>> a once-promising rookie politician comes crashing to the ground and may end up doing jail time. "inside story" starts right now. ♪ good morning, everyone. i'm matt o'donnell. it is sunday, august 21, 2016. time for "inside story." before we get into the discussion, we meet our insiders of the week. we have harold jackson, journalist from the philadelphia inquirer. >> thank you, matt. glad to be here. >> yep. christine flowers, journalist, attorney. good morning, christine. >> hi, matt. >> nelson diaz, former judge and attorney. >> good morning. how are you, matt? >> and dom giordano, radio talk-show host. good morning, dom. >> morning. you can add journalist to that, too. >> okay. journalist, as well. hey, i'm one, as well. [ laughter ] kathleen kane was elected pennsylvania attorney general in 2012. she received more votes than president obama that year in the state. now, talk quickly surfaced of her one day running for the u.s. senate, or even governor. now she faces the possibility of

staring at a jail cell for a time much longer than she even served in harrisburg. a jury spent just over four hours deciding to convict the democrat of perjury and obstruction of justice. kane announced the next day that she would be resigning, and then did so, even though she could have remained on the job until her sentencing, which is scheduled for october 24th. the maximum sentence for these charges -- 28 years in jail. that's -- she's not getting 28 years in jail. does anyone here, though, think she will spend a day in jail for this? anyone? anyone? >> i don't, ma whether the judge also allows her to continue to be out on bail during the appeal process. >> why do you think that there's no chance, christine? >> i think that, primarily -- well, let me paraphrase a former president. our long commonwealth nightmare is over. >> i think that the goal of this prosecution was to simply get her out of office.

the legislature didn't do it when they had the opportunity to do it after her license was suspended. i think that... she was convicted on all nine counts, two felonies -- serious felonies. attorney general lying under oath to a grand jury. i have a feeling, though -- and as the judge said, there is an appeal. they laid the groundwork for that appeal when they said, "you didn't allow us to use the they're going to try and arrive at some kind of a plea deal. because i really don't think they want to have to go through the whole -- the horrific publicity of trying to put the first -- and, in my opinion, the last in my lifetime -- female democratic attorney general for the commonwealth of pennsylvania in jail. the optics are bad. >> the only thing i would -- i know the judge is also a female, and a very tough judge. very much by the book. very buttoned up, et cetera. so i would say that's a wild card. i could see, potentially, some

kind of sentence. minimal -- medium-security or low-security. but, yeah, there could be something. >> harold, you, on the editorial board of the philadelphia inquirer, endorsed her back in 2012. i mean, she received so many accolades early on, and even early on in her office she got a lot of, "hey, you know, she's doing a great job." she had the endorsement of president clinton. remember him appearing in the campaign commercial? how can she turn around and be, apparently, so unprepared for the vigors of a high office in pennsylvania? >> well, the possibility was always there, because the office that she held was a lower office. you know, she didn't have a great track record as a jurist. but what she seemed to bring was a breath of fresh air, someone who was not tainted by the politics of pennsylvania. we in philadelphia certainly didn't know how entrenched in politics her family actually was in the western part of the state. so, it was an unknown, it was a risk. it's the same risk that voters take, that the inquirer takes in endorsing her. we're extremely disappointed.

you know, she is not the person that we endorsed, and she is not the person that we thought she would be. >> let me tell you, one of the panelists, terry madonna, wrote a great piece. and in that piece -- >> "politically uncorrected." >> yes. and in that piece, essentially, he emphasized the fact of her little paranoia in terms of the "old boy" network. and she also was not -- in the sense of the corruption that occurs within the government, it was essentially moves that showed her inexperience and her lack of trust within the process. and so you have to put her in that place. so, many, many, many have leaked grand jury issues before. >> and gotten away with it. >> well, you know, but they've leaked -- none have ever been caught. because there's been the press relationships. she basically got caught, and to some extent, the damage that she got was the fact that she covered it. and that's usually the case. >> i think i might know what you're gonna bring up -- porngate. >> well, porngate, but also --

>> 'cause some would say that is something good that came out of her administration, exposing what people were doing on state time with state computers. >> yeah. well, it sort of -- it was despite her that it happened. she actually used porngate in a very strategic, manipulative way. she only released, at the beginning, those e-mails that would have tainted her political enemies, like fina. and, you know, the judges got caught up in it as well. but i was listening to what one of the jurors -- i think his name was golosa -- was saying, and to the judge's point, he was talking about how truly inept she was, and how the mistakes that she made were such amateurish mistakes. and they were fueled -- and i hate to say this. i'm the woman here. but they were fueled by almost this sense of vengeance, this "mean girl" kind of "i'm gonna go after you because, you know, you're a part of that old boy network, and i'm gonna -- and they're gonna protect me, because i'm gonna be able to go

out there and shield myself in this protective shield of being the avenging woman." and it didn't work. >> i think, matt, too, kathleen kane actually believed this, versus just as a political construct, the old boys network, to go after them. she actually was self-righteous about it. i, in the beginning, thought she was the ultimate lightweight. i mean, it was incredible as a lightweight. and she was elected because of star power, the clintons. the republican was not very good, either. and i didn't have expectations. i was wondering when republicans were gonna push back. but they were afraid because of the star power. >> why no defense? why did she not...? >> i don't think she had a defense. i think that's the bottom line. >> or, some would say, maybe her team was afraid there would be more perjury? >> well, i think that the... >> possible? >> being a trial lawyer, there's no question that the minimum you would have done was put, you know, reputation witnesses on and so forth. i just believe that they felt that once the judge ruled on the issue of not being able to bring in the retaliation issues --

which may be an appealable process. i think that that's the only game that she had. and if she had that, on the retaliation, then she could have brought other witnesses, including the good reputation that she may or may not have had. >> bruce castor is the acting attorney general. he served as her deputy. and there's all this stuff that, sort of, you know, he was a former montgomery count d.a., which prosecuted the case. he ran for attorney general back in 2004. now he's the acting. and then we have inspector general bruce beemer, who governor wolf has nominated to fill out her last couple of months or so. do you think that beemer's going to get the approval of the legislature? >> absolutely. the republicans don't like castor, so they don't want him in that position. the governor has already gone to the republican legislature and received approval. all they have to do, essentially, is confirm him. and he's only gonna be serving five months. but they wouldn't even let bruce castor serve five months. >> right.

>> well, i don't think they want someone who was hand-picked by kathleen kane to succeed her. >> but he was a witness against her. >> is governor wolf trying to say something by appointing beemer, who testified against kane during the trial? >> well, it's also fear of bruce castor. i know him, like him. i have him on the air a lot. and he -- in five months, he wasn't just gonna sit there. there would be a lot of -- he said on my show the other day, matt, "oh, yeah. five months is a long time." i think that's dangerous. >> well, he told you about morrow, didn't he? about possibly prosecuting morrow. >> he talked about pretty open stuff. >> he did bring that up the next day. >> exactly right. yeah. yeah, so, yeah. >> though morrow is breathing a sigh of relief. >> well, he's not well-liked by democrats or republicans, so that's part of it. and, also, there's an election going on. >> i was just gonna bring that up. >> and they're both from montgomery county, and so is castor, from montgomery county. >> let me ask you this, nelson. will this resolution, at this point, with kane, help josh shapiro or his opponent, john rafferty, in this election or not? or hurt him? >> well, i think the hillary campaign, and the landslide is gonna help shapiro. so i don't think it has anything

to do with this situation. >> anyone else? >> well, i don't know about a landslide. we'll see. but... >> not in pennsylvania. >> yeah. well -- yeah, in pennsylvania. we'll see. i may be an outlier here. >> it's 10% right now. >> okay. there's 80 days left. or who's counting? >> unless there's an october surprise. >> exactly. >> november surprise. a late-september surprise. >> [ laughs ] >> let's talk about the u.s. senate race in pennsylvania. you have katie mcginty trying to unseat republican incumbent pat toomey in november. now, the center for responsive politics says this is the most expensive senate race in u.s. history, with $52 million spent so far. anyone surprised by that number or that distinction? >> yeah, i am. i knew it was intense, but the all-time, given some of the big spenders and self-funding and all that? that is incredible. >> i think the fact that toomey changed his position on a couple of political issues, like tpp, you know, the trans-pacific partnership, shows that he's really in major trouble. >> he originally supported it. and now, a couple of days ago,

he said he's against it. >> he originally -- he voted in favor of the fast-tracking of it for president obama. but he did, in recent days, start talking about how, for example, dairy farmers in pennsylvania would be prejudiced by not having the same standing as canadian dairy farmers. he was worried about some of the i.t. and the scientific technology issues. so, it really -- in a sense, there is some kind of logic to his pulling back on this. although, in the larger picture, i do know that, you know, obviously with -- >> do you agree with that, harold? >> well, i think she said the key words -- "in recent days" he's changed, you know. and this information that she's mentioning, it was available long before recent days. it's the fact that, as nelson said, that he's in trouble now that he's shifted course. and he has a record of supporting trade agreements, not just this one. >> tpp, sort of like nafta, you know, free trade, but this with the pacific. nafta, trump people -- doesn't match.

>> right. >> toomey unsure about whether he's gonna endorse trump. but wanting the trump supporters, and needing them. >> mm-hmm. >> i mean, there's a lot going on behind the scenes right here. and don't you think toomey's really in almost an impossible bind? >> it's difficult for him. but also look at his opponent. i mean, everybody is talking about how it's the year of the woman. well, not for women named kathleen. and it's also -- i mean, yes, hillary does have a strong 10-point lead in pennsylvania. but mcginty, you can't look at it as the anti-toomey here. you have to look at what does mcginty bring to the table? and she has so many flaws. and i will tell you something. when i was doing my hair -- doesn't it look great? -- in the ladies' room, on the tv, an anti-toomey, pro-mcginty ad comes on. and it was dishonest, because it had little splices of donald trump -- it was a subliminal anti donald trump -- and it was saying that pat toomey is for a ban on abortion, as if he's for a ban

on all abortions. and people have to remember, katie mcginty is one of the most pro-abortion rights candidates that is running, you know, nationally. so people who really care about those pro-life issues, you know, they're not necessarily going to be flocking to katie mcginty. especially not if you're a pro-life woman. >> it may not be the vote that prevails in pennsylvania, either. but you're right. i will agree with you that she is, in terms of other candidates, lightweight compared to others. but in this race, it may not matter that she doesn't have the credentials that you're talking about. she's held some very high-profile positions in state government in pennsylvania. >> she had ethics problems, harold. >> i mean, she may have. but, again, toomey -- >> i mean, just in that position, she was investigated. >> again, what toomey's problems that he has, and his association with trump -- if he wants to get rid of those problems, there's an easy way to do that. disavow any connection with that candidate. and i agree with you that if he did that, he probably would move up in the polls. >> does anyone think that he would do that? >> no, i don't think he's gonna do that. i don't think he's gonna endorse, either. and i don't think he would move up. he has a problem with the base. i know, with my listeners, with

toomey, they like him a lot, he did a gun thing that was sort of moderate. >> but didn't go anywhere. >> right. but if he disavowed donald trump at all, that would be fatal to him at this point. his issue is sanctuary cites, illegal immigration in other parts of the state, tying mcginty to that, who has said just about nothing on it. >> let's do, real quick, hillary clinton, donald trump. now, hillary clinton has been in pennsylvania campaigning. at the same time, she's pulling all of her ads out of pennsylvania, telling people that, "i'm pretty comfortable. i'm not gonna spend any more money." there she is in scranton with vice president joe biden. at the same time, donald trump said he is suspicious of the voting in pennsylvania. he claimed that if he loses the state -- and this was said when he was already behind in the polls -- it would be because of cheating. >> well, you know... all of us know that there is some issue with regard to the integrity of voting, period. but when you have such a large lead as she does, 10%, 11%, if

you win with such a large lead, you can't cheat enough to be able to get that election. >> trump's statements were a mark of desperation. i mean, essentially he was calling the people of pennsylvania cheats. you know, the type of fraud -- >> i agree. >> the type of fraud he's alluding to has not occurred in pennsylvania. when the republicans tried to get the voter i.d. law to stay in effect, they could not prove that that type of voter fraud had occurred in pennsylvania. not one case of voter fraud at the polls. so for him to allege that is an insult to pennsylvanians. >> i agree with harold. and there has been a history of -- not necessarily in pennsylvania, but nationally, of voter intimidation. and you said -- there hasn't been voter fraud to the extent that there has been established voter intimidation. and although i don't say that trump is calling for intimidation, his words are always -- he always has to come back and say, "well, i didn't mean that. i meant this." you know, i speak four languages, and i still can't figure out what he's saying. >> i would only ask, though, why does philadelphia have this national reputation, second to none, and guys like john fund,

wall street journal, reputable journalist, talk about some of the issues here with alleged fraud and just -- talk about intimidation on election day of people that don't get to seat if they're a republican poll watcher. >> we'll be right back with more "inside story" after the break. >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact.

fios is not cable. we're wired differently. so we wired the wagner's house with 100 meg internet. which means that in the time it takes mr. wagner to pour a 20 oz. cup of coffee, tommy can download 30 songs, and jan can upload 120 photos. 12 seconds. that's the power of fiber optics. and right now you can get 100 meg internet with equal upload and dowloads speeds, tv and phone for just $69.99 per month online. cable can't offer internet speeds this fast at a price this good. only fios can. i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs]

♪ >> back with "inside story." a little city politics here for you, as the city controller is questioning former mayor nutter's spending practices. and then nutter goes and calls him a snake. [ laughter ] alan butkovitz says review of surplus funds from previous philadelphia marathons turned up questionable spending practices among the nutter administration, including hotel rooms, a trip to rome, and a pair of shoes. [ laughter ] nutter fired back quickly, saying "butkovitz is a liar, a snake, and a hypocrite. there is no truth in what he says. every expenditure was proper and for an approved purpose." mayor nutter was mr. ethics, and always was throughout his campaign and throughout his administration. and this is the first thing that really has come up. so, what's the story here? what's the inside story here? >> well, i think, first of all, that the mayor's comments were uncalled for, what he called mr. butkovitz.

however, you do wonder why this report comes out now, post the nutter administration, when the activities he's alluding to have been evident for several years. i mean, the real problem is the fact that they have created, in this agency of the city representative, authority over the marathon. it's not very effective. the broad street run is run much more effectively, actually makes more money with the broad street run, it's run by the department of parks and recreation. they could do the same thing with the broad street run. instead, they put it in the city representative's office, it does serve as a slush fund for the mayor. it didn't just occur after he left office. so, it's probably -- it is something. not probably. it is something that should change. but why the controller decided, after the mayor leaves office, to point out these inadequacies, these deficiencies -- it is a problem. but, again, the mayor's response was inappropriate. >> well, del bianco, who works in the administration now, asked for the investigation. and i think he was trying to show how well the dnc operation

worked, and how poorly the pope visit was taken without the expenditures and without those same issues. and i think that's what they're trying to highlight. >> and then all this other stuff sort of just comes out of nowhere, and they're like, "oh." >> that's right. yep. to shoes at macy's. [ laughs ] >> $80 shoes. back when nutter was mayor, i don't really remember there being a -- and maybe i'm wrong, but there being butkovitz and him butting heads. because he served as city controller throughout his administration. >> well, they did a little bit on the school system. on the school board and the src. there was a continual fight with regard to -- >> so, is this sort of the pot boiling over situation, or...? >> i don't know about that. butkovitz is kind of an outlier, though, among democrats. the other day, in an interview, he was talking about the fact there's always someone that runs against him. jonathan saidel, nothing. >> mm-hmm. >> so he does things in his own way. but that would be my explanation. i don't know if there's personal animus. but he is not a guy inside the

democrat party that seems to follow whatever the rules are. >> i agree with you. i think there are a lot of democrats that don't feel very warm and fuzzy about alan butkovitz. he is a war leader. he has been involved in city politics for a long time, which means he has to have friends within the party. but there are those who do have disparaging remarks to make about him. >> thinking back, a lot of people thought he was gonna run for mayor if darrell clarke didn't. >> several times he's threatened to, yeah. >> and darrell clarke didn't... >> right. and he still didn't do it. >> ...and he still didn't jump in. >> well, the real reason is that they were looking for the whole johnny doc imprimatur. and when he didn't get -- >> which you were not. >> yeah, which i was not. right. [ laughter ] and when he didn't get that, he realized that he really didn't have a chance in terms of whoever they put up as a candidate. >> and that johnny doc imprimatur is so valuable these days. it's really, you know -- >> i still think it might be in philadelphia. >> well, we'll see what happens with mayor kenney. >> we'll see, yes. as we always say. the philadelphia district attorney is in the spotlight for spending of his own. seth williams belatedly reported

receiving $160,000 in gifts between 2010 and 2015 as d.a. we're talking about roof repairs, cash gifts from friends, free airfare, lodging to key west and the dominican republic. williams' lawyer says the d.a. wasn't paying attention to election-reporting requirements. was this simply oversight or something more sinister? >> matt, i mean, you know, for it to come -- look at the context right here. you have an attorney general who was just convicted of perjury. felony charges. you have a district attorney now, hasn't been convicted of anything, but the optics of this are really bad. we're talking about -- the inquirer had a fabulous editorial about we deserving -- we, the people of pennsylvania, deserving better than this. this is laziness at the very least. and, you know, i have both criticized and praised seth williams for the work that he's done in office. this has nothing to do with his prosecutorial skills and, you know, his discretion in choosing cases. this has to do with personal ethics.

and i'm sorry, you know, the whole idea -- well, first of all, that loophole where you don't have to report "gifts" from "friends," that needs to be closed, because the definition of what a friend is can be so broad. that pulls a lot into this. i mean, a friend could somebody that you see on the street. >> it could be just two people that have the same enemies. >> exactly. >> but, matt, i was made administrative judge, when we lost 12 judges because they received gifts from roofers. he got a $45,000 gift from a roofer. and the supreme court totally eliminates 12 judges. we had such a backlog that i had to run the court system. and it took a long time, almost 10 years, to get that backlog. the question is, he's also a judicial officer. and, really, it doesn't smell right to be able to receive gifts. and i think there should be a policy, generally, no gifts at all from anyone. and that would essentially take care of these issues. >> really quick, harold, really quick -- are you satisfied with his explanation of

seth williams? >> no, i'm not. and i agree with the new judge. but, you know, seth doesn't need a policy. here's a guy who went after the legislators, the other politicians who were accused of taking gifts, and prosecuted them just months ago. so for him to be involved in this type of behavior, it's just wrong, and he know it's wrong. >> we got to go. inside stories of the week coming up. ♪ for senate, a clear difference. katie mcginty: for background checks, for banning assault weapons, and banning high-capacity ammunition clips. and pat toomey? against an assault weapons ban and against banning high capacity ammo clips like those used in the orlando massacre. listen to pat toomey brag:

"i have had a perfect record with the nra." pat toomey gets an "a" from the nra. he's not for you. senate majority pac is responsible for the content of this advertising.

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. >> inside stories of the week. we start with harold. >> the inside story for me is what's happening between the school district and the teachers union as the school year is about to begin. we had the superintendent this past week saying that there are talks occurring. we have the teachers union saying there are no talks occurring. we need to get some resolvement of this. the teachers have been without a contract for years now. and hopefully it will get done. >> thanks, harold.

christine. >> matt, panel discussions are a dime a dozen these days. there are some great ones, like this, and there are some mediocre ones. but the granddaddy and the founder of the panel discussion was john mclaughlin, former jesuit, former friend of nixon. he really, really created this -- what we're doing here today. and if he were here today and he asked me my name, and i said, "christine flowers," he'd go, "wrong! it's dom giordano." [ laughter ] >> thank you, christine. nelson. >> well, you know, the press doesn't always cover things that are extremely important to a local community. in the puerto rican community, puerto rico got the first gold medal ever. the national anthem was played for the first time. incredible. mónica puig. but not only that, there was another great puerto rican from new jersey -- laurie hernandez, who was incredible in gymnastics. so the puerto rican community is extremely proud of their contributions. >> thanks, nelson. dom. >> those are very tough to follow. my inside story is something i'm promoting with some pennsylvania legislators. in illinois, they just recently

signed a bill -- driver's ed. something good, though. they mandate that kids would have to be taught, maybe even with a cop there, about what to do during a traffic stop. seems simple -- hands on the wheel and all that. given all the tension that's out there and everything else, i think this is a good thing to do, and a thing that might unify people a little bit to talk about how both sides are feeling when you're at a traffic stop. >> thank you very much. hey... what's your favorite color, jack truman? [ laughter ] >> blue! wrong! green! no! that's "inside >> i'm nydia han along with gray hall. >> coming up next on "action news," one man is dead and a five-year-old girl is recovering after a shooting in burlington. we're live. >> a pass you are by alerts firefighters to a house on fire in montgomery county. a girl recovers from unbelievable incident, she was trapped under a boat for nearly an hour, her family talking

about what happened. those stories next on "action news."

>> good afternoon, sunday, august 21, i'm in i'm nydia han along with gray hall. >> the search is on after a driver crashes into a car in delaware and takes off. plus, ryan lochte's apology, the olympian is speaking out and saying sorry about that