the middle east in turmoil. a high stakes crisis for president obama. from war in gaza to the threat from iran, this morning i'll ask former u.s. middle east envoy what a potential ground invasion for gaza means for the future. my exclusive interview in vienna, with iran's foreign minister. his tough words for israel and resistance to u.s. demands in crucial nuclear talks. he insists iran will not dismantle nuclear capacity because it has no interest in making the bomb. back home to politics of the immigration crisis. can the president find agreement with republicans to stop the flow of illegal immigrants.

>> announcer: from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with david gregory. >> good morning. israel is stepping up its attacks on gaza despite international pressure for a cease-fire, ground invasion as israel sends ground troops into gaza and warns residents to evacuate homes. palestinian authorities say people have been killed. air raids as far north as tel aviv sounding as hamas continues to launch rockets into the country causing damage and injuries but no deaths. i'm joined in the first television interview since stepping down last month's as obama administration u.s. emboy. he served as american ambassador during the clinton administration. martin, nice to see you. thanks for being here. what's next. what is the ground invasion? is it to stop hamas ground fire.

>> extremely reluctant to go in order ground. doesn't see how this can serve israel's purposes. what he wants is an end to rocket fire and looking for ways to press hamas to do that pushing them out of the northern parts of gaza to try to put pressure on hamas from the civilian population and give him room to clean up the rocket firing launches. but he's very cautious man when it comes to using force. i think he's very reluctant to go in. in a scene hamas knows that. the bluff of mobilizing all of these tanks is not working in terms of getting hamas to stop firing. >> the backdrop is a horrible breakdown of the peace process you were in the middle of and tried at the behest of secretary kerry and president obama. now you have an unraveled situation that unravels further. what does american leadership

have to look like now. is it to press for cease-fire, to constrain israel or what? >> yes, to press for a cease-fire. i don't think it's a problem on the israel side, the problem is on the hamas side a soois fire. they are looking for something to claim as a victory and looking for someone to pay salaries of hamas people in gaza because they have been cut off by natural source of revenues by egyptians. the whole question is how do you leverage hamas. i think president obama and isn't kerry want very much a cease-fire and are willing to do what they can to achieve that. until hamas decides it will call off the rocket fire, it's hard to see how this comes to an end. >> there's probably an agreement among israel, even the palestinian leadership is important for people to understand president abbas, egypt as well, they would like hamas to go and maybe a chance for peace between israel and the palestinians. what does it take to get that to

happen? >> i think you're right. there's a strange confluence of agreement that hamas is the problem for egypt and passing authority under mahmoud abbas and israel. but to actually change things, take control away from hamas, gaza, would require a major ground operation by right lane, clean out hamas with its 20,000 militia and all of those rockets and then, perhaps, have u.n. come in and take control and hand over to the palestinian authority. that kind of stirring up of the status quo with all of the costs involved is something that notwithstanding a confluence of interest none of the parties are willing to. >> less than a minute now. you said fundamental lack of trust and bad blood between the israeli leaders caused the peace process to break down. what did you mean? >> beyond that what we can see

is all those factors. but essentially what we discovered is secretary kerry strongly believed the status quo is unattainable. he's been proven right again here today. what we discovered was the status quo was actually sustainable for the two leaders more than for us. that's why we really couldn't achieve a breakthrough. that's what we're seeing at the moment again. maintaining the status quo is less costly in terms of political risk and in this case loss of life than really shaking it up and making peace. the problem with that situation becomes a chronic situation in which a preference for the status quo leaves a vacuum that's filled by extremists and violence. then the parties try to clamp some stability back on, but there's no fundamental breakthrough to the kind of risky, costly decisions necessary to achieve peace. we're ready to do that when they are ready but we can't do it

without them being ready for it. >> thank you so much for your perspective this morning. very interesting, you think they will be restrained on the part of israeliround invasion to tensionally into gaza. martin, thank you so much. i want to turn to more foreign policy challenges facing president obama. israel on the brink, as we discussed, with hamas. isis terrorists control iraq and syria the threat from iran, is it pursuing nuclear weapons? this morning secretary of state john kerry arrived in vienna to take part in high level talks aimed at forcing iran to abandon its nuclear program. he says chances remain slim for a deal. i travel to vienna for a wide ranging interview with iran's foreign minister zarif. i started by asking the foreign minister why iran was determined to keep its extensive nuclear capacity if it claims it doesn't want a nuclear bomb. >> actually, i think what we

have said should give confidence to people we are not looking for nuclear weapons. we have said our entire nuclear energy program can fit in a very clear and well-defined picture. that is, we want to produce fuel for our own nuclear reactor, nuclear power reactor. we have a contract that provides us fuel for that reactor. but that contract expires in seven, eight years. >> but re-upping that is not a problem, as the americans have told you. >> actually, it's more complicated than you think. the united states built a reactor for us in the 1950s. and for the past 20 years, we've been searching all over the world for fuel for that reactor. the united states has not only not provided the fuel itself but has prevented others from

providing fuel from iran, to the point three or four years ago we had to announce if you're not giving us 20% of fuel for the american built reactor in tehran, we have to produce it our self. it's not that we couldn't do it. we did it and now it's running on fuel. we want to make sure nobody is concerned about iran's nuclear point. >> to that point if that's what you want to do, it's important our audience understands when we talk about centrifuges and nuclear power, centrifuges is how you enrich uranium. enriching uranium ultimately makes nuclear weapons, at a certain speed. if you really want to say to the international community, we don't want a nuclear weapon, are you prepared to dismantle a good portion of the nuclear capacity, the center of centrifuges you now have. >> i don't think it would do the

job. as somebody who worked all his life for nuclear nonproliferation, i can tell you the way to make sure iran will never break out allow an internationally monitored nuclear program. we have the technology. we have the know how. we have the equipment. so the only way realistically to deal with this is to have a genuinely peaceful program that can be worked in a transparent fashion without the need for imposing arbitrary restrictions. >> minister, with respect, the international community is divided about a lot of things. they are actually not divided about one thing. they think iran is up to no good and wants to build a nuclear weapon. why not say definitively that you will eliminate the bulk of your capacity, the bulk of your centrifuges to say to the world, we really won't build a weapon. >> the international community. the day i went to five plus one or e 3 plus 3 in new york, they

said present to the international community. i said i'm coming from chairing 120 countries where iran is the chairman and they support us. they believe actually 180 some members believe and they repeatedly said in 1990 and 2010 that a country's choices of their fuel cycle should be respected. so it's not the international community. it's a few countries who have concerns. and we are talking to them in order to address those concerns. but those concerns are international criteria, in order to address those concerns. we have given them opportunities to find resolutions, realistic resolutions, in order to address those concerns. one of those is to phase, as the leader pointed out, that we don't need this capacity tomorrow. we can produce this capacity over a length of time. we are prepared to work with 5 plus 1, with members of the 5

plus 1, with others in order to make sure the confidence is created. >> you won't commit to a specific number of centrifuges. another way of saying that is you won't commit to dismantling the bulk of your capacity? >> i will commit to everything and anything that would provide credible assurances from the international community that iran is not seeking nuclear weapons, because we are not. we don't see any benefit in iran developing a nuclear weapon. >> how could you not see a benefit. you're a shia state surrounded by sunni states, many of whom are your enemies. you know full well the deterrent factor a nuclear country like pakistan can wield in the international community. you can have more influence regionally. sin ins will say why wouldn't you want an international weapon. >> all this is wrong. in fact, we need to go out of our way in order to convince our

neighbors that we want to live in peace and tranquility with them, because the politics of geography, the fact that we're bigger, the fact that we're stronger, the fact we're more popular, the fact we have a better technology, the fact that our human resources is by far more developed than most of our neighbors, all of this have inherent areas of strength we don't need to augment with other capabilities. >> if that's the case -- >> that is what nobody considers. our neighbors in pakistan, as a stronger force in the region than iran simply because they have nuclear weapons. in fact, i believe nuclear weapons reduces country's influence in our region. it doesn't help anybody. the fact that everybody in the international community believes that mutual assured destruction, that is the way the united

states, russia and others seek peace and security through having the possibility destroying each other 100 times over is simply mad. that is why i do not believe you need to inculcate this mentality you think will make everybody safe. have they made pakistan safe? have they made israel safe? have they made united states safe? have they made russia safe? all these countries are susceptible, 9/11 is proof, no amount of military power makes you safe. so we need to lifr in a different paradigm and that's what we're calling for. >> let me ask you about a couple of other areas and i'd like to return to this in the end. lets talk about the war in gaza. iran supported hamas in the past. rockets fired into israel, israel believes were provided by iran. how do you see this situation playing out? >> it is extremely regrettable people are being killed. hundreds of innocent men, women,

and children have been slaughtered, almost 100 people have been killed, over 500 wounded in gaza, and the united states is not taking any action. we know that all the weapons that are used by israel in order to attack civilians in gaza have been provided by the united states and we don't see any move by the united states to condemn that. >> what about hamas firing rockets into the country of israel. >> to use the security council in order to put an end to this. we call for an immediate end to all these activities. >> you condemn hamas? >> we do not condemn people who are defending themselves. we believe that actions that are putting civilians in jeopardy in gaza that have placed restrictions on civilians to get access to medicine, to food, have tried to starve civilians in gaza, need to be vehemently

condemned by the international commune, united states and members of security council have a moral and legal responsibility to put an end to this. we regret they have not taken any action in order to deal with this. >> more of my exclusive interview later in the program as foreign minister zarif talks about iran in iraq and the threat from isis in our region. now i want to turn to the politics of the immigration crisis. a big story in washington. thousands of unaccompanied children continue to cross u.s. border. the president pressuring congress to help him fix the problem requesting $3.7 billion in emergency funds. i've got two key members of congress to talk about this. first here with me republican congressman mike rogers from michigan, chair of the house intelligence committee. chairman, it's good to have you here. what is working with the president here look like to find a solution? >> obviously when this happened, certainly appears most of the parties have gone to their mutual corners, if you will.

we've got to get through that. more importantly, the president has tools in his toolbox that he can do immediately to stop this. dianne feinstein, co-author of the bill who allowed for these folks not from mexico or canada that brings minors into the country not be deported right away. there's circumstances and she believes as the co-author, that would allow them to immediately and responsibly get these children back to their home countries. that's where the president needs to start. he needs to reengage, get folks doing administrative work on the border. they need to make sure they send a clear. this is an interesting thing, a bipartisan issue. hillary clinton says if you want to stop this, send them back, let them know don't put in the criminal pipeline. certainly dianne feinstein thinks there's a way for the president -- >> the majority of them have to go back home is your point? >> think about what we're doing. this isn't a walk in the park to get from fl salvador, honduras into the united states.

these are criminal gangs. these kids subject to sexual exploitation, drug exposure. some are being recruited or pressed into gangs along the way. we're losing these kids along the way. imagine the experience when they get here -- >> why turn them away? do you come up with a process to safely return them? >> we can safely get them home. the problem is by encouraging the behavior you see and not stopping this attitude. >> is that fair to say the president is somehow encouraging them to come? >> the policy on the border is certainly encouraging this behavior. if i believe and i'm in el salvador or somewhere else that i can pay a criminal gang through some dangerous circumstances to get to the united states and they are going to open up with loving arms to keep those kids, you're encouraging that behavior. >> state law, right? >> no, i disagree. even dianne feinstein, democrat from california said that's not right. that's a wrong interpretation of

his authority to get those kids back home safely and humanely. all our energy is on this. all the border folks are trying to figure this out and how to put them around the rest of the country. that time, energy is better spent trying to get them back home. it's better for the children. you don't want kids exposed to this sex trafficking, drug use. again, some of those kids are being recruited for gang use, press gang-type activities in these criminal organizations all en route up to the united states. >> do you lament -- you're going to be leaving politics. do you lament republican party stand on immigration reform, on an unwillingness to come together to find some path to -- a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants here to somehow fix some of these problems? >> to say this is a republican problem is wrong. >> republican political problem. >> democrats have the same problem. i think there's a way to move forward on this that's responsible.

most americans, off the charts, secure the border first. think of this, this is a problem we talked about. this certainly has serious consequences. by the way, the public health security problem is growing. we're going to have the highest number of measles case that we have in over a decade. 97% of those cases have been imported. so you have a national security problem, a public health problem. we have from 10 countries of interest afghans, pakistanis, saudis, other places, sudan, somalia, iraq, iran, we know that those individuals are using the southern border to infiltrate the united states. that is a serious national security issue. while all of our focus has been on this, guess what, they are taking advantage of the opportunity. >> we'll watch that as well. chairman rogers, always good to have your views. thank you so much for being here. let me turn to the democrats. castro from texas joins me now. you're from texas. your governor, governor perry, has been in the news a lot. back in 2012, he wrote the

administration and said we have an influx of illegal immigrants trying to get into the bored. why didn't the administration do a better job of heading this off before it got to this point? >> the fact is, david, that the administration has been trying to work with congress to pass an immigration reform bill for over two years. so it's been folks in congress and specifically in the house of representatives, who have not moved forward on a bill that would have helped us prevent some of the things we're seeing on the border now. >> you've got democrats saying now, additional money, changes to the law, is not what they want. there are democrats feeling pressure from immigration reform folks on the left saying you can't deport these people. that is not the humane thing to do. >> well, that's because that 2008 law, passed under george w. bush, was passed for a reason. the problems with sex trafficking are real. also, david, because many people believe these kids should have a chance to make their case for asylum. i think we've got to be careful

when we consider completely doing away with that law. >> you don't support what the president is saying here, which is the majority -- even the children need to be deported? >> well, i think -- those are decisions for an immigration judge to make, not for the president or myself or any member of congress. that's a decision the judge will make. but the point is these folks need to be given a chance to raise their case. it raises the question, who do we consider to be a refugee in america in the 21st century. that's a very tough question for us and tugs at our conscious. >> even democrats said this is a katrina moment for president obama, that it has not been handled well, wasn't anticipated well, hasn't been handled competently. do you agree? >> no. the fact is, this was not the president's last opportunity to get to the border. i think you will see him go down

there. i think it's important for him to get down there at some point, to let people know he personally is attending the situation. jeh johnson has been down there five or six times. he's keeping the president apprised of everything. also, david, to say thank you to the people of texas who have offered food, clothing, shelter, everything that they can to these kids to be helpful. >> congressman castro, we're going to leave it there. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. coming up next, our political roundtable, debates already scorching political summer in washington. we've been talking about the issue, foreign policy troubles, immigration debate, even republicans suing the president. >> he's been president for 5 1/2 years when is going to take responsibility for something. >> best thing you can say is they haven't shut down the government so far. [ male announcer ] we know they're out there.

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welcome back. at a time when washington is getting very little done and economic recovery seems uneven, cleveland, ohio, may be america's new comeback kid. lebron james is returning, you might have heard, and the gop is heading there for its 2016 twengs. this morning on meeting america kevin tibbles asks how cleveland

is beating the odds. >> reporter: happy days appear to be here again for a city once the butt of america's jokes. the triumphant return of lebron james is just another sign brawny blue-collar cleveland is coming back. steel mills flex their muscles. global giant has 2,000 employees and is hiring more. mike trains them. >> i saw my dad coming down here. every since i was little i wanted to come down there. provided for my parents, put five of us through college. i hope it does the same for me and my family. >> reporter: you can't build a city without beer says patrick conway. he along with his brother owns great lakes brewery. it's a modern environmentally sustained facility that is also expanding, located next to lake

erie's freshwater. makes sense. >> over 90% of beer is water. or in the case of bud light, 99%. >> restaurants and bars line streets that just a few years ago were derelict and dangerous. it is a cleveland in renaissance, driven by health care and manufacturing, the republican convention will visit in 2016. >> the republican party felt, why don't we be part of a city on the upswing. >> still, there is a ways to go. the slavic village neighborhd t foreclosure crisis and many of the scars remain. here, too, new building and hope. >> are you glad you fought for this community? >> absolutely. i wouldn't trade living here for anything. >> kristin and her family stuck it out. >> everyone goes through something negative in your life. it's what you do with that diversity that makes you or breaks you. >> as for cavaliers, time to

kiss and make up. >> a bad breakup. cleveland is for giving. whatever is best for the cavs, whatever is best for cleveland, that's what we're going to do. >> the king is back. long live the king and his town. for "meet the press," kevin tibbles. >> the roundtable is here rick santorum, 2012 republican presidential candidate, senator from pennsylvania. democratic governor from michigan, kim extrasel, editorial board member of the "wall street journal." first time, detroit free press, winner of the pulitzer prize. welcome. >> thank you. >> here is the big political question, rick santorum. if you're a candidate in 2016 and you go to the convention in cleveland, do you praise lebron for making a good political move here? >> i'm a pittsburgher, cleveland and pittsburgh tough rivalries, like sibling rival rice.

just like a sibling, when your brother does well, you're proud. i'm excited for cleveland. a good blue-collar town. >> just the fact he said i'm going to go back there and talk about hard work and contribute to my community, those are all very positive things. a lot of good mojo. >> i worked here in washington for five years and went home to detroit where my work could matter more. lebron is doing the same thing. >> the prodigal son. >> unfair swipe at bud light, which is my favorite. jennifer granholm, let me ask you about these challenges the president is facing on immigration. here he is, he loses the shot at getting immigration reform. now this border crisis and getting a lot of heat from those in his own party but doesn't look like he's engaged enough. doesn't look like he's done on the border. >> what's going to result in

policy, republicans in the house actually giving him what he's asking for, which is really what everyone is asking for. they want a quick due process. they want to be able to deport those who are appropriate quickly. they want to be able to make sure people are treated humanely so we don't look like the poster child of some third world country refugee camp. they want to make sure there is a message sent to central america if you send your kids here, the borders aren't open. all five of those things democrats and republicans want. >> what's holding it up, kim. >> the president here, people talking about the photo-op, the mistakes were made earlier in this. he has really set back the cause of immigration reform in this way. the republicans, a bit of a phony excuse saying the border is not secure, border not sure, presidential action on daca, it has inspired a lot of people to run up to the border now. it's given republicans an

additional reason to say this is why we cannot do reform. they bear responsibility for not taking a vote on this as well. if the president really cares about immigration reform, some of his executive actions in the past have really helped deter this. >> it seems to me, rick santorum, part of this is what kind of country do we want to be. have you a lot of tension about circumstances some children are going to get here and why they want to be here versus people in communities on the border and beyond saying we can't absorb all of these folks. >> first up, i disagree with kim. the border isn't secure. it's obviously not secure. the idea the republicans have this phony thing it's not secure, it's not phony. >> the kids are coming up and saying take me into detention. >> that's because we have a president who says, if you come, you're going to be able to stay because we're not going to enforce the law. >> he did not say that. >> answer that point. they obviously push back hard on that. >> i think what the president is

saying is for people who know no other country than this one, this should be home and should not be sent away. that's not the same as inviting. >> you say no other country. they came here illegally so they obviously knew another country. they didn't say decades, they said here. once they are here, they will be here, children from other countries. that was the message sent, obviously the message sent because you have tens of thousands of kids coming. >> a bigger picture here about a country, the sons and daughters of immigrants. >> i am. >> sitting around this table, yourself included, saying to other people who want no more or less than what your familyh the opportunity to be a part of the greatest nation on earth. we're saying to them with our broader policy we're not going to welcome you anymore. >> first of all, we're accepting more legal immigrants, whole same immigration, the very countries they are coming from. most immigration is tied to

people who are already here. >> let me get into just as the president wants some action on this with congress, we've got the specter of congress suing the president, talk of impeachment that boehner struck down. this had now become a huge fundraising opportunity on both sides, kim, to what end are we seeing this? >> there's been a lot of talk whether or not john boehner did this to gin up his base this fall. that's unfair if you look at the suit they are putting together, there's been a lot of attention and focus doing a very legally specific way. there's a huge believe among republicans that, in fact, the president has been exceeding his authority. they are going to do this in a very narrow way. they are going to look at this particular question of the employer mandate. the fact the law very clearly said it had to go into effect and the president unilaterally changed that. there's a lot of substance behind this. >> if presidents that were taking these steps on the affordable care act, democrats

would be crying foul. >> except george bush took these very steps when he passed medicare part d. nobody raised it by then. this case is complete hogwash. >> that's a legal term. >> a legal scholar says it's the legal equivalent of birtherism. it's not going to fly. but the reality, does anybody see the irony in the fact john boehners house voted 264 to 161 to delay the very provision he's suing to have the president enforce now. there is a bit of irony in this. >> rick, can you answer for me where you see this year in presidential politics? i ask that as a key to the debate the party on immigration, the party on foreign policy, national security policy and these grassroots issues on health care.

>> i talked about it across the country. we're a very divided country right now. that's not necessarily a bad thing. we're having really good debates on national security, other thins. what we need is a positive decision. won reason i wrote the book is to provide a positive way forward. right now we're arguing about a lot of things that are not, in my opinion, core to where the american public's concerns. the american public concern is middle in come americans, low in come aren't rising, seeing opportunities, that's what we have to focus on. >> one of the things the president's leadership, the question of iran and nuclear weapons, even if there is a deal, kim, there's going to be a tough sell to congress to say we think we've got a deal with iran, we should ease up on sanctions. it doesn't seem like either party is willing to let the president get that deal. >> this has been a good example of bipartisanship in congress,

both in the senate and house. democrats and republicans, they don't want to go back for it. they want tougher sanctions. >> did it resonate at home, the idea of the threat from iran and nuclear weapon? >> absolutely. anyone on the globe thinks we don't need more nuclear states in general, and we certainly don't need this state which has shown itself to be responsible. the interview you had earlier today shows how irrational the thinking is. >> do you believe, you worked on issues long and hard. >> we were in agreement watching your interview. democrats and republicans all laughing. >> not at you. >> no. we were laughing at him saying he must have the toughest job. weren't going out and lying, bald faced irrational lying, nobody believes these guys are trustworthy partners. >> it's striking republicans is likely in 2016 to argue forresteration around the world which is precisely how president obama, barack obama ran at the time. >> it is interesting.

the republicans have an internal debate. >> they do. >> with the missive rick perry lobbed against rand paul on friday calling him an isolationist. they better solve their own internal disputes. break out the popcorn. >> it's a legitimate debate. we have to have one. i know -- >> take a break, republican threat from isis, more of my interview with iran's foreign minister. why he said that kid: hey dad, who was that man? dad: he's our broker. he helps looks after all our money. kid: do you pay him? dad: of course. kid: how much? dad: i don't know exactly. kid: what if you're not happy? does he have to pay you back? dad: nope. kid: why not? dad: it doesn't work that way. kid: why not? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab

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we have been in contact before this horrific incident of the attack by isis and we continue to call on all forces in iraq to work together to form an inconclusive government. that represents and respects the wishes of the iraqi people. now, whoever the iraqi parliament can come up with as speaker of the parliament and as the prime minister, iran will respect as a neighboring country with influence. our advice to them is not to pick this man over this over this man of the our advice is to pick a government that can represent the entire iraq and bring peace and stability to the region. >> 170,000 people have been killed in syria, a third of them civilians. why does iran continue to support the assad regime. >> the question is why the united states continues to support forces like isis that are wreaking havoc in thisere. foreign minister, thank you very

much. >> thank you. >> the foreign minister of iran, my exclusive interview in vienna. jeffrey goldberg columnist for bloomberg view, national correspondent for the atlantic. some of our audience may not have heard prime minister zarif on his views and what he's saying. >> breathtaking interview, breathtakingly audacious. lets take syria, his government, primary government prime supporter of assad regions which used chlorine gas and barrel bombs to murder among others thousands of children. more than 9,000 children have been murdered by the assad regime. put aside everything else, just that alone -- >> the iraq issue stood out to you as well. >> this is one of the cosmic jokes of what he's saying. for years the iranian government was directly responsible for killing probably 1500 american soldiers in iraq. now all they want is for america to come back and kill iran's sunn