>> the mayor of philadelphia on "inside story" next. ♪ good morning, everyone. it's sunday, april 10, 2016. i'm matt o'donnell. thanks for tuning in to "inside story." and our special guest here is mayor jim kenney from philadelphia. >> hi, matt. good to be back. >> your first appearance on "inside story" as a guest. >> ever. yeah, ever. not only as mayor, but just ever. >> [ laughs ] i don't know what we were thinking. >> well, no, i just think it was -- being an elected official, other elected officials would have wanted to do the same thing, and i think it was almost hard to manage. >> well, it's good to have you in. quick story. >> thank you. >> we had a number of conversations that i posted on facebook with some issues. one, you were running for mayor. and one day i was in spring garden, waiting for you to show up, and this taxicab pulls up right in front of me, and you come walking out. and i'm like, "well, that's not very mayoral, but that's also kind of cool." >> well, i mean, i think the

biggest thing about being mayor is you can never lose sight of the fact that you are a regular, normal person coming from a row-house neighborhood. and if you ever lose sight of that fact and get too big for your head -- your head gets too big for your body, your friends -- my friends in south philly would let me know that real quick. and it's important that people understand that you understand what they go through every day. that's why i was a big proponent and took public transit a lot -- took the subway to work for a number of years -- just so people can see that you go through the same thing they go through. >> your security detail doesn't let you take taxis anymore. >> no, they don't. they frown on the subway, too. >> sure. >> but i'm still gonna use it from time to time. >> the club valiants, the black fire union, is upset with you because you are replacing derrick sawyer. you made him acting commissioner back in december. you want to wait for the announcement as to who's replacing him, but what do you have to say about club valiants? why are you unhappy with derrick sawyer's leadership? >> well, it's not derrick sawyer directly. it's sometimes in a department, you need a fresh set of eyes from outside. we had that when john timoney came in, we had that when chuck ramsey came in.

i didn't feel that the police department needed a set of outside eyes this time, so we went with richard ross, and everyone is happy with him. it's not anything about commissioner sawyer or anyone else in that department. it's about a new direction that we need to go in. and i think we've been mired for lots of reasons in -- less than i'd like to see this department be, and we decided to go outside and see how it goes. >> your sugary-drinks tax, they call it a soda tax, too. >> sugar-sweetened beverage tax. >> that's the official name. >> not grocery tax. >> why that? i mean, was it about obesity? about revenue that you generate? was it maybe the easiest one you felt could pass city council? why'd you pick that one? >> it was solely about revenue, and revenue to provide quality pre-k opportunities for 10,000 more children in our city that desperately need it. revenue to provide community schools, which deliver services directly to the school. this takes a lot of the burden off some of the parents who are working hard at low-wage jobs to

get their kids the medical issues they need and attention they need. to rebuild our parks, infrastructure, and libraries. we're gonna generate hopefully about $600 million -- $300 million in city money and $300 million in leverage money -- to refurbish our parks, recreation centers, and libraries. parks and recreation centers and libraries are the place where most of our children receive the most after-school help, from 3:00 to 7:00, the most vulnerable time for a kid to be out in the street, when mom and dad are working. and our rec centers, some of them are 80 years old and haven't seen any kind of real serious help in 40 years. so we've been kind of using my favorite tool, which is duct tape, to duct-tape our boiler systems and our rooves and our basketball courts, and we need an overhaul. and we've seen that when you do overhaul libraries, recreation centers, and parks, the value in the neighborhood goes up, the housing value goes up, people's spirits go up. and i think this was the only revenue source we had. if you look at real-estate taxes, we've raised them four times in the last five or six years. if you look at u&o taxes, use

and occupancy, that's a bigger killer to small business than anything i can think of. wage tax and business tax, as we've been touting, has been going down, you know, symbolically and actually, so we can bring more business to the city and keep more business in the city. this was a tax that is a choice that people will make to buy a product or not to buy it. >> does it have to be 3%? >> yeah. i mean, 3% gives us the $96 million we need to fund all the programs adequately. >> i know you disagree with this. i want to bring this up about "stop and frisk." during the campaign you said you're gonna end it. and as mayor, you say it will continue, but you're telling police to be less aggressive. and some people believe you're backing off on one of your promises from your campaign. >> the use of "stop and frisk" as a fishing expedition, stopping individuals randomly on the street based on a profile, is over. but i will give you an example of why "stop and frisk" can't totally go away, or why frisking someone can't go away. if you walk outside here on city avenue after work and someone sticks you up with a gun, take your wallet, take your

money, and you call 911 and you give a description of that guy -- "6' tall, he's wearing black clothing, and he had on a baseball cap, or a flyers hat" -- and three minutes later, police in that district see a person fitting that description. you've told them that he has a gun. would you expect them not to check to see if he has a gun? and the way they do that is they have to pat him down. now, it may be that suspect, it may not be. and if it's not the suspect, we have a responsibility to tell that citizen, "this is why you were stopped, 'cause we had a service call of a person with a gun, an armed robbery. you fit the description. you're obviously not the person. we apologize, and we're gonna go look for the bad guy." but if you have a service call to 911 and you tell somebody they have a gun, you should expect the police will keep themselves safe and keep the rest of the community safe by trying to get that gun off that person. but the use of it to randomly stop people without a service call, without a constitutional feeling of -- the constitutionality of it has ended. and i think we're doing a better job in training, in discipline, and the like. >> has school c.e.o. william hite done everything possible to trim down the budget

to where you can't have someone go in and say, "well, you know, we can't give them any more money because this is not an efficient program, and there can be some cuts here and some changes there"? >> well, bill hite has a very difficult job. sometimes i think it's more difficult than the job i have, especially when you're not getting support, and the constitution requires support from harrisburg. school district lost $1 billion under governor corbett, and we're still recovering from that. class sizes are up, teachers' vacancies are up, buildings are not being repaired the way they should be. we had that terrible incident with one of our employees that was blown up in a boiler accident. i mean, so, the commonwealth of pennsylvania, under the state constitution, has the responsibility to provide a thorough and efficient education for our children. they're not doing it. and we're working with governor wolf and reasonable members in the legislature, in the senate and the house, to try to get that done. but it is the state's responsibility. the city has put $400 million additional money into the system over the last number of years. our five-year plan calls for an additional $400 million of support for the school district. but we can't carry this burden

alone. >> you endorse hillary clinton? >> yes. >> and she's lost six of the last seven state contests. why can't she close the deal? this is the time when she's supposed to do it. >> look, it's an election. bernie sanders has generated a lot of interest, and a lot of interest amongst young people, which i think is awesome. she will be the nominee in the end, and and she'll be the next president of the united states. i think she's earned it. she has the wealth of experience and knowledge. i met with her for the first time two days ago, for an hour and a half, at a re-entry center up in kensington. people coming back from incarceration. and i had never had the opportunity to really talk to her. she's smart and she's fun and she's funny and she's engaged, she's empathetic. she listens to people, she has good questions. i mean, i was very, very impressed. 'cause i usually see her on television, you're fending off some attack from someone in washington. this is a time where she really showed me the type of person that she is, and i think she'll be a great president. >> and you will be the host of the democratic national convention. >> i'm looking forward to it. >> thanks, mayor kenney. we'll have you again soon. >> any time you like. thanks. >> please. thanks. we'll be right back.

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. in the last eight years, the fracking industry has spent over $40 million dollars on lobbying in pennsylvania. so it's no surprise that even though they've had over 4,000 violations, all they've ever gotten is just a slap on the wrist it's time for that change. i'm josh shapiro, and i'll hold the oil and gas companies criminally liable for poisoning our air and our drinking water. i'll be an attorney general who always works for you. democrat josh shapiro. he'll stand up for us.

there are two democratic visions for regulating wall street. one says it's okay to take millions from big banks and then tell them what to do. my plan -- break up the big banks, close the tax loopholes, and make them pay their fair share. then we can expand health care to all, and provide universal college education. will they like me? no. will they begin to play by the rules if i'm president? you better believe it. i'm bernie sanders and i approve this message.

a little child with big dreams. dwight evans. first a community activist. a legislator at 25. always looking out for us. he worked to create a thriving commercial district. and he's brought new grocery stores to underserved areas. dwight evans is committed to revitalizing neighborhoods in all of philadelphia. he'll be a block by block congressman for us. i'm dwight evans and i'm proud to approve this message. ♪ >> back with "inside story." let's meet our panelists of the week. ajay raju, attorney. >> morning, matt. >> ed turzanski, foreign-policy analyst. >> hello, matt. >> donna gentile o'donnell. no relation, but first time you and i are both on this show, so

welcome to "inside story." >> good to be here. thanks. >> non-profit executive. welcome, donna. and val digiorgio, gop state official in chester county. >> good morning. >> hey, val. all right, so, let's talk about mayor kenney. first time he's ever been on "inside story." what were we thinking? but, you know, talk about what he was talking about with the soda tax, and also with the fire commissioner. lot of things going on in city hall. >> and he gives a good interview, and he's right to be fixing philadelphia parks, and putting money into those worthy programs he talked about. it's just always disappointing that tax increases are always the first resort instead of the last resort. there's never any conversation of zero-based budgeting, or ways we can make government more efficient and then funnel that money into these other worthy places. and it's always discouraging. i also have to take issue with one thing he said. whenever i hear the misstatement, it needs to be corrected. governor corbett did not cut $1 billion out of state spending. that happened when the stimulus money went away. we spent more money under governor corbett than ever on education. so just want to set that record straight. >> think the soda tax is gonna happen, ajay, as its stated,

with 3%? >> i think the opposition is pretty strong on this one. i think, if i read the political tea leaves, it will be very difficult for it to happen. but what struck me the most, which always strikes me when you see mayor kenney, he's kenney from the block. there is a j. ken aspect to him which i think is very likeable. and i think if there's anybody who has the political honeymoon period that we could take advantage of, it would be mayor kenney at this point. but i doubt that this will pass. >> donna. >> well, he also noted that it had to be 3%. and i think if you're gonna go into a negotiation, and you're saying, "this is what i have to have," i think it makes it hard to back it down. i also, the last time we talked about this -- i'm looking for the french-fry tax. i think it's a mistake to only single out one food that's unhealthy. and, you know, heart disease is a big deal in this town, and if you really want to make a dent in it, it can't just be sugar. there was another way to do this. >> so, why stop at french fries? i mean, this is the classic definition of slippery slope.

>> sure. >> so now government's going to get into taxing all sorts of foods. and, by the way, the mayor said it was not about health. >> that's right. >> it was about revenues, and trying to accomplish all those things that val, i think, correctly identified as being very good goals. the sort of thing no one can be against the things that he'd like to do with the money. one of the things to watch, and he very briefly referenced it, will this be known as a sugary-drink tax or a grocery tax? >> mm-hmm. >> if you hear "sugary drink" more and more, chances are that it'll have a better prospect to pass. the more you hear the word grocery, the less likely it is to pass, because then people's imaginations start to become very expansive, and they say, "what will be next? what's the next thing that they'll go after?" >> french fries. [ laughs ] >> and keep in mind, there's some question of whether you need state authorization for this tax. and it's not 3%, it's 3 cents

per ounce. that's 36 cents a can. that's $2.10 for a two-liter bottle. and it's just -- the question comes up again and again, when is enough enough? when is enough of our money enough? they want to tax everything they can get their hands on, the left. really need to talk about how to find efficiencies in government, and then funnel the money to these worthy programs that way. >> he didn't want to mention who was going to be the next fire commissioner, but we know it's going to be adam thiel. he comes from virginia. whenever you bring an outsider into a big department like that, you get some flack from the rank and file. you think that's gonna happen in this situation? >> not necessarily. if you need a fresh perspective, if you need a new restart, as the mayor pointed out, if that was a sincere attempt to sort of jump-start and exfoliate the old practices, and to, you know, bring like agenda to the old organization, then it's fine. >> and this appointee has a very, very substantial résumé that i think is gonna be helpful in the dnc. i mean, he's got a

homeland security background, he's done a lot of work not only in emergency management and fire. so he's got a varied background. i think he's a good pick, and i think the sooner they can get him here, get his feet on the ground, and get him working toward addressing the complex logistics that will come with the dnc, i think that's meaningful. >> and they're cultural changes that we're talking about -- that we should be talking about, and we're not. and i think that's what the mayor was referencing. he wanted somebody from the outside to do a deep-dive, 360 review, see what is happening, and to see if there are not some shared lessons coming from the homeland security venue, and also other places that can be brought to bear. but just keeping in mind, cultural change is difficult, especially in a town like philadelphia. it does tend to be somewhat insulary, especially in situations where you have union contracts that are gonna have to be challenged to perhaps change how things are done. >> we mentioned the schools during our interview, and

mayor kenney firmly believes that the state's not doing its end of the duty. isn't the schools the one big issue that could really turn out to be a land mine and blow up in his face in a couple months? 'cause there's so much uncertainty with wolf and the legislature and the budget. >> well, that's another question. how much is enough? let's start with, what do you need to educate a child in the city of philadelphia? let's try to work toward that number, and justify it. why do you need that? and we never get that. it's always, "we need more, we need more, we need more." and you never get better results. so, it's now $18,000 a child to educate. that's what we're paying, state and federal and local money, to educate a child in the city of philadelphia. that should be more than enough. now, there are some baked-in costs with pensions. we're trying to get pension reform in harrisburg so we can alleviate some of those costs. >> well, but $18,000 is probably more than enough for my kid, who has two parents, not going to school hungry, doesn't have, probably, bullets flying through, between his commute from home to... but $18,000 in terms of overall

services -- the public schools, especially urban schools, are not just providing education. they're providing a lot more than that -- health services, mental services, et cetera. so i think it's a combination of both. it's what you do with the money, whether the money's being efficiently used. but also, i think we have to recognize that the funding system is inherently unfair to the urban schools and people who live in poor neighborhoods. >> but can we also have a more broad base conception as to who is part of the educational environment? you've got the catholic school system of this community that has done an extraordinary job, and is frozen out of getting any kind of money. >> right. >> put some of that into the catholic school system. >> that's a different issue. >> well, no. no, no. it is the issue. >> right. it's the issue. >> because you keep on funneling the money in one direction. if this is a public need, it's a public good we're talking about, consider the catholic school system a partner. let them have some access to this. >> i'm not convinced that we're using the money efficiently. i definitely don't think that we're using the money efficiently. >> and to your very good point,

ed, and the mayor mentioned this, the commonwealth does have a constitutional obligation. it does not, however, specify how that constitutional obligation is to be met. >> right. >> so that, i think, is a place that bears further examination. you know, what do you do with that? >> you've got tremendously experienced educators and an educational system that has done right by many people, the mayor and myself included. we're products of catholic education. give kids access to this. but then you're talking about some other entanglements having to do with... >> you think? >> well, you know, there's charter schools, too. and there's been a hostility toward charter schools of late. some of them work, some of them don't work so well. you got to weed out the -- just like you weed out the bad public schools, you got to weed out the bad charter schools. funnel the money to where it's working. it can't always be about more money, more money. we have to look at these things holistically. i mean, ajay raises some good points. but you can't just keep putting a band-aid on the problems in inner-city america and expect more money's gonna fix the problem. you have to get down to the root of the problem. >> that democratic national convention is right around the

corner, isn't it? >> yes. >> mm-hmm. >> the flowers are blooming. it's not till late july, really. but already, protestors are filing petitions to demonstrate that weekend. there's one that's going to build an ice sculpture that says "the american dream," and then they're going to let it melt. which, you know, i mean, that's what they're trying to say with that. bernie sanders is going to hold his own demonstration. you're like, "well, doesn't he want to be the nominee?" but that's a whole other thing. and then hillary clinton and bernie sanders are both in philadelphia this week. they got into a big battle over whether or not hillary clinton is fit to be president, whether bernie sanders is fit to be president. the thing here is, sanders has won six of the last seven state contests, and this is the time that -- it's like the home stretch, and hillary clinton really has to grab the ball and put it over the goal line. and, donna, that just hasn't happened. why? >> well, i think, first of all, sanders is appealing to an interesting demographic. i mean, if you look at who are the sanders voters, they're young, they're optimistic, or they want to be optimistic, and they don't want to be burdened

by a lot of college debt. that, i think, has been one of the driving factors in his messaging. i do think that hillary is gonna be the nominee. she may not be able to wrap it up the way that we would like, in sort of a nice tight package, but when you compare that to what's going on on the republican side, it looks like, you know, a may day picnic. >> i read that the democrats fear that if they keep going at each other, it could start going that way. >> i think it won't. i think it won't. i think that there'll be obligations on the part of democratic leadership and those two campaigns when they get to the convention. they've got to figure out how to harness that and convert it into value going forward, and i think they'll do it. >> the "feel the bern" campaign i think will die before the nomination process. but the afterburn will last for a long time. we're now talking about stratification of class, we're talking about race relations, we're talking about the wealth and equity inequality. all of those issues that i think

hillary would have loved to avoid are now on the forefront of american consciousness. look 1968. back then, it was civil rights, war. this is the dnc convention in chicago. they attacked the middle class about globalization. all of the issues at the forefront of today's consciousness. except the american eye is watching the republican convention, which will be in cleveland. we'll be in philadelphia. >> interestingly, the clinton administration has been put on trial here by bernie. and so whether it's free trade or welfare reform, you go down a lot of -- and bill clinton was in town yesterday and defended -- felt he needed to defend his administration, the things they did. and hillary's been pulled so far to the left, she's actually where bernie is, and attacking her own husband's legacy. and that's gonna be a problem for them in the fall. >> well, and the question of protest. one of these incidents where bill clinton was defending his administration, he wound up in a very sharp exchange with black lives matter protestors. and hillary, bernie, and the

rest have gone in with them. bill clinton stands astride by himself, crying, "no! the '90s were not terrible. >> that's the afterburn. >> there were many things that we had to do. and it'll be interesting to see whether that generates any kind of protestors. will there be black lives matter, anti-wall street, occupy types. >> it'll be similar to the occupy movement. >> how prominent will they be in philadelphia during the convention, and how much news coverage will they get as opposed to what people are thinking is going to happen in cleveland? >> the pennsylvania and democratic primaries are later this month, on april 26th. and hillary clinton won pennsylvania when she ran for president in 2008. but on the republican side, you have kasich and cruz who see this as an opportunity. and who would have thought that pennsylvania's primary would matter 'cause it's so late? >> shocker, yeah. >> and new jersey's could, too. so talk about that dynamic. >> well, if you look at polling now, and cruz could very well be

winning the state. we did a poll in chester county. about 1,500 people responded, and had a third, a third, a third breakdown between the three candidates. you know, the anti-establishment thing is there. it's in both parties, by the way. the untold story in this election is what it's meant for the democratic party, especially with katie mcginty and sestak. we're seeing it there. anti-establishment candidate sestak doing better. so, but it remains to be seen. what's interesting is that, you know, we're starting to get pressure on delegates to vote the right way, whatever that means. pennsylvania's delegates are uncommitted. we're one of the rare states that are that way. they'll walk into that convention and they'll say, "we're not committed to any candidate." there are 54 of them. there's 14 that are committed. so, we're starting to see pressure on delegates. >> there's a mathematical certainty that this will be a brokered convention. i think that's the big story. >> does anyone not think that at this table? that we will not see a contested convention in cleveland? >> for the sake of the united states of america, i hope it is. and i just want to point out, abraham lincoln was chosen as the nominee on the third ballot

of a brokered convention. it's not a bad thing. >> inside stories of the week coming up. ♪ the world a president has to grapple with. sometimes you can't even imagine. that's the job. and she's the one who's proven she can get it done. ...securing a massive reduction in nuclear weapons... ...standing up against the abuse of women... ...protecting social security... ...expanding benefits for the national guard... ...and winning health care for 8 million children... the presidency is the toughest job in the world and she's the one who'll make a real difference for you. i'm hillary clinton and i approved this message.

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. >> inside stories of the week. we start with ajay. >> matt, april 28th, the the germination project will host its gala at the union league. nick stuccio from philly fringe, david devan from opera philadelphia will be producing the show. and guess who the emcee is? matt o'donnell. >> thank you, ajay. >> thanks, ajay. >> reserve tickets now. >> ed. >> matt, aramark is the largest food and service company on planet earth. and they've been in philadelphia since 1961. their lease expires, on market street, in 2018. they just announced this week that they are staying. that means 6,500 regional jobs, 14,000 statewide jobs are

staying here. thank you, aramark. yay, team philly. >> thanks, ed. donna. >> you know, there's been speculation in the ags race that john morganelli is just a stalking-horse for josh shapiro. or, for zappala. and it's very interesting, because we all raised our eyebrows when bruce castor got chosen by kathleen kane to come to that office. it turns out, according to reliable sources, that castor approached morganelli about backing down on his criticisms of shapiro on contracts and contributions. and so you have to wonder. you know, politics makes strange bedfellows. what's up? >> thanks, donna. val. >> well, governor wolf might be watching "house of cards" a little too much these days. 13 democrats crossed party lines to vote for that budget to make sure schools stayed open, and the governor apparently is exacting his vengeance. 10 of those 13 democrats in the state house have complained publicly in a letter to the governor, they're being shut out of the various departments and agencies there for help with

constituent services, and being told to contact the governor's office if you want help. so, so much for a guy who wanted to change the culture in harrisburg. >> thanks to our panelists here on "inside story," and a special thanks once again to mayor jim kenney for joining us. we'll have him back here again. i'm matt o'donnell. that's "inside story" for this sunday. we'll see you next week. i'll see you monday morning on "action news" at 4:30 a.m. ♪ i'm nydia han along with gray hall. coming up next on "action news," an suv crashes into a home in bucks county and landed a few feet away from the sleeping homeowner we're live. two 7-elevens are targeted win a matter of minutes. philadelphia police believe the same men are behind both holdups. a former nfl player is shot and killed in a case of road rage. those stories and the

exclusive accuweather seven-day forecast next on "action news." > good afternoon, sunday,

april 10 i'm nydia han along with gray hall. >> a man is shot and killed