their phones, tried to stay calm, but it wasn't easy. after all, a college residence is supposed to be safe. but now there might be a killer on the loose. >> we this sunday morning, what's the story or stories with ben carson? did he embellish tales about his violent youth and possible admission to west point? carson talks directly to nbc news. >> it's not time to spend every single day talking about something that happened 50 years ago. plus, countdown to election day t. is exactly one year away from today. voters are fed up with washington and yearning for outsiders. joining me this morning are all the outsiders, trump, sanders and fiorina. also, what we now know about why that russian plane crashed in egypt. we'll talk to the vice chair of the senate intelligence committee, dianne feinstein. and finally, look at who

hosted "huge snl last night. >> they don't have my talent, my money or especially my good looks. and joining me for insight and analysis this sunday morning are radio talk show host hue hewitt, msnbc's rachel maddow, gwenifill and mark caputo. welcome to sunday, it oes "meet the press". >> good sunday morning. well, exactly one year from today, we'll be hearing a lot of this music. ♪ ah, they're playing my tune. the nbc news election night music one year out. we can agree on this. american voters have lost faith in their elected officials and are looking for someone to restore trust in government. in a moment, i'll be joined by two candidates who represent the anti-politician mood of the country, donald trump and bernie sanders.

but first, another one of those candidates who has seized on republican voter frustration with politics as usual, and that's ben carson. but his rise in the polls is now clouded by allegations that he has been embellishing or potentially making up stories about his youth. my colleague chris jansing caught up with ben carson at jfk airport last night and asked him about these stories that include whether he was a violent teen, that he was offered a scholarship to west point after meeting with general william westmoreland and the first thing you'll hear about, a "wall street journal" story that questions his claim that he protected white students at his high school during those mlk riots in detroit. >> reporter: so what they said was that they contacted a number of people there, they talked to teachers there, that none of those people remember this happening. >> well, they don't remember the riot? >> reporter: everyone remembers the riot.

they don't remember the role you said you played to protect the white students. >> why would they know about that unless they were one of those students? >> reporter: so it doesn't surprise you that no one in any of these stories has come forward? >> well, maybe one of those students will come forward. i don't know. i'm just now hearing about it. maybe they're not spending all of their time reading the "wall street journal." >> reporter: general westmoreland we know now looking at his records he was not there when you said in your book -- >> i know he was in in detroit and there was a congressional medal of honor. it may not have been memorial day, but it was sometime during the time when i was the city executive officer. >> reporter: wouldn't the easiest way to defuse at least some of these questions is to ask your brother to come out and speak about this? you said it was your mother and brother who would knee about your democratemper. >> my mother has alzheimer's, my brother is it not interested in talk being to the media.

and a number of other people aren't either that i've talked to. >> reporter: vetting is a normal part of the process. did you not expect this? >> i have always said that i expect to be vetted. but being vetted and what is going on with me, you said this 30 years ago, you said this 20 years ago, this didn't exist, this didn't exist, i have not seen that with anyone else. if you could show me where that's happened with someone else, i will take that statement back. >> reporter: i think almost every person who has been president -- >> not like this, no. i have never seen this before. and many other people who are politically experienced tell me they've never seen it before either. >> reporter: you don't think that bill clinton or the president with his birth certificate, people who still -- >> no, not like this. >> reporter: -- refuse to believe -- >> not even close.

>> reporter: so why you? why? >> because i'm a threat. i'm a very big threat to the progressives in the country. because they can look at the polling data and see i'm the candidate that's most likely to beat hillary clinton. they see that. >> reporter: is this fun for you? >> would i have preferred to be doing something else? certainly. but it is important to me. and when i think about the sacrifices that were made by those who preceded us in order that we might have the freedom that we have now, it's the very least that i can do. >> there's more to chris' interview on our website meetthepressnbc.com including a question on his recollections on the class he took at yale. let me go over to donald trump. he joins my on phone just hours after hosting "saturday night live." so, without further ado, itlive from new york, it's sunday

morning with donald trump. welcome to "meet the press." >> good morning. >> do you think this matters what's going on here with dr. carson? >> i feel badly for ben. i've gotten to like ben. it's a tough thing. he writes a book where he went after his mother or wanted to hit his friend in the head with a hammer, hitting a friend hard in the face with a padlock, stabbing somebody only to be broken up by a belt buckle, which if you know belt buckles they turn and twist. i don't think they're going to stop a knife with the force of a strong man. and when he writes that he has pathological disease in a book, he obviously wrote this book prior to thinking about running for office, i assume. but he says he has pathological disease. >> so you don't believe him, do you? >> if you have pathological disease, that's a problem. i wrote it. i didn't write it. he's going to have to explain a lot of things away, the scholarship situation, the dinner with westmoreland when westmoreland wasn't there, the pyramids. you know, a pyramid is a solid structure essentially, a little area for the pharaoh. and you don't put grain in a pyramid because it's all solid.

>> you know, you've done a little -- >> they have large structural beams. >> you have done a little political trick. you have referenced every negative connotation you can pick up on on dr. carson. number one, you obviously believe he's a threat to your standing in the polls. number two, you believe these are pretty serious. >> well, i think everyone is a threat to me. i look at all of these people. i like a lot of them. i respect a lot of them. i think everybody is a threat. but nobody is going to be able to do the job i do. nobody is going to make america great again. nobody is going to take away jobs from china and bring them back to this country and many other places, india, japan. nobody will be able to do that. but i view in terms of the election -- i'm number one in the polls. i was number one as you know qualifying for the fox debate. i'm number one. i'm in the pole position, as they call it. but i think everybody is a threat. >> let me ask you something about your book that you said because i think in order to

restore trust with the american people i think you have to be putting out your plans, you've got to put it out on paper. you said this in your book "crippled america." they have been claiming i haven't put out enough specifics. there's a good reason for this and it fits perfectly with my overall philosophy of leadership. there are a lot of different voices and interests that have to be considered when working toward solutions. this involves getting people into a room and negotiating compromises until everyone walks out of that room on the same page. i think on the negotiating front, that's what a lot of americans want to see. in our own polling, they pick a president that they want to see compromise. but don't you owe it to republican primary voters to put your stances on paper, more of them, put your plans and details on paper? we know they might change. >> sure. >> but let's see it. show us your work. >> and i've done that. as you known i've come out with a tax plan, very detailed. i've come out with a plan for vets where we're going to make the vets happy and healthy. these are great people. we're going to take care of our vets.

>> but you haven't told us how you're going to make mexico pay for the wall. >> it's easy. we have a trade imbalance of $40 billion, $45 billion with mexico a year. we spend billions of dollars, we give mexico billions of dollars a year. the wall is going to cost $6 billion or $7 billion if i build it. >> so tariffs. >> if somebody else builds it, it will cost $20 billion. >> so tariffs. >> we can build a magnificent wall and spend $7 billion, not the numbers i'm hearing. and when you have a trade imbalance of $40 billion and $45 billion a year, when we give them billions of dollars, it's really easy to negotiate that deal, chuck. that i can tell you. the other politicians can't negotiate because they don't have a clue about negotiation. but it's really easy. we're losing 45 -- think of it, a trade imbalance of $40 million to $45 million, and that doesn't include the drugs that pour over into our country. that's exclusive of drugs, and the drugs are probably bigger than the numbers we're talking about. >> so you're saying tariffs are

going to pay for this. >> no. i think mexico -- i'll get mexico to pay for it one way or the other. i guarantee that. and i have great relationships with the mexican people. in nevada i won the poll with the hispanics. but the leaders are taking advantage of our leaders because our leaders are not smart people. they're incompetent frankly. >> quick question. a new book about george 41 says you called up lee atwater and said, vet me as vp. >> it's interesting because lee was a very good friend of mine, he was a terrific guy, died at a very young age. he came to me when i was quite young and he said, you know, you'd be a great vice president. i said, really? tell me about it. this is like the first time i ever thought in terms of -- i was building my empire, starting to build my empire, i was in the midst of it, i guess. frankly, lee said, you'd be great, and you should do it. i want to get back to you. and we talked about it on two occasions. but nothing ever came of it. >> quickly, on snl, there's always a line on these things. do you think -- some people question how serious you are about running for president.

does hosting "saturday night live" undermine how serious you are running for president? >> well, if you look, every politician -- not every but just about every politician has gone on "saturday night live." it's a very iconic thing. it's actually my second time hosting it. i did it 11 years ago. "the apprentice" was number one, and they asked me to do it. andi it. i had a great time doing it. hillary was on two weeks ago, and everybody was on. hosting it is a bigger deal than doing a single skit. but i had a fantastic time doing it. i think it's going to get tremendous ratings. i guess that's what they're saying already. you know, it was a big success for nbc. you should be extremely happy, chuck, because i think it was a very big success for nbc. i had a lot of fun. >> do you think you should have taken the protesters more seriously? i mean, that must bother you. >> no, not at all. you know, before the show, there were very few of them, a handful. i think there were more people protesting in favor of me than against. and before the show started, about 30 minutes before the show started, everybody left. you know why they left? because they went home to watch

it. they went home to watch "saturday night live." >> you were comfortable with larry david sort of mocking the protest? >> not only comfortable, it was sometng i had to agree to and i loved it. i thought it was great. i mean, larry got up and he said certain things, and i fully -- no. that was part of the script, i mean, in all fairness. it was funny and the place was roaring. i can tell you inside the studio they were roaring. we had a good time. it's not a question of -- you know, i'm doing great with the hispanics, chuck. i'm winning so many different areas with hispanics. i employ thousands of hispanics. i'm going to bring jobs back for hispanics. and we're going to win the hispanics. you watch. >> donald trump, i believe we have a face-to-face coming up soon. i know we're close to figuring it out. look forward to it. >> very good. thank you, chuck. let me move to the other side of the aisle, the democratic presidential candidate number two in the polls these days, independent senator from vermont, bernie sanders. welcome back to "meet the press." let me ask you about this ben carson stuff because you have

seen people leak out stuff you wrote 30 and 40 years ago. is this fair game? >> no. look, i listened to the interviews with dr. carson, and it's interesting. but you know what, chuck? the american people want to know why the middle class of this country is disappearing, why we have 47 million people living in poverty, why we have massive income and wealth inequality. when you look at dr. carson, to the best of my knowledge, this man does not believe that climate change is caused by human activity. this man wants to abolish medicare, impacting tens of millions of seniors, and this man wants to give huge tax breaks to the rich. i think it might be a better idea -- i know it's crazy, but maybe we focus on the issues impacting the american people and what candidates are saying rather than just spending so much time exploring their lives of 30 or 40 years ago.

and i think a lot of people are turned off to the political process is because we're not talking about the issues impacting real people. >> you know, you have been very consistent about this, and i think it's been a very admirable part of your campaign. in fact, you made it clear you didn't want to go after hillary clinton. let me play the many times you said that. >> i am not going to get into the media game, andrea, of attacking, making personal attacks against hillary clinton. i just am not going to do that. i don't think that's what the american people want. if i were to start viciously attacking hillary clinton, it would be all over the front pages of the paper. but i don't do that. i happen to respect and like hillary clinton so i don't get into personal attacks. you know that. >> senator, something seemed to change this week. a boston globe interview, you said, i disagree with hillary clinton on virtually everything. "wall street journal," you said, consistency of such issues does speak to the character of a

person. you spoke about the e-mails where you said at the debate you're tired of the damn e-mails you said let the investigation proceed impeded. are you backtracking here? do you want to target hillary clinton the person? >> not at all. chuck, this is exactly media stuff. my views on hillary clinton's e-mails are exactly what i said in the debate and right after the debate. the american people are sick and tired of seeing on the front pages e-mails. they want a real discussion on real issues. there is an investigation ongoing. i have nothing to do with it. that's that. but my views on that have not changed. in terms of disagreeing with hillary clinton, yeah, i do, on many, many issues. what i understand politics and elections to be about is to discuss differences of opinion. i intend to do that and do that vigorously. that does not mean that i'm making personal attacks against somebody i respect. i disagree with hillary clinton on whether or not we should break up the large financial institutions in this country. i don't have a super pac. she does have a super pac. we have many different points of

view, and i will discuss those vigorously. >> one of the things you've pointed out is consistency. you believe that matters. what's wrong with evolving on issues? what's wrong with that? >> there's nothing wrong. everybody evolves on issues. nothing wrong with that. but i think if you look at the important issues facing this country, going back to 2002, who made the analysis, who looked at what bush and cheney were saying on the war in iraq? it's one thing to evolve and say, well, i made a mistake. it's another thing to analyze the information and say, you know what? i think that war is a terrible mistake. in terms of trade, look, i'm glatd that in recent months hillary clinton has moved to my position on the keystone pipeline, on the transpacific partnership. she's now making a step forward on marijuana, not far enough in terms of getting the federal government seeing it as illegal. but what people want to know is, who has leadership? who was there in 1996 in terms of doma, the defense of marriage act?

so what i think the issue is, who is prepared under difficult circumstances, when it's not necessarily popular, to make decisions which are the right decisions rather than 20 years later say, well, you know, maybe i was wrong or maybe i got to rethink that. >> well, i had a lot more i want to discuss. we're compacted today. but senator sanders, always a pleasure to have you on, sir. be safe on the trail. thanks very much. >> okay. when we come back, the panel will be here to discuss all that we've heard from ben carson, trump and bernie sanders. trump and bernie sanders. wha i was ready to serve. i just gotten married. i was right out of school. my family's all military. you don't know what to expect. then suddenly you're there... in another world. i did my job. you do your best. i remember the faces... how everything mattered... so much more. my buddies... my country... everything... and everyone i loved... back home. ♪

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content that people want to see. it will help people connect to their passion of living real madrid. welcome back to our panelists, radio talk show host hugh hewitt whose show has become a necessary for republican candidates. rachel maddow who hosted a debate on friday, again ifill and mark caputo, nobody owns the political space in florida like mark with rubio and jeb bush so thanks for coming up. go canes. >> go canes. >> now we know what this is really about. >> exactly. hugh, let me start with what you heard from dr. carson. i think he's going to go g"the

media is being unfair route" does it work for him? >> to quote dr. kissinger, it has the additional benefit of being true. his objection to this week is there were four scandal bus two were reported. marco rubio does not have a scandal, hillary had her non-disclosure agreement revealed at the washington freebie con and reuters obtained a letter from the teneo group refusing to answer questions about hillary clinton. so there were four scandals, two real involving hillary clinton, one about ben carson, west point, not a scandal, heavily media and the one about marco rubio is all puff. >> why is it not important? >> i have no doubt someone at the rotc said to ben carson "we'll get you in." because it was common in the '70s and the '80s. >> but he's sort of a -- obviously he's a very distinguished retired surgeon. since retiring he's basically a

professional autobiography and that's what he does, he sells and sells and sells and sells his autobiography. there are a lot of things, the most dramatic things in his autobiography, all of which are favorable to him and helped sell himself as this amazing person who should be president cannot be corroborated including the factual statement that you cannot get a full scholarship. >> directed a missions are full scholarships. >> no pays. it's not like he got offered to west point and had to pay when other people would have to. that's the impression he gave. >> here's my question. if you get into yale and you are an rotc student, do you doubt someone came to him and said "you need to go to west point by directed a mitt." do you really doubt that happen? >> what i doubt is a person ought to be president on the basis of their autobiography when they sell that to the country as "i was offered a full scholarship to west point and i turned it down." you weren't offered a full scholarship to west point,

nobody gets a full scholarship to west point and if you're selling yourself, you're not telling it truthfully. >> gwen, you've been on the trail a long time over the years. personal stories. i go toesz me the danger for dr. carson is the fact that his candidacy is built on biography and honesty. >> it is built on saying this is who i am, these are my bootstraps and we all admire that. interesting thing about the outsiders we talk about so much is that they all seem surprised on what it takes to run for president. and what it takes is scrutiny. when dr. carson says there's never been scrutiny like directed at him, that's just not so. i think -- i mean, we were all there when bill clinton went through the whole thing with killing ben foster. with the airstrip in arkansas, still we're talking about barack obama's birth certificate years after he was president. there's always the scrutiny and each and every one of those

times those folks hated it. they complained. they felt like victims and of course this is the way dr. carson, who has great self-regard, as he deserves to because he accomplished -- >> his objection is the double standard. there is nda story, mrs. clinton is not being covered -- >> and clinton would say there was a report saying the two e-mails that were supposed to be classified were not classified and nobody covered that. >> mark -- >> i'd rather just watch them. >> i know, i know. [ laughter ] see why we put them next to each other? >> patented dynamic. >> the most fun is that they're so civil which is a reminder that that is what at least sunday mornings are about. mark, you had the marco rubio story that hugh just brought up and it does go to the -- the head scratcher there was it was like a non-issue but what took him so long. >> there's a few things that took them so long. rubio in 2010, first batch of his credit cards got released,

credit card statements to the republican party of florida were released on the behest of then-governor charlie crist running against him in the senate and they made the calculation that look, these are private statements and i'm just going to take the hit. years later they had the luxury of knowing that when he runs for president they'll have time to analyze his other statements and when they analyze those statements and put them together and pull the bank statements they realized, oh, my god, there's not much here. there's only $65,000 in spending over two years as the head of the florida house campaigns which is not a lot of money. so they made the calculation that we'll hold off until the appropriate time and let the donald trumps of the world say this is going to be a disaster. >> it was a setup. i think it was a setup. >> that's what i was going to ask. >> so you believe this was -- >> that was part of it. i think it's part of the marco rubio strategy. i put it in my story that i wrote. when you look at the hype that built it up and then you look at the expenses, you really have to go out of your way to make it look like a scandal. >> it's very smart.

>> david rivera, the former member of congress down there who was basically chased out via scandal. is that going to be less of a hit on him because of how this credit card thing went down? >> i wouldn't presume to say what will be a hit and what won't. marco will have to answer questions about his relationship with david because david has been in trouble but has been able to avoid indictment at the state and federal level. >> that's the part of this i wonder how much. there was interest calculation. i'm going to hit the pause button. we have so much to cover. we have the democrats. we have the bush family shakespearean drama going on there but we'll change lanes. after the break, the latest on the russian plane and why experts are increasingly convinced it was a bomb that took it down. dianne feinstein will be here, intel committee, she'll share what she knows. hello, ken jennings. i haven't seen you since that tv quiz show. hello, watson. you can see now? i can recognize people, analyze images and watch movies.

well i wrote a few books, did a speaking tour, i... i've been helping people plan for retirement. and i help doctors identify cancer treatments. is that all? i recently learned japanese... yeah, i was being sarcastic. i haven't learned sarcasm yet. i can help with that. start the interview with a firm handshake. ay,no! don't do that! try head & shoulders instant relief. it cools on contact, and also keeps you 100% flake free. try head & shoulders instant relief. for cooling relief in a snap. bei was organized.a, i on theo. for cooling relief in a snap. i was a doer. then the chronic, widespread pain drained my energy. my doctor and i agreed moving more helps ease fibromyalgia pain. she also prescribed lyrica. fibromyalgia is thought to be the result of overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves.

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okay... guys, i'll be writing a new language for machines so planes, trains, even hospitals can work better. oh! sorry, i was trying to put it away... got it on the cake. so you're going to work on a train? not on a train...on "trains"! you're not gonna develop stuff anymore? no i am... do you know what ge is? a memorial service has been taking place st. petersburg, russia, this morning for 224 victims of that russian plane crash. we don't know what the cause of the crash was yet in egypt's sinai peninsula. u.s. officials are increasingly convinced it was downed by a

bomb and attention is focusing on intercepts of chatter between an isis affiliate in the sinai and members of a group in syria. for the latest, i'm joined by the vice chair of the senate intelligence committee, dianne feinstein of california. senator, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. >> why are u.s. officials so convinced this was a bomb? >> well, i think it's an emerging story. i think first of all, you've got the flight data recorder and the voice recorder that record something that could be an explosion. secondly, it's the nature of isil, i think. isil is now in 12 countries. they do attack after attack. the forensics on the superstructure of the plane need to be done. i'm delighted to hear that the fbi will be going into the area and will participate and i believe we are sharing our information, intelligence information now. and this is a point i want to

make. it is my strong belief that the united states and our good allies should share information regarding terrorist attacks. we usually do this and it's important we do this. >> are you concerned we're not sharing with russia because of this rivalry? >> yes. my understanding is that we weren't for a while but i have now heard that we are. i hope that's true. >> do you believe this is a -- look, you've seen the intelligence. i know there's some things you can't share. but everything you've seen, you've seen this stuff in the past. do you believe it was a bomb? >> i think there's a strong probability it was. i can't say it's dead bang certain but there's a strong probability that it was. >> what does this mean? >> well, this means i think a very big thing for russia. this was a russian plane with russian people. major attack. russia is in the area. russia is at three bases, has

planes, has people. my hope is that russia will take a strong stance against isil and they are not now so doing. most of the attacks are directed toward the moderate opposition and i think the time has come for us also to begin to develop a joint strategy with russia. >> you hope this is a wakeup dual putin? >> i hope it's a wakeup call to putin and i hope to some extent it's a wakeup call to us. i have said before and i really believe it. we will fight them now or we will fight them later. it's only a question of time. and they're now in 12 countries. they've done 25 major attacks in these countries outside of syria and iraq in the last two years. this is a huge worldwide problem and we've got to play a major role, the russians should as well. >> if this was a bomb, it looks

like the assumption is it got on via airport workers, it didn't get on via the passengers. they seem to have cleared the passengers. the scary thing about this is do we have -- what do we do to screen airport workers in this country? the dea busts drug rings all the time. they've done a lot when it comes to airport workers smuggling drugs on planes. that tells you there's some security holes. >> well, this is a very complicated area and i think homeland security is doing as good a job as they can. they are now tightening security. the kinds of bombs vary. the one i'm most worried about is the one that there have been four attempts to bring into this country and that's the one that goes through a magnetometer. the bomb maker is still alive and that bomb is a recipe for which is easy to get and it is very serious. it can take down a plane. so we need to totally be on our

guard. we need to do those things that are prudent and direct and i think homeland security realizes that and we are toughening in those places which are important to toughen security in now. >> 14 months ago you said this about the president "i think i've learned one thing about this president and that is he's very cautious, maybe in this instance too cautious." that had to do with syria. he obviously has made an incremental step about what he wants to do with syria with the special forces. is it enough? >> no. the special forces are limited. i think 50. that won't do it. if we're really going to use special operations, quick in, quick out, you have to do in the a much more comprehensive way to get at isil. this isn't just one facility. it's not one building in raqqa or somewhere else. it's many different places. the other thing that seems to be emerging is the belief the bombing alone isn't going to do

it. we've had over 7,000 sorties. others have made sorties as well. we have made the majority of the sorties and that hasn't changed the dynamic. so i think we've got to look at those things which can be major in scope and this means put together a strategy with russia and move ahead. >> senator dianne feinstein, vice chair of the intel committee, let's see if they listen to your advice. >> yes, chuck, right. when we come back, why carly fiorina believes she does not fiorina believes she does not have to show any

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we've already heard from three of the main outsider candidates for president today. yesterday i caught up with another, the former ceo of hewlett-packard, carly fiorina, and asked her why she is one of just two candidates who have yet to release a detailed tax plan, or, frankly, any policy plan on her web site. here's her answer. >> well, let me disagree with the premise of your question. how often do politicians put out detailed plans? how often do they get enacted? never. that's the problem.

politicians put out detailed plans for all kinds of things, it never happens. but if you go to the carlyforpresident.com web site, you can ask a question and you will see me answering the question in public verbally. in other words, i am being held accountable. a plan -- anybody can write a plan. anybody can put a plan on a web site. it's another thing to say "you know what i think we need do" and be held accountable for this. i think we need go from a 73,000 page tax code, which is what we have today with 4,000 changes since 2001, we need to get it down to about three. and what that means is we need to close every loophole and lower every rate. >> well, show us what you're going to do. how do we trust -- >> that is what i'm going to do. >> show us your work. >> so in other words words on a piece of paper are more accountable than words said to people looking them in the eye? i don't think so. i don't think that's what voters think because i think voters

have gotten smart enough to know that plans and papers, 50-point plans 10-point plans, 5-point plans are win by a bunch of advisors and consultants. so i'm perfectly prepared to be held accountable for my words and plans and i would encourage your viewers to go on the web site and ask any question they want. >> so we shouldn't expect a tax plan out of you any time soon. >> i've given you a tax plan. i've given you a tax plan. it needs to be three pages and the only way to get there is to lower every rate and close every loophole. >> so that's the question for you guys. will voters accept candidates who do not put their ideas on who do not put their ideas on paper for us to

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meet the press is brought to you by lyrica. we are back. it is no secret that democratic candidates across the country have struggled at the polls since president obama took office. just how badly have democrats been performing? since 2009 democrats have lost a net of 13 senate seats and 69 house seats. let's put this in context. you have to go back to eisenhower to match this many losses for a party that controls the white house with senate seats. 13 of them. in the house it's been 100 years since a two-term president's party suffered worse losses.

that was wood droe wilson and the democrats. 99 house seats. the state level with president obama. under him democrats have lost control of 12 governorships. plus given up 30 state legislative chambers and over 900 state legislative seats. no administration since nixon/ford saw more governor and state legislative chamber losses in the president's own party. there was a reason for those losses. the watergate scandal. you have to go back to eisenhower again to find more losses of state legislatures over 1,000 back in the '50s. so what is going on here? why are democrats across the country getting wiped out in election after election? where obama name is on the ballad. democrats don't turn out if obama is not on the ballad. wasn't that long ago, 2002 they

won a bunch of governorships. something is wrong here and you can't just blame it on democrats don't show up. >> there's -- what's happening is that the democratic party is getting smoked by the republican party. they made a decision to invest long term in places where it makes an institutional difference whether or not you're there. the republican party didn't talk nationally but invested heavily in advance of the 2010 cycle in winning state legislative seats across the country. they flipped enough to flip legislatures to flip the congressional map. republicans are thinking that way. democrats aren't. >> no better example than the state of florida, a swing state nowhere near swing. >> right. and florida every identifies a lot of the problems. the big thing is the obama political machine and we're big data, it's a lie. the obama political machine without obama is no machine.

they don't win. that was largely a personality based campaign in two different cycles. i did witness at least in florida the obama machine for whatever it was it was good having its consultants come down and build democrats in various races and not win them. in addition to that they would not do much to help. so you also had in addition to that folks not liking barack obama very much. ifou were running for office you ran away from obama and obama's people didn't run towards you to help. >> it took republicans 40 years to recover basically from the double whammy of the eisenhower losses and the watergate losses. 40 years. they may win the white house five of the next six times just like the republicans. >> siberia is big. they keep nominating bad candidates. i want to pay rachel a compliment. ten days ago former secretary of

state clinton was on your show. this is the kind of faux pas that democrats make routinely bernie sanders talking to you and made a super pac add for every republican running for every office. they're not very good at running campaigns. >> let me go to speaking of rachel, let me play a few highlights from clinton, sanders and o'malley, let's take a look. >> i want us to use diplomacy which is why i spent 18 months putting together the sanctions against iran. however, i will not -- i think it's irresponsible to rule out force. >> to me, as opposed to maybe some other unnamed candidates, the issue of keystone was kind of a no-brainer. it never made sense to me from day one as to why you would extract and transport some of the dirtiest fuel on this planet. >> look, contrary to donald

trump's assertion the symbol of our country is not barbed wire fence. it is the statue of liberty. >> rachel you did a good job. >> thank you. >> i fell in love with the format. the idea which you engage back and forth with candidates for periods of time without them trying to break the rules, duck or change a question. >> by the way, we would do this with any republicans that want to do this. >> i would, too. >> yes. >> i think the one by one format if you care about if this is what everybody says about the policy stuff -- >> we can mix it up between parties where you alternate. >> we can do it one issue at a time. >> you learn interesting things. to listen to bernie sanders say i don't want to name the names of these people, of course, he's talking about hillary clinton. you listen to hillary clinton saying i don't want to answer your question. i prefer someone say i don't want to answer your question than pretend to answer something else. if we're going to run campaigns

based on personalities let's find out some more about their personalities and their true transparency. i think we don't find that out in one on one debates especially with ten people on stage. >> the confidence of hillary clinton today versus three weeks ago, it's unbelievable. the change. you can see it in bernie sanders. look at him. you know, he's getting anxious. >> he's going for it. >> he's try. >> he's more than 50 points behind in south carolina. she's got 80% support of democrats in south carolina. he knows where he needs to go. the problem is when hillary clinton tries to run out the clock, that's always a topic. >> it's like the plot twist in law and order. just when you think then it comes. >> pow. >> you both said there's one take-awii in the show that you haven't been able to shake and going back to the republican side of the race. >> ben carson saying when he was

interviewed where he says he has better things to do and it's very jeb bush where jeb said he had cool things to do and might not want to do this and these candidates are acting like oh i'm being dragged in this or my country and i'm going to go back to my plow now unless you love me. i just don't get that. >> you have got to watch what you say. you have got to have energy. donald trump put that word into the campaign. they have got energy. you got to want to serve. you can't be a martyr. >> listen to what we heard this morning from carly fiorina and marco rubio and ben carson. whenever they're questioned, they immediately say go to my website and give me money. ben carson sent an e-mail saying i'm under attack. send me money. i need your help. carly fiorina mentioned her website 85 times. i don't want to put statements or papers on it, but come watch me talk and maybeive money. certain consistency with these candidates.

>> you could have fell over. >> i was surprised. put it on paper. what's wrong with that? >> marco rubio put out a long piece on his defense strategy. very detailed. that's what you need to do. >> that's what he did with his tax plan, too. look, it's getting scrutinized and beaten up. >> on immigration. >> and he did it on taxes. >> yep. >> why can't she? >> we do have speech to text translation capabilitiecapabili. let's put it on carly letterhead and hold her to it. >> when we come back it's the one topic we haven't talked about in the end game segment. it is the shakespearen nature of the bush family. not only is the republican party not been able to figure out what to make of the george bush legacy, neither has the bush family. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. >> announcer: stay tuned for end - good journalism is about telling a story from more than one perspective. embracing diversity can enrich your story

by allowing you to see things from more than just one point of view. that's a story worth telling. the more you know.

we were going to alert the affiliates and saying "we're going lon" because it feels like we should go more than an hour but this last topic, we have a little time. there's more evidence that neither jeb bush nor the republican party has worked out how to deal with the lega georg w. bush's president. a new book by george h.w. bush unleashed stinging criticism on two of 43s top lieutenants. bush 41 not a happy camper about rumsfeld and dick cheney. on rumsfeld he said this "i think he served the president badly, i don't like what he did

and i think it hurt the president having his iron-ass view of everything." on cheney. "i don't know, he just became very hard line and very different from the dick cheney i knew and worked with. the reaction to the attacks on 9/11, what to do about the middle east" again he uses this phrase you can't get enough of "iron ass." [ laughter ] mark caputo, we were last week dealing with jeb bush trying to figure out how to outdistance himself from bush. from whatever -- all things bush. this could haven't come at a worse time for him. >> it gets even more awkward because this coming week we have the republican party is meeting for its annual or its presidential fund-raiser gathering. dick cheney's a featured speaker there. >> hay oh. >> and then jeb showing up. so great, getting the band back together one more time to be dysfunctional. >> but this feels like, hugh, the republican party doesn't know what to do with the bush leg. >> i a lot don't. the best moment jeb had in the

debate so far is when he said "my brother kept us safe." that's the best part of the bush legacy is that after 9/11 he did the hour of our grief speech, gave a state of the union on the axis of evil and the republican base wants that to be w's legacy. hw's comments about cheney and rumsfeld run into that head wind. most of the republicans i talked to admired the vice president a lot and there's not much upside in attacking them. >> what do we like the best? we like that these guys confirm that we suspect. we confirmed this is what h.w. was. we also confirm that if our parents ask about years later what we thought about what we did there may be criticism. i would love to be at their thanksgiving table and here how that conversation plays out. >> the personal part of this, reading meacham's book, the one thing that i was surprised to feel while reading it, i had an emotional reaction to it which was i can't really imagine the same nuclear family having a third go at the presidency. i mean, going through like all of this drama about one of our sons won his governor's race and

one of our sons lost, which state do we go to? >> i think you can get on it, george p. bush will run for president in the next few years. >> you brought this up with barbara bush. doesn't it make the "no more bushes" comment make more sense now? >> her comment. >> it was about her. i think she was exhausted. it's funny you say that. i got the same -- the patriarch and matriarch are exhausted? >> dynastic politics don't solve america and mrs. clinton has the same problem jeb bush has which is this is not something we do well or often in the united states since the adams. >> having been first lady is not the same as your dad calling your brother "quincy." you know what i'm saying? [ laughter ] it's not a dynasty when you're the same age. >> having bill clinton sitting on the sidelines was all of us waiting for him to say something, do something. >> but this is going to be that feel, mark, of the clinton presidency which is what does

bill really think? what does bill really think? >> i think to rachel's point about thanksgiving, jeb bush announced last time that he was probably going to go down this road of running for president after thanksgiving. this thanksgiving is going to be a big moment for the bush family because if jeb's poll numbers stay at 4% 50or 5% nationally a remain in the cellar in florida and new hampshire and iowa, i imagine that will be a really awkward thanksgiving. >> i so want an invitation. >> he never gets out though, right. >> h.w. in 1980 didn't get out of the race until may. we looked this up. these bushs are fighters. >> getting out of the race at thanksgiving is -- it was embarrassing, it would look like a loss. so is getting out of the race or march or april. if he's going to lose, he's going to lose. quitting now serves him -- >> that's a quitter. >> right. that's a quitter. getting beat is on next thanksgiving. >> i think it's important to

know that one of the reasons you have to think about florida is we don't have election day in florida, we have election days. we have a month of early voting. a good 50% is cast by absentee ballots. so when you go to the polls in south carolina, you'll have 30% of the votes in in florida so you want -- if you're going to drop out, if you don't do well in new hampshire, that might be the time. so there can be different benchmarks if bush's situation remains the same. >> i will say this, if there's popcorn involved it will be funnier than "saturday night live" was last night. >> wow. >> i had to get that in there. before we go, i think this might be the most vicious negative ad ever. >> ever. >> let me show it. >> the choice for governor couldn't be more clear. john bel edwards answered our country's called and served as a ranger there the 82nd air born division. or david vitter who answered a prostitute's call minutes after he skipped a vote honoring 28 soldiers who gave their lives in defense of our freedom.

david vitter chose prostitutes over patriots. now the choice is yours. >> whoa. >> hugh and glen have seen it. mark and rachel have not. >> i love louisiana. the best attack ad before this was out of louisiana four or five years ago which was a coroner's race where they actually acted out a or or movie where a coroner was accused of selling body parts with igor. >> i wanted to fact check it. they're saying he chose prostitutes after patriots not over. >> politico would give that a half true. i have to leave it there. that's all we have for today. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press."

it's monday, november 9th. republican candidates back in attack mode. donald trump scored big on "snl." >> they're great. they don't have my talent, my money, or especially my good looks him but you know what, they're not bad. >> why dozens of football players are refusing to play until the president of their university steps down. plus an act of bravery caught on camera him more than a dozen vehicles without warning. a solid debut. "early today" starts right now. good morning, happy monday. i'm betty