>> donald trump says he may not accept the election results, saying the race is being rigged, especially in places like philadelphia. what does that mean for our election day? let's get the inside story. ♪ good morning. i'm tamala edwards. welcome to "inside story." we're already talking among ourselves. we can't wait to get into this topic. let's introduce you to who's on the panel. we'll start with attorney ajay raju. good morning. >> morning. >> marketing executive brian tierney. >> good morning. >> good morning. nonprofit exec donna gentile o'donnell. >> good morning, tamala. >> and journalist christine flowers. >> morning, tam. >> so, the third debate is in the books. a lot was talked about, but there was one moment that continues to be the key moment that we continue to discuss. let's show it to you right now. >> i want to ask you here on this stage tonight -- do you make the same commitment, that you will absolutely -- sir -- that you will absolutely accept

the result of this election? >> i will look at it at the time. i'm not looking at anything now. i'll look at it at the time. >> there is a tradition in this country -- in fact, one of the prides of this country is the peaceful transition of power. are you saying you're not prepared now to commit to that principle? >> what i'm saying is that i will tell you at the time. i'll keep you in suspense, okay? >> well, chris, let me respond to that, because that's horrifying. >> so, donald trump's saying when the vote is done, he may not accept it. one of the key things that he bases this on is the idea that he says the vote is being rigged, and he picks out places like philadelphia to say this is where it's being rigged. what evidence he has, it's not really clear. and speaking of evidence, let's talk about this -- people go to two places to talk about this issue, a loyola law study that was done and the brennan center for justice. the loyola law study, the professor looked at a billion votes going back to the year 2000. he found 31 that were questionable, so the evidence doesn't seem to be there, yet

this idea, is it gathering purchase? are there people who believe, no matter what you say, the evidence, that this vote is being rigged? >> i think there's people who would believe pretty much anything, if you find some subgroup of subgroup. but the fact of the matter is elections aren't rigged. that's why you have poll watchers. i chaired a mayoral campaign here in philadelphia. we made sure we had people at every spot. it's just -- it's an incredible disservice, first of all, to the country, okay? and i have voted for a republican for president every year since 1976 when i was 19 years old, so... on the other side of it, too, it's so foolish for him from a marketing perspective. to win -- he has his base, he has to get 50% plus one more vote, and to do that, he has to not play into the stereotypical that he's out of control, that he's divisive, that he shouldn't have his finger on the nuclear button, and this is what he's kind of emphasizing again and again and again. >> well, trump -- i'm sorry. >> no, no. go. >> trump never lets the truth stand in the way of what he wants to say. this is a man who is barely acquainted with facts and makes

broad, bold statements based on nothing to little. it's just that that's sort of his orientation. and to pick up on what brian was saying about poll watchers -- there's a system in pennsylvania, if you want to make sure that your candidate is protected, you file a poll-watching certificate, and you show up, and it gives you broader latitude. that's not happening in pennsylvania. there is no trump campaign. there is trump. and so it's really dangerous what he's doing. >> but, christine, i want to come to a point with you on this. we saw a bipartisan group of leaders -- darrell clarke, al schmidt, who's a republican, david thornburgh from the committee of seventy, come out and say this is ridiculous, not going to happen. yet there is the perception in philadelphia -- people talk about philadelphia corruption all the time, so how do voters play out with those two ideas on election day? >> well, you know -- and to piggyback on what donna and brian said -- the facts are not there. you have these public officials coming out and clearly stating, basically echoing what you said,

there is an infinitesimal instance of actual fraud. there's more of an instance of voter suppression then there is of voter fraud. but i want to say one thing. the optics of the problem here, because you can -- it's sort of like whisper down the lane. you'll say something, and it'll get bigger and bigger and bigger, and people have this generalized idea of fraud. you know, i do immigration law, and i do a good bit of asylum. and in the past three weeks, i have had three cases of individuals who are seeking asylum based on political persecution from countries where there really are rigged elections, and the result of that is that you get a one-way ticket to jail or worse. so, what trump has done is offensive to me personally, and at a larger level, in attacking the foundational principle of our system, the freedom of the franchise. >> ajay, trump is also saying "go out to the polls," you know, "go and be the eyes and ears," which there are designated people who are supposed to do that. they're not prepared for just average people to show up and do

that. what could we be seeing in philadelphia and in the suburbs and all around our region on election day? >> i think donald trump is the kind of guy who starts a fire and then organizes a search party to find the arsonist. [ laughter ] so, the comments that he's making right now about the rigged election and potential implied threats against an institutionalized rigging of election, that's a dog whistle, dog whistle to a base that is -- it's lighting a match next to a powder keg. where we do have institutionalized evidence of election rigging, it's growing states, especially in the jim crow south, where we have voter i.d. laws, where you have elimination of early voting, disenfranchisement of felons, where you have targeted groups where the suppression of vote is evident. that is not what donald trump is talking about. what he is suggesting instead is, you know, let's make the election a bit more difficult for those who -- in a different way, intimidation, where it makes it difficult for people to come out and vote. >> do we need to worry about the

overall issue, not just if he comes out the day after the election and says, "i don't accept it," but if people who were voting for him say, "this is what we're based on. my guy didn't win, but i accept it." will people come out and say, "i don't accept it"? will we see any sort of armed violence in the wake of this? >> well, god forbid that's the case, and i feel like -- and hillary clinton herself is such a flawed candidate in so many ways, but you feel like at least you can, perhaps, measure the downside with her. you know, the arkansas values, the "is" is, all that sort of stuff. but with him, it seems immeasurable. it is -- even trump's daughter said that he should concede. his campaign manager said he should concede the race if he loses. >> his running mate. >> his running mate. >> but will we see violence? will we see people -- what will we see here if people say, "we don't accept the results"? >> i think there's a chance of seeing some violence. my hope, also, is that there is, after this is over -- there's such disgust among republicans and democrats, that there's gonna be a certain kind of post-9/11 "let's find ways to work together." >> a level of healing that that needs to be had. >> yeah, let's find ways to work together. >> you know, the people who are supporting trump say, "well,

you know, there's precedent for this with al gore" -- completely different situation, and, you know, it's apples and oranges. so there really is no precedent for what he did. >> well, let's talk about what can make the difference, 'cause many people say if the vote is big enough, these augments won't hold. we see trump and clinton in our region this weekend. why? because of philadelphia's suburbs. they're trying to get those voters. this was fascinating to me. bloomberg did a poll after the "access hollywood" tape came out. his support -- they said 80% of the people in the suburbs were bothered, that women, it was 67% to 24% -- 67% clinton, 24% trump. it collapsed on him. overall, 59% to 31%. can he get back those philadelphia suburbs? did he do what he needed to do with women in particular in that debate? answering the question about the tape, talking about abortion. did he do anything? >> those women are not coming back. they're not coming back. i think suburban republican women gave him every chance to make the case, and all of his advisers have been saying -- even president obama this week

said, "stop whining. go make your case about why people should be for you." that's the advice he's been getting consistently, and he hasn't done it. instead, a case has been made about him as opposed to the case he was making for him. >> the last election, the four counties surrounding philadelphia -- 22%. that was overall in pennsylvania in terms of election count. the women disadvantage for donald trump is 43%, as you just pointed out. without the women, he doesn't have a pathway to win pennsylvania. and i think the words "nasty woman" was the last nail in the coffin. >> i was going to ask about that. >> it was the last straw. >> the t-shirts that i've seen online, there was one that said "namaste: the nasty woman" -- [ laughter ] people are having a ball. >> "not a puppet. no puppet." yeah, i mean, it -- the suburban women around here that could vote for a republican are tom ridge, the folks who vote for congressman pat meehan -- they're those kinds of folks, conservative on certain issues, but also common-sense kind of conservatives, not crazed,

let-me-get-a-gun kind of conservatives. >> christine, i thought it was interesting when they got on abortion that he went to late-term abortion, a grisly procedure, and that maybe that was a way to try to pull back single-issue women. it's tricky, because we're talking about less than 1% of abortions. did he make up any room on that issue? >> i think -- well, you know -- actually, when i was watching the debate and i heard him talking about it -- because it was such a contrast, with what hillary clinton had just said -- i mean, she had a full-throated support for abortion rights across the board. so i was kind of rooting for him to come out and say something that was a little bit more subtle and honed and saying, you know, "we're gonna revisit this." but his attack on partial-birth abortion, on late-term abortion, was a bit too gross when he talked about pulling the baby out of the woman. i think of it that way, but i don't think it actually appealed to suggestible women, women who were on the edge. but can i say one thing about the "nasty woman" thing? all right. yeah.

there are a lot of people who were turned off by that, but i really think it underestimates the intelligence of the american woman and the suburban woman to say that because he said that, that's gonna trigger something in them and say, "he disrespects us." if they're still with him after everything else that happened, calling hillary a nasty woman is not -- >> but it's women on the fence who -- >> i've been called a lot worse than "nasty." >> except it was in proximity. >> i think it was more about the women on the fence who were trying to make a call. did he tip them one way or the other with something like that? let's talk about another race that's being affected -- pat toomey. they're not talking about the issues, they're talking about, "pat toomey, are you or are you not going to vote for donald trump?" 6abc hosting a debate tomorrow night, the final debate between him and katie mcginty. tight race. quinnipiac has him up by four points. it's closing. he had been by six a week ago. does he need to come out and answer this question as she calls him "fraidy-pat"? >> no, i don't think he does. i mean, he's trying to obviously keep all the trump support he can get, at the same time,

because if you're gonna vote for pat toomey or mcginty, you should look at his record, not one thing -- who he might vote for in an election booth two weeks later. so, i mean, i can see her trying to, you know, strap him to trump, but he's not wrong to play it the way he is. and i think it's -- look, i think a lot of people think the "safest" outcome for the country is perhaps hillary clinton getting elected but keeping the house and senate republican, a certain sense of the status quo, if you will, and we can get through this without having craziness. >> do you agree that he could say, "i decry what he's saying, i decry what he's doing, but i can't tell you how i'm gonna vote"? >> yeah, i have a problem with that, because i think that people that adopt that posture are basically saying, "i don't have any responsibility for this outcome, so i'm not gonna tell you what" -- i mean, i don't care that you tell me or you don't, but i think you have to face facts. the only thing standing between donald trump and the white house is hillary clinton. that is a fact. there is nothing else that will stop him from being president. so, people have to reconcile themselves to that. >> i think, one, voter turnout

will matter. and, two -- on both sides, whether it is bold denouncing of donald trump, which pat toomey has failed to do, whether that will affect a handful of independents. that will matter. but also the unforced, attention-grabbing errors that -- you know, the really confusing errors that the mcginty campaign has made, whether it's the endorsement for the police... >> right. >> all of those things have not died yet, and if that continues to sort of have traction until the last day of the election, that could also be a tipping point. >> it's also gotten so nasty. i wonder if people can cut through a million ads every time you go to commercial. >> yeah, yeah. >> doing my hair in the room -- we were in the room, and three toomey -- three anti-toomey ads came on. my thing is this, and i think brian actually touched upon it. this is an election about who we are going to have in the senate, and the balance of power in the senate. it's not about what one man, what one vote will be, of one man. and the thing -- and ajay actually referenced it, too --

the problem i see with mcginty's campaign is that she hasn't been focusing on her assets. she's been sort of obsessed with having pat toomey distance himself from this candidate. >> do people think about balance of power when they vote? do they think, "i want a democrat here and a republican there"? >> you know, there's been a trend away from... >> of ticket splitting. >> ...of ticket splitting. i think this election could change that, because i think there's -- because people are unhappy with the choices, they want to go someplace else. i think a lot of people are gonna vote for hillary that are not happy about it. i hear it from my republican friends who are very forthcoming in saying, "i'm gonna vote for her." >> but they'll vote republican down the ticket. >> yes, but i think they're gonna ticket-split all the way down. >> on monday, tomorrow, kathleen kane is supposed to be sentenced. prosecutors are saying they want what they're calling "a significant and stiff sentence." this could go up to 12 to 24 years. her attorneys are saying she has covered herself in disgrace. she's been embarrassed. she's got two boys that need her. she's already been punished. can we go for probation? very different ideas.

how should the judge rule? >> i can't belive i'm saying this, because i've spent a couple of years criticizing kathleen kane, but i think probation or house arrest, because i truly do believe that the message has been sent. i think that she has paid the price in the sense that she is ruined forever. she will never be able to hold public office. she probably won't be able to have a job outside of chick-fil-a. >> or practice law. >> so -- or practice law. so i think that -- i mean, i have been against her from the very -- from the first moment when she didn't defend doma, but i think it's time to just walk away and give her house arrest, give her probation, and let her sink into the anonymity we so deserve, we deserve. >> you're a lawyer, as well. how do you think the judge should look at this? >> well, not as a lawyer. i tip the scale in favor of mercy if possible, and i think to the extent that we can be merciful, we ought to be. has she made the job easy for

the judge? probably not, especially because of her posture on her way out. look, her legacy will be that she debased a judaical system in pennsylvania that was doing just fine debasing itself. [ laughter ] >> quickly, brian. >> other politicians have done some level of time when they've committed crimes, and i think we're looking at chaka fattah and others, as well. and i think -- you know, i'm not saying 12 years, but something -- to be treated fairly with other people who commit these same sort of crimes. >> some sort of time. >> yeah. >> but because we are revisiting sentencing... >> yes. >> ...we need to think about it in that context. >> all right. so we, quickly, have to go to a commercial. we'll be right back for more "inside story." >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact.

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and jan can upload 120 photos. 12 seconds. that's the power of fiber optics. this is your last chance to get super fast 100meg internet, tv and phone for just $69.99 per month online. hurry, our best offer ever ends soon. only from fios. i've always taken on the status quo. in harrisburg, they didn't like it when i stopped their perks and pushed for reform. as head of pennsylvania's third-largest county, i cut out wall street middlemen to protect pensions.

now, as chairman of the pennsylvania commission on crime, i'm leading the fight to stop the epidemic of heroin and opioid abuse. as attorney general, i'll prosecute anyone who scams our seniors. and i'll hold the oil and gas companies accountable to keep our drinking water safe. i'm josh shapiro. i'll be an attorney general who always fights for you. ♪ >> welcome back to "inside story." let's take a turn and talk about an argument that's going on around the d.a.'s office. so, the supreme court came out and said, retroactively, as well, juveniles cannot be sentenced to life without parole. you've got to go back and look at these cases. that's about 300 cases in philadelphia. a former prosecutor is attacking d.a. seth williams over a case of two boys who he says, "they should've gotten a light sentence. they made bad decisions." they were involved in a drug-house murder. if they'd been smart, he says they would've gotten eight years. instead, they did something that got them more. they've served almost 30 years. williams is coming out and saying, "i will only offer on

all of these cases 35 to life," and he's saying, "this is crazy. why are we doing it this way?" who is right in this case? >> i think the whole phenomena of re-examining sentencing across the board -- i mean, this is a national phenomena. we had president obama, for the very first time, visit a federal penitentiary. he's commuting sentences of people that have been unfairly sentenced, and i think that's the right thing to do. we need to change the mind-set of -- we lock up more people in this country than any other country in the world, including dictatorships. i mean, that's a frightening prospect. so we got to revisit this broadly, and it begins with these individual cases. >> seth williams having a tough time across the board in a number of places. and on this case, a district judge came out and got really angry and said, "you're just offering these sentences to make yourself look good." that's something you should take to heart that that does not sound good to the public -- and he's trying to run for re-election -- when a judge says, "you're just doing this to try to make yourself look good." >> i think, you know -- i agree with everything that

donna said, and what you're saying is actually the cherry on the top of this, because i think seth is in a desperate situation, and he wants to look good. again, the optics are important. i felt the same way when he indicated that he was going to yet again prosecute monsignor lynn. regardless of what you think about the substance of that case, the supreme court and the superior court kicked that case back down, and he is going to use taxpayer money to go after it. so, it's all about the way it looks. >> you know, brian and ajay, i was a little surprised when seth was first running. i did some events with him, and he talked about changing the way that we do judging and policing, more back in the community, "let's try to get people out of jail, let's try to get them back on the track for life." it's a little surprising to see him have this sort of stance, a lot of hard-line stances, because it didn't seem to sort of jibe with who i thought i was hearing when he first started running. >> well, people do different things for political reasons, and it would be unfair to sort of go inside his head and explain why he's doing what he's doing. but, going back to the original

topic, which is, is there a difference between minors and the way, biologically, their mind works and their ability to change the pathway and to lead productive lives later? yes. there's a difference, with exceptions where there's egregious, egregious crimes, where we have to create exceptions. if there is an opportunity to bring them back, to rehabilitate, why not do it? because there are biological -- it's hard to prune a tree, but you can still prune something that is still growing. >> yeah, it's a case-by-case basis. i do think there are too many people, though, in jails across the country because of drug addiction, effectively. you know, there's people who are going away, and we're filling our -- instead of helping these people get some kind of treatment to get through the process -- and that's part of it. as it relates to -- you really do have to look at it on a case-by-case basis, 'cause not every 16-year-old who murders somebody should just get 30 years. some of them are -- you'd have to look at each and every one. and i don't think it should be a blanket, "if you're under 18, we're releasing everybody." but you got to look at them. >> the pew center came out with a poll asking people, "what are

you most concerned about?" last year, when we were in the middle of an election and we were talking about education, they said education. this year, surprisingly, to the people that did the study, they said public safety. even though, in general, most crimes are down -- murders are about 4% up -- and there was a divide. we saw people who were lower-income and minorities especially saying, "we're worried about this," while people who were white, living in more middle-class neighborhoods, said that they were not. what does this study really tell us that's important? >> i think one portion shows that bill hite is doing a good job, as it relates to the education. 'cause i think that has been less of a burner issue. so then you start to say, "well, education -- all right, i feel like that's heading in the right direction. what's next? crime, i guess." so, i mean, i do think there's part of that. and certainly, things like this past week, the shooting in rittenhouse square at 9:30 at night, makes you realize that even in the "safest" areas of the city, there's all kinds of danger. >> but to your point, entrenched poverty, lack of opportunity, and crime go hand-in-hand. so especially those of color who live in disproportionately more

entrenched poverty, they feel more the effects of the fear and the danger that comes with crime. education is a bulwark against long-term crime and fear, and it's also a doorway to opportunity and a path away from danger, and i think it has to be a holistic approach -- pre-k, access to opportunity, making feel comfortable with police, where police are seen more as helpful, as opposed to people feeling attacked in a police state. all of those things, holistically, have to change, and i think mayor kenney and others in philadelphia -- it's a national movement. we're trying to do that in a much larger environment where people feel safe in their own neighborhoods. in many of these low-income neighborhoods, you feel just as afraid as though you would live in palestine or in syria. whether it's a bomb falling or whether it's a gunshot, it's the same thing. you still die. >> it was interesting. commissioner ross' response wasn't to say that the numbers don't bear it out. it was to say, "that's how people feel, and that's what we need to address."

>> right, right. >> great response. >> all right, well, we're going to take another short break, and we'll come back to our insiders' inside stories of the week. ♪ pat toomey and donald trump: they're just wrong for the women of pennsylvania. "new fallout for donald trump..." "should a woman be punished for having an abortion?" "there has to be some form of punishment." "for the woman?" "yeah, there has to be some form." "i would support legislation in pennsylvania that would ban abortion, and i would suggest we have penalties for doctors who perform them." pat toomey and donald trump: they're not for you. priorities usa action is responsible for the content of this advertising.

pat toomey and donald trump: they're just wrong for the women of pennsylvania. "new fallout for donald trump." "should a woman be punshied for having an abortion?" "there has to be some form of punishment." "for the woman?" "yeah, there has to be some form." "i would support legislation in pennsylvania that would ban abortion and i would suggest that we have penalties for doctors who perform them." pat toomey and donald trump: they're not for you. senate majority pac is responsible for the content of this advertising.

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. >> welcome back to "inside story." time for our insiders' stories of the week. ajay, we'll start with you. >> tamala, we're talking about disparities in income. in low-income neighborhoods, when you look at certain zip codes, the life expectancy is 60. in zip codes like where i live, it's 80. chop has a great approach to change population health overall by going into the neighborhoods and teaching them how to cook. in many families, other than fast food, they've never actually cut vegetables and cooked, and that's a great way to improve overall health. >> all right, brian. >> another happy story in the city of chester, which at times is a very difficult place to live. there's a school called drexel neumann academy.

10 years ago, it was founded. mostly 90% of the kids non-catholic, most from very difficult situations. congratulations to sister maggie gannon and sister cathy mcgowan for really breaking the ribbon and doing something great for a bunch of kids. >> love it. donna. >> so, the first weekend in november, the weekend right before the election, when i think people are just gonna be emotionally spent, having been through this election season, there's gonna be something really fun, interesting, and cool going on at thomas jefferson university. independence blue cross and jefferson have joined forces, and we're doing the second hackathon, and it is -- it is a knockdown, drag-out fun-filled weekend of people generating ideas that may become new companies or licensing agreements or just things that improve people's lives and health. >> all right, christine, we'll end with you. >> tam, sad story on the main line. let's hope it has a happy resolution. headmaster of the haverford school, where i used to teach, john nagl, amazing

man, was charged with simple assault after disciplining his young son. he was suspended from the school. the d.a. from delaware county stepped up and decided to drop charges. he saw this as the normal concern of a father for a child. let's hope that the haverford school does the same and brings this good back man. >> good man back. all right, thanks to all of you, and thank you to you for joining us. that's "inside story" for this week, and, of course, we'll see you back here next sunday. i'm tamala edwards. thanks again. i'm nydia han along with gray hall. >> coming up next on "action news," pennsylvania is in the political spotlight, last night hillary clinton and tim kaine campaigned here today. his wife is in town. a fast-moving fire leaves a woman in port richmond fighting for her life. eagles face off against old teammate sam bradford. those stories next on "action

news."

even after trump bragged about sexually assaulting women, toomey stood by him. on women's health - both trump and toomey would defund planned parenthood. on abortion: trump: "there has to be some form of punishment" toomey: "i would suggest that we have penalties for doctors who perform them." pat toomey and donald trump: too dangerous for pennsylvania women. >> good afternoon it is sunday october 23. i'm nydia han along with gray hall. here's some of the stories we're following on "action news," both donald trump and hillary clinton continue to press for votes in the keystone state as