>> the major-party candidates for philadelphia district attorney on "inside story" right now. ♪ good morning, everyone. i'm matt o'donnell. it is sunday, november 5, 2017, and welcome to a special edition of "inside story," where we're going to meet the two major-party candidates for philadelphia district attorney. to my right, we have beth grossman, the republican candidate. good morning, ms. grossman. >> good morning. happy to be here. >> and larry krasner, the democratic candidate. good morning, mr. krasner. >> good morning. >> all right, let's get right into this, and we're gonna start with restoring dignity to the office that both of you seek. seth williams, the last person elected to that office, district attorney, is now in a jail cell, and he's likely gonna be there for the next five years for accepting a bribe, and we're gonna start with you, mr. krasner. why are you the best person to restore dignity to the office, boost morale

amongst the people that still work there, and the investigators? >> well, i wouldn't say i'm the best person in the world. i think that there are probably a lot of good people because most of us don't take bribes, and most of us are really more interested in doing the right thing than we are in lining our pockets or having a lot of glory, but i think the way that you have to do this, of course, is to set a standard, and you need to make it very clear to all of your staff that there are no favors, that there are no gifts, that you will not tolerate anything of that sort. you got to do the kind of thing that liz holtzman did in brooklyn, which was if someone flashed a bag to get a free ride on public transit, they were fired. i mean, you got to be serious about that, but at a larger level, we have to look, also, at issues of, i would say, institutional corruption. there are far too many supervisors, and a lot of them were made that for reasons having nothing to do with running a good office. they were more social or political on the part of seth williams, and also we have to look at things like civil asset forfeiture, which has, frankly, turned into a form of institutional corruption where people's property is taken without

justification. >> ms. grossman, restoring dignity to the office you seek. >> certainly. well, obviously, you lead by example, and whoever is district attorney -- and hopefully me -- you have to set the highest of ethical standards, and, again, similar to what my opponent said, no taking of anything, no favors, no economic benefits. you have to have a strict code of conduct. nothing will be tolerated. you can't accept anything economically, nor should you do anything with regard to sentencing an offer in cases. i think that's very important. the other thing is, i think if elected d.a., i would be out there as many meetings as possible to account what the office is doing to the public because you are serving the public, and you need to listen and hear what the public wants out of its district attorney's office. certain things need to be streamlined there. there are too many supervisors, and you have to make the most economical use of our budget. >> both of you want to be the top law enforcer in the city of philadelphia, so let's talk about policing. ms. grossman, you're gonna get the first one here. police brutality and police

safety have always been big issues in law enforcement, but more so today than ever before. so, why don't we start out with trying to find a balance? how would you, ms. grossman, balance supporting the police, in what is a very dangerous job, while also ensuring members of the community are not unduly harassed or even harmed during investigations of crimes or during moments when police have to go out there and try to maintain order? >> well, first of all, it's very important to have a good working relationship with the philadelphia police department. i certainly have worked, over the years, with commissioner ross, as well as commissioner ramsey. i know a lot of the command staff, but that being said, during my time in the district attorney's office, i have investigated and prosecuted police officers, and let me make clear, nobody is above the law. for a police officer, whether you're on duty or off duty, if you commit a crime, it will be investigated, and if there is sufficient evidence, he or she will be prosecuted, but, also, it's important to continue

to work with commissioner ross to improve trust between communities and the police department, such as continuing to decrease stop-and-frisk for no reason. that cannot be tolerated, and it's also really working out there, joining with the police department, and improving and engaging with the community so they understand that there can be trust between the police department and the d.a.'s office, but, look. officers have to do their job. it is tough. it doesn't always mean that it will rise to a criminal incident. >> mr. krasner, policing -- balance between the two that i mentioned? >> so, you know, in my opinion, the right and conservatives forever have tried to make us think we have an either/or situation, that somehow holding police officers accountable makes us unsafe. that's a bunch of nonsense. there's absolutely no contradiction between lifting up good police officers by pushing the bad ones out of the way and making us all safer. that's how you make us safer. you have one standard of law

that applies to everyone whether you're rich or not, whether you're famous or not, whether you wear a uniform or not, whether you're a politician or not. there has to be one standard, and no one complains when seth williams goes to jail even though he is a law-enforccer, even though he is a lawyer, because we know that's fair. well, the same thing applies to police, and to the extent that you do that, you restore trust in the police, you lift up the good ones, and you do that, simply put, by pushing the bad ones out of the way. >> mr. krasner, we're gonna talk about stop-and-frisk, which ms. grossman mentioned, and we'll get you a crack on it. let me ask it this way. what would you tell members of a community in philadelphia, a particular neighborhood, who believe that stop-and-frisk has made their neighborhood safer, and they're willing to accept that as a fact and that as a practice? what would you tell them in saying, "well, we're just not going to do it. i'm sorry"? >> well, what we are gonna do is we're gonna permit legal -- i repeat legal stop-and-frisk. what we're not gonna permit is illegal stop-and-frisk, and it's not even as if i have a choice.

the chief prosecutor takes an oath to uphold the constitution. illegal stop-and-frisk violates the constitution, but i would also say, let's use a little science instead of just use our own anecdotal reasoning. science is clear. forty-nine out of 50 times when you do stop-and-frisk, you find nothing, and when i say "nothing," i mean, you don't even find that bag of weed that's in the back pocket of some kid. you don't even find that pocketknife that's a little too long, and you only find a gun one out of 400 times. so we have to not just look at what is found, we need to look at the reality that when you do that to 50 kids, 49 of them having done nothing wrong, and you humiliate them because they are in a poor neighborhood where they will be enforced more strictly than they will in chestnut hill, what's gonna happen is you're gonna alienate those 49 kids, and the ones who wanted to be cops don't want to be cops anymore, and the ones who might give information to police to solve homicides are not gonna do it anymore. >> let me go on to ms. grossman on that -- stop-and-frisk. you already said that you don't favor it. >> well, it has to be done if there is articulable, reasonable suspicion that that crime is afoot.

it cannot be done for profiling. it cannot be done just to harass people, because that does build distrust in the community. so it's not going to help anything, and we have to uphold the constitutional laws of our nature. that's the way it is, but i think if there's trust built by decreasing stop-and-frisk, then i think people are gonna feel more comfortable actually approaching police officers to say, "look. this is going on. can you do something about it?" so you sort of have to approach crime-fighting in a different way and healing bridges between communities and the police department. >> let's talk about crime victims, and as district attorney, you or any of your assistant d.a.s will be the ones who have to make contact with these people, make them feel safe, make them feel like there's going to be a judicious process. so, ms. grossman, to a victim of a violent crime -- let's say, perhaps, like a rape or an aggravated assault, or let's say you're dealing with a relative who lost a family member to a murder, how would the d.a.'s office care for these people? >> well, first, in my

21 1/2 years as a prosecutor in the d.a.'s office, i have dealt with victims from all walks of life, including young children all the way to senior citizens. so the d.a.s are trained to speak and treat people with respect. we also have wonderful working relationships with amazing victim-witness organizations, such as women organized against rape, women against abuse, and our geographic victim-witness services. so they provide services to people in the courtroom as this horrible trauma has to be relayed when people have to testify. so we sort of work together, along with victim service providers from the police department -- they have victim witness officers -- so it's sort of a team approach, and we make sure that people get the resources that they need. >> mr. krasner, handling victims of crimes. >> well, first of all, i am a victim of crime. i was slashed in the face about 10 years ago in center city, philadelphia. i have repeatedly represented victims in my capacity as a private attorney, including right now two little girls whose mother was run over by a drunk driver and killed. so i have very strong feelings

about victims being handled properly, and i think a lot of what ms. grossman is saying is true, that there have been efforts to do right by victims, but if we look around the country, there's a lot more that can be done, and we need to do a lot more for victims. i should not have had to do the things i had to do as a private attorney to help victims, both in the court and also with things afterwards, and when i did so, i often encountered, frankly, resistance from the district attorney's office in terms of providing paperwork or videos or the things that were necessary to help these little girls get the kind of financial assistance they should have. so we need to do more, and i think we can do more if we look around the country for good examples. >> mr. krasner, what would you say to a parent in philadelphia who worries about their child being wounded or killed by a police officer under suspicious circumstances? and i also pose that question to ms. grossman. >> well, as many people know, i have worked as a civil rights attorney for almost 25 years, and part of the work that we have done has included, when we thought it was justified, filing lawsuits against police when we believe that there was brutality or there was corruption, or someone was being framed for some reason, and

we've done that more than 75 times. so, number one, i have no reservation about prosecuting people who are in uniform and are intentionally committing crimes. i have no reservation about that. this d.a.'s office for 30 years has, sadly, been essentially a cover-up organization for improper activity by police officers. it's been that way for reasons that are political, by which, i mean, all these other d.a.s who came before me wanted to run for office across the state, and they were more interested in ingratiating themselves to the police union than doing right by the citizens of philadelphia. so what i would say is, we all know that police officers sometimes make a mistake. well, a mistake's not a crime, but we also know they sometimes commit crimes, and if they commit crimes, they will be treated just as well and just as harshly as anybody who does not have a uniform. >> ms. grossman, parents who worry that their children could actually be put in danger when in contact with police. >> well, look. let me make clear again, as i said before. i have prosecuted police officers and investigated police shootings, and if there

is a police shooting, it will be investigated. if it rises to a criminal level and offense, then that officer will, indeed, be prosecuted. i must object to what my opponent said. the d.a.'s office, i'm proud of my 21 years there. he may think it's a corrupt organization, but, listen. he took mr. jack mcmahon, who ran for d.a. as a republican, with him when he wanted to address the f.o.p. so if you're saying it's been corrupt for 30 years, that's who you took with you, and i find that hypocritical. >> let me turn this question around, and we'll start with ms. grossman. what do you say to the spouse of a philadelphia police officer who worries that a split-second decision by that officer may end up costing that officer his life, costing him his job, costing him his reputation, and is it fair that we are able to debate that split-second decision for days, weeks, months, years? >> it is a very, very difficult thing when it comes to a police shooting because none of us have been in that situation -- i'm obviously going to assume

you haven't -- and it is a life-or-death, split-second thing, and one of the worst days of my role as a prosecutor was going to the scene with internal affairs when sergeant stephen liczbinski was murdered and was gunned down by an assailant. so it is a very nerve-racking thing for a spouse when his or her spouse leaves to go to work as a police officer, and all i could say is with police shootings, i will tell spouses, as well as officers themselves, that a police shooting will be looked at fairly and appropriately, and they will not be made an example of just because they are police officers. >> mr. krasner, split-second decision. >> i mean, it's very simple. there is one standard for everybody. we evaluate split-second decisions for people who have uniforms and don't have uniforms, and we take into account things like why they're there. if you are on location with a gun because you are a police officer, that is obviously a factor in your favor, but there aren't two standards here. there isn't "the police get the benefit of every doubt

and no one else does" standard. we have to be even-handed. we are endangering police officers by decreasing trust, by having a d.a.'s office that has historically covered up when there was a crime, all right? we can be even-handed. it's not that hard, and by doing so, we elevate the good officers. we make them safer because we increase trust. >> i think we have time for one more question before the break. i want to ask you about the ferguson effect. i'm sure both of you know exactly what i mean. it was mentioned by former fbi director james comey as a possible reason why some cities are seeing increases in crime as police maybe are backing off. some people think it's happening in chicago. do you believe, mr. krasner, that there is a ferguson effect in this country? >> do i believe that police officers are refusing to respond to emergencies? i mean, is that the question? i can't imagine that the good police officers would refuse to do their duty when they're paid by taxpayers, and i don't think that comey has a whole lot of credibility in any regard for a lot of reasons we probably remember from the last election.

>> ms. grossman. >> well, from just speaking to various people during the course of this campaign, i do think that some police officers here will have some hesitation to do their jobs in light of my opponent having sued the police department over 75 times, and i think there is some fear and trepidation that they will be made examples of and prosecuted because they are police officers. >> may i respond to that? >> i'll let you respond, and if you'd like to respond, as well. i'll give you 20 seconds. >> i think it's pretty irresponsible to suggest to police officers who are paid by the public, by the taxpayers, that it's okay at any level for them to decide that they're going to do or not do their duty because of some, frankly, phony message about what it is that the district attorney might do. you can't kidnap a city. >> ms. grossman, would you like to respond? >> well, i certainly hope that that is not the case because everybody deserves to be safe in their neighborhoods. >> more questions for the candidates for philadelphia district attorney when we come back. >> 6abc's "inside story" is presented by temple university.

♪ why are south jerseyans turning against steve sweeney? it's because sweeney's been exposed as a double dipping pension padder. caught spending campaign money on lavish dinners and fine cigars for his pals. investigated for being a lobbyist and a senator at the same time. sweeney voted to raise taxes 145 times while our economy continues to struggle. south jersey is a mess, and it's time to take out the trash. on november 7th, make a change. dump sweeney.

he's a husband, father, veteran... but most of all, he's a fighter. chris brown has never been afraid to take on the big fights. that's why he stood up to republicans and democrats alike to fight the north jersey casinos and the takeover of atlantic city. chris brown is fighting to protect jobs in our region... a true champion for the working men and women of atlantic county. on november 7th, let's keep him fighting for us. chris brown for state senate, he's on our side. ♪ >> back with the candidates for philadelphia district attorney. next question's going to you, mr. krasner. we're gonna talk about corruption in philadelphia politics. the list of politicians who have gone to jail, even recently, is embarrassingly long -- seth williams, chaka fattah, vince fumo, john perzel, corey kemp, rick mariano. there's another case involving

strategists that is unresolved at this point. is there an inherent reason why so many politicians in our town end up this way? >> that's a great question. i think that there's an inherent problem with politicians, which is, i think, for the most part, they end up -- i don't know how they start, but they end up being so egocentric and so concerned with their own careers that they get into shenanigans, and those shenanigans often involve moving money in ways you shouldn't. we've also had three justices of the supreme court, including seamus mccaffery, pushed out for some pretty outrageous behavior. so it is -- i mean, it is a local embarrassment. it is a statewide embarrassment. i think we need to push a different direction. i think one way to do that, frankly, is to stop doing things the way we've always done them. >> ms. grossman. an inherent reason -- like, is there something inherent in philadelphia that might be part of this? >> i think -- not to say one party is better than another, because you see it on both sides, but when one party is in control for so long,

it really does lead to complacency and corruption, where it begins to become the accepted behavior. well, that's how we do, and, to me, it is so wrong for the public. when you're a public servant, you serve the public, not your wallet, not your aspirations, and i think it really bears looking into, and i think prosecution is proper. it's got to stop. >> another question i'm going to ask your expertise, both of you, in criminal justice. philadelphia's homicide rate is among the highest among big cities in the u.s. it's 14% higher than last year. new york city almost has fewer murders, and it's four or five times larger of a city than philadelphia. why is philadelphia so violent, ms. grossman? >> you know, i think we really have to focus on investigation and strong prosecution of gun crimes, especially illegal possession of guns. i think that is a huge problem. there's too much easy accessibility. when a 16-year-old can get ahold of a .45-caliber weapon, it's horrifying, and you need

to focus on gun dealers, such as straw purchasing. we have a gun violence task force at the d.a.'s office, and you need to also look at possible are there gun dealers where you're seeing an alarming amount of straw purchases out of there, or things not being monitored, possibly, and, also, drugs are also tied into that, you know. >> mr. krasner, why is philadelphia such a violent city? >> well, you know, there are some short-term issues, things we can do that have not been done by my predecessors, and they include going after gun shops, and they include requiring people to report when the weapons allegedly disappear, but the bigger picture -- we got to get real -- is that this is the poorest of the 10 largest cities. it has some of the worst education of the 10 largest cities, and it's the most incarcerated of the 10 largest cities. we are putting our money in the wrong places. you want to stop crime, you have to start with education, you have to start with job training, economic opportunity, and drug counseling, among other things. >> mr. krasner, are there too many people in prison in the city of philadelphia, and, if so, what do you tell people who would have to live

amongst them if they are released? >> so, the truth is, for over 30 years, we have been engaging, and by "we," i mean the prosecutors have been engaging in a radical experiment of locking up as many people as possible. we have the most incarcerated of the 10 largest cities. we have a 700% increase in jail population in pennsylvania in the last 30-plus years, and since the 1970s, there's a 500% increase across the country. this is what conservative republican politics have done to our country. so, absolutely, there are too many. we got a high rate of incarceration for people of color than there was in south africa during apartheid. it's absurd. >> go to ms. grossman on that. >> well, interestingly, the d.a.'s office for the last several years, 30-some years, have been democratic rule, so let me point that out, but over the last several years, i have to say, there have been some good things that seth williams actually did, including working more collaboratively with the public defender's office, with the court system, and probation and parole for diversion programs for less serious offenders

so they're not getting jail time. they're getting treatment, job training, g.e.d., and if you invest on the lower-level crimes of diverting people, it's almost an investment to keep them from recidivating and graduating to more serious crimes, and many of these diversion programs that i like actually have expungement eligibility so people will serve their debt and then move on and become productive members of society. >> on top of that, the cost of reform are always so high. does the city have the wherewithal to spend the money to make sure that these people don't commit crimes again? >> look, i think you have to invest up front, the d.a.'s office and the court system, and we're always gonna need as much money as possible. if it comes from outside funding, we're working with macarthur grant that actually gave the city $3 million to work to decrease prison population. so you have to look for outside funding, as well. i think that's very important. >> mr. krasner on that. >> i mean, macarthur award is basically an award for being absurdly incarcerated, and that is, in fact, what this d.a.'s office has been doing for 30 years.

i mean, you can't, on the one hand, say we're reforming and not own your record. we have a failing report card from this d.a.'s office for making us safer, and we have a failing report card for reducing prison population. it's that simple. >> we have time for one more question. i'm gonna jump ahead to something about marijuana. the state's going to allow medical marijuana at some point in the future. should it go further or should it go backwards? >> this state should permit recreational use of marijuana by adults in the same way we do beer. 80,000 people a year die from alcohol. zero die from marijuana. the reality is that we have a choice. we can either be on the tail end of the legalization of marijuana, and we can have no tax benefits from it in the same way that pennsylvania was on the tail end of gambling, or we can recognize up front that in 18 months, new jersey will have recreational and medical marijuana, and there will be a ton of money pouring into their schools while our schools fall apart. >> ms. grossman. >> i don't have a problem with the legalization of it for recreational or medical. again, i agree with my opponent. it's for adult use, not minors. they shouldn't be using it,

and, also, i really don't -- same as an open container law. i don't like public nuisance and quality-of-life issues. people should not be smoking it walking down the street, but beyond that, i have no problem with that. we have a far bigger crisis, which is the heroin and opioid crisis that we have to focus on. >> closing statements after the break. ♪

after 8 years of chris christie, is kim guadagno the change new jersey really needs? guadagno is christie's hand-picked successor. says she's "proud to be part of the christie administration." guadagno was chris christie's right hand as our schools came under attack, critical services were underfunded, and our credit rating was downgraded...11 times. from the bridge to the beach, we've seen it all, and we've had enough. kim guadagno isn't the change we need. kim guadagno isn't why arit's because sweeney'sing been exposed as aeeney? double dipping pension padder. caught spending campaign money on lavish dinners and fine cigars for his pals. investigated for being a lobbyist and a senator at the same time. sweeney voted to raise taxes 145 times while our economy continues to struggle. south jersey is a mess,

and it's time to take out the trash. on november 7th, make a change. dump sweeney. >> 6abc's "inside story" is presented by temple university. ♪ >> closing statements from the candidates. we start with beth grossman, the republican candidate. >> thank you very much. this race is about experience and qualification. i served for 21 1/2 years in the philadelphia d.a.'s office, serving in almost every unit in there. i have experience. i know what has worked in that office, i know what hasn't, and i'm particularly proud of having run the public nuisance task force in the d.a.'s office, where i was able to work with community groups all throughout the city, dealing with nuisance and quality-of-life issues. i want to run the philadelphia d.a.'s office with integrity

and with transparency and to the highest of ethical standards. so i ask people for the privilege of their vote come tuesday, november 7th. thank you. >> thank you, ms. grossman. larry krasner, the democratic candidate. >> thank you. tuesday, november 7th, is a crucial day for all of us. it's very important because we have a real choice in this and other elections, and whoever you support, i'm asking you right now, get out and vote on tuesday, november the 7th. now, having said that, i see this as a race about a movement, and it is a movement for criminal-justice reform both here and across the united states that recognizes we have been on a radical social experiment of incarcerating far too many people while failing to protect and support victims the whole time. we need a society that is safer and more just. it's not hard. what we have to do is just start treating people equally and not picking on them because they're poor and not picking on them because they're different. it can be done, it will be done, and i ask you for your vote. >> allow me to be the third person here to remind all of you who live in the city of philadelphia and who are

registered to go out and vote on tuesday. philadelphia district attorney's race, here are your major-party candidates. i want to thank larry krasner and also beth grossman for joining us here on a special edition of "inside story." >> thank you. >> and we'll see you next week. i'm matt o'donnell. thanks for watching. ♪ i'm janet reyes, nydia han and gray hall are off. coming up next on "action news" an 18 year-old was shot blocks from temple university 's campus what we are learning about the investigation. and, all smiles and thumbs up for one camden county police officer as he recovers from being shot, at point blank range, last week. and plus, the seven-one eagles face off a against denver this afternoon in south philadelphia, why players say

that they are not under estimating the broncos. those stories and the accu weather forecast and more coming up next on "action news". reyes. christie: this is governor christie. new jersey is facing an epidemic fueled by addictive opioid painkillers. codeine... oxycodone... fentanyl... morphine. these are just some of the medications prescribed for pain relief. these pills can be highly addictive, and the addiction doesn't end when the prescription runs out. many times, people turn to a deadlier option - heroin. addiction is a disease, but help is within reach.

call 844 reach nj or visit reachnj.gov. why arit's because sweeney'sing been exposed as aeeney? double dipping pension padder. caught spending campaign money on lavish dinners and fine cigars for his pals. investigated for being a lobbyist and a senator at the same time. sweeney voted to raise taxes 145 times while our economy continues to struggle. south jersey is a mess, and it's time to take out the trash. on november 7th, make a change. dump sweeney. good afterno