, i'm more libertarian than you on this. i just feel like we just got done talking about real problems, and, you know, my attitude on this is live and let live. >> people are having fun. i don't know the whole fantasy thing. i'm not into it like matt is. >> massachusetts wants to make an age limit -- 21 or over you play, and then you tax it. what do you think of that? >> go ahead. have fun with it. >> let them tax it. harold already said it. that's why they're concerned because -- >> in the 1960s at st. albert's grade school, there was a kid who'd always come in and have little white pieces of paper, and it was a football pool, and on the bottom it said, "for entertainment purposes only." [ laughter ] all right? and to the point of being libertarian, i'm not saying shut it down, but i am saying

that it's odd to hear the people who encourage gambling in the state through lotteries to be upset by this because one gets the sense, if you're going to be somewhat cynical, that they're honing in on our business. >> that's what they're doing. that's why they're upset. so, like harold said. so tax them. let them do what they want to do in their fantasy stuff with matt. >> to your point, ed, fantasy football, fantasy sports existed a long time before they found a way to make money off of it. it used to just be a fun activity. >> and the dam burst. i mean, it's just like it's everywhere. but, larry, you had a great point. the earlier discussion we had makes this seem very much insignificant. >> exactly. >> let's move on to another topic. i'm going to jump ahead and talk about the pennsylvania budget. now, a wrench may have been thrown in the gears here. you see the senate plans to vote this week on a bill that would eliminate the property tax in pennsylvania as a way to raise school revenue and replace it with a higher sales tax, and this is problematic because governor wolf is on a much different page, at least as far as we know, seeking higher income taxes, gas-extraction

fees, then there's the state liquor privatization thing, the pension reform, and, so, renee, who's plugged in in harrisburg, has what to say about this? >> i'm sick of it. that's number one. >> it's been five months, nearly five months. >> it's ridiculous. you have programs closing because of this crisis center. "i'm not being paid. i still have to pay staff, and i don't want my folks not to have treatment and be on the street." so this is -- it's ridiculous. the income-tax piece, the property tax, the sales tax -- you're talking about 9-some percent in philadelphia and some percent in suburban areas. it's a mess. it is a mess. and people are really not communicating. they keep saying we're getting closer and closer. they're not close. and everybody wants to go to the pennsylvania society. >> should they not go? >> i want them to go to pennsylvania society, talk about a deal, have fun -- drink together, talk together, come back with a budget. that's where i'm at at this point. >> not lock them in a room? >> exactly. and i'll be there to do that. >> is it fair to do what they want to do with property tax? i mean, is it fair the way the property-tax system is set up right now in pennsylvania -- how it pays for schools?

>> well... [ laughter ] >> i know harold has an opinion. >> i would say this. i think that what pennsylvania needs, of course, is comprehensive tax reform. instead of nibbling in these different areas of taxation, it needs to look at all of the taxes. its biggest problem is that the constitution does not allow it to have a progressive income tax. if it dealt with that problem, it would solve some of this. >> that would need a constitutional amendment, right? >> so it probably won't happen in pennsylvania, but that's what needs to happen. relying on a sales tax over and over and over again, or the sin taxes, is regressive. it hits the people who can least afford to pay those taxes. let's get in a room, look at all of the taxes, corporate taxes, and come up with something that's best for all of pennsylvania. >> we knew four months ago what the deal had to be, and i think it was a sign of political naiveté on the part of the governor that we never got a deal, and that now the deal, it looks like, will be this utterly regressive sales tax,

which i think is horrible. it hurts -- and you let the -- >> final word? >> and no severance tax. >> inside stories of the week coming up. ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ with the card most accepted by top doctors and specialists, you have the compassion and security of blue cross. giving you the strength to drive forward. independence blue cross. live fearless.

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. temple fuels students with academics and opportunities to take charge. plugged into the city, powered by the world. temple.edu/takecharge. ♪ >> i want to hear the inside stories of the week. we start with larry. >> matt, we talked about pennsylvania society next month, the gala of the movers and shakers of the state. i'm taking -- as part of the philadelphia citizen, i'm taking a group of 10 young innovators. it's called "an innovation

invasion of pennsylvania society" to introduce them to the establishment and try and tweak the establishment a little bit. you got to make room for emerging leaders. >> can't wait to hear what they say. thanks, larry. ed. >> matt, casualty of the paris situation -- the schengen agreement. 26 countries said no papers needed to travel around. all of them are now calling for not just documentation, but new forms of documentation to require movement just to keep an eye on who's coming and going. >> thanks, ed. harold. >> i'm going to be paying close atte saint martin. to retain commissioner sawyer, an african-american. we'll see if he'll do that. >> okay, thanks, harold. renee. >> real fast. i'm talking about speaker turzai, who got very emotional in a closed republican caucus meeting about voting for marijuana, medical marijuana -- got so emotional he really couldn't talk about it. so you know what, speaker? if that's how you feel, that's how you feel.

>> i'm watching the eagles play the buccaneers. how about that? silence. [ laughter ] great discussion, everyone. thanks for joining us. thanks for watching us here on "inside story." i'm matt o'donnell. we'll see you next week. i'll see you monday morning on action news, and, hey. have a happy thanksgiving in between. ♪ >> i'm nydia han along with eva pilgrim. thousands of run iralso hit the streets amid extra security for the philadelphia marathon. we're live. a delaware man is behind bars accused of impersonating a police officer. president obama on the offensive with a new mechaniccage for isis in the wake of last week attacks in paris. those stories and more next on "action news."

it's the holidays. which means a house full of people -- who all want to get online. so it's the perfect time for verizon fios. it has the fastest internet and wifi available. with speeds from 50 to 500 megs. and right now, you'll get 50 meg fios internet, tv and phone for 79.99 a month online for your first year. and with a 2 year agreement, we'll give you all the premium movie channels for a year. plus, 400 dollars back. so go online or call now. get out of the past. get fios.

>> good afternoon it is sunday november 22 i'm nydia han along with eva pilgrim. >> here's some of the stories we're following on "action news." the philadelphia marathon is underway this noon with extra security in place we're live. >> police release new in fact about a pedestrian accident that killed a woman on 495 in delaware. the eagles have a chance to