>> philadelphia could be headed for a leftward shift in law enforcement. "inside story" starts right now. ♪ good morning, everyone. i'm matt o'donnell. it is sunday, may 21, 2017, and it's time for "inside story." let's meet our panelists. george burrell, attorney and nonprofit executive. good morning, george. dom giordano, radio talk show host. >> morning, matt. >> morning, dom. donna gentile o'donnell, nonprofit executive. >> good morning, matt. >> and brian tierney, marketing executive. >> good morning. >> good morning, brian. let's get right in on this. larry krasner, a long-time civil rights attorney, won the democratic nomination for philadelphia district attorney. he earned nearly 40% of the vote, which is impressive given it was a seven-person race. now, if elected in november, krasner would represent a huge shift in philadelphia law enforcement. all of you remember this. just seven years ago, the office

was headed by lynne abraham, who was labeled "america's deadliest d.a." -- her tendency to go for capital punishment in murder cases. now you have krasner, who has filed numerous civil lawsuits against philadelphia police. he's represented protesters with black lives matter and occupy philadelphia. he's never held the office of a prosecutor or been a prosecutor in his career. so, brian, do prosecutors in the d.a.'s office right now, and do police officers in the philadelphia police department have reason to worry about krasner becoming d.a.? >> well, as one person in the d.a.'s office said, they said, "i'm not sure whether to laugh or to cry" when he heard the news, but you should get to know who really won the d.a.'s race. the man who won the d.a.'s race isn't krasner, it's george soros, a mysterious billionaire who put up $1.5 million. he wasn't born in philadelphia. he has a great backstory in some ways -- holocaust survivor, et cetera. he's also the man that paul krugman, the liberal columnist from the new york times, said "broke the back of england for his own personal gain," made a billion dollars in 1992 by trading and almost destroying

the bank of england. so that's who won the race -- no connection to philadelphia, funded the race, got an unknown guy named krasner elected, who is super liberal, who has sued the city and the police department 75 times, but if you want to know who won the race, george soros won the race, so do some homework. >> donna? george? >> i don't really think that's the case. i mean, the koch brothers spend money all over the country, electing people they don't know who support their philosophy. soros is supporting a guy who supports his philosophy. untermeyer spent over a million dollars. so it's not like the dollars spent were unbalanced. i think that krasner's clearly a progressive candidate. he really comes to it with a new mind-set. i think that's not bad for law enforcement, certainly from the community that i'm a part of. they are looking for reform in the criminal justice system, but i hope that krasner understands that he's also a leader, 'cause at the end of the day, if you don't address the issues of poverty, if you don't address the issues of education, if you don't change the quality of life in town, the criminal justice system -- >> that's not really the job

of the d.a. >> it is. we elect people to be leaders. in my judgment, we elect people to be leaders, and that's the problem. we say the district attorney is not supposed to be anything other than a criminal justice -- he is. he is the second or third highest-ranking elected official in the city of philadelphia. he's a leader in town, and he needs to express his voice as a leader. >> there are a lot of democrats who are torn by this right now. >> well, let me just say just from my point of view, i think that we need to be optimistic that krasner will be a good district attorney because that office has been rife with derision and difficulty, and the people that are doing the day-to-day lift, it's been very hard for them. so i'm hopeful that he is gonna be a good d.a. he's never managed a big office. that's gonna be a challenge for him. i'm fine with his anti-death penalty position. i think we spend way too much money on trying to manage all of the appeals, and i'm happy with -- if somebody commits a heinous crime -- no parole, life sentence, but i think the thing that

troubles me the most about krasner has to do with some of the things that brian said about the soros money, but i also think that krasner, his win represents something very, very important. there is so much fear in this country and in this city about the authoritarianism that is coming out of washington, and i think that what people are looking for in krasner is somebody who is gonna be a significant force against that. that's not a small matter. >> let me ask you this, dom. beth grossman, who is the republican nominee, she was unopposed. she has said she might reach out to the fraternal order of police, which is very much against krasner's candidacy, and we always say this is such a big democratic city, but we had arlen specter serve as d.a., ran as republican -- also ron castille was a republican district attorney in philadelphia. so, does beth grossman have any sort of chance of winning this election in november? >> well, "a," i'm told there might be an independent candidate. they're already looking to

fund-raise. john mcnesby is not talking about this guy in any political sense, and i'm not, either. this guy is way off the map on anything possible. so i don't care about what managerial experience he had or not. he's a radical, and the mob that was with him the night on election night was chanting "'f' the police." when that was stopped and quieted down, they were chanting, "no good cops in a racist system." krasner then lectured everybody on freedom of speech and donald trump. he should have apologized, and he should have told those people that's not what he represents. i fear that he does. he was perfectly fine with that under the guise of freedom of speech. how would you feel being a cop in philadelphia today? >> but he was actually quoted in the newspaper as saying, "i don't necessarily believe what those people said." >> george, though -- george, isn't that pretty tepid? do you remember any public figure engaged in this? >> he should have said -- he did say it. he said, "i defend their right of free speech, but i don't agree with what they said." i don't think that grossman is ron castille. i do think that there are people

out there who would traditionally support a democratic candidate would be available to support her, but i think that if krasner's smart, if he moves quickly to consolidate the people -- like ryan boyer and the laborers who didn't support him. there are african-american elected officials and ward leaders who didn't support him. if he moves quickly to consolidate that base, it is a base that is looking for a progressive message. whether you like the guy or not, he has a progressive message that resonates with voters who think that the criminal justice system has worked against them. >> there are plenty of progressives in there, and i differ with them -- like joe khan and others. they were not taking money from george soros, who's doing this to subvert the law. in other words, the death penalty is the law. krasner's saying he's never gonna use the death penalty under any circumstance. that's problematic right there. >> well, i mean, everybody goes to the soros thing. i mean, the koch brothers are all over the place with money. they're supporting people who i think are anathema to the community that i represent, but i defend their right to spend their money

where they want to spend. soros spends his money all over the country. >> george, you're telling me that if the koch brothers had given a million and a half -- untermeyer spent his own money. you're telling me the koch brothers dropped a million and a half into this race, and somebody won it, you wouldn't be upset about it? >> the koch brothers drop a million and a half dollars in congressional races all over the country. >> but you're talking about here in philadelphia now. >> if they come into philadelphia and decide there's a candidate that they want to support, i might not like it, but they have a right to do it. >> there's not a question about rights or laws, but it is important that people understand where the money came from. >> i'm not troubled by the fact that he spent that money, and i believe krasner would have won without that money. >> i don't think he would have. >> i absolutely believe he would. >> i think he would have. i agree with george. >> he had the biggest political base in this election. >> that doesn't speak well for philadelphia -- "he would have won." >> he wouldn't have been able to fund the ground game without that cash. >> the ground game was for him. the ground game was for him. the biggest wards in town were for him. >> i come back to what is it like to be a cop in philadelphia? what would you say to a cop? i had people calling me, saying, "what are we gonna do as a cop?" he is anti-cop.

it's as simple -- >> we don't know how he's gonna behave once he gets elected. >> wait a minute. george, he ran on this. was he lying? >> he ran on a progressive record. he didn't run on anti-cop. >> he ran on anti-cop. >> this is like if roger ailes hadn't died, taking over msnbc. that would have been like the same thing. >> he ran, basically, on the same message that khan ran on. >> i don't think so at all. i interviewed them. >> all those people ran on the same message. >> i don't think so. >> let's move on. it's a big story. we could talk the whole time about it. we'll follow the election in november. a lot of things can happen. you mentioned potential independent candidacy. we'll see. now, a long-time philadelphia democratic official found himself "primaried." rebecca rhynhart defeated three-term incumbent city controller alan butkovitz in tuesday's primary. she won a convincing 58% of the vote over butkovitz's 40%. butkovitz, who, as you remember, considered running for mayor in 2015 and held the endorsement of the democratic party, found himself broadsided. rhynhart is a new face in the party. she served in the kenney and nutter administrations, and perhaps may be a sign of a portion -- or a portion,

george, of the philadelphia electorate is tiring of some of these long-time democratic politicians? is that your interpretation? >> i don't think there's any question that people are looking for change. i think -- you know, and it's not just rebecca rhynhart. if you look at the philadelphia city council, if you look at the philadelphia delegation in harrisburg, the next generation of elected officials are almost all in place in those places. change is taking place quickly, and rebecca rhynhart is an example of that. i think she benefited from the increased turnout that probably was driven by krasner in this election. turnout was only 18%, but the last election was 13%. so there's a 5% increase. and i do think that people are looking for change. people are frustrated and are tired of supporting people based on intent and effort. they're looking for outcomes. they don't think they've gotten outcomes from the existing elected forces, and they're looking for change. >> let me get donna in here. >> so, a couple things. there certainly was a wave of change. it's important to remember that this is the first election that's been held in philadelphia

since donald trump's election, and there is so much pent-up energy among women who are angry that donald trump is president, among people who are angry and upset that the status quo has now become something that they need to fear, and i just want to say a word about alan butkovitz. i mean, alan has served admirably as a public servant in the legislature, in the controller's office for three terms. he has never even been accused of any impropriety with anything of serious measure, other than the very unkind things that michael nutter said about him. he engaged in a series of ad-hominem attacks on alan butkovitz that i found stunning. now, that said, rebecca rhynhart was the beneficiary of michael nutter's anger with the butkovitz episode. >> going back to the... >> yes. yes, exactly. so, but all of these things conspired, i think, to produce an outcome in which a young woman who is talented, by everyone's account, is going to

be the next city controller. so i think that the wave of women who wanted to see something different -- and even the inquirer endorsement was interesting because they described alan butkovitz as having served adequately. i think he did a better job than that, but to the points that have been made here previously -- yes, it's changing, it's getting different. there's a new -- >> you're connecting the dots with krasner/rhynhart as a direct response to president trump. >> absolutely. >> i think it's a couple other things, too. i would add that rhynhart, being a new face, a woman supported by nutter, had been in the kenney administration. i've yet -- i mean, alan butkovitz, he served admirably, but i've yet to find a butkovitz like, "i love alan butkovitz." you know, he just didn't generate that kind of passion, and in this kind of a race with a high turnout and this and that and a woman and a person -- you could see alan was vulnerable and is vulnerable. >> my only question is,

what is she going to do that's so much different than what he did that's gonna be a pushback against donald trump? and/or if you're tired of all the type of stuff that goes on in philadelphia, maybe a diversity of ideas? i don't see too much different -- >> i'd like the controller to be the controller, to be honest with you -- not so much worry about donald trump. i would like them to make sure the money's being spent right and that those sorts of things are being done right. >> what she has said is that she's gonna audit every department every year. >> which is what butkovitz did, anyway, with the resources available. >> but the question is, everybody wants to know how objectively all that's been done. for better or for worse, and i have a huge amount of respect for alan butkovitz, but he was historically seen as a part of the party process, and so people questioned at times his objectivity on some of that, but i think he is -- >> i want to say one thing about the machine that everybody is so angry about, because you keep hearing, "anti-machine, anti-machine." here's what happens on election day. all of those polling places that everyone takes for granted are run by "the machine" -- the committee people,

the judges of elections who work for the week before the election until after the election. they work from 5 o'clock in the morning getting the polls set up until 10 o'clock that night. so people need to understand when they are against "the machine," they need to have a little bit of respect for the people who actually do the work, and if the machine were to go away tomorrow, i don't know who would man the polls. >> nobody has more respect for the machine than i do, and i think people, when they talk about the machine in this context, it's governing. it's not the people running the election on election day. >> mike tomlinson is facing an uphill battle. he is a republican city controller candidate, and he faces rhynhart in november. in allentown, the status quo will continue to be uncertainty at city hall. mayor ed pawlowski fought off six challengers in the democratic primary to win the nomination and run for a fourth term. he will face republican nat hyman in november. you've heard about all these things going on there. pawlowski's office has been under an fbi investigation for two years in a pay-to-play scheme.

it's produced six guilty pleas, and some wonder even if pawlowski is elected in november, or re-elected, he won't be be able to even serve his full term because of an indictment, and he's even been questioned on this himself. so, dom, did ed pawlowski just write the book on how to win a primary under insurmountable odds? >> i don't know that they're insurmountable. it's the machine again, and politics seem to be there. he's a known quantity. it was a very low turnout, and he had all those challengers. i'm really not surprised by this. i don't know that allentown is a bastion of let's change the system, let's push forward. i think they're content, and he had enough supporters, i assume, who think he's gonna weather this, and they want to bet on that guy versus some unknown. >> yeah -- $92,000 election, too, so it's not a lot of money, but you do feel good that there's a farm system for philadelphia just like the reading phillies are. we've got it in allentown, too -- the same level of corruption and acceptance and tolerance of that. it's great. it's like a minor league.

>> the fact is, he just snuck through. i mean, it's not like he won in over-- he got, what, 29? there was another guy with 26, another person with 22. one of the people in the 20's said they weren't gonna support him in the fall, so i think it's a toss-up in the fall. >> more political discussions coming up next. >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact.

♪ >> back with "inside story." the democratic national convention in philadelphia was very successful and very profitable, and that actually has turned out to be a problem. the dnc committee earned a $4-million surplus from the event last summer. the inquirer reports a quarter of it was spent on bonuses for staff and volunteers, and that has angered not only state senate republicans, who want an audit, but also governor wolf, who suggests the money should have been returned to taxpayers, and the p.a. auditor general himself wants to do an audit, or at least look into it. should the money have been returned to taxpayers, donna? >> i've heard a number of different stories about where the money came from, what the decision process was, and i think it's important to hold judgment before all the facts are out. so, one of the narratives that is coming out of this is that the people who led the effort to put this in play, to actually make this happen, work for over

a year with no pay. i mean, so they were betting on the idea that they might be able to pull this off. the nutter administration had completely dropped the ball. no one in the nutter administration was working on this, so there were external phenomena that drove the convention into philadelphia, and those people should be compensated, but i think that one of the things that has happened is that when governor rendell set up that nonprofit, i think there was a lot of uncertainty about the parameters under which people would be compensated, and as a consequence, when you go back and do the look-back, because you haven't laid that out properly, it ends up looking like something that is untoward. >> we're getting a differing view from brian. >> a couple different things. a terrific event, made the city look great as the pope was visiting, and the republican national convention -- all those things, so great -- great economic impact. i understand if i was a republican in harrisburg, i'd be like, "i want to know about this," and i could understand if i was

governor wolf, who's probably sick of hearing people say how great governor rendell is, "i'd like to get into it." but here's the facts. there was a separate bank account set up for the state money. it went into that. it was specifically targeted for wells fargo center, construction -- all those sorts of things. that money was spent for that. there was another $75-million writ given by individuals, corporations. i'm hearing nobody in that group who's upset about it. so the state money was in a separate bank account. it was for specific things. it was spent for specific things -- this part doesn't seem to get out too much -- and it was actually the state gave them a clean audit a few months ago saying, "congratulations. you guys did it really well. here's the $10 million." so i think it's politics. i understand the politics of it if i was the governor. i understand the politics if i was the republicans up in harrisburg. you know, i'd be doing the same sort of thing. but that's the facts behind this. >> the ordinary joe that i hear from is disappointed by it. i mean, at the end of the day, folks get into the political process, and they take risk

that if you win, you're gonna get a benefit out of winning that, and there is no clear determination of how these numbers were decided, and just the ordinary joe is disappointed. >> i would agree. the money should go back to taxpayers. the other thing, i think, to donna's point, when people are involved in this, i think they're gaining something, if not direct compensation. in other words, there's all sorts of networking and other things that go on, and if we traced each one of them, they wanted to do that, i think there's gain for their brand if nothing else. >> let's talk about the amtrak case. d.a. seth williams, as you know, declined to file charges against the amtrak engineer involved in the deadly crash in port richmond two years ago. then a philadelphia judge said, "no, you're filing charges," and it ended up in the hands of attorney general josh shapiro, whose office filed involuntary manslaughter charges. brandon bostian was actually arrested and charged and released on unsecured bond this week. so, brian, why not the d.a. filing charges in this case and why has it fallen in the hands of the state attorney general? why didn't seth williams just

file charges? >> well, they didn't, and then the court said -- and they bumped it back, saying that we've already decided, so we're going to the attorney general. the attorney general josh -- which people have tremendous respect for, republicans and democrats -- had, i think, just 24 hours to make the decision. look, on the one hand, this young fellow is clean on drugs and this and that, and he had an exemplary record. on the other hand, eight people are dead, and many, many more injured, so the thought that somehow there's a review and nothing's happening, it seems appropriate for the next level of inquiry, and i think the attorney general did a good job. >> now, you take bribegate -- remember that case a couple years ago? kathleen kane didn't want to prosecute that case, and then seth williams jumped on it in a matter of seconds, and that's kind of a role reversal here, wouldn't you say? >> i think that was clearly political. i don't think this is political. i think that josh shapiro has a real commitment to wanting to restore the integrity of the office. i think he didn't want to have questioning. he'd rather go through a legitimate legal process

and let the facts come out. >> right. well, i think people want to know how did it happen? what happened with this guy? we heard that he got a lawyer almost instantly, and i still don't know the story. was something thrown at the vehicle? is that what happened? why would you end up with this kind of carnage and not get an answer? >> it's gonna be a tough case. >> the only facts that we do know that have been reported are that there were no substance-abuse issues. he was tested for everything. he was not on his cellphone, which is what a lot of people wondered about whether or not it was an episode of distracted engineering, if i can call it that. but i also think that, to the point made earlier on the subject of there are eight people dead and a lot of people injured, and he was at the helm. so what's intriguing to me -- and i defer to the lawyers here. i don't understand -- it makes sense to me that there would be a review, but, to my knowledge, to have a judge say and direct -- essentially direct the attorney general's office to bring charges, i think,

is unusual. so maybe there's something there, but hopefully the courts will reveal it. >> got to go to "inside stories of the week." we'll be right back. ♪

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. >> four fresh inside stories of the week. we start with george. >> in the supercharged political environment that we're in, david hyman, my good friend and i, were talking the other day how we made political decisions in that we would first decide what was right and then try to maximize the political benefit or minimize the political damage. today people seem to decide what's right politically and go from there. >> thank you, george. dom. >> my inside story, given the antagonism that i see toward cops in philadelphia, i'm working with john mcnesby to honor those rookie trainees who were aboard the bus in maryland, who, according to accounts, didn't even wait for their bus to stop before they jumped off, rode to the rescue of those children

with the bus that was overturned. >> thank you, dom. donna. >> in the spirit of renewing the machine, the democratic machine, that is, i want to acknowledge the tremendous turnout in wards well beyond what we would have imagined in this election, and in the 9th ward, 11th division, in which i'm a committee person, i'm gonna be retiring from that role. so i am soliciting anyone who lives in the 9th ward, 11th division, if you want to be a committee person and be part of the new machine, send me an e-mail. >> thank you, donna. brian. >> i think there's a chance for great peace in washington, d.c., and i'm really looking forward to next week, because wawa is supposed to announce next week their first store in washington, d.c. so what could bring people together to hold doors for each other after a terrific announcement this past week in east market, but that they may have the first delivery to apartments from that store? now in washington. peace and good coffee will be coming there. >> you mentioned holding

the doors. the weird thing about wawa's, everyone holds the door for you, but then they try and go past you with their cars when you're trying to get out of there in the parking lot. >> but then you're back on philadelphia streets. >> yeah. >> it could be the biggest thing to happen in washington since air-conditioning. >> i think so. >> a lot of people say congress is doing too much, but we'll see. i mean, hoagies for both sides of the aisle. yes, sirree. that's it for "inside story." we'll see you next week. i'll see you monday morning on action news at 4:30 a.m. goodbye. >> i'm gray hall, coming up next on him "action news," a woman five months pregnant is found dead following a suspicious fire. we have the latest on the developing story. a community in shock after an overnight fire killed three people in wynnfield. president donald trump makes historic speech in saudi arabia. you'll hear what he said about the global fight gains terrorism. those stories -- against terrorism. those stories and the exclusive

accuweather seven-day forecast is all next on "action news." >> thank you for joining us,

sunday may 21 i'm gray hall. innydia han is off. here's some of the stories we're following on "action news." we're following developing news a pregnant woman was found dead after a suspicious fire in north philadelphia.