sure. paris police confirmed about an hour ago there was a shooting at a restaunt in downtown paris where several people were shot. another shooting reportedly playing out on livev and there was a bombing at a near bar close to a stadium and they could be working a hostage scene and chris lawrence at the live desk. >> we want to tell you about something going on right here effective to this. the nypdhas been monitoring events in paris and as a precaution, they are putting additional units deploying some units to some of the locations in new york like the french embassy and posts in new york landmarks, as well. they'll have an official statement cng out soon. we are now getting reports of hostages at a concert hall in france ande are learning there was an american metal band that was performing there tonight in another neighborhood that was near the soccer stadium and

there was a soccer match going on between france and germany. at least one, possibly more, explosions went off near there. french president francois hollande was rushed out of the stadium and he is meeting with a lot of his ministers and the interior ministry and expects to have more information coming very soon. look, there's been no definitive word yet about the coordination of these attacks or who could be behind them and a lot of this is still unfolding and right now we are getting reports of 18 people that are being killed in separate incidents and in and around paris and right now it's about 11:00 there. we'll stay on top of this story and bring you more as it happens. jim? chris, thank you. we are also following some breaking news close to home in our area. a stabbing near the entrance of the tinnily town metro station this evening. let's go live to jackie bensen in northwest d.c.

jackie? >> jim, police believe this was a disagreement between two people. it happened about oh, 45 minutes or so ago and closer to an hour, hour d a half at the tinnily to t tenley town metro station. he was taken to a cal hospital and conscious and breathing in the ambulance when he left. we understand that at this point that his injuries are not believed to be life threatening. this did shut down one side of the metro station for a while and people weren't allowed to access on the eastbound side and right behind us right now, metro transit police are taking down the tape and opening the station up again. one person in custody, a woman at the metro station she was in a motorized wheelchair in custody for a stabbing that happened here. live in northwest, jackie

bensen, news 4. all right. developing right now. a former university of maryland student has pled guilty to involunrymanslaughterr sucker punching a fellow student who then died more than a year later after that attack. our prince george's county bureau chief tracee wilkins is live with more on this unusual case. tracee? >> reporter a bad decision can impact the rest of your life. that's what happened to this university of maryland student and it just started outside of this bar and then spilled over into the street. now we're dealing with one university of maryland student who was dead and another one who ison.be snd something timin a former university of maryland student has pled guilt to involuntary manslaughter. today's plea comes after a year after another university of maryland student jeff godfrey suddenly died. it all started here two years ago, 2013. this surveillance video shows

godfrey unconscious on the ground and it takes his friends to pick him up and carry him away, this after harbor sucker punched godfrey. he was charged with second-degree assault and sentenced to ten days in jail wit $19,000 in restitution that he had to pay, but then a year after that, godfrey suddenly had a seizure and died, prompting these new manslaughter charges. the state is seeking a five-year sentence. he could have been sentenced up to ten years. >> we do understand that mr. parva did not intend to kill mr. godfrey and that was the result of mr. godfrey falling and hitting his head on the pavement and there needing to be accountability for that. >> reporter: he will be sentenced in april and that's six months away from now and the judge today had said he wanted to give him a chance to earn

more money and he didn't want to sentence him before tax season. i spoke with the mother of the victim. she said she is happy to see that there is some justice in this case. she started a non-profit in her son's name and they have a ranch they're running in california to work with children with disability ands that's how she wants her son to be remembered after this tragic accident. i'm tracee wilkins reporting live in college park. we're monitoring new information at local colleges that have students on alert. montgomery college has stepped up security in response to a threatening phone call that came in this afternoon there, and also the president of george mason university denouncing a racist drawing that appeared in a residence hall. this as students and faculty at howard university over the racist threats posted online this week. news 4's meagan fitzgerald is live at howard with the latest on plans to keep everyone safe.

meagan? >> reporter: and jim, we are told that the university president has been in meetings plans for security here on campus. in the meantime, we are to that security is still increased here. there's still a heavy presence ofoth campus police officers and mpd officers patrolling on campus and around the campus here. we are told that this is the first time that the university has ever experienced a threat er c this and its exposed a bicern about campus safety. if you ask students at howard, most say it's not a major concern and things changed after an anonymous online threat threatened to harm everyone on ca us. >> a ver alert and very aware. >> so are university leaders. after the fbi contacted president wayne frederick to inform him about the threat. security was instantly tightened and new conversation began since

this is the first time the university says they've ever been targeted. a spokesperson says aside from the constant police patrols on campus, president frederick is working with law enforcement officials to create a long-term safety plan. >> to take a stand and say that we're not afraid of these threats and we're not going to be intimidated. >> meanwhile, students led rallies on campus to show resilience and lend their voices to a conversation about racial intolerance on college campuses. >> students of all creeds and colors are deciding that wrong somewhere is wrong everywhere. >> that's why students say they'll continue to come together and focus getting their message heard. >> it has brought the student body together. we believe in unity. >> reporter: the university says forhose attending tomorrow's football game expect to see a heavy police presence there.

>> we'll tell you why universi leaders from all over the country have started calling howard and the instrumental role as the president here is planning to take as it relates to race relations on college campuses. >> live at the howard university, meagan fitzgerald, news 4. i'm chris lawrence back here at the live desk following the breaking news out of paris. we're getting more context as whatoing on there. french tv is now reporting that up to 60 hostages. 60 hostages that people may be holding up to 60 hostages inside the bataclan, that's the concert hall somewhat near the stadium where people heard some of these explosions going off. we are told that an american metal band had been playing tonight. in france it's a little after 11:00 at night. we are getting context about where this is all taking plae. the restaurant that was targeted is in the tenth a rindis montt.

france has been on edge since the islamist extremists attacked those offices earlier this year, three of the attackers were left dead. there's no confirmation yet whether the separate incidents areconneed, but ain, all of tm coming in a relatively short amount of time. police there in paris have been dispatched to multiple locations. french president francois hollande was in the stadium watching the soccer match between france and germany when these explosions went off. the stadium is about four miles away, but some of the reporters inside the stadium saying they could hear ttblas cut through the noise of the crowd. the president was rhed out of the stadium and he is meeting with several of his minister but again, an ongoing siation in which police are spread out across france looking at

separate incidents, but the latest we are heing, french tv are reportin 60 hostages being held at that nightclub. wendy? >> all right. chris lawrence. 6,000-year-old relics, some likely unearthed from ancient tombs smuggled dulles international airport and a man claims unearthing and recelling priceless possessions. scott macfarlane broke this story this afternoon and is here to show us how the man pulled it off. >> john bryan mcnamara wouldn't speak to news 4, but he said a lot to the jud in alexandria. he admitted to conspiring to artifacts uneahed in pakistan through dulles international airport. 1300 of them, at lsnt in late 2e acknowledged lying to the feds about it after they began asking questions. some of e relicsre between 6,000 and 500 years old, items typically found in ancie tombs

federal iestigators said. mcnamara owns has a series of artifacts including a fossil priced at a quarter of a million dollars. they wouldn't specify what haed from the duls airport shipment. with the help of a co-conspirator on the ground there and he admitted some of those items were found byting h. ande isleading customs ofcials lles. severalorencies and the epartment of homel secury had ised waings out thncientarts yi the u.s. one ofhe bie markets in theaw enfcementrh lcau i that dayp. >> what autuyers whoay have coughup mo for the ancit te. tthatnit at6:0 he wind igoing really

t chillys sun sets hour. >> g rea ekd. dougson thehanges aded yur way. 20omartinsburg a the wind blowing out and the sun has gone wn nd thatea we in foa cold night and 26rent miles per hour wind gus i washington an near30 in martinsbg and l continue to see the wind aif you're going out night thi y need e thinking about, take th gust miles per hour and d-40s by 8:00 tonight. i have the weekend forecas in >> tnk you, doug. > andhese are live pictures fr paris whe a ss ofuoldn the t hour. pele we have 60 pple helde inexplosions oside a stadium where socrameas going on etra fncnd ge4f

ve desk whre we continue to foll the eaking news in paris in thededecades. two police officials are now saying that at least 26 people

have been killed in shootings and explosions in and around central paris. u.s. homeland security department officials have been monitoring these attacks. they say there are no known credible tacksattacks with the d states and the french embassy in washington have now raised their security protocol to high alert. homeland security officials are in contact with their foreign counterparts and police officials in paris are now saying -- are confirming that a hostage taking situation is under way at the bataclan music hall. that's where an american rock band had been performing tonight. so again, we wantto say several incidents, shooting at a restaurant, two explosions near the stadium and another shooting at the bataclan concert hall where we believe that hosta are being taken. you're takinga i look there live now. that is the stadium where france

and germany were playing a friendly soccer match and you can see people hugging each other and looking up just bewildered and there was an a.p. reporter iside the stadium and even though it was several miles away from where we think the explosions occurred, they were so loud it cut through the noise of the crowd inside that stadium. french president francois hollande was at that soccer match and he w quickly rushed out of there and right now is said to be meeting with his cabinet officials and we'll stay on the story and bring you a updates. >> chs,'mt amazed that all of those people are still inside this stadium. and this is about an hour from where it all began. we know of three different cations andhe pximity of all three and thatne concert hall is pretty near or a bar is pretty near that stadium, is that right? >> exactly. i can only imagine that in a situation like that, if they have all been security swept to get in that stadium and you have a reasonabsumption that the

stadium itself is secure, if this is happening outside, they don't want all those people flooding out on to the street while officers are trying to move through that area and investate what's going on, and at this pnt being inside that stadium may be the safest place to be. >> good point. chris, on the life desk for us and we'll be checking back throughout this hour. thanks so much, chris. back close to home a ray of hope for hundreds of workers in our region who are afraid they'll lose their jobs. >> two safeway warehouses in prince george's county were set to ose next month and news 4's darcy spencer has learned that has now been delayed. >> the potential loss of the jobs and the insurance could be a death sentence for me. >> earl walton has been a truck driver for safeway for nearly 20 years, but he was facing losing that job december 5th, just weeks before christmas and he's 59 and a two-time cancer survivor.

>> it's complicated for me to be 59 years old, fast approaching retirement age with medical issues to go out and dined another job. >> reporter: in october several hundred employees were given 60 days' notice that their jobs at the warehouses in landover would go away. those warehouses are scheduled to be closed. they're owned by safeway. they're operated by collington services. their operations will be sent to pennsylvania. >> it is a terrible time of year to lay people offand we'veen thrilled to help them get through christmas. >> maryland senator anthony muse who is married to pat lawson muse as well as aisha braveboy have delayed the job losses and they're now scheduled to take effect february 14th. they will use the next couple o months to work out a plan to keep the jobs from leaving the county. >> it is unacceptable in light of the fact that they do lots of business and they haven't given a plan for why they have to do

this and they don't make concessions for those who are here and given 20, 30 years of their lives. >> so is this just delaying the inevitable or is there a chance of saving these jobs. l tell you what options are being considered to keep these jobs here in prince george's county coming up on news 4 at 6:00. back to you. i'm chris lawrence back at the live desk where we continue to look at the breaking news happening inside paris where police officials are investigating multiple incidents that have left at least 26 people dead. today we just heard that the british prime minister has released a statement saying i am shocked by the events in paris tonight. our thoughts and prayers are with the french people and we will do whatever we can to help. we already know that u.s. homeland security department officials are in contact with their french counterparts and are monitoring what's going on there. you're takinga i live look inside the stadium.

that's where france and germany were inside playing a soccer match when a lot of people in that stadium heard one, possibly two large explosions. that's when they rushed the french president out of there. you can see a lot of people, thousands of people stil in that stadium because police are concentrated in the central area of paris trying to make sense and investigate three separate incidents. we'll stay on top of this story and be right back. [ female announcer ] business travel isn't just about the going.

it's also about the going home. and being connected all along the way. whether you're working or recharging, do business travel on your terms. acela. take off.

continue to follow the worst terrorist attack in paris in decades and we have new information to bring you now. a police official is now confirming that at least 35 people have been killed in separate incidents and around 100 hostages have been taken at that paris concert halltting so context as towhat happened in those explosions. witnesses are now sayingthey occuedbo five oten minute apart in the first h he footbl match. the send bla s ldan theirst. detyys 15 peopl were killed in just e attack alone and now u.s. security officials think these atks were aoordinated attack. this sto and b youon topf

>> ts is a sto team 4 chillyight tonight as myourin way outnd the sun down it will cool fairly quickly. out there we have the wind coming in and gusting upward of 25 to 30 miles per hour and many of you down into the low 50s and that puts the windchill into the 40s. if you're heing out tonight,ndl. you'll need the jackets and 54 degrees at 7:00 and 49 by 11:00 and the windchill by 11:00 will barnd 38 degrees and a very cold night in store as we move on to tonight and right on through tomorrow and storm team 4 radar nothing in store for the region and we'ven th sm st through. we ha lake-effect snows back toward the great lakes, but for us nothing going on in our area, clear skies tonight that will allow temperatures to cool. tomorrow windy and chilly. dress warm, dress the kids warm and if they've got the soccer games and even some games 7:00 a.m. and the

windchill could be 25, 36 and a very cool start to the day and hig temperature tomorrow only into the low 50sand feel more like the low to mid 40s all day long and we are talking windchill during the day tomorrow and that's why she has the right idea and it's t gloves, ha andthe scarves a whatever youcanear tomorw tomorrow night. tomorro should be a cold g 53 i and 53, 53 la pua and it will feel 38 to 45 degrees and the wind will be a big factor and to 30 miles an hour and we t temperatures will have a big impact on your day and a moderate on saturday. 38 in the city and we get 60 in the afternoon and sunday afternoon looking good. veronica is back in a few

nutes and she has the rest of theserve-day forecast. we have a death toll rising, 35 people at least are dead in these attacks that have unfolded in paris and 100 hostages still being held here this evening. chris lawrence ist the live desk a concert hall with an american band. this oncert, a bar near a stadium and two ion whatre you hearing now? >> this is the bataclan concert hall and there was an american rock band, the eagles of death metal. they were playing there tonight and we are now hearing that around 100 hostages have been taken at that theater and there are multiple fatalitieshere.

where a flurry of violence erupted about an hour ago. we have a hundred hostages 30ead t cnt so far. paris is reeling from these coordinated attacks. three attacks in central paris. let's get the latest from chris lawrence at the live desk. >> weny, what we are hearing is there's been no claim of responsibility yet forhese attack,but isis supporters are praising the attack on social media with a #parisinflames. we now learned th ed thaed that obama has been fully briefed on what's been going on and we know

that u.s. homeland security officials are in contact with their counterparts in paris. the latest number woos s we hav you are 35 people have been killed in separate incidents. there was a shooting at a restaurant as well as a concert hall. they are very close to each other in central paris. the explosions heard outside that stadium are about four miles north of there. we are also hearing from some of the witnesses that have been seen some of this develop or near the restaurant when it happened. they are reporting that they heard upwards of a hundred rounds fired at one of these restaurants and we know from the deputy mayor of paris that at least 15 people were killed in one attack alone. >> you know, chris -- >> sorry. go ahead. >> chris, in that restaurant when it was first unfolding witnesses were saying to diner around 10:00 at night in paris and that people were dining. it's a friday night and that the

gunmen just stood up and opened fire like the gunmen were among the diners and just stood up and opened fire. are you hearing more about that? >> this sort of squares from what we're hearing with u.s. officials because they are saying that they now believe that this was a coordinated attack. we're also hearing from some other witnesses that this was a handgun and more of a nikov-style firem th the gunmen used to kill these people, and so at sort squares with what we're hearing that this seems to be now a coordinated attack in paris. >> and is there a fear righ now, here we areoming up about 11: at night paris time. is there a fear that there could be more to come?re people being shelter in place? do we know? we saw thestium people staying in that stadium about ten minutes ago. >> reporter: nway to know that for sure. we know that the two explosions that people heard near that

stadium came about five or ten minute apart and that all of this unfolded in a relatively short amount of time. at the same time, if this is a ordited attacke've seen instance in the st where one atck has been staged and people rush in to try to help the victims and respondnd then another attack goeswell. hether that's the case here we do not know, but we know that french officials are looking at three separate incidents around -- in and around paris right now. >> chris, this was happening in the tenth arrondissement which is a very top lar place and it's near the place derepublique and a lot of clubs and it struck at the heart of the place where th knew there would be an awful lot of people and young people out there tonight. >> you are exactly right. this is a very popular restaurant. it's also near offices where

charlie hebdo that obviously was attacked earlier this year along with the kosr grocery store. france has been on the highest securty alert since those attacks and this is the same general neighborhood as tht. the stadium and the explosions, probably a few miles away. >> chris, no word yet on the wires that we're getting, but to put sometng perhaps in perspective, we've been hearing all day today about the death of jihadi john by a drone strike and one has to wonder if there is any correlation here between these attacks in france tonight? >> reporter: you know, you would have to at least look into that possibility. u.s. officials earlier today confirming that they are relatively certain that they killed jihadi john, muhammad emwazi. they say that drone strike did destroy the vehicle, the target and the vehicle that they were targeting. everyone in that vehicle was killed. they think that jihadi john was in that vehicle and are relatively certain of it.

this comes literally hours after u.s. officials make that -- make that announcement, but again, if this was a coordinated attack you would think that this is something that had been in the works for some time now to pull off multiple explosions as well as shootings in three separate locations all within a very short amount of time suggest that there was se pre-planning that went into thisattack. >> so far, claim of responsibilit chrislawrence,thanks smuchlive back close to home right now. we are learning me about he young man whose body was found on monday at an alexandria his mother and five younger siblings live blocks from that carey from the scene of the crime with what she learned today. jul? >> t victis name is luis perez and before monday his mom had fond memories of a time when

she and her oldest son took two of hiser young siblings to play, but on monday the victim's body was found under a piece of plgrndquip anment his throat cut and now his mother is hopeful that police will find his killer soon. >> the beverly park pygrond better known as the pit, was once again buzzing with children today. it's a sharp contrast to monday when crime scene tape, as police gathered at a murder. this is the memorial created by the family of 24-year-old lu perez. as the oldest son, his mothe f counted on him for financial help and support. through a translator his mother m milagros. >> translator: im a sing moer, and i always foughtfos ane

with me and we had plans for the ture, and no -- said that he would always be there for me and now that's qdy >> repter: no arrests have been made yet in this case. 6:0r s to say about who might have killed her son. reporting live frome rey, news as we go to break we want to leave you with the paris. a three-pronged attack unfolding there. at least 35 people dead, 100 hosge bataclan concert hall where an american band wlaying toght. wee rit ba. @ díéf

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good evening from new york. we continue to follow the attacks in paris where there have been shootings, explosions and the w a report on french r of it as many as 60 people have been killed and there are also reports of an ongoing hostage situation and a concert hall and perhaps as many as 100 held hostage there and we're expecting to hear from president obama in just a few minutes and before we go to the white house for his statement let's go to kelly cobiella monitoring tis from our london buau. >> lester, we undetand this arted abo two and a half apptlo p sted oong

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the siios unin chosen not to ca president hollande at this time because my expectation is that he is veryusyat the ent. incio meeting, but i am confident that i'll be in direct communications with him in the next few days and we'll be coordinating in any ways that they think are helpful in the investigation of what's happened. this is a heartbreaking situation and obviously those of us here in the united states know what it's like. we've gone through these kinds of episodes ourselves, and whenever these kinds of attacks happened, we've always been able to count on the french people to stawith us. they've been an extraordinary counterterrorism partner and we

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his plans would change and he didn't want to answer that at this point because events are unfolding, but clearly global terrorism will be an issue on that agenda and now much higher on that agenda, the event would happen a few hundred miles from the syrian border in a turkish mediterranean town. here the president is monitoring the situation and he's been in touch with his advisers. earlier today there was a meeting with former national security experts and former secretaries of state and the issue there was the president's trade initiative and the trade partnership which he is trying to push on this trip, as well and certainly the issue of isis and the attack earlier announced earlier today on jihad john and the other developments there in iraq and syria no doubt on the, agenda. the president trying to get as much input and information as he can probably, but here events

are still unfolding and we'll see what comes next. >> ron allen, thanks. let's go back to kelly cobiella. she's been monitoring reports out of france. that last casualty figure we heard of 60 dead is coming from french television, kr ekt? >> that is from bfmtv a paris media outlet and they're reporting 60 de, a fourth shopping mall in central paris. that number has not been confirmed by frenchauthorities. in fac therench police number is slightly lower at 35 dead, but still extraordinary including that hostage situation still ongoing at the paris theater, the bataclan where an american rock band was playing tonight. we don't how many gunmen may be inside or how many hostages may be held.

we have numbers anywhere from 60 to 100 inside that theater and others who were killed in the initial attacks. reports of at least 15 killed in the initial attacks, and the details are changing almost by the moment and still no firm information on the attack which has happened now in central paris at le salle. this followed the trauma of the office of charlie hebdo newspaper and the terror that followed there. this city, paris, no stranger to this kind of terror, but certainly never in recent history on this scale. no one is officially connecting the dots, but let's put it in perspective. all of this comes after two weeks after the bombing of a russian plane over egypt, possibly by isis and that's still being investigated and of course, yesterday's twin suicide bombings in beirut. isis claiming responsibility for

that, and it comes just the nights after the u.s. took out the jihadist known as jihadi john, the infamous isis executioner. he was taken out by a u.s. drone yesterday. no one officially connecting the dots. and certainly to give you the environment in the middle east and we've seen these sorts of things play out in france before. again, as we had noted the president making the statement a short time ago acknowledging he does not have a lot of specific information from france. they obviously have their hands filled at this moment. the hostage taking and trying to get a handle of where and when all of this stopped. this is still breaking as we're on the air. these are the pictures coming in from different parts of paris right now of the security services now scrambling to different locations and sealing different areas off. the first two attacks were in the 10th and 11th and -- forgive

my pronunciation in the districts just to the northeast of central paris. more pictures here, two explosions outside the soccer stadium and you see there's the shots from outside the restaurant. we're continuing to put all of this together. we are going to have full, extensive coverage and we'll see you in a short time here on the east coast for nbc "nightly news" as the reports warrant. i'm lester holt, nbc news. >> you've been watching an nbc news special report with lester holt and we are back at the live desk and some of the takeaways from what president obama said in just the last few minutes. he called france the united states' oldest allies and says we stand together and he called the multiple attacks an outrageous attack to terrorize innocent citizens. we are getting news of a potential fourth attack. a potential fourth attack now.

these reports are coming in about the les aulais shopping mall and there are reports of another shooting there and that is a huge shopping mall with one of the largest underground train stations in all of europe centered there. not much information, but there are some reports of another shooting at the les aulais shopping mall and this follows other shootings in central paris and up to two explosions near a stadium where france was playing against germany in a soccer match. right now we are told that the french president francois hollande who was at that soccer stadium, he was rushed out of that area and is now meeting with several of his ministers. just a bit of context for you. a lot of this has been taking place in central paris. the 10th and 11th arrondissement, the districts, these are extremely popular

areas. for example, the 11 thdth arrondissement is a very hip area, lots of restaurants and lots of nightclubs and not so much a tourist area, but a lot of parisians that eat and party there on a friday night when all of this happened this would have been a hive of activity. a lot of people would say it's a lot like the williamsburg east village up in new york city. there's also been some reaction here on our end. president obama alluded to some of this. we know that u.s. officials have been in contact with a lot of their counterparts in paris. u.s. officials are saying they believe this was a coordinated attack. all of these occurring very, very close together. here at home, no known threats to the united states right now, but our barbara harrison is on

the phone, and they've stepped up security there and up in new york city they're also putting extra security in and around the french diplomatic missions up there, but again, no known targets here in the united states right now. we're also learning, this is just coming in. a lot of this changing by the minu minute, the mayor of paris is telling millions of residents do not leave home. i can't undersell that enough. the mayor of paris is telling millions of people in that city right now, don't leave home and the french president says he will now declare a state of emergency and close france's borders. tonight the death toll is rising possibly to as high as 60 or more after a series of coordinated attacks in paris and this situation is far from over tonight. there are reports now of at

ast 60 people being held hostage at a concert hall right now in paris. chris lawrence has been on the news desk, the live desk since all of this broke just a short time ago and continues now and continues with the latest. >> we are getting new information about the concert hall that doreen just mentioned. eyewitness reports are suggesting that police have stormed or are storming that bataclan theater in paris and we are told some of the people who have been trapped inside are leaving. again, this is an historic 19th century theater. there was an american rock band, the eagles of death metal that were performing there tonight. we are told at least a hundred people were inside and that it was a packed show tonight when this shooting happened. there are conflicting reports about what type of gun was used. there was a report of a kali kalashnikov and they do believe

there were deaths there at the nightclub and that a number of people, potentially 60 people were being held hostage there, potentially even more than that, but now at this point police have stormed or are storming that theater there in paris. jim, doreen? >> chris, can you please go over what you were just talking about a few moments ago, and some stunning information that the mayor of paris is telling people to stay in their homes tonight. can you talk about that a little bit more again? >> yeah. exactly, doreen. i think it speaks to the