>> at least five democrats are running to be d.a. in philly. more expected to jump in, in a process described as chaotic. who gets the edge? let's get the inside story. ♪ good morning. i'm tamala edwards. welcome to "inside story." let's introduce you to the panel. we'll start with donna gentile o'donnell, nonprofit exec. good morning. >> good morning, tam. >> sam katz, documentarian. >> hi, there. >> good morning. pollster terry madonna. >> morning. >> and temple prof jan ting. >> hey, tam. >> first of all, let's start with seth williams, who said he's not going to run. the town rampant with rumors. he's being indicted. he's being arrested. he was found in a restaurant just eating lunch going, "i don't know what's going on here." >> [ laughs ] >> do you think that either of those outcomes become true or he's allowed to quietly stay in office, finish out his term while we also focus on the d.a.'s race? >> well, first of all, i mean,

gossip and rumor is the coin of the political realm, so it's not surprising that these rumors of someone's demise continue to perpetuate. i thought it was so funny that chris brennan actually tracked him down... >> yeah. >> ...and took a selfie and said, "no, he's not locked up. he's actually right here." so, i think in terms of what happens to him next, it all depends on whether or not another shoe drops. so i think if there are any legal proceedings that look like an indictment or anything like that, i think that there'll be much more pressure. >> sam, some people don't want him to resign because then they'd have to appoint a new d.a., and that person then would get a leg up if they wanted to run. but at a certain point, is it something worth thinking about? like, can he be effective at all? >> well, he has a fairly stiff financial burden hanging over his head from the city ethics committee. i believe he has a $62,000 liability to be repaid, so cutting himself off from his source of income may not be the most prudent financial action he could take. i think his risk really is, did

he report the gifts on his income taxes? >> mm. >> if he failed to do that, the irs is usually not very concerned about whether you are or are not holding an office if you engage in tax fraud. and i think that's his -- that particularly strikes me as a difficult problem, especially now that it's not a democratic administration. it's -- the republicans control the internal revenue service, and they may have their axes out. >> let's turn and talk about all the people running. we've got five people who were announced as candidates. we're hearing that william's deputy is saying that he might get into it, as well. tariq el-shabazz, a state rep from out in western philadelphia. joanna mcclinton says she's thinking about it. we could be up to seven. we could be up to eight. more may be coming. some are describing this as the most chaotic scene they've ever seen, running for philadelphia d.a. t's an extraordinary situation to have such a plum position in the city and in the state, frankly, which has been a

stepping stone for people to higher office to have no front-runner in a position like that. and people only have a couple weeks to gather signatures before the filing deadline for the primary. so it's an extraordinary situation. to not have an incumbent -- to have the seat vacated so suddenly and abruptly and have so many candidates scrambling, it's understandable the people want to get into this race and take their shot. anything can happen in a multi-candidate race. there's been a lot of speculation about who's got the money, and obviously having money is a huge advantage in a multi-candidate race. >> speaking about -- speaking about that, george soros, some are saying that he might be tipping into this. a pac that he backs, many people think that he may back larry krasner. would that make a difference for krasner? >> well, it could. i mean, television, as sam katz knows, is hugely important in elections. and you get a half a million or a million bucks and you get on

tv. but i think there's another feature. we've not heard anything about the "city democratic party." >> mm-hmm. >> what are the ward leaders going to do? what are the apparatchiks that basically run the politics of the city, can they get a consensus with seven or eight candidates? >> i'd be careful calling democrats apparatchiks at this particular moment in time. just want to note for the record. >> i'm using that generically. >> well, and also in philadelphia, race matters. the two candidates i just mentioned, el-shabazz and mcclinton, are both african-american. would that tip things in their favor in the city? >> i think -- i think you marched into an important field when you observed that the democratic party doesn't have a candidate. bob brady came out fairly early in the process and said that seth would not have the support of the ward leaders. but where's the bench? >> yeah. >> where's this team of people who've been schooled to become candidates, future leaders of the city?

i say this not with glee, but i think the democratic party is bankrupt on that account. you do have a couple of very attractive young people, a guy like jared solomon who just got elected. but he just got elected, so to march into a d.a.'s race, you know, you have seven people or eight people who might well be -- i mean, rich negrin certainly stands out as a solid guy who would, under normal circumstances, appear to be a logical guy. nobody in the democratic party is rallying, at least that i can tell yet, to any of these people. and both dougherty and brady seem to be awol on the subject. >> let's -- >> i just want to say, i think there's a little bit of political exhaustion. i mean, i think that we're getting exhausted at the national level daily. and i think that's translating into exhaustion locally. >> maybe let them figure it out and we'll show up later. >> look at the fight, though, that val digiorgio just won against lawrence tabis -- 173 to 171. and that was as brutal a fight for the state gop as was the presidential nomination.

congratulations to val digiorgio. >> indeed, congratulations to val, one of our "inside story" panelists. well, one thing that we've heard from most of the democrats in the race is that they support the idea of philadelphia staying a sanctuary city, which is interesting because we had two different visions this week -- one, increased ice raids across the country and then "a day without immigrants." many businesses shutting down. public opinion does seem to play into these things. jan, you pay a lot of attention to this issue. which one do you think holds greater purchase in philadelphia with people -- the ice raids or the "day without an immigrant?" >> well, i think the -- what we see is the illegal immigrant population trying to blur the lines between themselves and legal immigrants. they're always pointing to all the great things that legal immigrants have done, nobel prize winners, right? distinguished professors in every field. sure, that's true. but, um, you know, some of the people who are most critical of illegal immigration are the people that are here legally and who are having to compete for

jobs with the illegal immigrant population. who knows whether the raids are significant or not? ice says, "this is what they've always done." they've always been trying to go after undocumented aliens who have some other problem, usually a criminal conviction or a criminal record. those are the people who are priorities for removal in the prior administration and under the current administration. >> is this the kind of thing that pushes people to think about guest-worker programs versus just crackdowns, or, no, they're gonna keep up with crackdowns? >> of -- of course it does. and the reports were out of washington that this planning was actually done during the obama administration, so this isn't something new. i mean, here's what i think the failure is. what donald trump said during the campaign at various times was that he was going to literally kick out 11 million illegal immigrants. now, he backed off of that. if he clearly distinguished, and he's done that a bit, that we're gonna get rid of the illegal

immigrants who commit violent crimes, who are felons, that has the support of the american people. but in the polls that have been done recently, the american people do not support kicking out 11 million people, which you probably couldn't do, anyway. so i think that's a hugely important distinction to make -- felons, violent crimes, they go. the other immigrants, you put them eventually on a path to citizenship. trump has walked up to that door, but he hasn't opened it up yet. >> but the problem is that that's not where they're drawing the line. i mean, we had that national story about the woman who immigrated here illegally. she bore two children who are american citizens, and they had to watch their mother being carted off in a police vehicle, an ice vehicle, chained up like a common prisoner. now, she had admittedly used a social security number... >> exactly. >> ...that was not proper. but that's, i think -- i think we need to draw lines of demarcation when it comes to pulling families apart, and

that's what most americans are upset about, that's what the mayor is against, that's what people in the city care about. and so, being a sanctuary city, i think, is in some ways in this time, a badge of honor. >> is everybody upset about that, though? somebody might look at her and say, "but if you hadn't come originally the wrong way, you wouldn't be in this position." and you hear some people on the trump side say that, that this was the end result of an original decision. >> but there's an inhumanity to this. there's an inhumanity to this that is unkind and indecent, and that's what people are -- >> pat toomey just got re-elected by campaigning against the sanctuary city policy in the city of philadelphia. i mean, the state legislature is up in arms about the sanctuary city policy in philadelphia. it may be good politics within the city of philadelphia. you know, and people are counting votes all the time. but it's not good politics in the commonwealth of pennsylvania. it's not good politics nationally. >> there are two big problems here. one is the discretion that is

decentralized to the ice officer on the scene, who takes a look at a person's record, sees a social security violation, and can compare that to a violent crime and make a decision. >> thank you. >> you know what? this one needs to be left alone. that's one issue. the other issue is when you decide, whether you're a mayor or a governor or a county executive, to take on donald trump, you better be a pretty damn good street fighter, because it doesn't matter to trump that you're engaged in a policy debate. you're now engaged in a fight with him, and he has to win. and this is what the jim kenneys of the world are faced with. they may have the morally defensible and perhaps correct, even legally correct, position, but they're taking on the president of the united states who has to win every fight and who has some pretty powerful purse strings. >> well, he lost a couple of fights this past week. his secretary of labor went down. i mean, we're seeing fights -- >> but many people would say, in some cases, he's won more than he's lost. he's gotten most of his cabinet

through. only one so far has fallen. we will see. >> every president doesn't get 100% of their cabinet. >> obama didn't four of them. >> let's turn and go back to something that's in city council. jim kenney ran for mayor talking he wants the money to run through the free library foundation and the fairmount park conservancy. they're all over the city. he says they know how to do this. council says, "no, we think it should go through a council office, and you got to get these bonds through us." who's gonna win this fight? >> i think -- well, first of all, let me just say, there's a ton of moving parts in these projects. they're talking about not just rehabbing rec centers, but putting training centers that are unprecedented in terms of giving kids that are in high school access to getting trade approvals, special certificates, that are gonna get them real jobs. so the competition is, in some ways, is much about that.

but there's -- there is, i think, a complex network of relationships that are playing themselves out. i think when the program finally gets unveiled, and to the mayor's credit and the people that are doing the big lift, they're trying to make sure that they tighten everything up before they go public with it. >> but darrell clarke is saying, "this is risky. i want diversity. i look at the fairmount park conservancy. doesn't look diverse to me, so let's stop here." >> let me just say, i mean, i oppose the mayor's policy on sanctuary cities, threatening public safety. but i support the mayor on rebuild. i think the way that he wants to do it is the right way, is in the best interest of the entire city. i think the fairmount park conservancy and the other nonprofit have a track record. they have established staffs and personnel. they know how to do the projects, and, most importantly, they have the ability to raise additional funding from other sources. that's key, i think. >> clark was mad, because he said he didn't feel enough people had gotten in on the action to bid.

but what he's saying is, "maybe these two candidates were just far and away above everybody else." >> well, first of all, there haven't been any bids, or there haven't been that many bids. the money hasn't been raised. the william penn foundation's grant was just announced. you have the ability by outsourcing, if you will, the management of these development projects that are park-specific to the fairmount park commission and to the other foundation of generating a whole lot more private money, because the private sector's going to say, "it's not going to the city." >> yeah. >> we're -- and as far as the track record on minority business engagement by the city of philadelphia, that's paltry. and anybody who can stand up and show how minority business enterprise either for women, for minorities, for veterans, has dramatically affected the economic landscape of philadelphia, i challenge them to do that. yes, there should be minority business, but there needs to be a management and a rollout of this that's hugely professional and effective.

and the fairmount park conservancy with what they did in hunting park and what they've done in other pocket parks around the city is extraordinary. >> shows for itself. let's talk a little bit quickly about tom wolf's budget -- a couple of surprises in there. mckinsey is saying, "you can squeeze more money out of the state stores, if they negotiate better and run better." that's $53 million. do you buy it? >> no. [ laughter ] uh, look. oddly, yeah, you can create an enormous amount of efficiencies in any government, and particularly state government. when you're talking about if you take state and federal sources, you're up to, what, $60 billion, $70 billion. of course you can. but the problem is you deal with the bureaucracy. >> but other states are doing it -- alabama. >> yeah, but in the case of the state stores, they have a liquor system that's, in a sense, independent. the governor can't say, "we're doing 'a', 'b', and 'c'." it's not the way the boards and commissions of state government work. >> that stunning cost, $1.8 million -- there's an inefficiency right there. >> we got to wrap up. but really quickly, a yes or no.

should we be charging small towns in pennsylvania $25 a head... >> no. >> ...for state troopers to be their police force? >> yes. yes. >> there's a long story. can't tell it. yes. >> you say no. you say yes. >> we're paying $400 a citizen in philadelphia to support the philadelphia police department. >> this is a big deal in harrisburg. >> we'll keep talking. we'll take a break, and when we come back, we're talking trump. >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact.

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♪ >> welcome back to "inside story." i'm tamala edwards. terry, my head's spinning here a little bit. donald trump and his press conference talked about a rasmussen poll which finds he's got 55% approval. meanwhile, there's a pew poll that says he's got 56% disapproval, 46% of that strongly. what? >> it's not just -- it's not just the pew poll. if you look at the averages of the other polls, rasmussen is what we call in polling terms an outlier. i love that term. it's an outlier. >> in other words, we don't believe you. >> well, there's some -- there's something going on with it, either in the waiting, and you know, scott rasmussen, people don't remember. he left the report in 2013, so he -- it used to be, literally, if you go back to 2004 and 2008, one of the most accurate polls... >> that's true. >> ...in the country. it went from being one of the most accurate polls to being an

outlier. now, i have to say this, very quickly. we, like many others, were wrong in our state polls. we've done an investigation of it. we have a poll out next week. we're gonna take a look at a lot of the issues. we did a couple of interesting things that i don't have time to talk about to get it straight. >> we'll look forward to seeing that. well, let's talk about this -- pat toomey this week. any number of republicans usually go back home, they do town halls. not this time, because they've seen other colleagues get yelled at with -- you know, the town halls are packed. instead, he went on facebook live and took 10 curated questions. so that suggests that the resist movement has some purchase, but at the same time, many places that support trump, they're saying, "we're fine. we're good with this. go to pennsport. they still love him." again, which story is the truth? >> i think that, first of all, if you've just been elected to the senate -- re-elected to the senate for six years -- you do have a little more flexibility than the guys that are gonna be up in 2018. and toomey, you know, threaded the needle. when did he come out and decide

who he's voting for? >> 15 minutes before on day of. >> let's give the guy a little bit of credit for having the smarts to thread that needle, 'cause everybody else was getting killed between the trump -- or the republican party. this level of angst and anger and emotion that has permeated the entire american body politic is showing up in every letter to the editor, in every town hall meeting. and if you're a public official, whether you're pat toomey or you're congressmen chaffetz and you're going home and you're suddenly seeing this kind of vitriolic reaction, yeah, you probably want to go home and have a drink and spend the evening watching television. and it's 'cause people are not talking about anything. they're screaming. >> i think it's a tactical mistake for the critics of the current administration to focus on pat toomey, because as sam suggests, the guy's not up for six years. he'll be confronting a completely different situation. i mean, from the republican point of view, it's kind of a good thing. let all of the slings and arrows

hit pat who's invulnerable and -- >> but this is one thing i've seen some people, some pundits, come up with. it's easy to avoid them, but be careful, this could be a tea party in the making. you can just keep avoiding them. so at some point, do they have to show up? >> i don't think it helps, if it's a tea party in the making on the left, and look at toomey's record. whether he confronts them directly or not, it's not going to help. >> toomey was also a leading voice this week on a big back-and-forth. michael flynn leaving the nsa over concern -- well, it was focused that he had a conversation about sanctions before the transition took place. some say that wasn't the issue, that he misled the vice president was the issue. the information coming out, big hubbub. pat toomey was one of the voices that said, "it's not about flynn, it's about the leaks." other people are saying, "no, it's about the information in the leaks." which one is true, and is it smart for republicans, like toomey, just to focus on the leaks but not the information? >> i think -- i think it's a mistake for toomey to treat this as just an issue associated with

leaks and not an issue associated with the integrity of the presidency. what i find fascinating is that there wasn't a reaction or a severe reaction among the republicans until it was revealed that pence was out of the loop, and this is, i think, very important. the republican party in congress is relying on pence to essentially be the guardian -- the regent to the childcare. that's what's going on. that's what's going on. >> but it was revealed he was out of the loop for two weeks on this. >> he was out of the loop, and people that are part of the establishment are concerned because they regard pence as the modulating influence, and he's the guy that's gonna kind of keep everything together. >> sam, leaks or what's in the leaks? >> the really big story here is the extent of the ferociousness of the national security community's decision, collectively and individually, to undermine the trump administration on foreign policy. and these republicans who are

attacking -- taking this issue of mike flynn's resignation and his communications with the russians and turning it into a conversation about leaks is to scare the crap, pardon me, out of all the people in the national security infrastructure who are doing the leaking. >> i agree with that. >> that's what they have to do, because if, in fact, this leaking continues, this could bring down the presidency, because if, in fact, trump has done the things that we're speculating he might have done -- have conversations with ex parte conversations with the russians about leaking information about hillary or the dnc, possibly talking about sanctions and overlooking or letting bypass the obama administration's position -- these are very dangerous -- these are watergate type of things. >> we're a month into this new administration. there's no national security adviser on board. there's no director of national intelligence. there's no deputy secretary at the department of state. we're a month in, and so... >> and these are dangerous times. >> ...it's an awkward situation.

>> but i get sam's point on why you do it, but does it hurt them if they don't put down a marker on, "but we've seen this information and we don't like it"? >> if the information that comes out makes a full-fledged bipartisan investigation necessary, the trump administration is in big doo not just on this, but they could lose four or five members of the senate. we can talk about murkowski, collins, lindsey graham... >> and they've already peeled off on some things. >> ...mccain, and possibly marco rubio, and all of a sudden, you have a coalition of democrats and republicans and trump is stuck. >> quickly, we're over time. >> two wrongs don't make a right. we need to know exactly what contact, if any, the trump campaign people had with russia -- number one. number two, the intelligence agency should not be leaking that. that's a crime, and they need to stop it. >> all right, last word on that. we'll take a short break and come back.

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge,

it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. >> welcome back. inside stories. donna. >> in the last mayoral election, there was a "draft darrell clarke" movement. a lot of people may have forgotten about that. the conflict that we're seeing, really, i think, has much more to do with the executive agenda moving forward from mayor kenney's office and a little bit of buyer's remorse on the part of the council president. >> that he didn't run. all right, sam. >> the city's $91 million projected collections on the beverage tax seems to be in tatters, at least after the first month. and it also looks like there's a lot of empty seats in the early childhood program, so that's an initiative that does really need a lot of focus to make sure it's successful. >> all right, terry. >> 50% of the state's 2,500 municipalities get their police service from the state police. 67% -- some or all. we're talking about millions in a cost shift to local municipalities should that pass the legislature. >> all right, jan. >> because of vacancies on our federal courts and because of

the advanced age of the incumbents, president trump has a greater opportunity than any first-term president in recent years to pack the courts with his appointees, ensuring republican control of the courts as well as the congress and the white house and the state legislatures. >> all right. thank you. this has been a great show. thank you for joining us. we'll see you next sunday on "inside story." >> i'm nydia han along with gray hall. >> coming up on "action news," sky6 live hd taking you live outside over the commodore barry bridge we're experiencing spring-like conditions in the middle of february. meteorologist chris sowers will let you know how warm it will get and is this the end of winter. >> plus a fight between two cab drivers ends with one getting shot. >> hundreds pass over the

border into canada, we'll tell you why they are leaving the u.s. >> those stories and more next on "action news."

>> garn it is sunday, february 19. i'm nydia han along with gray hall. >> here's some of the stories we're following on "action news," a man is stabbed twice in center city. we have the latest on the search for the