>> will the budget be late again? governor wolf says, "i don't think so." "inside story" starts right now. ♪ good morning, everyone. i'm matt o'donnell. it is sunday, may 22nd, 2016. let's get right in on "inside story" and meet our panelists this week. we have george burrell -- nonprofit executive. >> good morning, matt. >> good morning, george. christine flowers -- journalist and attorney. >> good morning. >> hi, christine. ajay raju -- attorney. >> good morning. >> good morning, ajay. and foreign-policy analyst ed turzanski. >> hey, matt. >> thanks for joining us, everyone. i hosted another conversation with the governor with the greater philadelphia chamber of commerce this week, and our special guest is, or was, governor tom wolf. and the question we asked him was this -- 2016/2017 fiscal budget -- will it be late? >> i don't... [ laughter ] i don't -- [ laughter ]

why do you ask? [ laughter ] i don't think so. i sense a very different tone in harrisburg. i mean, last year i think there was a little bit of testing, and and there was a different approach this year. i think people want to get it done. >> the governor also said he didn't overreach with his last budget, which had many moving parts and led to a standoff with republicans that just ended last month, almost 10 months. now, meanwhile, a source tells me republicans are, indeed, weary about what happened last year and into this year, but that they're even more committed than ever on holding the line on taxes and even described this whole situation this way -- "the gop has wolf boxed in." >> would you agree, george? >> you know, they control both houses -- you know, the senate and the house in harrisburg. but i think even they have to answer to the public at some point in time, and i think they

all understand that. i think the benefit this time around, whether the governor is right or whether the legislators are right, is that they're both now pros that this. last year was the first time that the leadership in the house and senate and the governor had been through this process as leaders. they now have a better understanding of how it works. they also understand that the people are tired and frustrated. it's an election year for everybody, and republicans and democrats don't want to poison the water for their presidential candidates and their senate candidates. so i think they have incentives beyond their differences to get it done. >> i agree with george. they're not virgins at this anymore. they know each other's weaknesses. they know the achilles' heels. and i especially agree with george about the fact that we have a national election. they don't want to be seen as obstruc-- we have enough problems at the federal level right now with democrats and republicans going against each other and democrats going against democrats and vice versa -- intra-family problems. so i think that they're going to want to be seen as a bit more conciliatory, especially with the anger that was triggered

among pennsylvanians, especially those who have school-age children, the budget really forestalling any kind of funding for the schools. that really angered a lot of people. i don't think they want to go down that path again. >> what do you think, ajay? >> i don't think the consequences of all of the stalling and not withstanding the anger that people feel means that house legislators or senators are gonna lose their seats. so that's why the consequences are not real. they have leverage, and i think governor wolf is learning the lesson though -- you can't just be an ideologue. you also, in politics, learn how to compromise, and i think that a stubborn position he put himself in the first time around, even though well intentioned, this doesn't work in the legislative process. george knows this better than most people. sometimes you have to eat crow a little bit and give the other side a few chips just so that you can get the larger agenda pushed. you can't just want everything that you want. and i think -- it's a lesson learned the first time around. i think governor wolf has done a good job of, this time around, proposing something that is much

more -- something that the appetite for the republicans ought to be better, but republicans have leverage. >> in terms of the people with whom i've been able to speak, the one thing that really struck me in the governor's comments, when he talked about tone. and something that had been mentioned a very long time ago when the problems first surfaced, and you knew both sides were doubling down and it was gonna be a long standoff -- what i heard time and time again was that the governor's chief of staff, who at the time was katie mcginty, she was pretty caustic, and she very difficult to deal with, very harsh as an ideologue, and to ajay's point, i do think that the governor has learned that going too hard really does wind up creating a problem because you can't find your way back to wherever that accommodation's gonna be. >> and then there's this -- i asked wolf about the whole battle over the teachers,

the bill that was to allow them to be laid off on merit rather than on seniority. it was a bill that was proposed by republicans. he vetoed it. he shrugged it off as saying, "you know what? this is a separate issue." do you see something creeping in with this that, you know, may make things toxic when it gets to the budget? >> is there anything we spend more money on than schools? so if we're talking about quality of schools -- the governor may say it's a separate issue, and tactically that may be the case, but if we're trying to figure out what's best in the commonwealth, it strikes me that the quality of schools is an issue. we certainly talk about it a lot here, and if you believe that that's the sort of thing that can be consequential in giving you better schools, it's not a separate issue. >> and, you know, i read some of the comments from the teacher's union, and teachers who were upset about the whole seniority/merit divide, and it was somewhat disconcerting and upsetting that they, the teachers, were saying, "well, we put so much money in

in our training, and so many years, and so we've earned the seniority," with absolutely no mention or commentary about -- what about the quality of a person? you can spend years studying. i know lawyers who aren't worth a dollar because of -- and they've trained, and they've been through schooling for a long time. so, you know, what about their effectiveness? effectiveness is important, and i -- you know, separate and apart from the issue of whether it is a separate issue from the budget -- i agree with ed. you know, we really need to focus on the quality of the teachers that we're getting and not just say, "well, you've been there for 20 years, so you should be able to choose wherever you want to go." >> but i think senator corman has said this is a big issue for the republicans -- kind of draws a line in the sand. but there are lots of challenges. we keep wanting to have the silver bullet that solves the problem. resolving seniority and not seniority is not gonna solve public education in philadelphia or around the commonwealth of pennsylvania. and for lots of people, the question is whether people are against seniority because they really want to pick the best person, or is it an economic issue?

are the younger people less expensive and you solve more of the economic problems by deferring to younger people who may or may not be better teachers? >> two more things -- wolf says he will run for reelection, so if anyone thinks he's getting tired of all these battles, only one and a half years into it, it's not gonna happen. he also says, and he's a big phillies fan, he says he has no idea how they're winning all these games by one run. so there you have it. while everyone is focused for the race for president, others are preparing for a big political season in new jersey next year, and we're already seeing some moving parts here. governor christie's second term expires right after next year, and already the first candidate has announced he's going to run. that would be former u.s. ambassador to germany phil murphy. he's a democrat. other democratic names in the mix, possibly -- state senate president steve sweeney, assemblymen john wisniewski. and then on the republican side, a name that we've heard many times before, and his father -- tom kean jr., lieutenant governor kim guadagno, and assemblymen john bramnick, who is a christie ally. so what do you see here with the race? how are things shaking out?

and how do you think christie's unpopularity right now in the state of new jersey is going to affect the race? >> i think we'll see the gubernatorial seat go back to democrats, most likely to kim guadagno on the republican side versus, we don't know this, philip or sweeney on the democratic side. but it'll be a typical "game of thrones" being played out again in new jersey, north versus south. >> you know what? i was -- i'm sorry. >> no, go. please. >> i did notice, and i'm glad that ajay referenced that -- the vast majority of the candidates are north of trenton. there are very few -- i don't even -- somerset county? i'm not even sure if there was one south jerseyan with his or her hat in the ring. so it's just a little disconcerting as someone, you know, born and raised in this area -- that the next governor of new jersey is most likely going to be, again, from the northern regions. >> christine, let's make one thing clear -- south jersey will have a very heavy thumb on the scale of

influence regardless of where the new governor lives. >> yeah. >> the only south jersey governor that's been elected in my memory is florio... >> florio. >> right. >> ...in a very long time. i think this comes down to a fight -- i grew up in south jersey, so i'm for senator sweeney. but i think this comes down to the mayor of jersey city, senator sweeney on the democratic side, and, unfortunately for south jersey, middlesex and essex county, which were in north jersey -- have always been the big voting bases like allegheny county and philadelphia. and i think, on the democratic side, it's a question of where senator booker is going to come down, who's emerging as the big power player. he from north philadelphia -- >> mm-hmm. >> north jersey. >> north jersey. yep. and whether or not -- and on the republican side, i don't know a lot about them, but you can never discount a guy who can self-fund, so phil murray is gonna be credible. kean obviously has the name. and the former lieutenant governor is obviously going to the think-tank which is a holding place to get ready to run for office. >> and the one thing that could change everything, that we'll talk about next here, is if

chris christie becomes the running mate for donald trump and donald trump wins. now, donald trump was in new jersey campaigning not only for himself, but also trying to reduce some of the debt that chris christie has obtained while he was actually running for president. we keep hearing christie's name being mentioned as a possible vice presidential candidate. he's the first former presidential candidate to endorse trump. he is, like trump, a billionaire -- is like trump, who is a billionaire, a maverick. he runs a state that could be a nice pick-up for republicans. and christie, as far as anyone i think can tell, would accept the job. or would he? >> no, i don't think he would. i think if it -- why would you carry the gatorade for the president as vp when you can become the attorney general, which is probably the second most important cabinet position in the country, with powers even to investigate the president, mind you. so i think if he had a choice, which i believe he probably has, he would probably pick attorney general. i don't think he helps trump in

new jersey. his favorability ratings are so low that it's not a factor anymore. >> and that concentration of testosterone in one ticket -- now, not that there's anything wrong with it, but, i mean, they really don't help balance each other out. they are the mirror image of each other, except for the fact that chris christie is a smart and savvy, educated lawyer, whereas donald trump is much more of the "gotcha-getcha" businessman -- get you by the throat. i just don't see -- i don't see what diverse demographic either one of them appeals to. i think they -- they appeal to the same exact demographic. >> and it'd be so supersized. you have the big mac and the whopper coming together. >> but i think -- >> ed, tell me this -- trump's campaign up to this point has always been not about strategy, and so picking christie would go against everyone's thinking, which is what trump has done all along. >> yes, but i do think that christie is a bit of a stretch. i do not see where he helps him in a nationwide election that is

really 50 different elections, right? that's why you got to be very careful when somebody throws a poll at you as to who's up or who's down for the presidency. you need to get to 270 electoral votes. you need to break this into 50 pieces... >> but -- >> ...find 270, and i don't see where chris christie does it -- >> the fact that sarah palin is a potential pick -- >> she's not! >> that's not serious. >> "they're throwing her name in because they want to make her feel good," is what you're saying, right? >> no. not a chance. >> given a choice, chris christie would want to be vice president of the united states, 'cause it puts him in line to the job that he wants, and that's president of the united states -- hard to get there from attorney general. and in the vice pres-- the only vice president in my lifetime who was ever a candidate who's ever made a difference was lyndon johnson, who helped kennedy win texas. otherwise, vice presidential candidates in -- >> gerald ford. >> is -- [ laughter ] >> otherwise, vice presidential candidates are -- but i don't think he makes him -- i do think he goes to attorney general. >> let me ask you this -- if trump picks a man, is it

because he couldn't convince a woman to be his running mate? >> [ laughs ] >> i'm just asking. >> i don't see a woman who would -- nikki haley clearly is not a supporter of donald trump, and i think that most of the women -- >> jan brewer would come in. if he wanted a woman, he could get jan brewer, but i don't think it adds -- there are a handful of, you know, women, but i -- predominantly i think he has turned them all off. i think it'll be difficult to convince a serious woman to be a vp candidate. >> yeah. >> let's talk about the democrats real quick. the convention's coming up in the summer here in philadelphia, and a lot of leading democrats are concerned that the violence, really, that we saw in nevada with their convention, with the bernie sanders supporters might happen here. do you think there's a chance of that spilling into philadelphia? it is a couple of months away. >> i think there's a modest chance, though i think by then you're gonna have had a month and a half of when all the of the primaries are gonna be over, all of the discussions will take place between senator sanders and his camp and secretary clinton and

her camp, and i think they get much of it resolved. >> the air will be out of the balloon. >> remember, there very hard feelings between the clinton camp and the obama camp going into the -- not this hostility, not the violence, but real serious hostility and dislike between their campaigns. they worked it out. i agree with george. >> but what a great story. i mean, who thought that the democrats at this stage would still be in flux and fighting? >> yeah. >> you may -- >> you never thought that. >> you may have some disruptions between city hall and independence hall, because that's where i think a number of these permits -- i think nine have been issued. >> sure. protesting permits. >> right, but it's not gonna be chicago '68. you won't see anything on the floor of the convention. we may never see that again. >> i think you'll see a battle for the platform. >> right. >> what bernie sanders has done is a lasting legacy... >> but out of the public eye. >> ...pulling the nation further to the left, and also pulling hillary's campaign further left. and i think that's probably what you'll see, platform battle. >> and on your comment, christine, about how it's the opposite convention that we thought would be the big problem -- this is the

george costanza election. >> [ laughs ] >> everything that is happening is the opposite of what you thought would happen. we'll be right back. >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact.

♪ >> back with "inside story." now, law enforcers, some of them

out there, are debating this "viral video effect." it's the new name for what had been known as the ferguson effect, which sought to explain a rise in homicide rates in major u.s. cities. now, that's still happening in places, like here in philadelphia. we're up 15% from last year at this point. chicago, los angeles, dallas, las vegas -- other cities are not seeing this, though, so it's not widespread. the viral video theory goes like this -- the spread of internet videos showing police being caught abusing suspects has led to some police being reluctant to confront criminals. do you buy it, ed? >> yes, and i do think that it's in the minds of officers. they're very concerned about how they move, and as a result, it causes a delay in action and it's not one of sober reflection. it's more driven by concern and fear. i do think there is something to this. >> i agree with ed to the extent that i do think that there is an effect, and i do think that on the part of some police officers

who are dedicated to their jobs, there is that sense of, "what is going to happen if i react in a certain way?" but i don't agree with the fbi director that this is sort of the prevailing reason that we would see a spike in homicide rates, especially since new york city showed a significant drop. and i just wanted to make one quick mention, since we're talking about police officers. this week president obama, to his great credit, awarded the medal of valor to sergeant robert wilson, who gave his life on the streets of philadelphia. this is a man who was not deterred by any video or any sense that he was going to be, you know, stopped. so, i think that that's really the story here, that we still have warriors in the streets. >> and you bring up the fbi director, who actually was the one talking about this idea. and then the obama administration pointing out, you know, we're not seeing it in other spots in the country. so how can you make this correlation? >> but i think -- look.

you know, whether the ferguson effect or the vitriol effect, whatever -- you know, police officers are not that often in the place where spontaneous killings are taking place, or planned killings are taking place. what you're seeing in america is a rebirth of gangs, and so you're seeing a lot of gang activities. you're seeing it here in the city of philadelphia, a lot of it attached to what's going on in the heroin world where more and more people are now -- there are heroin corners now where there used to be other drug corners. so i think there are a whole host of reasons why this is happening. and in this country -- you know, chicago's a perfect example. in the early 2000s, they had 600 -- they had 200 murders a year. then in the middle they had 600o lower than philadelphia. >> a lot of it has to do with -- we're becoming a two-class society instead of a three-class society. you're either pushing up or pushing down. >> i'll just add that nearly half of those major cities looked at had murder rates that dropped, and there's no parallel to see where wealth inequality

or other -- so there's no pattern here. and i don't know if it would be wise to reach -- or jumping to conclusion about a pattern tied to all of this. >> yeah, just be careful not to use murders as the only metric. >> sure. >> because violent crime is not nearly as subdued as the murder numbers would suggest. >> we're also more aware of it compared to in the past, because of social media. >> we can't defer the fact that it's happening now. >> yeah. >> we've got to give comfort to people that people are responding to it. and all these intellectual people are saying, "wait for the trend." well, it's up now... >> mm-hmm. >> ...and people want something done about it now. >> sometimes you can see patterns when you're not seeing a pattern at all, right? we'll see. but let's talk about the sugary drinks tax, get an update on that. mayor kenney's still hoping for the three-cent-per-ounce tax to help pay for pre-k. darrell clarke, the city council president, is saying, "well, let's see about what we can do with half a cent, maybe one cent"... and then there's this other

thing of, "is it worth it"? does pre-- everyone assumes pre-k does enormous good for children. does it really? is it worth the money to pay for, and can the city pull this off and have this up and running in a year... or two or a half a year? >> well, i think part of it has to be, how are they going to plan for pulling it off over a period of time? what the mayor campaigned on was universal pre-k for all children in the city of philadelphia -- whether it's three cent or one cent, you're not gonna get enough money to do it for all children in the city of philadelphia. and what i'm hopeful is that, you know, what happens -- and i hope the mayor continues with the program and council and he will figure out how to fund it. but the question's, "how do you keep it going so you actually do universal pre-k, you don't just check off a campaign promise with 3,000 to 5,000 kids getting --" >> can't be the only -- >> but there's no question that the early childhood education is important and produces benefits down the road. >> right. right. the goal is wonderful. the method is flawed, and i do

believe that is a regressive tax on a lower -- the lower-income population. and -- i hate diet soda, so all of this saying that there are alternatives to sugar -- have you ever tasted -- i mean, have you tasted a coke zero? i mean, seriously... >> honestly, i only drink water, pretty much. >> that makes two of us. >> oh, please. >> really. >> george is right about sustainability over time. it's absolutely critical because what sense does it make to have a program that runs for two years and then goes away? >> mm-hmm. >> right. >> i think you wind up causing more calamity, quite frankly. >> sure. >> that said, please, please, please -- consider the catholic school system because you have a force multiplier there. you don't need to spend the same number of dollars. they're there to help, and if you really want to stretch your money and make it work and maybe not have as regressive a tax, that's something to consider. >> maybe they're listening right now. we'll be right back with "inside stories of the week." ♪

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. >> "inside stories of the week." we start with george. >> i was disappointed to see the pew foundation put out a study that looked at gentrification only from 2000 to 2015 and conclude that it's not really a problem in the city of philadelphia, where if you go back to the 1990s, northern liberties, manayunk, southwest center city, a number of the places that are already gentrified. they should have put it in a bigger context, because it is a problem in the city of philadelphia and continues to be one that momentum is continuing. >> thanks, george. christine? >> matt, liberals and progressives usually want to stay out of the bedroom, but apparently they don't have too much of a problem going into the bathroom. this week president obama issued an executive order, which would require public schools to make available, or to permit, students who identify as a

gender that they were not born with physically, to allow them to go into the bathroom that they identify with. this could cause serious problems because the schools are not prepared for that, and there's no requirement that there be single stalls. so i just find it quite ironic that while we have to stay out of one in the room in the house, we should be able to barge into the next room. >> thanks, christine. ajay. >> i don't have a bathroom story, but philadelphia is host this weekend to indiaspora, which is an invitation-only davos-like conference of indians from around the country and a few from india itself. the top innovators, mostly silicon valley folks who are gathered here to talk about innovation, and it's great that philadelphia's hosting them. they were supposed to go to silicon valley and boston as a second choice, but we stole them here, so it's a good event. >> yeah. >> thanks, ajay. ed. >> matt, one of the great, all-time good guys, wonderful corporate citizen of our region, bill sautter, the president and owner of elliott-lewis corporation, is

being honored as we speak by la salle university at its commencement. so to bill sautter and his wife, claire, all the graduates at la salle, everyone at elliott-lewis corporation, congratulations and well done, mr. sautter. >> all right. george, christine, ajay, ed, thanks for joining us, and thanks to governor wolf. aside from his politics, he's actually a really funny guy. not many people get to see that. >> he likes the phillies. >> and he likes the phillies. so thanks to him, as well. that's "inside story" for this week. we'll see you next week. i'll see you monday morning. i'm nydia han along with gray hall. coming up next, peco is working to restore power to dozens of homes after an underground explosion forced families out overnight. a triple shooting in chester leaves a teenager dead another in critical condition. experts are pushing for parents to have boundaries on social media before posting the embarrassing pictures of their

children, we'll have the recommended guidelines. those stories and more next on "action news."

good afternoon, it is sunday, may 22 i'm nydia han along with gray hall. here's some of the stories we're following on "action news." an underground explosion forced families from the