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has neith >>itt b supporters push back ttmneyinh ou m um hmu t one us that support mr. ump you nk the rcan race is sty? i haveo f erythingyre lif >>esident frank underwood, or should i say kevin spacey? one of them will be with me this morning. and joining me for insight and analysis are, david brooks of the "new york times," kelly o'donnell of nbc news, republican strategist mary matalin, and stephen henderson of the detroit free press. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. if the dump trump movement needs a candidate to rally around, his name just might be ted cruz. cruz and donald trump each won two contests yesterday, but it was ted cruz who emerged with

some renewed momentum. cruz easily won the kansas caucuses beating trump by a better than two to one margin. cruz also took the main caucuses with 46% of the vote. 13 points ahead of trump, another double-digit win there for cruz. but trump also took two states last night winning the only primary in louisiana, but he won that by a much smaller margin than polls had indicated. and trump won the newly created kentucky caucuses, but again, it was by just a four-point margin over cruz. smaller than what many had predicted. overall cruz won 70 degals last night to trump's 61. so cruz won the night on delegates. although overall trump still holds the lea in the delegate count. but as important as delegates hope last night. >> maybe right now you're supporting marco rubio or john kasich.

clear is if you want to beat trump donald trump, we have to stand united as one. >> i want to congratulate ted on maine and kansas, he should do well in maine because it's very close to canada, let's face it. i mean. >> on the democratic side by the way bernie sanders won two out of three states, but hillary clinton won the most delegates. let me walk you through it. sanders beat clinton by better than two to one in the kansas kau sus caucuses. sanders also won the nebraska caucuses but by a smaller margin, 56-44, the clintons spent a little time in nebraska, they didn't campaign much in kansas. but despite the sanders kansas, nebraska, see what we did r the history teachers, clinton won the primary by a huge marge 71-23, and that gave clinton the majority of delegates overnight. so overall with her support from superdelegates, clinton's lead in the delegate count has

sanders. but as we said the big news was on the republican side. and even as ted cruz's wins gave hope to this growing never trump movement, donald trump had a message for republican leaders who think cruz has slowed his momentum. >> i would love to take on ted one-on-one. that would be so much fun. because ted can't win new york, he can't win new jersey, he can't win pennsylvania, he can't win california. >> republicans desperate to sink trump's presidential bid for months are finally speaking out. on thursday the party's last nominee denounced its current front-runner as a phony and a fraud. >> think of donald trump's personal qualities. the bullying, the greed, the showing off, the absurd third grade theatrics. >> and yet his speech only seemed to cement trump's support. >> if mitt romney thinks that about mr. trump, then he must think that about every one of us

we are not phonies and frauds. >> i think what's damaging the republican brand is trashing front-runner at this stage. >> and trump crudely reminded voters that four years ago romney accepted his endorsement. >> i could have said, mitt, drop to your knees, he would have dropped to his knees. he was begging. >> romney has joined what is now a growing republican never trump caucus. >> he's attacking all of the core tenants of the republican party's platform. >> i reject trump and i'm encouraging other republicans to do the same. >> i will not stop until we fight a man that chooses not to disavow the kkk -- >> these were donald trump's -- >> and donors are pouring millions into a last-ditch effort to defeat him. >> donald trump made millions while hard working americans got scammed. >> republican leaders aren't just worried that trump would lose to clinton, they worry that trump at the top of the ticket would put the senate and even the house in jeopardy.

times," the senate gop heeder has assured republicans up for re-election that they can run ads against trump if needed, quote, we'll drop them like a hot rock. >> i don't remember saying anything like that to all of you. [ inaudible question ] >> i don't remember saying anything like that to all of you. >> some republicans are so desperate to stop trump they're ready to bury old rivalries and unite behind whoever is best positioned. >> if you nominate trump and cruz, i think you get the same outcome. you know, whether it's death by being shot or poisoning, does it really matter. we may be in a position where we have to rally around ted cruz is the only way to stop donald trump. >> reporter: but trump's republican rivals. >> i will go anywhere to speak to anyone before i let a con artist get ahold of the republican party. >> reporter: even one who calls him a con artist undermine the idea that trump is unacceptable. >> i'll support the republican nominee. >> yes, because i gave my word i

>> i'll support whoever is the republican nominee for president. >> so in the end it may be that trump's real opponent isn't named ted cruz or marco rubio or john kasich, but perhaps it's mitt romney. some heard governor romney's speech on thursday and thought, hey, maybe he's interested in the nomination. well, governor romney joins me now this morning. governor, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> thank you, chuck. good to be with you. >> well, let me start with the results from last night, a better than expected night for ted cruz, not as good of a night donald trump thought he was going to have, do you think you had an impact? >> i think i had a big impact. i think a lotd of people were surprised by how well ted cruz did. he got more delegates than donald trump last night. he was aenthusiastic, donald trump was uncharacteristically low energy last night. i think he was really surprised. i think this is a campaign that doesn't begin to be over. i have a feeling it's groek e going it break a few more rules before we finish.

emerged as the chief anti-trump candidate and are you ready to back him? >> well, i think he's emerging now. he had a strong night won seven states to donald's ten states and i wouldn't writeoff marco rubio or john kasich at this point. marco rubio very strong in florida. more recent polls have him within a few points of donald trump. and john kasich leading in ohio. so they may be favorite son candidates or may emerge down the road being a very strong candidate on their own. >> you had said it's a time for choosing. you seem to indicate that on march 16th it's a time for choosing. is that when you are going to endorse an alternative officially? >> i may well at that point. it depends of course on what happens that night, but, you know, i'm leaning towards supporting someone and going out on the campaign trail and try to convince people to vote for the person who i think can help the country in a very critical time. and who also can represent conservative values and conservative ideals.

>> let me confirm, are you comfortable supporting john kasich, marco rubio or ted cruz? any one of those three candidates against donald trump? >> absolutely. any one of those three is a real republican. they've demonstrated over time that they share conservative values. there's some differences on policy or on tactics to implement policy, but i'd be very proud having any one of them at the top of the ticket. donald trump on the other hand is someone who represents something entirely different. and in my view is not at all the real deal. this is a guy who pretends to be one thing and is something else entirely. >> you know, i want to go to something you said about donald trump's business background in your speech last thursday. let me play a clip. >> his bankruptcies have crushed small businesses. and the men and women who work for them. he inherited his business. he didn't create it. airlines? how about trump university? and then there's trump magazine. and trump vodka. and trump steaks.

a business genius he is not. >> however, when you accepted his endorsement four years earlier, this is what you said about his business background. >> donald trump has shown an extraordinary ability to understand how our economy works, to create jobs for the american people. i spent my life in the private sector, not quite as successful this guy, but successful nonetheless. >> governor, all those unsuccessful businesses that you outlined on thursday, trump airlines, trump university, trump vodka, those are all failures before 2012 as well. were you just sort of saying something you had to say four years ago in order to accept his endorsement? >> well, donald trump has made a lot of money for himself. and there's no question that he's got a lot of money in his pockets and has been successful on that score. but if you look at his record overall and there are other, by the way, failures, you say, okay, he made a lot of money for himself. inherited a lot of money from his dad, but this is not a guy

and this is a guy who's crushed a lot of people along the way. >> why did you say nice things about him four years ago? why did you say so many nice things about his business career when clearly you're not impressed? >> you know, he's made a lot of money for himself and i'm gracious enough in a setting where someone's endorsed me to point out that he's been successful, made a lot of money, has a lot of hotels and so forth, but you can't ignore the fact he's had a lot of failures. he tries to sell himself in this campaign as nothing but success successful. he's not a loser. he's lost time and time again and crushed a lot of people in the process. and the thing that i find most unusual, and perhaps outrageous, is that even though he says he's worth $10 billion, he finds it in his interest to go out and bilk people of $10,000 here, $15,000 there for trump university. these people have really been scammed. i want to make sure the american people are not subject to the same kind of scam as we nominate a president. >> i understand that. but i want to go -- you did, you laid out a whole bunch of things

not just his business background. you thought his support for terrorists could lead to a trade war, you were pretty critical of the vulgar language he uses, the insulting of muslims. he was pretty insulting of muslims four years ago. he was the face of the birther movement, which has been totally discredited. and i got to play you something here, in 2011, listen to this vulgarity he used. >>ed the messenger is important. i could have one man say, we're going to tax you 25%. and i can say another, listen to me, [ bleep ], we're going to tax you 25%. >> governor, it's sunday morning so we had to beep that out, but it was this horrible frankly f-bomb tirade he went on. it's been making the rounds on youtube. again, in 2011. so i go back, do you believe you mainstreamed trump, made him acceptable? and do you regret it? >> chuck, there are a lot of people who supported me who i'm sure used the f-bomb and other

vote for me in the general election. and i'm not endorsing all 61 million people for president. and i'm happy to accept the endorsement of a lot of people who i disagree with on some issues, and some people who i wouldn't want to be associated with the things they say. but i at this stage am at a point where looking at donald trump and the future of the country. and we say to ourselves is someone with his record and someone who believes the things he believes which in my view would lead to a recession and to a trade war and lead to a world being less safe, do we want that person to be president of the united states? do we want that clip you just saw being on tv for our kids to see time and time again? even the debate, the presidential debate last week donald trump is saying something i don't want my grandkids to watch. so this guy, look, he may be colorful, he may have made a lot of money for himself, he is not the person who should be president of the united states. >> but in hindsight i take it you're embarrassed that you stood next to donald trump four years ago?

he said more recently would have made it difficult particularly with regards to the clue clux ku klux klan, things about muslims in particular, i would have had a difficult time standing next to himou years ago. >> you made that compelling speech, some called it the clearest indictment of trump yet that anybody had done. and hours later the three candidates running against donald trump sat on a debate stage and all pledged to support him if he's the nominee. did that disappoint you? >> i think it was expected. they had been asked that from the very beginning of the campaign. and they've pledged to support whoever the nominee was and they had to stand by their pledge. but you saw with few exceptions they hesitated when it came time to answer that question. it was a difficult one for them to swallow. you know, i respect the fact that they honored their word as ted cruz said, but donald trump is a more and more difficult person to support in part because he says, look, he's going to become presidential, he'll act presidential and even

reaction to my speech, he's anything but presidential. >> you have said you will not support either donald trump or hillary clinton for president. you would look for another way, maybe you skip the vote, maybe you vote for a third party candidate, is donald trump becoming president worse in your mind than hillary clinton becoming president? >> both of them are pretty darn bad. as lindsey graham said, a poison or a bullet. and i'm going to be voting, but i'll vote for someone who's on the ballot that i think is a real conservative and who would make us proud. and i may write in a name if i can't find such a person. >> do you believe there should be, if trump's going to be on a glide path to the nomination, do you think there should be a concerted third party effort by republicans, maybe it's the constitution party, maybe it's something else? >> i'm not going to encourage at this stage the creation of a new party. but i think it would be very difficult for donald trump in the final analysis to get the nomination. i think we're gng to nominate someone who really represents our party. and i believe that will happen

but if the convention has no one person getting a majority of the delegates, then we'll have the 2,000-plus delegates there and they'll have to make an asaysment. they were elected by their people in their respective states make the judgment asto who should be our nominee. >> you told my colleague on friday you would not be a candidate for president. but let me ask you the way general sherman was once asked. if nominated, will you accept the nomination, if your name is placed in the nomination and was elected at this cleveland convention, would you accept it? >> you know, i can't imagine anything like that happening. and i don't think anyone in our party should say, oh, no, even if the people of the party wanted me to be the president, i would say no to it. no one's going to say that. but i can tell you this, i'm not a candidate, i'm not going to be a candidate. i'm going to be endorsing one of the people who's running for president. and one of the people -- i can guarantee you this. one of the people running for president, one of the four, is going to be the republican party nominee. three of the four are people i would endorse. but i'm not running and i'm not going to be running.

governor mitt romney, i will have to leave it there. governor, thanks for coming on. good to see you. >> thanks, chuck. good to be with you. >> you got it. when we come back, if trump can't be stopped, could we be witnessing the breakup of the republican party as we know rose.welcomhe w116, you y ac townnute cross obe undhourwhcommunitare ng ms anlar saes provrth wiund cln wer. ess a century, boeitookhe worldseap pacenes, as thiverseeyond. anou t as a, you just wait. e neglses?they are. do i lsmarye, a littleyou'reing y no youting

doknowok, do get yfees if u' not happy? (dad laughs) w, you're laughi. th's not tay the d wo wee wos chanare you asking enough quons abe wa weaisaged em at cha sb.every you read headlaboubunessesbehaednd ielleop bng s thats cyr- an affecach everof u microsoft created the dil crimes unit to fight cyber-c useicroftloudvie inion so we ack wnhe criminal en it tloud, trusansecuri are paramoun building what learn ba inte clou to mopleortionr. welcome back. there are six more contests by the way coming up in just the next few days.

caucuses in maine. and then puerto rico holds its republican primary today. then on tuesday republicans have caucuses in hawaii and a primary in idaho, and both parties have primaries in mississippi and michigan. michigan perhaps is the big prize, and so we have a brand new nbc news/"the wall street journal"/marist poll to show you this morning, it has donald trump way out in front at 41%. ted cruz and marco rubio sitting much farther behind. and john kasich, who is hoping for a big boost from michigan, we have him languishing in last place. we know there are other polls that indicate he's stronger. we'll find out on tuesday. and on the democratic side let me show you numbers, hillary clinton with a comfortable 17-point lead over bernie sanders, but both campaigns have indicated to me they believe this race is much close r than what our polinge ing polling indicates. . we bring in our panel. stephen henderson, editorial page editor for the big

the bigamimy primary the detroit free press. stephen, welcome to you. let me just start with mitt romney. i feel like there's two different reactions here between david and mary. david, what was your sense of romney on the trump endorsement and romney leaving that door open about running? >> first on the romney on what happened thursday, finally. finally somebody's beginning a sustained attack on donald trump. and to me every republican office holder if they want to save their party has to continue that attack. and it's not an attack on things people like about him that he's politically incorrect and a bully, that's what voters like. it's attack that he betrays people, he's a betrayer and narcissist, thinks only about himself. i think everyone's got to hit this note. they've got credited examples of people scammed by trump university, trump mortgage, all the other stuff. and keep this going day after day. >> mary, did you think it was effective? you weren't so sure the romney speech was effective. >> i think it was the wrong

although david's right about the substance of it. because when you attack trump the person, you're trumping the people who support him. when you show that his business record isn't good and all that other stuff, then you make people think this is evidenced in the late vote went to cruz in louisiana and -- >> well, actually, let me show you since you brought it up, let me show you the louisiana numbers. this is from our friends at 538 they were able to compare. this is what according to the early vote totals, donald trump, look at that, 24-point lead. election day itself, louisiana has some early voting, election day itself was a total tie. that says a lot. clearly late breakers for cruz. >> i will add to that cruz won the delegate. we pick our delegates by caucus, so he won those two. but i think rubio hurt trump more than romney hurt trump. but rubio hurt himself in doing it. but what mitt did say, which is

is now. and if the party wants to stop trump, they have to stop kasich. and they have to stop rubio. and they have to stop them right now, saving rubio the embarrassment of losing his home state. if trump goes through florida and ohio, it's over. when you reallocated your michigan vote, all the carson votes went to anybody but trump. >> right. >> and most of them went to cruz. he's a real deal conservative. i don't know what's the problem -- >> kelly, we know the problem on capitol hill, right? >> absolutely. he does not have many friends there. but one of the problems is the party starting to say stop trump does not offer the voters one choice and so reluctant to do it in your interview with mitt romney not willing to choose someone else right now. so those against trump who say he's not truly a republican, not really a conservative, but then you have, you know, this never trump crowd. and then you have the voters who say, well, no forever trump. if you tell me never, i say forever. >> right.

>> there's also a substantive credibility, you have republicans saying trump is not one of us and yet a lot of things he's saying are said in coded language by other republicans. i wrote a column last week about paul ryan for instance saying this is not a party that preys on people's prejudices and yet you think of lots of examples of republicans doing exactly that going back to ronald reagan giving a states rights speech in 1980 in mississippi. this goes on all the time in coded ways. trump is saying these things more explicitly and it makes things uncomfortable and i know it does too. >> no, it doesn't make me uncomfortable it makes me want to choke you because it's ridiculous and it's the creation of trump. conservatives do not consider themselves bigots or homophobes. he is x paend expanding the electorate bringing in like-minded libertarians, young people. trump is expanding the electorate by getting people who

because they want to secure the border, that's not -- this is not a race race, okay, let's not go there. >> i think it is. i mean, i think there's no question what he's doing is appealing to race and republicans have done that for a long time. >> by the way, there was something else donald trump did yesterday and grabbed my eye, and, dave, i have to show it to you and get you to react to it as well. here it is. >> i've never done this before. can i have a pledge, a swearing? raise your right hand. i do solemnly swear that i no matter how i feel, no matter what the conditions if there's hurricanes or wter, that's good enough will vote on or

trump for president! thank you. >> david, the visual, the hands go up, trump asks for a pledge. >> wow. i was flabbergasted. the number one trait that associates or correlates with trump's support is authoritarianism. we live in a democracy where we recognize other people and we make messy deals. and we're always sort of disappointed. that's what politics is. there's two ways to run a country like that. you can either run it with democracy and compromise or through authoritarianism. for some reason there's something in the electorate right now people feel they're losing out on things, that they want a strong leader who will show me the way. and that's what -- >> but they want a strong leader who's consistent. you can't be flexible on or sketchy on rules of engagement, flexible on the border or compromising on scotus, on the supreme court, you can't do that. >> how is donald trump anything but flexible?

torture and everything this week. >> that undermines the message. if the messenger is the message that undermines his credibility as an authority figure. >> was that a sign of weakness? a, he didn't anticipate the visual of how that would stand over time but also signaling to voters i'm worried you'll not show up? >> it's a fair point. as you point out he also had the date wrong. >> early voting is one -- >> when early voting shuts down but probably confusing to some people. we're going to take a pause. back in a little bit. senator lindsey graham will be here. and he has said this. >> my party has gone bat [ bleep ] crazy. >> all of the words we used today on "meet the press" are something else. anyway, he now says it may be timeack cru to defeat donald trum anden ler -- ou' right. i am still whiteh. i jhapp whe tras ives in the white house.

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or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. fibromyalgia may have changed things but with less pain, i'm still a doer. ask your doctor about lyrica today. lyrica, move forward with less fibromyalgia pain. data download is brought to you by lyrica. welcome back to our "meet the press" data download. the convention may be in july, but it's possible that donald trump's opponents have just nine days to truly stop him. why? because it all comes down to winner take all states florida

let me break down a few scenarios to explain why time is so short. here's the delegate count as of this sunday morning. so so far here as you can see trump has won 45% of all delegates awarded so far. that's majority. that's pretty important. let's assume he wins that same 45% for all of the remaining contests through march 15 besides florida and ohio. we're going to do some estimates here. if trump wins both florida and ohio on march 15th, here's what happens. he would end up with a nearly 300-delegate lead, huge gap here as you can see. and of course his chances, marco rubio, john kasich both probably drop out if they lose their home states, so trump would need to just win 51% of all remaining delegates in a one-on-one versus ted cruz. that's probably very doable when you think of places like new york, california, et cetera. but what happens if trump only wins one of the two big states? well, we did that math too. if he wins florida but kasich wins ohio, polls seem to indicate, our projections look

and that respect trump then would need to win 57% of all remaining delegates. that's tougher, but actually still somewhat doable. and if trump wins ohio but rubio wins florida, by the way, it's kind of a similar story. but here's where there's trouble for trump. and it comes if rubio and kasich both win their home states. then trump would need 67% of all remaining delegates in order to avoid a contested convention. guess what, it's an extremely heavy lift especially because rubio and kasich, you think they're dropping out if they win their home states? no way. all four stay in, the likelihood of the contested convention nears 100%. and, oh my, would cleveland rock then. in any other year with any other candidate we'd say this nomination was locked up, but that conventional wisdom totally out the door. conventional wisdom has been proven wrong over and over this cycle so we'll see when and how it gets proven wrong again.

lindsey graham joins us on the perils of nominating donald trump and of denying him the nomination at the convention. and later -- >> i've got jokers to the right and here you are stuck i ank you we'l wityoshortl yeah... pred ana help cos pra be and faustomeperien. llo mr. cai reour fl? i'm here! customer care can wo b wi wa hermr. nt? ashaivin xex person emp als compa makeits sile and ... nywhe. hu danci jumpin human resourn rk bter. wither. hibout s,

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