this sunday, a campaign in crisis. slipping poll numbers, a staff shakeup, and now a disastrous debate performance. does jeb bush have what it takes to win the republican nomination? >> i've got a back boep, i've got a heart and i've got brain. >> my sit-down with the one-time gop front-runner jeb bush. plus, the new speaker of the house paul ryan. he's got political capital. how will he use it? >> we've been bold on taxes but timid on policies and ideas. and changing course, first in afghanistan, now in syria. why president obama decided to send special ops forces into the syrian civil war. are we looking at mission creep? joining me for insight and analysis this sunday morning are matt bai of yahoo! news, helene

cooper of the "new york times," an gearann of the "new york times" and david brooks. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." good sunday morning. choose your metaphor. on life support, in critical condition, on its deathbed. whatever painful phrase you use, everyone agrees jeb bush's campaign is in trouble. bush needed a good debate performance on wednesday and he failed spectacularly. he's rebranding his campaign with a new slogan called "jeb can fix it." the phrase can suppose to mean that bush can fix the country's problems but people are already joking the "it" jeb needs to fix is his candidacy. that's the big question hanging over the bush campaign -- can jeb fix it? at this critical moment, i caught up with bush in miami yesterday and began with a question a lot of people are asking. do you still want to be president? >> i do. i do. i see great possibilities for

our country. i honestly belief we're on the verge of greatness. we have to fix big complex things and i have to leadership skills to do it. i'm fired up about that. that's what motivates me. >> do you understand why a bunch of supporters think you don't have the -- that there's something missing? the fire is missing? >> no, i don't. >> do you know why they think that? >> probably because they watch the cable shows and they read the polical press. but if they followed me on the campaign trail like last week in new hampshire where we had 300 people totally connected, totally believing in me i think they would see a different candidate. i've just got to be able to break through the clutter of all the punditry class. i think doing that. >> what happened at the debate? what happened in that moment? you made your point with senator rubio and you didn't fire back. >> well, i got cut off. that debate was a really weird debate. just because you didn't gate chance to continue on, i

literally got cut off by three of the -- all three of them saying "next question, next question." the basic point with marco isn't that he's not a good person or a gift l politician, everybody can see that. it's that i have proven leadership skills. i got to be governor of a state and accomplish big things and in this era of gridlock it's hard to break through and i think he's given up and i think that's the wrong thing to do. this is about public service, about solving problems. if you look at the three people on the stage from the united states senate, all three of them have a combined two bills that became law that they've sponsored. if you look at hillary clinton, in ten years, three bills she sponsored that became law. this is the gridlock that i'm running to try to break up. i can change the culture in washington. >> did you rewatch the debate? >> no. i've been busy campaigning. >> you don't feel as if -- you've said you're not a good debater, you want to be a better one. >> i do, absolutely. >> how do you do that? >> i know i have to get better

doing the debate and i am a grinder. when i see i'm not doing something well then i reset and get better. >> so tell me about the reset. >> well, i'm going to do what you have to do. this is not debating. whatever it's called is certainly not debating because i can complete a sentence in the english language pretty well and i have ideas that will lift people up. my focus and in the debate i will change the whole confere e conversation. someone asked me about fantasy football which was bizarre. i'll talk about the people that i neat have declining income. worried that their children will have more opportunities. i'm campaigning hard against people who truly believe their future is not bright and it breaks my heart because this extraordinary country has never been this way and if we fix how we tax and regulate, fix the broken systems that are all around us, this world will be a time of abundance so i'll change the conversation on my terms.

>> well, you know, a week ago you seemed extraordinarily frustrated and you're obviously frustrated now, frustrated with the punditry class. >> this is a -- look -- >> you went off, you said "i have plenty of cool things to do. i don't need this." >> that was completely taken out of context. i got a standing ovation in front of 500 people, not all of whom was my supporters. this was tim scott's deal. ask him. there was a real connection there. what i was saying was don't elect me if you want to maintain gridlock. it's not about me. it's not about the personalities on the stage, it's about fixing how we tax and regulate so that you can rise up. that's my mission. but don't vote for me if you think i'll be part of that system and because i think it's cool to be president. that's not what this is about. it's about public service. it's about fixing broken things that i know how to do and that's the story i've told. >> some of the things you said about this campaign this year

you said about the 2012 campaign. you said this in a speech after watching a couple of debates in 2012. "i used to be a conservative and i watch these debates and i'm wonding i don't think i've changed but it's troubling sometimes when people are appealing to people's fears and emotion rather than trying to get them to look over the horizon for a broader perspective and that's where we are." that was jeb bush in february 2012. sounds like you right now. the party hasn't changed? >> that's my speech in tampa. >> but this party hasn't changed? >> that's my speech in tampa. that's the speech i'm going to give on monday tomorrow to talk about how we need to be hopeful and optimistic, have an aspirational message. i don't think conservatives will win the presidency unless we campaign with our arms wide open. includingive. >> that message -- that's not the way dr. carson or donald trump or -- >> i don't know, dr. carson, you're right about trump for sure. dr. carson i think has a more hopeful message and others do as well and i just know that's how we're going to win.

that's who i am. it doesn't matter about anything else. i'm not a grievance candidate. we're on the verge of greatness but it will require leadership skills to fix things. that's my message. that's how i start mid-campaign in kendall where you grew up and that's what i'll do tomorrow in a speech in tampa and that will be the basis of my campaign for sure. >> do you understand why conservatives are skeptical of a guy named bush? >> yeah, sure. a lot of people are. i have to go earn it. this isn't done by -- like we say in miami by decree, you have to earn it. and all of the tribulations of a campaign -- and we're having our share, there's no doubt about it, i have enough self-awareness to know that this is the bumpy time of a campaign -- this pales by comparison to being commander-in-chief. i wear this because i think about what it is to be president. this was given to me by a mom of a marine killed in action in afghanistan. there's a lot tougher things you

have to do than debating in a -- going to nine debates in a republican primary. there's big things that presidents have to do. so this is the process. i totally understand it and i'm more than prepared to fight on. >> you did say something some may say is prescient. that you were willing to lose the primary to toe cus focus on general. >> i won't prey on people's fears and anxious, i'll offer solutions. we have a lot of candidates. i think the easy out is to say "follow me because i'm angry, too." that's not going to win the general election. it's important to understand people's frustrations, they're legitimate. but the only way we win is to draw people towards our cause and you can do that and be true to yourself. >> you even said working with democrats is unpopular in your party. >> how are we going to solve these problems? all the big issues in american history have been solved by a strong president working across

the aisle unifying the country. we now have a divider in chief who pushes people down that disagrees with him and i think hillary clinton the exact same thing. i thought it was striking -- >> you don't think your party has been divisive, too? >> no, it has. i admit that. but i'm looking at the democrats where hillary clinton says that her biggest enemies are republicans? that sets the stage for a really phenomenal time if she's elected. if 50% of the american people are her enemies. how can she lead? how can she solve problems? we need someone that believe hearse ideas are strong enough and powerful enough to convince people to join us. that's how ronald reagan did it. that's how great things happen in this country. we need to restore that for sure. >> some folks will say you're frustrated because, boy, a member of the bush family can't believe they're losing. >> no. i don't even think about that. i love my dad. i'd kill for him. i'd go to prison for him because i love him so much. thankfully i haven't had the need to do that.

>> he seems to be really upset about donald trump. >> he's -- i mean, he's -- my contribution to my dad's life is that he's gotten fired up again. kind of -- he's not watching "csi" he's watch -- >> he's watching a different reality show? >> he's watching the shows, as donald trump calls them, and enjoying getting back in the game. but i love my family but i have to earn it. i knew this was going to be hard. i knew it was going to be a challenge and it should be. >> 1996 you told larry king you didn't think bob dole should have litmus tests for cabinet appointments or judicial appointments, that one issue -- at the time referring to abortion. you said the conservative -- there's 100 things that make somebody a conservative, not just one issue. do you still believe that? no litmus test? >> i don't believe in litmus tests but i'll make sure my appointments to the supreme court would have a consistent proven record of judicial

restraint. >> so you won't ask a potential supreme court justice if they would overturn roe v. wade? >> no, but i would ask deep questions about judicial philosophy and then make sure that are the person had a proven record. i think the lessons of the last few years is that you've got to fight for your candidates that you nominate and they ought to have a clearer consistent record so that you have a higher assurance they won't wander off. >> you had said at the time that you didn't think there was a broad enough consensus to fight for a constitutional amendment against abortion. do you still feel that way? >> i think that what we ought to do is elect conservatives like myself and others that believe that life is a gift from god and life is precious. >> speaking of life, have you changed your mind on the death penalty? >> i'm conflicted. i am. it was the law of the land when i was governor and i faithfully dealt with it. to be honest with you, it is not a deterrent anymore because it's seldom used. it clogs up the court, it costs a ton of money. >> are you one of those that

look at the fiscal part of it and say maybe it makes more fiscal sense to not do it? >> here's the one thing and i just -- it's hard for me as a human being to sign the death warrant, to be honest with you. i'm informed by my faith in many things and this is one of them. i have to admit that i'm conflicted about this. but here's the deal, when you meet people -- this happens in rare cases where the death penalty is given out and you meet family members that have lost a loved one and it's still in their heart, it's etched in their soul and this is the way they get closure c i get more comfortable with it, to be honest with you. but we should reform it. if it's to be used as a deterrent, it has to be reformed. it can't take 25 years, that does no one any good. neither the victims nor the state is solving this problem with that kind of tangle jud judicial process. >> so you'restill in favor of it but -- >> i'm just saying, look, this is life, chuck. it's not all either or. sometimes you can see both sides

and i believe life is truly a gift from god and innocent life particularly should be protected at all costs for sure but people that commit these crimes, there should be -- justice can't be denied and it shouldn't be delayed and maybe there's a better try do this where victims feel as though they're being served because that should be front and center of the first obligation of the states. >> let me -- one quick follow-up on abortion. what exceptions are you comfortable with on abortion? >> just as it relates to -- my views haven't changed. i believe in exceptions of rape and insist and the life of the mother, of course. >> is there a line on health? what is that line on life and health of the mother? >> well, life of the mother, not health of the mother. >> last question, general stanley mcchrystal has a favorite interview question. "what would someone who doesn't like you say about you?"

>> probably that -- i think people in florida would have said it's my way or the highway. >> that comes up a lot. why are they wrong? or why did they get that impression? >> i fought. i fought for my believes. so some of that is true? >> it is true and at the end of it -- >> that's not a compromiser, though. >> huh? >> my way or the highway is not a compromise. >> well, i could reach. i had friends that supported me and at the ends i had a 67% approval rating when i left. this is a purple state as you know. half a million more democrats than republicans. i won double digit in my reelection. 60% of the hispanic vote because people respected me because i had a heart for them. i fought for my ideas. people knew i wasn't doing this because it was -- i was the big guy on the stage. they knew that i had a heart for people. i'm releasing a book on monday called "reply all" and it's the essence of the servant leadership i had in this state.

>> a lot to chew on there. the jeb bush campaign trying to reset and reannounce on monday. we have a lot to talk with the panel and that ey'll weigh in i just a moment. and later, paul ryan has the speakership now. speakership now. what does he plan to do with it? thank you for calling. speakership now. what does he plan to do with it? we'll be with you shortly. yeah right... xerox predictive analytics help companies provide a better and faster customer experience. hello mr. kent. can i rebook your flight? i'm here! customer care can work better.

with xerox. wait i'm here! mr. kent? (gasp) shark diving! xerox personalized employee portals help companies make benefits simple and accessible... from anywhere. hula dancing? cliff jumping! human resources can work better. with xerox. the artificial heart, this ielectric guitarsdoers, and rockets to the moon. it's the story of america- land of the doers. doin' it. did it. done. doers built this country. the dams and the railroads. ♪john henry was a steel drivin' man♪ hmm, catchy. they built the golden gates and the empire states. and all this doin' takes energy -no matter who's doin'. there's all kinds of doin' up in here. or what they're doin'. what the heck's he doin? energy got us here. and it's our job to make sure there's enough to keep doers doin' the stuff doers do... to keep us all doin' what we do. welcome back. the panel is here to talk about what we just heard from jeb bush. matt bai, helene cooper, the

pentagon correspondent fors the "new york times," ann gearan, the paper's lead reporter on the hillary clinton campaign and david brooks, columnist in for the "new york times." david, you wrote this on friday about jeb bush. "bush's problems are temptmental and thus most likely permanent. he would probably be a very effective president and he would have been a very effective candidate -- but in 1956. these are harsher times." did you hear anything that makes he knows these are harsher times? >> i say he doubled down on 1956. he's a nice guy. he's a good guy. he was reflective in that interview. he was a little humble for a presidential candidate, saying he was conflicted about the death penalty. you'd love to sit next to the guy in a plane or church but history has trained him to be a gentleman and this is a campaign where that there's a lot of alienation and disgust in the party and when he's on a big

surface with 10 other people or more, he doesn't shine. >> it's not as if the bush campaign doesn't want to play tough. look what they did with rubio. they've put out a power point about the different things on rubio. they said he news accomplishments, misuse of state party credit cards, no credible experience beyond government. so they're putting this out. i asked governor bush about what his campaign is doing and it was interesting to hear what he didn't say. your campaign, there was a leaked memo, 112-page memo and there was a big chunk about why marco rubio wouldn't be a good nominee and you went through sort of all of the opposition research on that. that's not a hopeful campaign tactic. >> i didn't see it. i'm focused -- >> it's your campaign. >> i didn't see. >> it you don't know this powerpoint? i read about it when it was leaked? >> is this something you want your campaign involved with?

>> i want them to focus on winning new hampshire, winning iowa, winning nevada. that's our first mission. >> an gearan, the introspective bush was politician bush. >> absolutely. and he can the that. i agree with the 1956 thing. he does seem like a candidate -- a man out of time but he also understands he has to be able to pivot and handle and at the moment he's trying and he didn't get it done in the debate but trying to pivot and attack his former protege and i mean he didn't land that blow and, you know, there's the old phrase in politics if you try to kill the king, you have to kill the king. marco rubio isn't the king but at the moment he's definitely on the assent and bush is on the decent. >> it was interesting to hear him say that about the decent aspect, when i asked "why didn't you strike back?"

he said "the moderators stopped me." he's playing by the rules. >> david makes a good point. i don't think jeb bush's core problem is temperamental. i think his core problem is that he hasn't given anybody a clear concise -- they're going on about his record and it should be painfully clear that nobody in the party cares, whether they should or not. the question is when you asked ask them what you're goal? what's your plan? that's a policy objective, not a rationale for running for president and i heard him in that interview i think grappling with that issue saying "i'm going reset, give people an idea of where i want to take this country." that would help him immensely. >> i'd like to step back because i think what's going on that's interesting is it's so accelerated. we're at a very crunch period. these are the two guys -- marco rubio and jeb bush -- who have the best shot of winning a general election. and this sort of this fight

wasn't supposed to happen for a couple of months, particularly if you're marco rubio. he feels like he's peaking too early. but that's what's interesting in what will go on in the next few weeks. this talk about it's time for him to retire his candidacy is premature but it's interesting to see whether these two men will be able to shed the rest of the field and move forward because this is -- if the republicans are going to have a shot at the general, these their two guys. so this is why you're seeing -- >> you say it so easily but what evidence is there that jeb is the most electable? >> i don't know that he is. he calls marco rubio the republican obama and i don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing because obama won 2tw elections. >> if i was him i would lead with his strength, "i'm boring. is our problem that we don't have too much boringness? no, we have too much craziness. i'll be your sedative. i'll be your laxative to calm

you down." >> that's going to trend on social media. >> "people scream at each other, i can't scream, fine." i like their slogan, "i can fix it." he ought to say that and be himself. >> when he said fix it i said remember bush post-new hampshire mccain and it became "reformer with results." there's a similarity to this. >> yeah. and the -- the campaign looks and feels very corporate, very bush like. the jeb can fix it sign was perfect. thetaging this week in new hampshire was perfect. he's got to live up to that. it may be an unfair thing to say that our candidates are supposed to be superheroes, right? and to your point his strength is to say, look, i can fix things and do stuff. i'm going to put my head down and do stuff and you should elect me. >> but fix stuff and do stuff is not a rationale, competence never works. >> that's mike dukakis.

>> a whole string of candidates. i also think we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves on the moment of jeb and rubio. the summer of trump, as it's been called, really blocked out introint introduction of these candidates. there are candidates who will get a longer look. i think chris christie gets a longer look. i think rubio is an impressive candidate and jeb bush could turn it around but i think that field is very dynamic. >> it feels to me like it's winding down cruz and rubio. cruz willnherit the disaffected down scaled voter, he's perfect but there's not enough of them to be what i presume to be rubio. those two are plausible. i thought cruz had an amazing debate moment when he attacked the press. that seems like the natural tension. i'm on my prayer rug saying "please, trump, carson, go away, go away. "so far they haven't.

but i'm assuming they will." >> well, what do they say about assume? donald trump has made us all feel that way. we'll be back in a moment with the new speaker of the house, paul ryan. >> if we don't like what's going on we owe it to the people of this nation, our constituents, a this nation, our constituents, a bold specific and clear agenda, when you're not confident your company's data is secure, the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at at&t we monitor our network traffic so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most.

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welcome back. a lot of people think that the one problem jeb bush has is that it's simply been too long since the last time he ran for office. that he's lost touch with the electorate of the 21st century so we decided to look at recent presidential nominees to see how long they waited between runs for office. look at this list of folks. michael dukakis, bill clinton, george w. bush and john kerry, all presidential nominees. they all ran for president just two years after winning reelection for either governor or senator. of course, bush and clinton went on to win the presidency, dukakis and kerry lost. now let's look at a group of nominees who waited four years between runs for office. it's a large group. eight candidates, all waited four years from their last election before being nominated for president. of this group, only reagan and obama proved to be presidential winners. let's move on to a much smaller group, the six-year crowd. two nominees, richard nixon in

'68 and jimmy carter in '76. waited six years between their last run for office and the nomination themselves. of course both of them went on to win the presidency. so where does jeb bush fall? remarkably by next year's election it will have been 14 years since jeb bush faced voters. his 2002 reelection in florida and perhaps that's the problem. the ground may have shifted beneath bush or, more specifically, it may have lurched to the right. something he isn't prepared for. in fact, the only recent other candidate we can find who wait it had same amount of time as jeb bush was connally, 14 years after being reelected as a democrat. he outraised everyone in the republican primary and famously won just one delegate. the only other candidate we could find that waited a decade between runs for office was jeb's four, george h.w. bush.

he waited ten years and lost the nomination to ronald reagan. coming up, my interview with the 40% of the streetlights in detroit, at one point, did not work. you had some blocks and you had major thoroughfares and corridors that were just totally pitch black. those things had to change. we wanted to restore our ghting system in the city. you can have the greatest dreams in the world, but unless you can finance those dreams, it doesn't happen. at the time that the bankruptcy filing was done, the public lighting authority had a hard time of finding a bank. citi did not run away from the table like some other bankers did. citi had the strength to help us go to the credit markets and raise the money. it's a brighter day in detroit. people can see better when they're out doing their tasks, young people are moving back in town, the kids are feeling safer while they walk to school. and folks are making investments and the community is moving forward. 40% of the lights were out, but they're not out for long.they're coming back.

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do be do be do. do do do be do. welcome back. at first he maintained he didn't want the job. but paul ryan was elected to replace john boehner in what is surely one of the toughest jobs in politics these days, speaker of the house of representatives. and ryan faces quite a challenge to fix what he called a broken house and try to unite a fractured republican party in washington. his job was made a little bit easier this week with the passing of a bipartisan budget deal that raises the debt ceiling through 2017 past the election and greatly lessens the chances of a government shutdown over that period. i sat down with speaker ryan in his new office on his first full day on the job to get his take on what his goals are. >> it's not a job i wanted. i liked where i was but i really felt like our party needed to unify and i talked with the members of our conference about

what i think a new speakership should look like. i don't think we can keep doing business the way we've been doing business and i think we have to be on offense and offer the country alternatives and that's what i intend to do with my conference. >> you right now have enormous political capital where jim clyburn talking about how he enjoyed working with with you on ways and means to plenty of people in the freedom caucus who are giving you a chance. are you going to use this political capital? it goes away fast in this town. >> about 35 minutes i'm told. >> what are you going to do with it? >> wipe the slate clean, start over, open up the sproesz. i see four things that i need -- that we need to focus on. get the house working like it was intended to work, like the founders intended it to work. open up the process. number two, it's very important that we do find common ground where we can find common ground to advance the nation's interests and do it in a way where we don't have to compromise principle. number three, we have to be a

more effective opposition party. we don't like the direction the country is headed. we don't like the direction the president is taking the country. and so we have to be an effective opposition party, but most importantly, number four, i think that means we have to be able a proposition party. we have to be the alternative party. if we don't like what's going on, we owe it to the people of this nation, to our constituents, a bold, specific and clear agenda, vision for how we would do things differently and that is what a good alternative party looks like. >> you're now the face of this so is this you that has to do this? you're in the middle of a presidential campaign. >> i see this as a joint effort. >> it's an awkward time. you're the face of the party -- for now. >> for a couple months. it's not a me thing. i didn't get elected dictator of the house, i got elected speaker of the house. we've been too timid on ideas. we've been bold on tactic but timid on ideas, on policies. that's where we need to go and this is what people are really

yearning for here in the republican conference. that's what i'm excited about. >> give me something you think you can do in the next six months. one issue. one piece of -- >> we can do more than just one thing. >> i understand but give me one thing the country will be impressed with that will -- somebody, maybe you work with the president, maybe you confront him. what is one big piece? >> working families are falling behind. the economy is stale. poverty -- the there are around 46 million people still living in poverty. our foreign policy is a disaster. we have to offer alternatives. obamacare. look at the the his saster that the rollout of obamacare is continuing to be. i think we owe the american people a very specific agenda for how we would do things on these issues. >> can donald trump lead a republican party to victory? >> as you know, i'm going to be completely neutral in this presidential election because i'm the speaker of the house. but if you're asking me can any one of those people who are on the stage be a better president than hillary clinton, the answer is yes.

>> is his rhetoric on immigration -- you told me you were in favor of a path to citizenship. >> i've written extensively about my views on immigration. i'm an open book on this subject. by the way, on immigration i don't think we can trust the president. >> you tried to -- >> the president has proven himself untrustworthy on this issue because he tried to unilaterally rewrite the law himself. presidents don't write laws, congress does, the president's proven himself to be untrustworthy on this issue. if we reach consensus on something like border enforcement, interior security, that's one thing but i do not believe we should advance comprehensive immigration legislation with a president who has proven himself untrustworthy on this issue. >> some conservatives believe that pledge only means you'll work with a democratic president in 2017 if that happens on immigration. >> i was elected speaker of the house to unify the republican conference, not disunify the republican conference. ma that means my job is to lead us to consensus and to, on big

controversial issues operate on that consensus and that's how i intend to serve as speaker. >> when it comes to one of the proposals in the presidential race, one of the candidates is saying that members of congress should have their pay docked if they miss votes. have they pair docked if they -- >> you're asking me to weigh into this fight about people running for senate. i'm not going to get into that stuff. >> but this is about how congress operates. >> i think what's happening here is people are trying to take cheap shots at people running for president and i'm not going to play that game. >> ted cruz wouldn't call you a true conservative. that bother you? >> not in the least. i've got thick skin. >> you said something interesting in your speech, a neglected minority will gum up the works, a respected minority will be fair minded. you think the democrats have been neglected by the house republicans? >> well, i think some republicans in congress feel they've been neglected as well so what i'm trying to say is we should open u the process so that everyone can participate. >> you were worried about taking this job because you wanted the spend more time with your

family. a lot of democrats, including elizabeth warren said "hey, that's great, how come you don't support paid family leave?" >> because i love my children and i want to be home on sundays and saturdays like most people doesn't mean i'm for taking money from hardworking taxpayers to create a brand new entitlement program. i think people in america would like to see their members of congress be like them. live among them. live in their hometowns. raise their families. be with their kids go. to volleyball and basketball, cub scouts and church. >> a lot of working supreme to work on weekends. >> i work on weekends, too. and i'll be working on saturdays like i do and sunday is our family day. that was the point. john is an empty nester and he traveled around the country most weekends not going loam. i live in jaynesville, wisconsin, i'm going to commute back and forth like most other members of congress from janesville, wisconsin. i can do this job. i can walk and chew gum at the same time. >> you're one of these members who sleeps in their office. can you do that as speaker?

>> i think so. i just work here, i don't live here. >> capitol police will be okay with you this is the capitol sleeping in the speaker's office? >> i start my day at 6:00 in the morning, i end at 11:00 at night. it's efficient by just staying right here. >> you're kind of a health nut, how will you get the smell of smokeout of the speaker's office? >> that's a good question. they have these ozone machines that you can detoxify the environment but i'm going to have to work on the carpeting in here. if you ever go to a hotel room or get a rental car that's been smoked in? that's what this smells like. >> speaker ryan, thank you, sir. >> thanks, john. >> there was honesty about the stench when you are in the speaker's quarters these days. john boehner is a well known chain smoker. coming up, much more on the politics and remember when the president said this right here on "meet the press" just over a year ago? >> the notion that the united states should be putting boots on the ground i think would be a profound mistake and i want to be very clear and very explicit about that. >> well, that's not the case

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the panel is back. david, we talked about jeb bush in 1956 but the other point we were making and we saw with paul ryan, as the republicans are having this fight amongst themselves as who they are, are they stumbling upon the generational change? >> it looks that way. you have to walk through the circus to get to the think tank. but if they wound up with rubio and ryan, they're attractive figures, normal, nice guys but they're generational, they're

yucker. that presents a problem for hillary but they get the problems of this century which means they're not going back to reagan let's cut taxes and say bad stuff about government. they understand as ryan said to you that working families are struggling even when growth is okay. so government has to do extra stuff to focus with wage subsidies and other things on working families. that's a real message for america today and a lot of republicans don't get that. >> i think in theory that makes sense but i worry whether the republican party which you were talking about has moved so far to the right that it's no longer the party that jeb bush used to belong to won't sit back and let rubio and ryan lead them. i think ryan will have a honeymoon period then be back in the thick of it with the freedom caucus like john boehner and marco rubio is about to have his moment the sunlight and i will be interested to see whether he can come out of that unscathed. >> there's still a part of this party that want this is

confrontation, that wants a little bit of fight and both rubio and ryan want to be optimists first. >> and they're big conciliators. i agree with david, we've interviewed -- you've talked to senator rubio, it's inspiring to hear him talk about the modern economy, the way forward. what i would caution against is the way we can sometimes project directions, ideologies, leadership on to young, less experienced politicians because they lend themselves to that. we saw this with president obama and a lot of us had thoughts about where he would go, how he would lead that didn't pan out for most of his term because i think actual reform, actually changing a party takes a tremendous amount of political courage and conviction. it doesn't happen just by having an idea of what future looks like and you have to display that courage and when you haven't governed and don't have that level of experience we don't know if you have the steel and the willingness for conflict it takes to get that done. >> the irony here, anne, we were talking about it before break,

sometimes the younger politicians who we think are fresh and new and talking about these new ideas, they're more risk averse. one misconception about barack obama, i think, from '08 to '09 is that he was a risk averse -- more risk averse than people realized. jeb bush of all -- he's the most fully formed individual, he might be the least risk averse. >> and i don't think we know very much about what marco rubio would really do, whoever the next president is going to be will inherit that. and rubio has said some things but not really given a full p n plan. i think ryan is not really risk averse. one of the interesting things he said to you was we have to be a good party on offense but we also have to be a party that proposes things. and he's got to be looking at 2016 when he says that and knowing that the democrats and knowing the republicans can paint republicans across the

board -- congressional republicans and republicans in the field -- as the party of no. >> you brought up syria, let's transition to the big announcement from president obama and i guess the question is, is it a big announcement? we're putting boots on the ground, not many, about 50 but that's a change from a promise the president made numerous times. take a look. >> in no event are we considering any kind of military action that would involve boots on the ground i will not put american boots on the ground in syria. the notion that the united states should be putting boots on the ground would be a profound mistake and and i want to be very clear and explicit. >> it's clear the president never wanted to do this. that's crystal clear. what are we doing? >> i get so frustrated when i hear them saying "no boots on the ground" but the reality is we've had boots on the ground before we announced this on friday.

we've sent in special operators, delta commandos to retrieve isis people to make targeted killings so the whole idea of no boots on the ground is absurd. he campaigned, his whole election in 2008 was based on we shouldn't be on the ground in iraq, he pulled forces home but he felt with syria -- the circumstances kind of forced his hand, particularly when moscow got involved and this becomes a one upmanship. but they look at this diplomatic track and this whole idea of john kerry coming to some sort of political solution with the russians and the iranians on a political solution for syria they believe if they can strengthen the moderate opposition groups, the kurds and the arab coalition, i think that's a big if -- >> but that's been a roll of the dice since the beginning. >> first of all they should wear

sneakers so we can get rid of the boots thing. i give him total credit. we've had a policy to withdraw from the middle east from afghanistan and the regional is falling apart. so will he say "i won't do the politically difficult thing. i'll stick by my word even though it's not working." >> but is he being too timid? like "i hate doing this. all right, here's fresh feet." >> but there will be mission creep when those 50 don't work and maybe we'll get a strategy. >> the creep has crept. this has already started as helene said. this isn't the first boot but 50 very quickly can become a lot more than 50 one thing they can do is be more effective coordinators on the ground for the u.s. air strikes. one of the frequent criticisms of the current strategy is we have an air strike policy but only two air strikes a week. so once you get some coordinators on the ground it

may changed. >> i asked governor bush and i asked him about the idea that we wouldn't have isis without the invasion of iraq, he rejected that. but listen to what he wants with syria. >> the better argument is the surge worked. a fragile iraq existed. had we kept 5,000 or 10,000 troop there is, had we engaged politically to show support to the central government, had we also showed support to the kurds and armed them directly that we would have a very different circumstance as it relates to isis. the caliphate was created after al qaeda was taken out by the heroic efforts led by men and women and petraeus. >> do we need a new surge in iraq? >> a different surge. we need to do what the president is tepidly moving towards which is to embed with the iraqi military. to provide support. >> matt, he's also in a different place than other candidatesen this. ted cruz and donald trump are

both in that more isolationist wing of saying the strong men kept that place in check, maybe we made a mistake. >> and the republican party is -- there's a historical divide between isolation and engagement. but what are historians of the empire going to make of this? >> historians of the empire? [ laughter ] >> eight years ago you had this campaign and george w. bush and the surge and iraq and barack obama campaigns against it and you flash forward eight years later you have jeb bush talking about a new surge, defending the legacy, you have to obama administration entwined in these wars. hillary clinton carrying the mantle on of this situation. it's an interplay of character, families and storylines, the upshot of which is we are entwined in a long-term ideological struggle and it's not going away. no president will get rid of it. won't can't just excise it from our foreign policy. >> and helene, quickly, with hillary clinton and whoever the nominee is if it ends up rubio or bush or somebody from that

wing of the party, both advocating more intervention. >> absolutely. at the end of the day, so is obama now. >> fair enough. we have a quick programming note. lester holt at "nbc nightly news" has a two part interview with president obama tomorrow on the "nbc nightly news." they'll talk about criminal justice reform and plenty on the news of the day. when we come back in 45 seconds, we have our end game. and this question -- which political leader went political leader went trick-or-treating last nig

- you can collect rainwater to shower with, but there are easier ways to go green. like taking shorter showers, which conserves water and lowers your bill. you'll sing long ballads in the rain and short ditties in the shower. ♪ the more you know end game time. the panel is here. we gotten a exclusive first look at bernie sanders first tv ad. he has a ton of money. here's a bit of a clip of it. >> in congress he stood up for working families and for principle, opposing the iraq war, supporting veterans. now he's taking on wall street and a corrupt political system. funded by over a million contributions, bernie sanders. husband, father, grandfather, an honest leader building a movement with you to give us a future to believe in. >> anne gearan, honest leader.

not too subtle there. >> not too subtle at all. but this is still in the very much in the mode of the classic upbeat biographical ad which candidates very often start with. it's interesting to me he's starting now. hillary clinton has been up on the air in iowa and new hampshire since august, she's spent well over $6 million so far and for much of that time her poll numbers were going down while his were going up. >> david, you talk to the sanders campaign and they say "we have one goal right now, we have to make people think he's not crazy. "they don't put it quite like that but he's normal, not a gadfly. >> i'd go with authenticity. i don't like the upbeat ad. it's so conventional. >> it's very conventional. >> "i'm a crochety old guy." that's worked for him so far. i don't think making him into george romney let alone mitt romney is going to work. [ laughter ] >> i agree with that but i think

the strength here is the weakness. my gut is a lot of people saw him in that first debate and he was an abstraction to them, just this guy. even if you saw him an arena with 10,000 people, he was a little speck, the anti-clinton and what they saw was a guy who seems older than her with a thick brooklyn accent who's angry and shouting and i think that didn't strike -- my gut is, i don't have the data -- it didn't strike people as presidential or not enabling him to continue on the force he's been. >> i don't know how to describe it, helene. it is -- it may have been the culmination of what happened in that ten-day period last week with biden getting out and hillary clinton getting -- doing the benghazi thing and that there's some air out of the sanders' balloon, just a bit. >> and he's worried about it because that ad shows -- the whole point seems to be to inject more gravitas. you're right, david. part of his appeal is his crochetiness but that only goes so far. once you're going up against the

juggernaut of the hillary clinton campaign, at some point he may have to shave that a bit. that's what you're seeing now. >> conventionality, i don't think that fits his candidacy at all. >> they've also got rattled this weekend when the clinton campaign went on a little bit of a sexist aspect of it when they said -- when she started talking about "women are told shouting." that seemed to unnerve sanders a bit on this. >> it did. and they started to come back at her and it was -- it's interesting that this is the issue on which we're starting to see the two campaigns begin to engage more directly. yes they've had a back-and-forth about guns, a substantive policy question but in terms of what kind of candidate will you be, what kind of leader will you be, they're starting to get into this. i don't know. i don't know whether it resonates when -- that much for clinton to accuse him of being -- trying to shut her down or being sexist in talking about

her raising her voice. the couple of times i've heard her try it out on the stump it hasn't really. >> is he a good enough foil for her, david, to make her a bert candidate? >> he's already done that. she's been so good the last couple weeks. but he took himself off the table when he took the e-mails off the table in my view. >> but he's trying with that honest line. that's clearly -- >> but he won't beater because they have a slight difference on economic policy. the only way that will happen is if the trustworthy issue is front and center. he took that off the table for all intents and purposes so i don't see how he comes back from that. >> it was halloween last night so i had way too much halloween candy. that is a fact. but we had a bunch of politicians, they had a little bit of fun last night. on friday president obama greeted some trick-or-treaters. here is a baby popemobile at the white house. that was good. check out paul ryan here. we're not sure what he was trying to say but he was the one that decided to dress as mitt

romney to go trick-or-treating in janesville last night. hillary clinton tweeted out this picture of her and a mini her, somebody trick-or-treating as hillary clinton. bernie sanders went out with his grandchildren. he claimed not to be wearing a costume. i guess you could say he was going out as larry david perhaps when he went trick-or-treating. to me the scariest thing last night had to be what happened to duke. [ laughter ] i'm not going to help myself. we, i believe, have a sped up version of the mir until durham that helped miami. can we get to -- appease me here. i knew helene wanted this. eight laterals, a rough week for the -- my beloved hurricanes. it was an amazing -- look at this. there it goes. >> that is beautiful. >> it was an amazing thing. it took them ten minutes to decide whether the call was real or not. if i'm a little sleepy this morning, it's because -- >> it took them ten minutes to get down the field. >> you know, but it was a rough week for miami. >> poor duke.

>> poor duke? >> i'm so sorry. >> people feel sorry for duke? because they don't win you have? >> are you kidding? do you know how much i hate duke? >> i won't get into a duke-bashing session. thank you all, we have a big week coming up, of course, first week of november. that's all we have for today. when we come back next week, we'll see you next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press." who can name the third president? and the largest planet? someone we haven't heard from.

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