>> local politicians get involved in the battle over taking a knee during the anthem. so, what now? on "inside story" right now. ♪ >> good morning, everyone. i'm matt o'donnell. it is sunday, october 1, 2017. let's meet our insiders of the week. we have larry platt, journalist, with us. good morning, larry. >> morning. >> christine flowers, journalist and attorney. good morning, christine. david dix, who is new here on the panel. not his first show, though, but the government-relations executive. we want to welcome you to the program again. >> welcome, david. >> thank you. >> just so you feel at home. and sam katz, documentarian. good morning, sam. >> morning, everybody. >> all right, let's get in on this. we shall see later today during the nfl games if those on-the-field protests will continue into week 4. pennsylvania and state senator mike regan of york county proposed a nonbinding resolution to condemn the nfl protests.

p.a. gubernatorial candidate scott wagner said, "we aren't a nation that kneels for freedom. we stand for it together." judge dwayne woodruff, a supreme court candidate and former pittsburgh steeler said of president trump's call to fire nfl players who disrespect the flag only serves to push our country to become more divided and ultimately penalizes our first amendment rights under the constitution." let me start with you, david, because you're new here. give you the first shot on this. how do you bring -- so much rhetoric. >> right. >> how do you bring both sides of this issue together? we're talking about the people who believe that kneeling disrespects the flag, disrespects military, police, and also the people who want injustices to be heard, and this is the form that is most popular. >> there has been a lot of rhetoric and hyperbole around this issue. i think it's important to take a step back and understand how these protests began. began over a year ago, when colin kaepernick, at the time, an active nfl player with the san francisco 49ers, decided to first, and during the

pre-season, sit during the national anthem, protesting the racial injustice, protesting the police brutality that has been going on around this country. when consulting with a green beret, he was encouraged to not sit but take a knee, to kneel. and the first game of the season, he began taking a knee. players joined him on the team in taking a knee, and that protest was a protest against racial injustice and police brutality. and we've kind of morphed it into this thing now where it's like, "take a knee, not take a knee." and i also want to point out that taking a knee -- in my catholic faith, we call it genuflecting -- is the most respectful thing you can do when trying to offer -- offer respect. so it's something, in my catholic tradition, that has shown great respect. you don't walk into a church without genuflecting in the presence of god, and i think colin kaepernick, under the advice of that green beret, who was his friend, did a legitimate thing to protest something he saw was worthy of protest but

protest in a very respectful way. and i think that respectful way has kind of gotten away from the point. >> so you say problem with perception, really, in a way. >> listen -- listen -- >> how do you fix that? >> it's not even just a problem with perception. racism is so inherent in america that, oftentimes, when you call racism out, they think you're calling america out. we're not calling america out. we're calling racism out, and i think that's something that should find unity of purpose rather than division. >> david makes a really good point there, and i'm a catholic, too, and i did notice the genuflection. there was almost sort of a parallel with tim tebow, although tim tebow was just doing it purely in a religious way. and what david is saying, as well, is important that we need to focus on the message that is trying to be sent by these protests. on the other hand, i can empathize with people who are truly offended by what they see as a form of disrespect toward

the principles -- the overriding guiding principles of the country, which have nothing to do -- which pre-existed the whole idea of an assault on young black men because of the racist -- the police brutality and everything. we're talking about -- as bob costas put quite well on another program, he said, "we have these ideals of the united states, and we can't see ideals, so what we do is, we have symbols that represent those ideals." we have a flag, we have an anthem, which, by the way, the nfl is older than the stars and stripes, the "star spangled banner" being our national anthem. but there are people, and not just veterans and not just police officers, who believe that we shouldn't be injecting this cultural issue into something which is purely athletic. it is a sporting event. and some people said to me, "well, christine, if kaepernick and these individuals don't do

it here, how else are they going to be able to show their concern for racism in society?" and i said, "investing in society with their money." i mean, these are individuals who are -- and i know -- i know they have, but it's become more of a focus of take a knee, stand, link arms, and i think it's -- it's making a mockery, in some ways, of the true civil-rights protests of the '60s. i mean, my dad went down to mississippi in 1967 to register black voters. this, to me, is more of a show than anything else. >> let me get larry in on this. and you're probably gonna mention malcolm jenkins. you have a partnership with the citizen, your website, who goes above and beyond his protests on the field, right? >> that's right. so, malcolm jenkins is writing a weekly column on criminal-justice reform for us at the philadelphia citizen, and i think, in malcolm jenkins is sort of the answer to this. he's not just protesting. he's going beyond protesting and actually seeking understanding.

he's going on ride-alongs with cops, he's learning from community members, and he's advocating for reform, like the clean slate act in pennsylvania. and in malcolm's take, i think, is the sort of answer of solutions as opposed to just rhetoric. but i will say that politics and sports have always been intertwined. you know, the civil rights movement didn't start with brown v. board of ed. it started seven years earlier when jackie robinson crossed the color line, muhammad ali and the vietnam war -- you could go on and on. so i think this is in the tradition of civil disobedience in america. and, finally, i will say that, we wouldn't be talking about this were it not for president trump's comments. and the conservative pundit john podhoretz had a great tweet, which is, "trump's pavlovian, and we're all dogs," that by pointing fingers and

arguing about this, we're taking his bait. this is divide-and-conquer politics. he wanted to distract us from healthcare failing again and so forth. >> sam. >> i was gonna say exactly that. i think donald trump has demonstrated the most unpatriotic performance among all of us by dividing us. that's not what the president of the united states is intended to be. that's not what george washington had in mind when, for example, he resisted calls to enter the -- a war between france and england. that's not what he had in mind when he stood up for the constitution, for the ratification of it. the president of the united states is the person who finds a way to bring us together. i can appreciate trump's being offended by people disrespecting the american flag. it's a teaching lesson, not a dividing lesson. and he chose, in his language, in his rhetoric, in his nonverbal communications, and in

this outrageous performance at that rally, to say to us, "i'm with you. i'm against you." and he's been doing that throughout his presidency, which has, i think, weakened him to the point where -- how is it possible that a president with both houses of congress, committed to repealing and replacing obamacare, can't get to 50? this was the guy, by the way, who said, "elect me. i know how to make a deal." no, he doesn't. and, no, he doesn't know how to lead this country. >> young people have seen this -- young football players in high school, maybe lower than that. we haven't really seen many instances of these expressions on the field at our local high schools, at football games, but we know, in the diocese of rockville centre, which is in long island -- private schools, catholic -- reminded students there this week that its policy forbids protests during the national anthem at its sporting events. how do you feel about a private school preventing that from happening and even these displays happening amongst youngsters who may or may not

understand what exactly they're about? >> i'm glad you're mentioning the thing about private schools. whether you agree with it or not, i think a private school has absolutely every right to do what it feels is appropriate for that particular school. there has been this conflation of free speech with the first amendment, and this is not a first amendment issue, with respect to the nfl or with private schools, because, again, only the government can impinge and impose upon your first amendment right to freedom of expression. you can -- the nfl may be bound by certain employment discrimination contracts, a private school may be limited by state law, but as far as the first amendment is concerned, only the government can be charged with having violated your first amendment rights. now, some have said that president trump has done that because he's the chief executive. he has no power to hire and fire nfl players, so his opinion, while i would definitely agree

with sam -- he is dividing us and he's distracting us from puerto rico and healthcare and all of the other failures that have occurred. >> david, any opinion on the local expressions? >> i mean, i always think -- and if you look at the history of the civil rights movement, it was led by young people, and i think the fact that young people are gravitating to colin kaepernick's expression of protest is a good thing. now to christine's point, in a private institution, you may be reprimanded for making those types of expressions, but i also think i want to point out a couple other things. one, the boycott, right? so, there's a boycott on the nfl that was based on the fact that colin kaepernick was blackballed from the nfl for his protest. is he one of the top 70 quarterbacks in the world? absolutely. is the reason he's not in the nfl because he protested last year? absolutely. the second thing is, these pageantries of patriotic pageantry that happen before a game are relatively new. >> they are. >> it started with, first, a $5 million offer from the department of defense to the nfl to fly these planes across and

have streaks of red, white, and blue, and all this pageantry is an effort to recruit folks to the military. so i don't want to conflate -- like, this is not the history of the nfl. this idea of having these large pageants before the game has never been inherently a part of the game. and the folks -- the nfl players who have decided to protest with that time are respected by me for doing that and should be honored for doing that. >> you want to wrap this up, larry? >> i think it's a great point about kaepernick being blackballed, 'cause let's not forget, there's an element of hypocrisy when the owners linked arms with the players. none of them signed colin kaepernick, and this is a guy who had 16 touchdown passes and 4 interceptions on a bad team last year. he could be backup in this league. >> a backup, but maybe that's what they're saying -- they don't want the baggage with the backup. if he were a franchise player, if he were a terry bradshaw, joe montana, maybe they could deal with it, but not for a backup. that's one the reasons. >> two white guys. >> well, he's much better than terry bradshaw, and he was voted by his teammates last year as the best teammate on the san francisco 49ers. >> sunday, football, at

1:00 p.m. we'll see what happens on the field before the games are under way. now, philadelphia unveiled its first public statue of an african-american. it took until 2017 to happen. the statue just outside city hall is octavius catto, a 19th-century activist whose work predated the civil rights movement. ward bosses shot and killed catto in 1871 on the first election day blacks were allowed to vote. now, if you've seen the "philadelphia: the great experiment" series by sam katz here, our documentarian, the episode "tasting freedom: the life of octavius catto," you know full well who this man is. a lot of people didn't maybe until the statue was unveiled. so, sam, why so long, and what does this mean for the statue across the street of frank rizzo, the future of that? >> i like the first question. the statue took so long because it's been only white men who have been honored and memorialized in philadelphia with statues. there is a statue across from the franklin institute honoring

colored soldiers. there's an african in the statuary of city hall. but octavius catto's statue is the first to memorialize an african-american. why it took so long is because we have a history of racism in this city. why are all the schools -- so many of the schools named for white ward leaders of the 19th century? you know, that's because they did their dues -- paid their dues to the republican party. why are there no statues of any women in philadelphia? and i think that's probably -- i hope that's probably next. catto was the most significant civil-rights leader of his era, and on the day that he was murdered, six other people were murdered, 50 were shot, many were beaten up, homes were burned in order to tamp down black turnout in the first mayoral election in which black men in philadelphia could vote. they were sending a message. the democrats lost that election anyway, and the republicans went on to 80 years of a corrupt and contented city. so there's a lot of irony in

this story. but octavius catto was a baseball player, a civil-rights leader, he was a teacher -- a student and then a teacher at the institute for colored youth. he was an extraordinary guy who was killed very early in life, i believe, under the direction of the ward leader of the 4th ward, william mcmullen by a man named frank kelly, who was brought back to trial in philadelphia seven years later and acquitted by an all-white jury. this is a story philadelphians need to know. they can find it at historyofphilly.com. >> a little less than a minute. in fact, about 30 seconds. i have to feel that the rizzo statue may actually remain in place. give or take? i mean, what do you think, david? >> it looks that way. we have 1,500 statues. this is the first statue of an african-american in a majority african-american city. we had a conversation around taking down the rizzo statue. we got an afro pick. you know, this disingenuous way with which we treat the majority of our citizens in this philadelphia has to stop. octavius catto -- i spent moments on monday in some quiet

time with our octavius catto statue, and i was moved by seeing someone who looked so much like me and on the city hall apron. and that's a moving moment. i hope that continues with more moving moments of african-americans. there are any number -- w.e.b. du bois, paul robeson -- that we could be honoring, and i think we should. >> real quick, larry. >> can i give props to sam katz? because it was like 2009 when he started talking about octavius catto, and i give him all the credit in the world, because i think that and the book by murray dubin and dan biddle really brought this to the fore. >> and the work of carol lawrence, jim straw, and jim kenney to make sure this statue came to life. >> "inside story" will be right back. >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact.

♪ >> back with "inside story" here. pennsylvania's top election official says, "russia tried to hack us." secretary of the state pedro cortés met with homeland security, which he says told him the hackers scanned the state's election computer system, looking for weakness so they could access the system. now, cortés adds homeland told him there is no evidence of a breach and that the hackers also targeted 20 other states. larry, what do you think the russian hackers were looking for, and how concerned should voters be about this? >> well, i think it's

fascinating that this story continues to come out in dribs and drabs. the election was almost a year ago, and it's largely because we have an administration in denial that there was an attack. we were attacked. democracy was attacked. and this denial -- delegitimizes his election, and so it's a real problem. this was an act of war against the united states. >> i totally agree with larry, and i'm -- you know, i'm really angry that the feds have known this for months -- about 10 months -- little bit less than that -- and they're just now communicating that to the states, to pennsylvania? you know, "tag, you're it." it's ridiculous. this whole thing about what larry said is absolutely right -- the president is ignoring it because he doesn't want to delegitimize his

situation, his status. and to -- we just spent a whole segment talking about the nfl and talking about protests and talking about things that were triggered by president trump to deflect attention from these more important issues like infiltration of our system by a foreign power. whether or not it was effective is irrelevant. they are the enemy. we are americans. you don't stick up or ignore enemy attacks. >> i did want to mention that, and, david and sam, you can jump in on this -- it was ineffective, which, i mean -- whole foods gets hacked, equifax... they couldn't get in. >> right. >> that's kind of good. >> it was ineffective, but all this talk about last year's election takes away from the fact that they are still doing this. there are reports out now that there are these russian troll farms with 600 people in there, and they just drive up noise. they're taking positions, both "take a knee" and, you know, "get rid of all the s.o.b.s," and they're driving this noise on twitter, on facebook -- just

recently acknowledged a breach. buying these ads -- and these are the russians doing it. and not only are they doing it in the united states, they've shown evidence they've done it in germany with the recent election, they've done it in france. i mean, when have we been attacked as americans in this clandestine way and just said, "oh, we're off -- wash our hands of it"? no, we are under attack, and we have to see this as a coordinated attack that this is one portion of. and the fact that they are literally still buying ads on twitter, facebook right now should concern all of us. >> wouldn't you have liked to have had facebook and twitter when you were running for mayor, sam? >> to use against my opponent, but it'd have been much more effective used against me, i suspect. [ laughter ] i had an uncontrolled mouth, so i'm sure at 24/7, i would've been seeing that. the problem that i see right now is exactly -- there are two kinds of war now. there are kinetic wars and there are cyberwars. and in the 21st century, the cyberwarfare is going to be much more prominent than the kinetic war of the 20th and 19th century. would we facilitate -- would we allow a military company, like

any of the big -- boeing -- any of the big military industrial vendors to become pawns of a russian initiative in a kinetic war? of course not. but we are allowing facebook and twitter and instagram and all of these other infrastructure assets for the cyberwar to be used by the russians and others. this is a moment in time when the president and homeland security and all of the national-security agencies of the country need to be forthright with the united states -- the people of the united states -- that these attacks will undermine our democracy. had they gained access to the election commissions of the 50 states, just a small number of changes of votes which no one in a counting mode would've noticed, could've changed the outcome of the election. donald trump is president. he's gonna be president for whatever period of time that's going to be. it's time for him to look at the future and make sure that the democracy that he is now so concerned about as nfl players kneel on the sidelines of a

football field are preserved for the rest of us. >> what about the public? i mean, a lot of people are gullible, and not only that, studies prove that once a lie is out there, the truth never overshadows the lie, no matter how many times you try and say it. >> and that was the mission of these troll farms -- to take "fake news," to use the president's word, and just drive it out there. and the folks who are taking it, not analyzing it, and then reposting it was really having an affect on the electorate, on the minds of the electorate. >> it also caused real, real harm. remember the pizzagate thing, where the hillary clinton -- there was as guy involved in some kind of pedophile -- and there was a shooting. i mean, this is horrific. >> what do you think, lar? what do you think the public... >> the most disturbing thing about, if you watched oprah's focus group on "60 minutes" with voters, the most disturbing thing was how many of them said "this russia thing is much ado about nothing." and this is where i think media needs to break through the noise and cover this like you would cover it as a sneak military attack.

>> we got to go. inside stories of the week coming up. ♪ after 8 years of chris christie, is kim guadagno the change new jersey really needs? guadagno is christie's hand-picked successor. says she's "proud to be part of the christie administration." guadagno was chris christie's right hand as our schools came under attack, critical services were underfunded, and our credit rating was downgraded...11 times. from the bridge to the beach,

we've seen it all, and we've had enough. kim guadagno isn't the change we need.

>> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. >> inside stories of the week. we start with larry. >> matt, we talked about nfl players, and i want to talk about another nfl hero -- jon dorenbos, the long snapper for the eagles, who the eagles traded to new orleans. had open-heart surgery about 10 days ago here at the university of pennsylvania. he's recovering beautifully. the most positive, optimistic person i've ever met. he was doing magic tricks for all the other patients. >> that's great. thank you, larry. christine. >> matt, dr. seuss is apparently racist. there is a librarian in cambridge, massachusetts, who was upset that melania trump, the first lady, sent books to her school that included dr. seuss, who, apparently, is

racist. so, i have a poem, and i need my glasses for this. "i am christine, christine i am. i do not like green eggs and ham. i do not like librarians who look for hatred where they can. and where it's not, they shove it in." >> thank you, christine. david. >> well, with all the talk of, the celebration of octavius catto's statue, along with the protests that have been going on in the nfl, i don't think it's hard for us to find racism anywhere. and i want to remind folks that i'm standing with colin kaepernick. as long as he's out of the nfl, i won't be watching. i missed the exciting finish last week. i had the kaepernick jersey on proudly. and there are millions of americans -- african-americans, particularly, standing with me. >> thank you, david. sam. >> philadelphia magazine published a cover story this week about -- this month about jeffrey lurie, who is a really fascinating character, and i encourage people to read it. but probably the most interesting thing is, jeffrey grew up with a brother who was autistic, then referred to as mentally retarded. and jeffrey just announced the eagles, jefferson university hospital, drexel, and

children's hospital, a major fundraising initiative to attack autism both in research and services, and i think kudos to them for doing it. they're gonna try to raise a ton of money and create a new engagement around philadelphia in autism. >> all right. good show, everyone. really enjoyed talking to all of you. and for you, thanks for watching. puerto rico's in our minds and in our hearts, the devastation going on there. if you want to help, we encourage you to go to 6abc.com. i'm matt o'donnell. have a great sunday, everyone. ♪ >> i'm in nydia han along with gray hall. >> volunteers are up getting donations rowed for puerto rico. two women die in a knife attack at a french strain station. authorities thing it's terrorism. the eagles go west for another big win.

>> those stories and more when up next on "action news." : new jersey is facing an epidemic fueled by opioid painkillers. vanessa: we want you to know that recovery from addiction is possible, but you need to know the signs. they can be hard to spot: social withdrawal, financial problems, irritability. christie: if you see these signs occurring together or suddenly, you may have cause for concern. the signs you spot today... vanessa: ...could save a loved one tomorrow. christie: call 844 reach nj or visit reachnj.gov.

october 1. here's a look at the stories we're following for you on "action news." aid is moving, but puerto rico says there's an enormous need for basicses. oj --