live from mcclain, here is nbc's "meet the press" moderator chuck todd. >> and good evening. i'm chuck todd and welcome to the virginia senatorial debate between democratic senator mark warner and republican ed gillespie hosted here by the chamber of commerce and news4. this debate is airing on all nbc stations across the commonwealth. nationally on c-span and

streaming live on nbcwashington.com. thank you for watching. let's cover the rules of the debate. we'll begin with two-minute opening statements from each candidate. then we will pose questions. these questions are determined by nbc news and the panelists and have not been reviewed by the candidates or the fairfax chamber. each candidate will have 1:30 to respond and the candidate answering first will also get an additional one minute to rebut. and as moderator, i do reserve the right to follow-up as needed. finally we will conclude with one-minute closing statements. there is a device to let candidates know of their time and when it's expired. we ask the candidates, of course, to adhere to these time limits. now let's welcome our panelists aaron gilchrist. he spent 14 years reporting in richmond covering governors. julie kerry has been covering

virginia politics for news4 for over 20 years. and karen is a national correspondent for "the washington post". she wrote for "time" magazine over a decade. now let's bring in republican challenger ed gillespie. and the democratic incumbent mark warner. mr. gillespie. you won the toss. you can begin with your statement. >> thank you. it's great to be on the chamber. i want to talk about my agenda for economic growth which will be a new and better direction for us than the obama/warner policies. i want future generations to have the same opportunities that i've had. my grandfather's an immigrant janitor. my parents never went to college. and i got to be counselor to the president of the united states of america. but i fear tha we're losing

that kind of economic opportunity and upward mobility as a result of the obama/warner policies. that's why i have put forward an economic growth plan. because the policies coming out of washington today are squeezing hard-working virginians between lost jobs, lower take-home bpay, reduced work hours. and they're making us less safe as a nation. less able to meet growing threats to our national security and to our public health and safety. that's why i would seek a seat on the senate armed services committee to restore our military and to stand up for our veterans. and i would also want to put forward these policies of mine that would create jobs, raise take-home pay, lift people out of poverty, hold down health care costs and reduce energy prices. my policies will ease the squeeze on hard-working virginians and make it easier for the unemployed to find work. we need that in virginia today. under the obama/warner policies for every net job created in

virginia, two people have gone onto food stamps. there are 65,000 more women living in poverty today. and 250,000 of us will have our health care plans canceled as a result of the affordable care act. obamacare. which the senator still supports. you know, understand these obama/warner policies, the federal government is going too many things that should be better left to the state and local governments and the private sector and failing at too many things that it should be doing right. my policies will make things better. thank you. >> senator warner, your two minutes. >> thank you, chuck. good to see you, ed. i'd like to thank all the virginians watching tonight. it's been the greatest honor of my life to serve virginia. first as governor and now as u.s. senator. what brought me to public service was the notion everybody in america ought to get a fair shot. we can't guarantee success, but you ought to get a fair shot. if we're going to maintain that

in our country, we've got to have people in politics that are willing to work together. that's what i did as your governor. with a 2-1 republican legislature, we turned a deficit into a surplus and virginia was named best managed state and the best state for business. i brought that same bipartisan approach to the senate. that's why i'm so proud to have the support of the gentleman who held this before mr. republican senator john warner. and i've got more former republican legislators representing me this campaign than when i first ran. i've tried to take on our debt and deficit. bringing jobs back to virginia and making sure young people aren't crushed by student debt. you know what? on every major piece of legislation i work on, i start with the republican partner. my opponent has a different approach. he spent his entire career as a d.c. lobbyist and a partisan political operative. he views every issue through

what's in the best interest of the republicans or democrats. matter of fact, he went on tv and called himself a partisan warrior. his words, not mine. i got to tell you. the last thing washington needs is another partisan warrior in either political party. in these challenging times, the world needs a strong american. economically, militarily, and morally. and to make that happen, america has to have leaders who can work together. thank you. >> and thank you, gentlemen, for both adhering to the time limits right at the beginning. let's start with the news of the last 24 hours that's impacted a lot of virginians here. i'll begin with you, mr. gillespie. it's to the supreme court's non-decision to review the case on gay marriage. it is legal in the commonwealth of virginia. you personally oppose gay marriage. can you accept this decision by the supreme court not to act? >> make a couple of points,

chuck. i love people and respect them for who they are. i believe we are all created in the image and likeness of god. and as you noted and my faith, marriage is between one woman and one man. i believe that. as a senator i believe it's the proper prerogative of the states to make these determinations. i do not support a federal policy in this regard. and the court has as you said ruled on this. it is the law in virginia today. and as i do not believe that a federal law is the proper approach, then of course i accept the ruling of the -- the decision by the supreme court not to take up this decision of the circuit court. >> senator warner, you get time to respond. >> on this issue, my opponent and i differ. i support marriage equality. i think it is appropriate that we live in a commonwealth that doesn't discriminate. it was something that i advocated as governor when i had

most diverse administrations in modern virginia history. and i think back at those times even back as early as the early 2000s when companies across virginia including capital one said we need to change these discriminatory practices against lbgt members of our community. so i think supreme court did the right thing. i think they'll have to ultimately take ts issue up. but again on this issue, my opponent and i have different opinions. >> do you want to respond? >> again, as a matter of policy in the united states senate while we disagree in terms of whether or not marriage should be between one man and one woman, in terms of the united states senator, it's not something that i believe is an appropriate federal response but should be left to the states. by the way, people should not be discriminated against in terms of job discrimination based on sexual orientation. that was my policy as an

employer in my three businesses that i ran. >> ten years ago you supported a federal constitutional amendment on marriage. do you still support that? >> well, it was the -- when i was chairman of the republican national committee it was the platform called for a federal marriage amendment. and as chairman of the rnc, i stood for the platform. >> but you personally don't support -- >> i'm talking now about my policies and the policies that i would pursue as a united states senator. while i believe marriage is between one man and one woman, i don't believe that it's the proper role of the united states senate to enact a federal marriage amendment. there are others who believe it is. i think it's the prerogative of the states. >> julie has the next question for senator warner. >> why did congress shirk its responsibility duties during force against isis. tim kaine had said, quote, you don't ask people to sacrifice their lives until the nation has debated to the mission. is he wrong about that?

>> no. i agree with senator kaine. i think congress should be called back into session and debate this issue thoroughly. i think i had strongly supported his leadership on this issue. i'm not sure i fully agree with the authorization of force that he has put forward, but that is part of the process that it be debated in front of the foreign relations committee, amendeding with and dealt with. i do believe on the committee that isil is a real threat to our country. this is an area where much to -- while my opponent will make charges of supporting obama on every policy, this is where i differ with the president. i believe we need a more forceful response against syria and iraq. i think it is very important that we also have been calling since early march for stronger actions against mr. putin in russia. there is very little that goes on in the world and the world is

dangerous. i will say the president i think has done two things on the issue that are important. one is he's pushed out the maliki government because it was important that if we were going to come in and be supportive in iraq, we've got to have a government that is inclusive of all actions. unfortunately the maliki government was supported by bush and obama policies. and he's building now the kind of coalition that includes arab and muslim nations as well as others because this needs to be a fight that's not just america. it needs to be the civilized world against these senators. >> thank you. mr. gillespie, you can respond. >> i agree with senator kaine. there should be congressional authorization for the air strikes in syria. and iraq. i believe that that would be in the best interest of our country. i think it would send a strong signal. if i were senator, i would support that. i think it would be a healthy debate to have on the floor of the united states senate. i think it's required by the constitution. and i believe it would send a

much stronger issue that it's committed to this effort. one of the concerns i have is i believe there are some fears the united states is not committed long-term to this effort and that causes consternation i believe among some of our potential allies. i also think we need to be stronger as a military. and unfortunately senator warner has voted to cut nearly a trillion dollars out of our million tear budget. we are now going to have a navy that is smaller than world war i levels and an army smaller than world war ii levels. we are on our way to 260 because of these defense cuts. that includes $486 billion in terms of the budget control act and then another $500 billion in sequestration. as a member of the senate armed services committee, i would seek to serve on that committee, i would work to replace those sequestration cuts to repeal them to make sure we are more secure as a country and we make our military the proper priority

it should be. >> senator warner, you can respond. we've had sequestration for some time now. >> i've been against sequestration since its onset. i called it stupidity on steroids. my opponent said he would not have voted for the budget control act that was supported by the majority of the delegation democrat and republican in virginia. john mccain the speaker. the alternative was defaulting on our nation's debt that could have thrown us into economic turmoil. but no one has been a stronger advocate against sequestration. matter of fact, i laid out -- again, unlike my opponent -- with specificity and took the left and right on this in terms of a comprehensive plan for tax reform that would have avoided sequestration. matter of fact, i voted for both the republican plan and the democratic plan that would have replaced sequestration. and frankly, i was proud to receive the navy's highest civilian honor, the public

citizen service award, because of my efforts to roll back sequestration. >> thank you. for both of you very quickly if you can answer this in 20 seconds, was the president right to rule out combat troops in this war against isis in syria? senator warner? >> i think he was not. i think he should not have ruled out -- >> you're open to it? >> listen, i think we have to leave all our military options open. i am not supporting at this moment of reiterating in a major way in iraq. but i don't believe you draw red lines. >> no, i don't believe he should take options off the table and signal to enemies what you're prepared to do or not prepared to do. nobody is recommending troops there right now and saying you're not taking it -- you know, you're not taking it off the table. it's not the same as saying we should insert them. but you should not take them off the table as an option. >> thank you, both. aaron has the next question. >> this question is to both of you. mr. gillespie you say senator

warner has voted 97% of the time for president obama's agenda. mr. gillespie you helped in the bush white house and -- can you name is specific example of you standing up to your party and senator the same question to you. specific example of standsing up to the party. >> there are differences i have with -- you know, again, when you're not in the white house, you know, my party doesn't have one thing to stand up to right now. but i will share with you some things i think i'm at odds with some members of my party. i believe that in the early '90s when congress passed mandatory minimum sentences in the u.s. congress, that we swung too far. and that i believe that we need to revisit those. and in particular for non violent offenders. and allow more discretion for judges and frankly more for the

states to make determinations in terms of what are the proper sentencing guidelines for these things. i think i went overboard in terms of federal sentencing, mandatory minimum sentences. i'm someone who believes in redemption and in reconciliation. i also believe that we need to look at the prospect of banning the box in terms of checking after you served your time and you have paid your price. in terms of time in prison for certain crimes and for certain jobs. you know, i don't think you should be required to check the box as a felon. i think if people have paid their debt to society, society needs to welcome them back into society and make it easier for them to come back into society. if, again, for certain crimes and for certain positions. >> i appreciate you asking that question. my opponent's whole campaign has been pretty much based on this bogus charge. the 97% charge.

i mean, independent political analysts have called it both misleading and not reflective of my record. the national journal which does a review of all the votes, not just a subsection ranks me right in the center. in your questionnaire where have i stood up against my party? let me go through a list. i support drilling off the coast of virginia as long as we get a share of the royalties. i support the keystone pipeline. i've actually been protested against because of that support. i stood up against the president on his foreign policy choices both around as we talked about with isil but also in terms of being stronger against putin in russia. start calling early in march for these kind of stronger opposition to his activities in ukraine and around europe. and it's that reason that virginians know my record. it's that reason why again in this campaign i'm so proud to have the support of more republican -- former republican

legislators than when i ran the first time. if that claim had merit, i don't think that would be the case. what it is, though, is the kind of political sound bite attack charge that comes from somebody who spent their career as a partisan option. >> mr. gillespie, you want to respond to the 97%? >> first of all the independent fact checker i don't always agree with. but politifact said it was true. secondly, he is party line. let's look at the keystone pipeline which he said he supports. yet on two occasions on the senate floor when there was an ability to move forward with the keystone pipeline, senator warner voted to block that from moving forward when there was an opportunity to lift the moratorium off drilling off our deep seacoast, a bipartisan amendment as there was bipartisan support for the

keystone pipeline, senator warner voted against it. former democratic senator from virginia jim webb voted with those while senator warner sided with his leadership. and the fact is one of the reasons he takes arrows from both sides is because he says one thing but then votes another way. >> let me follow up on this with both of you, because the fact of the matter is senator warner, you have these votes that are party line. why haven't you fought the party leadership and then question to you mr. gillespie, we haven't seen many republicans fight mitch mcconnell either. i mean, this is sort of -- the senate, are you all hostages of the leadership? are you not your own leader? >> what ed doesn't tell you is the analysis of those votes were mostly procedural votes. they're confirmation votes. he didn't say as well is when i voted against off shore drilling was because there was no proceeds coming back to

virginia. i've been very clear. if we're going off the coast of virginia, virginia ought to get the same kind of royalty stream that louisiana gets. absolutely consistent. on keystone, i believe we ought to wait until we have the science backing. when they came back and said let's build it, let's make sure we export this kind of oil as well as natural gas which would actually free up europe's dependence on russian oil and gas. these are all things i think we can make changes and strengthen america. >> mr. gillespie, how do you change the leadership strangle hold? >> first of all, i will have a simple test for every vote. will this ease the squeeze on virginians? if it doesn't, i won't vote for it. i don't care what any leader of any party says. if it doesn't ease the squeeze on working virginians, i won't vote for it. there are actual votes that make up this 97% statistics.

let's look at some of them. senator warner voted for the failed stimulus. trillion dollars in wasted money. he voted for the excessive regulations in the dodd-frank bill making it hard for small businesses to get capital and loans. he voted for $7 trillion in new debt and nearly $1 trillion new in tax increases. and of course last but not least he voted for the affordable care act, obamacare, after telling us he would never vote for anything making us lose our insurance if we wanted to keep it. >> let me pause it there. time to go to karen. >> that's a segue into this. senator warner, as mr. gillespie stated in his opening statement and t"the washington post" has reported, a million virginians will have to give up their health insurance policies as a result of the affordable care act. now, i realize your campaign has disputed the exact figure, but at a minimum, thousands and

thousands of virginians are going to have to give up their current health insurance policy in many cases policies they like. so what do you say to those virginians? >> karen, thank you. what i hear constantly from virginians is they want us to fix health care. the fact that 49 years ago when congress passed medicare, they didn't get it fully right at first. they had to come back and fix it. virginians want to keep part of the aca. they want to keep the fact people with the pre-existing conditions do get insurance. they want to make sure women are not charged more than men. they like we can keep kids on our policy until they're 26 years old. now, my opponent's charge and this figure of 250,000, actually the head of the association said that number was completely made up. and his attack has been called by the same politifact simply follows.

i think people ought to keep their health insurance. as a matter of fact, there is one to help have the same rights. i've gone further. i also say where else i would change the aca. i've laid out not with sound bites but specifics on a cheaper option. i've laid out specific legislation on how to roll back some of the regulatory overburden. i even said let's go ahead and put in place the ability for insurance companies as long as they are consumer protection to sell across state lines. we need to fix this problem, not simply relitigate it. >> mr. gillespie. >> now, the fact is that we can have reforms that address concerns about pre-existing conditions that make health care more affordable. i'm going to put forward a positive alternative of my own on friday and talk about refundable tax credits, for example.

but the 250,000 figure came out in a senate hearing in the state senate. and you don't have to go far in the commonwealth to find someone who has had their insurance canceled and lost their doctor as a result of senator warner's support for the affordable care act, obamacare. and one of those people is with me here tonight. linda from chesapeake i met about a month ago. she told me about her rare degenerative eye disease, going blind in her right eye. she has an eye care specialist that's important to her. and she found out her plan was canceled because of the affordable care act. she and her husband went online and found another plan that conformed to the affordable care act and got it even though it had higher deductibled and premiums. but it had this eye doctor in the plan, so they signed up for it. she went in for her next visit and they submitted the bill and the doctor is in the plan but they find out only for emergency services. not for chronic care. and linda and her husband are

now paying out of pocket and taking a huge hit. just like the woman i met in danville. she and her husband both work. she carries the insurance. she's just been notified that her health insurance premiums are going to go up $600 per month as a result of obamacare. >> time, senator warner any fix it bills? where are they? there are no votes on them? >> one of the things we need to do in the senate is have open votes and move on legislation. let's go to the question again, karen. the 250,000 number wasn't my question, it was actually the head of the insurance association. yes, it was cited by an election official, but the head of the insurance association said it was made up. and there are ways to fix that. other states have. for at least three years to keep on the individual policy. keep the plans you like.

we ought to do that in virginia. and again, it's in the general assembly right now. i hope ed would join me and lobby for it. but what i also hope to hear is ed has been promising his own health care plan since january. it's now 28 days before the election. we still have no plan, no details. i've laid out ways to fix obamacare, what we heard from my opponent is nothing. >> julie, next question. >> mr. gillespie at an earlier debate you said contraceptive pills should be offered without a prescription you put it behind the counter like sudafed. unlike sudafed, birth control pills aren't really one size fits all. some types can be dangerous to women with certain health conditions. i want to know which of the 24 brands of contraceptives should be available without prescription and why do you think that would be safe for women? >> that's not a determination i made. that's a determination that the american college of obstetricians and gynecologists has made.

and they're the ones who recommended that there is no longer a medically necessary reason for oral contraceptives, the pill, to be a prescription drug. and they should be available without prescription over the counter. my point was, i think for adult women, behind the counter would be the appropriate step. but they -- you know, having available without prescription would make the pill more affordable, accessible, easily attainable. it would bring the cost down. i'm not the one to determine what is the right ones, you know, to make over the counter versus prescription. that's for the fda and for the american college of obg/yns and others to recommend. but it seems to me that is something where we should be able to find bipartisan support. that would be something that women want, doctors recommend, pharmacists would like, and to me it makes a lot of sense and

it would remove this issue from politics and from these constitutional questions relative to religious liberty and religious freedom. i think that would be a good thing for the country as well as a good thing for women. >> senator warner. >> on this issue there are stark differences. in terms of who trusts women of virginia. what my opponent doesn't tell you, his plan which is used as a gimmick is that right now for women on birth control there's no copay. his plan or gimmick would actually charge on average same groups about $600 out of pocket for women who currently have no copayment. as well does nothing in other forms of birth control. that's because on this issue we've had a different approach. i trust women to make these decisions with their doctor. i don't think the government should interfere. my opponent shared the hobby

lobby decision which said private sector employers ought to decide what kind of health care women should get. he's been supported by the major anti-choice groups around the country. he wouldn't answer in the last debate about whether he wants to overturn roe v. wade. these groups clearly want to. and he's not spoken up at all in terms of the some of the -- his supporters who have put forth these invasive ultrasound legislation. who all of us particularly the business community said we don't like virginia being the subject of ridicule on late-night shows but yet he hasn't stood up and spoke out against that. so on this issue, again, i look forward to the women of virginia making their decision come november 4th. >> mr. gillespie. >> what's interesting is the reason that non-prescription birth control and other non-prescription drugs are not covered is because that is the rule in obamacare. that's the rule that you voted for that said that these

plans -- i understand. but my point is if you replaced obamacare with market-oriented reforms, people could purchase the insurance of their choice. many women would purchase plans that would cover over the counter non-prescription birth control pills. and talk about having faith in the women of virginia. i have faith in the women of virginia to make the determinations of what plan is best for them and their medical needs. not to have a set prescription in terms of what plans you can and cannot buy and we will tell you from the federal government what you can and cannot buy. and your response to improving the obamacare is to add a fourth plan that you will tell the women of virginia what they can and cannot buy. by the way, the women of virginia as i mentioned are seeing their premiums skyrocket and out of pocket expenses go up. >> we are going to hit the pause button here. put in a brief commercial break. probably paid for by the campaign.

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and we are back live here in mcclain, virginia, with the two candidates for the u.s. senate here in the commonwealth. senator warner, let me start with you. recent nbc/"wall street journal" poll found a majority of americans believing the political outcome won't change washington no matter if the democrats control the senate or if the republicans control the senate. as governor, you talked about all these bipartisan deals you

were able to establish. it is a near impossibility now it seems. number one, why is that? and why do you want another term if you haven't been able to be bipartisan? >> because i'm just not willing to accept the notion that somehow in america we can't fix the problem. my whole career in business and politics has been how you fix things. do i get frustrated with what's going on in congress? yes. i haven't found anybody that's part of the 8% that thinks congress is doing a good job. but what it requires is people who are willing to roll up their sleeves and get things done and be bipartisan. and i'm proud of my record there. again, i think the record speaks for itself. what we could do to change? well, one of the things there was a court decision today that said throughout virginia's congressional district we ought to be redistricting reform. that would be a giant step forward in terms of restoring faith. we ought to also get rid of our campaign finance rules which currently the citizens united

case which my opponent supports, i think the supreme court got it wrong. there was a superpac that supports me and one that supports him, we need to give up all outside money. i'd say last 28 days let's just have the race between me and you. >> do i get to spend $1.4 million like you did against me? >> you have a superpac, i have a superpac. we need to get rid of both. make this about us. let's get rid of the outside money. but at the end of the day you got to have folks that are willing to check their democrat and republican hats. we built a coalition on debt and deficit that's going to have to come back -- >> senator. mr. gillespie, to you accept the notion that washington's broken? >> i have to point out this is classic that let's not have any outside group spending money when your superpac has spent

$1.4 million attacking me. now we're going to call it quits? i haven't had a penny spent. but that doesn't matter. let me talk -- i just find it humorous. look, i believe we can get things done. and i -- one of the reasons i want to go to washington is because i do as i said in my opening statement, i want to see future generations and families to see the same blessings i have had in my family. my grandfather was an immigrant from ireland. he was a janitor. my father came here to this country, god rest his soul. 85 years ago today. today. and i got to grow up to be the counselor to the president of the united states of america. what a country. and we're losing that. most americans today don't believe we're a country where the next generation can do better than the generation before us. it can be our future with the right policies.

i believe if i can get there, i will fight for those things every day. i'll work across party lines. i have a very simple test. and i've shared with you what it is. and if democrats are for it, for bills that ease the squeeze on hard-working americans as well as hard-working virginians, i'll work with them. and i do agree with you, mark. he will open up the senate floor to amendments. that would be a healthy thing for the process. if we're in the majority, i will -- >> senator warner, you can get a response if you'd like on this one. >> what i didn't hear from my opponent in that response -- and i think ed's family has got a great story. i'm proud of my story as well. i'm proud of the stories that virginians can all tell in their own families of being able to overcome odds. it's why i'm sti in public service. because everybody ought to get that fair shot. but i also worry as well. and part of my worry is because we've got such partisan

gridlock. let's change the campaign rules so we don't have outside money. let's ends up freeing up the senate process. ed and i agree on that. but what is different is his whole career has been as a partisan political operative. he says elect me then i'm going to be bipartisan. for better or worse, you've got my record. you got my record as governor where we got things done. and go back and check my legislation. every piece i work on i spatart with a republican. the question about getting our balance sheet right is going to be front and better. we've got to go back to simpson bowles types to get it done. >> quick questions to you. harry reid is the best person to lead the senate democrats, yes or no? >> i think we could perhaps do better in both parties. >> i take that as a no. mr. gillespie, is mitch mcconnell the best candidate the republicans could have to lead

the senate majority if republicans win it? >> i suppose he's going to get re-elected and he's the current leader -- >> and you'll support him if you get elect snd so he's the best candidate? yes or no? >> i like mitch mcconnell. and i take him as hit word when he says he will open up the senate floor to amendments. that would be good for the process. there have been nine amendments by republicans and eight by republicans in the past two years. >> mr. gillespie, a moment ago you spoke passionate about about your own family's story as an example of the kind of opportunity this country has offered immigrants. back in april the attorney general of virginia declared that undocumented qualified immigrants who grew up in virginia, who graduated from high school in the commonwealth could qualify for in-state tuition in virginia. do you agree with this policy?

>> i understand it. it's a state policy. i'm running for the united states senate. in terms of the notion of granting amnesty to at a federal level for people who are here illegally, i think that needs to be hashed out through a legislative process. and i do not believe that we should confer citizenship on people who have -- who are here by virtue of breaking our laws. at the same time i don't believe we're going to deport 10 million to 12 million people. i think we should have a means by which we can issue fresh thesis to people who are here if they have not violated any other law besides the immigration law, if they pay back taxes, if they demonstrate self-sufficiency. but i believe we have to do this through the legislative process. i also believe, by the way, that that starts with securing our border. and the fact that we have a porous southern border today is not just an immigration concern.

it is a national security concern with the growing let of isis or isil. and it is a public health threat and a public safety threat with the growing concerns about ebola. and so i believe we need to center a legislative approach that begins with securing our borders. the things we do to keep people from coming here illegally will allow us to welcome people here legally. people like my father in a rational system. and then with visa reforms that address others, 40% of people here illegally are here by overstaying a visa. we can fix that. >> senator warner, you get time to respond. >> you know, i think we would agree our immigration system is broken. it needs to be fixed. the thing is the senate actually put together a bipartisan plan that would do that.

it took first that we've got to increase border security. it more than doubles border security. how we deal with the h 1-b vee sas. how we have the tech work thaers don't have to go home. they simply have to go to canada now for jobs because they fixed their immigration system. it took on guest workers. it took on as well the question on what to do with the undocumented. remarkable thing, this bill was supported by 68 senators. supported by business, labor, and faith groups. was it perfect? maybe not, but we got nothing back from the house. back when this bill was being debated, my opponent ed wrote and said this bill was both good policy and good politics.

now he said on the campaign trail he's against the senate immigration reform bill and i just wonder what's changed? >> nothing changed on my end. you know politifact looked at my position and said it had been consistent. i said at the time the senate bill was moving through that it needed tougher border security revisions. and we do need to secure our border. an amendment on the senate floor in 2009 would have it secured by december of 2010. 21 democrats voted for that amendment including former democratic senator from virginia jim webb. but that bipartisan amdment, senator warner voted with harry reid. against it. we also had just the vote last month in which there was a vote that said after the election because of what the president said in terms of taking unilateral action to confer,

make executive decisions as he's done in the past that there would not be funding for them to do that and to block the president from taking legislation to make any changes to immigration status. five democrats voted for that. it failed 50/50 and senator warner voted against it. >> would you have voted for the gang of 8 bill? >> i would not vote for that bill today. the gang of 8 bill is dead. and i think it is clear that we need to secure our border first. and there's no doubt about that. no policy is going to take place in the united states senate or the united states house without securing our border first. and when we had the opportunity to do that in 2009, senator warner voted against the amendment. >> i want to ask you, do you support the president acting unilaterally on immigration if there is no bill to you by the end of the jeyear? >> listen, i don't know what the

president is going to do. i'm not going to make a position on what the president which i don't know what he's going to do or is proposing to do. >> you know he's going to act on it. >> i think this is better solved legislatively. but let's go back to the question. ed says he's for immigration reform. that border security and the immigration bill more than doubled our current border security. it had this broad breadth of support. tonight he says he's not for comprehensive. >> both got an extra 30 on that which i thought you might want. aaron's got the next question. >> i think a lot of people here in this room know the economy in northern virginia humming along at this point. but in places like danville and lynchburg, the unemployment rate is noticeably higher than the statewide average right now. you've been either a governor or senator for much of the last decade in virginia. why haven't you been able to do more to close the divide between the economic and geographical haves and have nots in virginia?

>> aaron, one of the things i'm proud of is that virginia has actually consistently done better than national averages on unemploy. you know, there's nothing more important than having a job. in terms of for a family. terms of self-worth. everything in my career has been about creating jobs in the private sector. as governor again when we were recognized best managed state, best state for business. that's how you create jobs making a healthy business climate. and i actually -- there's been some good news recently in martinsville. they added manufacturing jobs at a faster rate than any other community. that's partially because we've had an explosive growth around energy. which i support. including coal. because we've got to make sure we can bring these manufacturing jobs back home. i've even got again, i hate to come back, bipartisan legislation that would provide incentives to bring jobs back home to america. and the way we're going to do that is having a tax code that supports it. but we'll also need to do more of what i did as governor where

i brought down a company that had a lot of presence here, cgi. when we brought close to 700 high-tech jobs to russell county in southwest virginia. because we put the incentives in and package together. now, if we're going to continue that, we've got to do a series of things. we've got to continue to expand broadband all across virginia. i've been supporting that. part of the agriculture bill to make sure they're going to serve areas. we've got to consolidate workforce training areas. again got some suggestions there. but job creation is key to moving things. i will match my record frankly on that not only against my opponent but -- >> mr. gillespie, you get 90 seconds on this. >> well, mark warner just talked about his time very extensively as governor warner. but governor warner wouldn't recognize senator warner today and the votes he has cast in washington for job killing policies. when you look at virginia right

now, our unemployment rate has been climbing. actually, it's climbed .7 of a percentage point over the past four months. and as i mentioned, since the senator took office, for every net job we've created here in the commonwealth, two virginians have gone on food stamps. i think we need to make it easier for people to get off food stamps and into good paying jobs. one of the worst things about the senator's policies when you look at obamacare, the regulations. and he has not opposed the epa rule from this administration which would result in a 50% of our coal fire plants to be closed in the commonwealth which would be more lost jobs. and also higher prices for our electric bills and prices of gas at the pump which has already doubled since the governor took office. i want to lift people out of poverty, hold down health care costs. and my agenda which starts with replacing obamacare has tax and

regulatory relief unleashing american energy would do those things. that's important. because we know there's not just economic value in labor. there is human dignity in work. and we need more of our fellow virginians to have that dignity. i will fight to make sure. >> senator warner, your response? very quickly. you four months ago said you were reviewing the epa rules. where are you on that? >> what i did was i joined with 51 senators and said let's extend the period to get the facts right. let's let the science dictate. what i differ from my opponent, though, and i'd like to get my full response in here. you know, on energy i'm for all of the above. including coal. including nuclear. including natural gas. but where we differ again is i recognize there's a serious problem around climate change. i'd like to take down and see

the are costing millions of dollars to raise the piers. he refuses to acknowledge that. on his energy policy he lobbied against fuel efficiency standards and was a lobbyist for enron. i'm not sure that's the approach that we need going forward. and i would simply add, let me add he listed off all these charges. his economic policies that he championed were two wars on a credit card, a tax cut that we couldn't afford, an entitlement program that wasn't paid for that drove our country into the fisal ditch. if that's your plan, i'm not sure the country can afford it. >> he brought up climate change. manmade? >> i believe there's ample evidence that supports there is climate change occurring and that man contributes to it. i also believe that closing a third to 50% of our coal fire plants with these rules, i can tell you right now i don't think we should close them. and if we do, we're going to

force more production to countries like china, india, and indonesia that have less stringent air quality standards than we do. if you care about clean air the last thing you want to do is push them to places like that. >> all right. time to both you guys. i've got about a three or four lightning round questions here. some yes or no. don't try to take more than 30 seconds. mr. gillespie, model supreme court justice. >> you know, i had the real privilege and honor to help guide through confirmation both chief justice roberts and justice alito. so i have -- i know them both personally and admire them both immensely. you know, i think they're very -- they do their jobs. >> not going to pick one, huh? >> it would be tough. like i said, i helped to get them both confirmed. >> senator warner, your model supreme court justice? >> on the current court? >> yes. >> i think justice ginsburg does

a good job. >> what's your philosophy when it comes? >> my philosophy is and i've had the opportunity to vote on supreme court nominees, i think you need to look at your judicial temperance, their ability to stay open, and i think that the opportunities i've had to vote on the nominees put forward i think met that criteria. >> all right. let me ask you what's -- this is for both of you. it's worded differently. senator warner, what is president obama's biggest shortcoming? and mr. gillespie, if you get elected what do you look forward to actually -- that president obama supports that you look forward to working with him on? senator, you first. >> well, i really differ greatly with the president on not pushing more to get our balance sheet in order. we're $17 trillion in debt. it goes up $3 billion a night. and the only way this is going to get solve sd if we have folks

willing to chuck their democrat and republican hats which i have done on this issue. and say we've got to do entitlement reform and tax reform. and i've been disappointed the president didn't take the simpson bowles plan. >> mr. gillespie what do you look forward to working with the president on? >> obviously we're in a very dangerous time and we face very serious threats. and i did serve as counselor to the president of the united states in a time of war. and i've been there in the oval office when the commander in chief has gotten reports of casualties and deaths with our brave men and women serving us in the field. and i would want to work with him to make sure that he is doing and gets the support he needs to prevail in the defeat of isis and isil. and, you know, frankly i pray for him in that regard. >> last question. 30 seconds to you both. mr. gillespie, what is the job of a u.s. senator? >> i believe the job of a u.s.

senator is to work every day -- in my estimation it's to work every day to pass and enact policies that makes sure we can keep the american dream alive. that we can make sure that future families and other generations can have the same blessings of liberty i've seen in my lifetime. and i think it's to be an effective advocate for the people in our case of our commonwealth. and as -- you know, i have been on the campaign trail and met so many virginians, i would fight every day for the people i've met along the trail. >> senator, what is the job description? >> i think it's to solve problems, to fix problems. that's what i've done in my business career. that's what i've done as governor. that's what i'm trying to do as senator. is it hard sometimes? amen. but i would never give into the kind of cynicism that says that america is not the greatest country in the world and that we can't still fix big problems. the difference between ed and i at our core is he sees the

problems through the lens of republican versus democrat. i see it through what to do to move america forward. >> all right. thank you so both of you. that concludes our questions. and now mr. gillespie, you have a one-minute closing statement followed by senator warner. >> thank you, chuck. thank you to the panel and thank you to everyone who's here today. it was a pleasure to talk about my ideas and my solutions. my common sense solutions that i believe would get bipartisan support on the floor of the united states senate and would help create jobs, raise take home pay, lift people out of poverty, and hold down health care costs and reduce energy prices. that's why i was so proud today to get the endorsement of the national federation of independent businesses, the champion of small businesses. and they believe my agenda is the one to create more opportunities for my fellow virginians. i'm getting a lot of support from virginians who frankly supported senator warner in 2008 because they see that he's not the senator he said he would be. and they're supporting me and they like my agenda.

and they realize that i will fight for -- to create jobs, raise take home pay, and lift people out of poverty. most americans today noonger believe we're raising a generation that can do better than the generation before. we need to do so. that's why i ask for votes on november 4th. >> senator warner. >> thank you, chuck. we've had a lot of negative attacks from ed tonight. i'm proud of the fact there's more former republican legislators and others across the business community supporting me this year. i'm actually an optimist about america. see, i've been blessed to live the american dream. i failed my first two businesses, but it didn't stop me from picking up and trying again. in business, in government, in my whole life i've tried to be a problem solver. too often these days we end up seeing the forces of negativism and political gridlock say no. i won't agree with it.

more than ever we need people in washington who are willing to roll up their sleeves and get things done. you know, america is the greatest country in the world. and we have to get back to the notion that in america that when we see a problem, we come together and fix it and then we move on to the next problem. that is the most quintessential aspect of america. if you rehire me, that's what i'll do. thank you. >> all right. go nats. that's good. thank you to the candidates, panelists with and fairfax chamber for hosting this debate. stay with news4 for continuing living beyond breast cancer is a lifeline for so many people. it is more than a community. it is a family. there's always a hug. you're friends for life. when i needed guidance, and i needed support, living beyond breast cancer was there. last year, 5-hour energy raised over $340,000 for living beyond breast cancer purchase a specially marked bottle now through december 31st... and a portion of the proceeds will help breast cancer

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