>> i'm monica malpass. on "inside story," a new, unprecedented legal maneuver is adding to the turmoil in the philadelphia district attorney's office. let's get the inside story. ♪ good morning. i'm monica malpass. welcome to "inside story." and let's meet our insiders this week. they are george burrell, attorney and nonprofit executive. good morning to you, sir. glad to have you. brian tierney, marketing executive. >> good morning. >> welcome back. always good to see you. terry madonna, franklin & marshall pollster. it's so good to have you again, terry. and ajay raju, attorney. good morning, sir. thank you all for your time and your opinions. so, a former district attorney is suing the current district attorney, along with powerhouse attorney dick sprague is joining in the lawsuit because of the federal bribery and corruption charges against seth williams. he did relinquish his law license voluntarily, but he has said he is not gonna resign in the wake of the charges.

and yet, the former district attorney, who was his prior mentor, of course, lynne abraham, along with this other lawsuit, finally says she believes he should be out. why do you think they went to this unprecedented step, she and mr. sprague? why do you think that seth williams is willing to combat them, i guess, and not just resign? and do you think it'll work? >> well, i think most of the preeminent ethics lawyers in town have said there's no legal basis for putting him out of office, so i'm not quite sure why they're doing this. i mean, i'm sure that they must have consulted with them. so there's some publicity, and there may be outrage. i don't know. i mean, seth has brought obviously himself to a position where he is -- i won't use the word "disgrace." people are innocent until proven guilty. there have been many people calling for him to step down. that might be the right thing to do, but it's his decision at the end of the day. and i just -- and i also think that they should have called for him to step down before they took a legal step. >> there's a parallel, monica, with a former attorney general

of the state of pennsylvania, kathleen kane. she lost her law license. she was charged with multiple felony and misdemeanor counts. she assigned the day to day operations of the attorney general's office in this state to a deputy. she said, "i don't have a law license, but i can administer and do what we call the ministerial functions of the office." >> and a judge upheld that. >> and she was, you know, did that job until she was convicted. now, what's fascinating in this state is that you technically don't have to be -- you don't get removed from your office if you're convicted. you get removed when you're sentenced. and that could take months after a conviction. >> and i believe their point, according to the body of the lawsuit, is that he would be drawing his $175,000 salary, and they believe paying legal bills with that, which they didn't necessarily think was the right way to do it. >> if i'm seth williams, on the one hand, this is kind of a tragedy, his backstory of being adopted at a 2-year-old and the kind of, you know, his

overcoming a lot of different challenges and being an assistant d.a. so that part of it -- and it is allegedly, right, until proven guilty. but he probably feels on the one hand, "i like the $175,000." he has the kathleen kane example, as well. i think if you resign, you do kind of create a certain "he must be guilty" kind of a part. and there's an interesting backstory. you know, i think lynne abraham feels a certain sense that she helped create and mentor seth williams. seth came out and criticized her at one point when she was the d.a., when he was talking about he was gonna run, et cetera, so there might be some bad blood. >> and then ran against her. >> and then ran against her. and then the relationship between dick sprague and lynne abraham is legendary, long-standing, a lot of mutual trust, et cetera, and i think dick is of a point in his career he's got to be in his early 90s or late 80s, still sharp as a tack. and i think there's a certain sense of, "yeah, we're gonna do what we think is the right thing." i think seth's probably feeling he's doing what he has to do, too. >> and is there some common ground they can find to just make this go away? it's gonna be an expensive

situation, obviously more expense for mr. williams if he's fighting a separate lawsuit, but also an embarrassment for the city, and work is not gonna get done in the d.a.'s office if it's happening. >> well, i think the embarrassment factor's already baked in. this is already a distraction. there are sort of immeasurable costs to a city, the lack of trust that you have with governance and politics in general, with leadership that there's already been. the sand has already been shifted. the question now is, can and will seth do what may be the right thing to do, which is to step down so that it doesn't continue to be a distraction? but i agree with the panel here that ultimately he has the right to stay in office until removed, and that is a process. he's entitled to his day in court. the question is, can we restore integrity, and can we restore confidence for regular folks in positions of power, especially d.a.'s office, mayor's office,

and other positions of powers in the city? >> yeah, i mean, typically when state lawmakers get into that position -- there's 253 of them in our state, 435 in congress -- okay, one more. but now we're talking about an official who's responsible for law enforcement, for prosecuting the bad guys. there is another option, but williams has, what, eight, nine months left in office anyway, and that's to go through the process in the state capital of impeaching him and removing from office using that process, which, by the way, the legislature is now undertaking for a public official in lancaster county. >> it's expensive and arduous. >> i'm not suggesting they should. there's not enough time to do it, anyway. >> the other interesting thing is to see what the impact is on the public. there's district attorneys' primary election in a couple of months. it will be interesting to see whether it impacts turnout in that election. >> it's one of the few times that nobody's asking the incumbent for their endorsement. >> [ laughs ] >> right, right. he decided not to run again.

but here's a good point. former governor ed rendell did endorse joe khan this past week, who is one of the seven candidates who is running for the next d.a.'s office. were you surprised by that selection? some folks would say the money is behind other candidates among the seven, but maybe the political endorsements are going to joe khan. >> i think that endorsements in this election are only relevant to the extent that you have enough money to take advantage of it. this is an organizational election. so what's gonna be on the ballots that you put out on election day, what's gonna lead into that, i don't think there's gonna be enough television. i mean, there's some television going on now, but it's not at the level that's enough -- brian knows this better than me -- to really impact outcome. it comes down to organizational. >> the point of money in this case, untermeyer has the largest cash-on-hand reserve. and right next to it is joe khan, so he has both, at this point, money and a major endorsement, but so does rich negrin. rich negrin has the fop and other endorsements. so i think right now it's becoming those three essentially, because money will matter in this case because of

the ward leadership. >> and negrin was a very successful executive at aramark. i don't know any personal knowledge of it, but, you know, a lot of those guys who did so well because they were able to take the company public, et cetera, so i'm sure he has the resources. >> yeah, but you all know this is a question of what happens on the ground. >> oh, yeah. >> you're talking about half a dozen candidates, and what happens on the ground really matters. >> getting out votes. >> the average voter is not going to know virtually anything about these -- >> the turnout probably be less than 20%, right? >> the lowest turnout. >> less than 15%. >> lowest turnout election in the cycle because there's no philly -- >> this could be an opportunity for someone else. >> i also, though, think that the field operations in the political community begin to look at these candidates in terms of who has a future. >> right. >> it's not just who's gonna be, because most people don't have the political investment in the district attorney. >> right. it's who then will become mayor, et cetera. >> right. >> okay, all right, let's talk about the u.s. senate, which this past week pulled out its nuclear option, and in the showdown over the next supreme court justice really

played hardball, as president trump promised that he and they would. was anybody surprised by them using that option? and number two, anybody surprised the democrats didn't do it years ago when they had their candidate? >> here's the thing. i mean, number one, it must be frustrating if you're a democrat, 'cause this nominee, gorsuch, did such a great job. he is a man -- he's conservative, but his hearings -- his record's impeccable. his hearings were terrific. and it must be frustrating that they couldn't lay level him. now they talk about this nuclear option, but the democrats did this in 2013 -- >> with everything except the supreme court. >> right, so they kind of -- you'd have to say, if it's nuclear, they did hiroshima, and this is nagasaki, okay? this is the second nuclear bomb. >> turnabout's fair play. >> exactly. but they started it back in then. >> politics is a contact sport. and so none of this is about integrity. none of this is about -- the conservatives want a conservative justice. they think gorsuch fits that. they say, well, all these democrats voted for him when he was appointed to the appeals court, but so did all the republicans vote for garland

when he was appointed the district court. it's about politics, and it's about political preference. democrats are really against him 'cause he doesn't represent that either moderate or liberal justice. republicans are for him 'cause they think he does represent the conservative justice. and i'm okay with that. i'm okay with the nuclear option. if people stop trying to play this "when it works for me, it's integrity." >> where does it end, then? 'cause we have three or four more supreme court justices that could be in the offing in the next term. >> the democrats probably would have been better off to hold until a liberal justice retires and then insist on the filibuster to stop an appointment of a conservative by trump if he gets another appointment in his four years. >> so it was simply retribution, you think? >> but there's another point about this, and here's what it is. democrats are reflecting their constituency. over half the democrats in this country are now self-described liberals. 60%-plus of them did not want this guy confirmed. and so the democrats are basically -- i'm not arguing it's right or wrong.

i'm saying what they're doing is basically representing the views of their constituents. >> and they want to get reelected, so... >> that's right. and there are 10 of them that are running this year in states that were won by trump, five of them in places where he won by more than 10 percentage points. >> can we provide some context, though? between 1949 to 2007, in the 60 years, there have been only 68 filibusters of judicial nominees. between 2009 to 2013, during obama's presidency, the republicans filibustered in judicial nominees 79 times in those four years. 68 in 50 years, four years -- 79. so there's fake outrage, and the hypocrisy on both sides, by the way, democrats as well as republicans. as george said, it's a contact sport, but that is what the public is really -- >> well, there -- >> and then this idea of the nuclear option, the filibuster, the whole issue with filibuster is to create this bipartisanship, to get to a legislation so that other side also has something.

>> but that isn't happening. >> what you have done is done a long-term damage to that whole bipartisanship that existed beforehand. >> and pennsylvania senator bob casey, by the way, still has said he cannot get behind gorsuch, and he and congressman mike kelly have a war of words going. they may be future rivals, by the way. but anyway, they are kind of having a showdown of their own. >> and if i'm kelly, it's a great way to get my name statewide and all the rest of it. and you do feel about the lack of civility, if you will, in the senate, except you think back to the 1840s they were hitting each other in the head with sticks. >> actual sticks. >> yes. >> and conversely, pat toomey is prepared -- he's sticking with gorsuch. he's gonna vote for him. and remember, he was reelected last year. he has a long time before he has to worry about getting -- >> and three democrats are coming out for gorsuch. or is it four? >> four. four. >> right, four. 'cause they want to make sure they get reelected next year as democrats. >> all right, time to talk budgets. pennsylvania has one. the city of philadelphia has one. we're gonna slice and dice both of them and talk about it. the gop is countering tom wolf, our governor's budget, and saying that they have their own version. $31.5 billion plan. it insists on no tax increases. a lot of folks like that.

no new borrowing. endorsing a lot of the common ideals of education spending, et cetera, and setting a floor on the general fund spending. were you happy with what you saw? do you think it can get by? >> well, the bigger picture i think right now just for a second is it's great to see governor wolf -- the first part of his being in office was horrible. he had no conversations at all, and there was a lot of anger, et cetera. so at least what he's saying and even what the republicans are saying, there's a gap, but there's a certain -- and some people say -- >> they're talking to each other. >> some people say it was because his first chief of state katie mcginty. i think it's more that the governor is getting his sea legs and realizes, "i have to do." there are certain things. like the governor says, it's a shame that they're cutting $75 million out of pre-k. well, the republicans are saying, "how about $25 million?" so they're not cutting $75 million. they're just saying, "we'll only add $25 million more." so there's a lot back and forth like this. but i think -- and there's a lot of opportunities for some new. but you can't just keep spending more money. you can't just keep raising everybody's taxes 'cause people are -- >> look, there's $800 million difference between the wolf

budget and the republican budget. >> it's incredible. >> which was passed in about 30 seconds with not a single democratic vote in the house. four republicans voted against it. the fact of the matter is that the republicans don't have new taxes, but here's what -- the democrats, here's what -- rather, the republicans want to do. they want to increase gaming in the state, and they want to increase alcohol, expansion to privatize. wolf continues to argue for a shale tax -- 6.5% this year. and he wants to remove a bunch of exemptions that are already there in the sales tax. the fact of the matter is, they are closer now in this proposal than they were in the governor's first two budgets. this should be able to be done by june 30. no one wants to be in harrisburg on july 1. >> right. >> but if you take a step back to brian's point about the governor not having his sea legs, remember the governor had a deal with the senate

republicans. it was the senate house. so the governor, in the period of time that you say he was ineffective, really had cut a political deal with the senate republicans on a budget that they couldn't get, that the senate republicans couldn't get the house to deal with. and what we're doing now, ultimately i agree that this is gonna get done 'cause they're close enough that they're gonna get it done. but at the end of the day, they continue to kick the structural deficit down the road and trying to -- they're these one-time fixes that don't produce the predictable recurring revenue that's necessary to do it. and people forget when ed rendell was governor, there was a $2.5 billion surplus, rainy day fund, and everybody said that wasn't enough. today it's $220 million or some modest amount of money, and it's shrinking, and there's not enough of that now to fill those continuing budget gaps year over year, so they got to do the gaming thing, they got to do all the other stuff. >> all right, we're gonna take a break, and we'll talk city budget and much more when we come right back.

stick around. >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact.

♪ >> welcome back to "inside story." let's quickly talk about the philadelphia city budget -- $4 billion. there's gonna be 15 hearings in seven weeks, and it seems like both sides are fairly in communication in doing things in

the same order. do you think it'll get through? and the only rub is if federal and state funding is cut, as has been threatened over the -- anyway, a couple of issues, including immigration, will the city be left in dire straits? what do you think will happen? ajay. >> well, i mean, you know, you can't tell the size of the ship until you see the wake that is left behind. it's $4 billion budget. but the people that are caught up in that wave are really the poorest and those underserved. so the city budget will pass, but the consequences, one, because we're playing political football with the federal as well as state, is really for the most needy. the bottom 40% in philadelphia will feel the most heat. >> so to be determined. on a national scale, obviously president trump sent a loud, clear message to syria with an attack after what happened with their assault allegedly that they did on their own people. what will syria do in response? what will russia do? and will this start a ground war that we are gonna be mired in for a long time? >> what they'll do, i think what syria and russia will do is take

away that they can't screw around with the u.s., because when we said under president obama this was a red line, et cetera, that was a fiasco. and then they had chemical weapons, and then we allowed them to certify that they didn't have them. now they obviously had them. so it was really important for us to send a message. peace through strength. guys like -- thugs like assad, kgb thugs like putin, they only respect it if you show them you're tough. so it was tactical and it was very smart. >> yeah, he's right. there was very limited -- six airfields. they took out one of them. that's all. most members of congress are in favor of it. they say if you're gonna expand it, you have to go to congress and get congress' approval to do it, and that's the right thing to do. >> but let's be clear, because what president trump has done has tried to blame the obama administration for the red line that they wouldn't cross. when president obama wanted to cross the red line, he went to the congress, and the congress wouldn't support it. it wasn't that he was unwilling to bomb. it wasn't that he was -- he wanted to bomb, and he went

to the congress for the authorization to do it, and the republican-controlled congress would not support him. and the ultimate question here -- look, we're in a tough world. syria's not gonna stop killing their people because they bombed a place that doesn't disarm, that doesn't disrupt their military capacity. and the question is, what's next? if it's just, you know, a bomb that goes off in the middle of the desert that nobody sees or hears other than once, nothing's gonna happen. the question is, what's next? what comes out of the china discussions this week? what comes out of the rex tillerson discussions in russia next week? and then how do the syrians and the russians respond? >> and china did not support the strike in syria, by the way. >> but i don't think -- i think almost everybody agrees it was the right thing to do. >> right. >> but the question is, what happens after that? >> the next thing should be war crimes against assad is what the next thing should be. >> but will putin get behind it? >> you know what? we don't need to have putin get behind it. >> you do have to have your allies get behind it. >> yeah, but you have to have your allies, but not putin. he's weak. >> look, whatever happens in the future needs, one, congressional approval -- he's exactly right -- and number two, it

needs an allied performance. it needs our allies, particularly in western europe, to get behind us and to support a common front in dealing with assad. >> all right, let's go back to our area now. black lives matter movement has a bit of a tempest in a teapot, somebody would say, but maybe a bigger controversy than that in their april advertisement for their meeting, a newsletter said it was a black-only meeting, that whites would be excluded, and some people, especially conservatives, are pointing to that, saying that that's unfair, and, in fact, is doing the opposite of the intended goal of inclusion and trying to understand each other better. is there a place where certain races, every race should have its own private space for security reasons or any other reason, ajay? >> look, we may all have different styles in how we communicate with humanity, but to the extent that they want to have a blacks-only meeting, i don't think it's my place to give them advice, unsolicited

advice, on how they ought to have those meetings. it's their right, and if they want to do it, i support the ultimate movement. i just don't think it's understood as clearly by society on what black lives movement is coming to. >> is it reverse racism in a sense? because the meeting place they were going to use, actually, mastery charter school, did not allow them -- is not gonna let them meet there. >> mastery has a problem from what they're writing. i'm a member of an african-american fraternity, kappa alpha psi. when i go to my fraternity meetings, there are only african-american members there. if you have a board of directors that only has white members on it, when they have their meetings, there are only white members there. i think that there's nothing wrong with black lives matter having membership meetings where there are only african-americans. i do fundamentally believe that if we're gonna solve the problems in this country, we have to build better relationships across ethnic lines with everyone. if we don't do that, then we're not gonna get through it. >> in one level, it's just p.r. tone deaf to say all of us should care about black lives matter and then we're gonna have a meeting.

it's different than your fraternity because your fraternity is a club. you've joined it in college, et cetera, or a board, they're sharing confidential information. this is an effort that's trying to get the entire community involved, and i think just from a practical, pragmatic, public relations standpoint, it was a silly mistake. >> i don't think they have to cater -- >> they have a right to it. >> they have the right to do it. >> they have members. their membership organizations -- >> i think if we really care, we ought to get off our own ego and just have empathy. let them have their meetings the way they want to have them. >> but you create empathy by being open. >> but they don't have to cater their style to our tastes. that's what we're essentially saying. >> but if you want their empathy, then you have to empathic, too, and that's all i'm saying. >> we can have a very long conversation, but in the african-american community, what you generally have is that we've been having this discussion since brown vs. board of education. we're having the same conversation about racial inclusion today that they were having 50 years ago, 100 years ago, and 150 years in the community, and this young constituency who thought we were in post-racial america all of a

sudden finding it difficult. >> that's because the congress -- >> and the reason it gets complicated, as are others who are non-african, it's hard for everybody to compete in this society. >> we'll leave it at that. >> these are young voices, too. >> all right, we're gonna have inside stories of the week coming your way in just a moment. stick around. ♪ vanessa: i got hurt and was given painkillers. by the time the drugs ran out, i was addicted. it happened so fast. i ended up on the streets, where the drugs are cheaper and easier to get. i was a full blown heroin addict, selling my soul to get high. when i realized i needed help i didn't know where to go. but i got help and you can too. you're not alone. help is within reach. this is governor chris christie. call 844 reach nj or visit reachnj.gov. there's work to be done.

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>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. >> welcome back. let's start with our inside stories. and, george, you get to start. >> yeah, i don't want to just congratulate dawn staley in winning a national championship. i have such great respect for the fact that four days after that championship, she comes back not just to philadelphia, but to her high school, dobbins high school in north philadelphia to be recognized. >> awesome. thank you. ajay. >> i want to salute bill coleman, a former partner at dilworth, paxson, the civil

rights pioneer, brown vs. board of education, girard college kid, graduates top of his class from harvard, african-american, eventually becomes secretary of transportation. made us all proud. not just our firm, but this nation. >> absolutely. terry. >> imagine this. thanks to pew research, we know that 18 million americans are now living together with a partner unmarried. 18 million. 25% of them are over 50. >> ah. >> that's a 75% increase since 2007. we're following the millennials in that stage. >> all right. brian. >> my inside story, when you go into a new place, how you're greeted really sets the tone for what it is. i got off of a plane a few days ago at the philadelphia airport from dublin, and there were four folks standing there talking to each other who work there. there was an older couple stumbling with their bags, falling. i finally gave somebody $10. i said, "can you help these people out?" even then, this is our front door. folks at the airport, it's a critical job. greet people with friendliness and warmth. >> because you're saying that

reflects philadelphia. >> they go back to dublin, and they go back to wherever, and say, "gee, the people were really cold and not too friendly." and they were just -- that's got to be a pretty good job. if it's not, find a different job. >> all right. that's "inside story" for this week. thank you so much for watching. thanks to our insiders for being here. hope you have a great week ahead, and we'll see you right back here next sunday morning. ♪ >> i'm gray hall along with jeanette reyes. >> coming up next on "action news," we're following a story out of egypt where two church explosions killed dozens of people. days after the missile strikes, more bombings in syria. we're days away from the nfl draft of -- how it could impact

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book your african adventure now! >> thank so much for joining us, sunday, april 9. i'm gray hall alongside jeanette reyes, nydia han has the day off. >> here's some of the stories we're following on "action news." dozens of people are killed in egypt after explosions at two churches. ahead we'll tell you who is claiming responsil