y2b7ky ysty now "4 your sunday: viewpoint." good morning. i'm pat lawson muse. it was a box office blockbuster. the movie "hidden figures" told the story of three african-american women, former nasa mathematicians whose numbers crunching played an indispensable role in launching the first american astronaut . >> they tested me through the computer. >> she's the she can handle any numbers you put in front of her. >> this is about inventing the math, because without it we're not going anywhere. >> yes, sir. >> that's john glenn. >> the movie "hidden figures" chronicled the plight of these women who

and fought to integrate the teams behind the space program, women who excelled, paving a path building a ladder for the women we you to nasa's modern figures. dr. p ank tatpatel is can the n program and a professor with the engineering department at catholic engineer and dr. crystal johnson. lakisha hawkins is an aerospace engineer and a propulsion team lead at nasa. welcome, all of you. >> you. >> thank y for having us. >> i know you saw the movie. >> yes, yes. >> what do you think of it? >> loved it. loved it. >> was it accurate? >> it was close. i mean there were quite a few liberties that were taken in terms of some of the details, but the concept behind the unity that we have at nasa and the challenging mission that we have was right on point. >> and are you sured

got, ms. hawkins? >> oh, i'm so excited about that. there are people that you would never think that would get excited about space and space exploration and women that i know who are talking about it and asking me about what i do because of the movie. i think it's been a great bridge between us in technology and those who that's not part of their everyday conversation. >> dr. gagaraje, it has changed the conversation, hasn't it? >> it has. >> for s.t.e.m. and for space women? >> i think that's my favorite part of the movie. and anytime hollywood takes something, we are kidding ourselves if we think tv does not impact people, and we're talking the mass of people, just the average person. that's who we're targeting. i love that people are having dinner conversations about science, about nasa? that's a win-win. >> i know you all get asked a

lot, but can you explain what you do? >> okay. >> dr. johnson, as deputy center director for technology research investment, what are your responsibilities? >> i'm responsible for envisioning the next-generation missions that we're going to do, the science missions that we're going to do. and then i establish an investment portfolio. developing the next technologies that you're going to need to achieve those incredible, challenging missions, and making sure we have all of that mapped out in time to do the missions that we're envisioning for the future. so, all technology development and research and development. >> you're a visionary. >> i am. >> dr. gnagaraja? >> i started off being the worker bee, taking her visions and making them into something, so instrument technology, operating mission control, so making sure astronauts in space are safe. and now i get to do communications, so i'm in the business of being able to take these wonderful things that nasa's doing and put them in a way so that people care about it, so they'll listen to us, they'll hear what we're

what we're doing. >> and i think i read that you used to train shuttle and space -- >> i did. >> -- astronauts? >> yeah, i did. one of the coolest things i've ever gotten to do. the little 5-year-old girl in me could not believe that's what i got to do when i grew up. it wasn't even a job i knew existed when i was little. it's just something that as time goes and you start getting exposed to different things, you realize, huh, that's something i think i would like to do. >> ms. hawkins, i understand that right now you are working on something really big, putting humans on mars. >> well, so, in the world of propulsion, my job is a little bit easier to talk about. it's all about smoke and fire, right? so, for the last 20 years, i've been working to help develop engines for the space shuttle and now for the space launch system, s.o.s. and since i've been here at headquarters, i've been helping to work strategy for in-space propulsion,

and instruments that we need to get us to deep space humans to mars. >> i'm just in awe. it's all about smoke and fire. that's a fascinating characterization. how close are we to putting someone on mars? would you say. >> so, probably in the next decade or more, we will be getting there. >> in our lifetime. >> in our lifetime. >> tell us about the teams you work with. big departments? >> well, at goddard space flight center, we have 10,000 employees, so it's a pretty large organization. across nasa, nasa's a huge team. the team is not just nasa civil servants, but we have a contractor community that's a very, very important part of the nasa team. and so, that is a very vast, you know, hundreds of thousands of people that are engaged in the aerospace industry, and all of us have the same passion about what it is that we do. >> and what's it lik

>> oh, goodness, trying to ensure that everybody is moving in the same direction. the work that i've been doing has been across mission directors and plugging in with folks at many of our nasa field centers. and i think that getting everybody focused on what our mission and our vision is, these are professionals that all believe in where we're going. they're very dedicated to what we're doing. and i think a lot of people are motivated themselves to want to work together in support. >> d nagaraja, give you a chance to answer that, too. >> yeah, i think it's a lot of what other people also see. so a lot at nasa can be related to by other people. so, you'll have bumps in the road when you're working with a team. people have different opinions, different ways of approaching the same problem. while those cause problems, they are also our strength,

biggest strength, because we have different viewpoints, different backgrounds. where i may be more resourceful because i grew up in this area, this person may have a completely different way of . u mix of two and have a completely new solution. >> they are the nasa's modern figures. we'll take a break and continue ou

march is women's history month, and this month, barbara harrison talked with one of the women in "hidden figures." catherine johnson was one of the so-called human computers, who proved that her manual math calculations were more reliable than the computers in nasa's early >> this one in the middle. >> okay. >> that's supposed to be catherine johnson. >> if they say so. >> well, that's what they say. and we've all gone to the movies to s

does that surprise you? it does? >> yes, very much. >> you don't know that you're an international sensation? >> for what reason? >> because of what you did. >> did i rob a bank? >> catherine johnson has a terrific sense of human, certainly not the introvert some might imagine a mathematics genius to be. >> we know that you did some incredible things when you worked at nasa. john glenn could not take a trip without you saying it was okay. >> yeah, he was like me, he didn't trust that they put everything in the computers. >> john glenn trusted her telemetry calculations over those from computers that were relatively new at the time. he knew her equations done by hand had worked for some very high-stakes missions. how did she feel about so much weight riding o

>> no problem, because math has never stumped catherine johnson. she's a legend now at nasa, where a lot has changed since her 33 years there. and she was a major catalyst for that change. her brilliant mind for math led to great strides in the race to get to space and back. the fact that you knew how to do it when a lot of people didn't know how to do it. >> shame on. >> yes. >> shame on them. >> shame on them, sh how many catherine johnsons are there now at nasa? >> ooh. >> there are lots of them, i assume. >> lots of them. >> and lots of careers at nasa for, well, all kinds of careers, not just the science and math and engineering careers, correct? >> that's right. that's right. so, we have photographers, we have attorneys, we have accountants, we have doctors, actually, physical doctors that have to take a look at our astronauts and

they're healthy. any kind of career that you can imagine, we've got it at nasa. >> i have to ask you as girls, did you all dream of science and math, or is it something you always wanted to do, or were you encouraged to do it? ms. hawkins. >> i think it was a combination of both. i was always interested in math, always interested in science, but i grew up in a family that just never limited me in what i could and couldn't do. there weren't any hard or easy subjects. it really was about getting the tools that you needed to pursue whatever it is that you wanted to do. >> did you have mentors along the way? >> you know, i look back. i've done this a lot. as i've grown up, i've gone back and looked at why did i get into math and science, because let me tell you, the kids around me did not go into math and science. so i really wanted to know what made me so different, and i think it was the mentors, having people around you -- long befo i knew was science was, i happened to ask questions, and my sister said -- she's older than i am, so she knew i

honing in on those interests. i saw my mom and dad doing things. we owned a hotel, and we went out, didn't matter what gender you were. my dad said, let's go fix the toilet or the sewer line or whatever it was. so i was exposed to it, i was mentored in it, and that paved the math for me. >> as far as s.t.e.m. aptitude goes, some people say it's nature, some say nurture. what do you say? >> i think it's got to be a combination of the two. i think you have to start with some very, very basic aptitude, and then from there, you have to nurture it, because for me, math and science were really difficult. >> really? >> they were very difficult when i was really, really young, but my parents required me during the summertime, when some of my friends were out at the pool swimming, i had to do math problems. and so, for me, what i found out is if something is really, really difficult for you, math, science or whatever it is, there is nothing on this planet that's too difficult for you to understand. so, it's really just a matter of finding someone that can break it down to the

point where it actually clicks in your mind. once you find the one piece of the puzzle that's missing that is making it so difficult for you, the light bulb goes off. >> bing, you got it. >> right, and you understand it. and then from there, you have to nurture it and grow it and grow it from there, so. >> do you agree with that? >> absolutely i agree with that. growing up, as i talked about, it's just a matter of acquiring the tools that you need. i've heard it called the three es. you need the education, you need exposure, and you also need experience. and so, if there is a subject that is out there that you want to pursue, typically, if you're not able to do it, it's one of those three pieces that you need, and that puts power in the learner's hands, right? because that just means it's a matter of going out and getting that. >> so, a combination, dr dr. nagaraja, of the nature and nurture. >> yeah, it's definitely got to be a

and looking at those people we love, some people just have an aptitude, they have a natural ability towards certain things. it may not be science or math. it could be a natural ability for languages. it could be a natural ability for the written word, but everyone has natural abilities, but it doesn't mean you can't be taught, at least on some level, to expcel at some of these othe subjects. >> we'll continue ouh our modern figures, nasa's modern figures, in a minute. st.

welcome back. despite efforts to bridge the s.t.e.m. gender gap, the gap, as you all know, is still very wide in the academia, in the workforce, and girls are being left behind in tech jobs, which is one of the fastest growing fields in the job market. how would you say we change that? >> well, i think that we're going to have to -- one of the things we like to do is to make sure that we get students actually into the doors of n

and so, we have focused efforts to get girls in. internships, we have over 450 at goddard alone, but across the whole agency, there is significantly more than that. but to get the girls in and provide them with women mentors, and we're matching even high school girls with college-age mentors, and that pair's matched with a nasa woman mentor, to get them exposed and get them in. >> ms. hawkins, does changing perception also matter? when you take the average person, if they close their eyes and picture a scientist, they probably wouldn't see a woman? >> oh, absolutely. so, i think perception matters a lot, and that's part of the exposure piece of the discussion, making sure that our young girls know that there are people like us that are out there in this field and engaged. and i think it starts at a very young age. i have a young daughter. she's 13 years old. and i have watched her.

i've watched her mind-set change about who should be in math and who should be in math and science honors classes. i think that the more they see it, the more they realize that it is normal and appropriate. >> does she want to do what you do? >> she doesn't. she's definitely engaged in the other side of the brain. however, i think that in a lot of ways, people who are in technology are engaged in the arts as well. so, we'll keep exposing. >> dr. nagaraja, one of the challenges for girls is not just getting them into s.t.e.m., but keeping them in s.t.e.m. as you know, there is a big drop-off rate, especially in school between the ages of 13 and17. >> yes. so, i think part of it is engaging them and maintaining interest. and we spend a lot of time focusing on middle school, because we know that's where children's ideas and their interests dt

in that -- because we're focused on them so young, we're forgetting to also address the kids as they grow older. but i think we also have a second problem. so, we're engaging the girls when they're young, but also what happen they get older and we have that dropout of the tech sector and women my age who are leaving technology, science and engineering because family-friendliness and flexibilities, workforce flexibilities aren't there. so, i think you have two issues, you've got them when they're young and older, too. >> and ms. hawkins, getting back to your daughter and daughters in general, what would you recommend for parents who want to stimulate their children's interest in s.t.e.m., especially girls? >> right. well, pushing them to enroll in the courses, engaging them in extracurricular activities, letting them know that there are clubs and there are after-school activities that are involved in rocketry and r

of that nature, that it can actually be fun. and that early exposure can carry through. >> dr. simmons, you have a great example of a sleepover where all of that happens? >> yes, yes. i am really passionate about getting girls engaged in s.t.e.m. and so, so many of the girls in the younger ages are saying, i just, i can't do it, you know. it's not something that's easy for me. and so, for those girls that are not the "a"-"b" students, i wanted to reach out in prince george's county, our local community. we invited 60 of the young girls, high school girls, junior-aged girls, that are not doing so well and do not see themselves purg a s.t.e.m. career so we could show them exactly what it is we do. so, we had challenges and competitions and we did star-gazing, and they all had women mentors that stayed with them the entire night. and so, we also connected with the first lady's let girls learn program. so, our girls spoke with the girls in south africa and talked about some of the challenges there. but at the

adventure, so many of those girls said, i changed my mind. this is really what i want to do, because it's fun! i thought you guys were geeks or nerds, and this is not what i wanted to do. but perception is everything. most of them don't even consider it's fun. >> they're now star-gazers. >> yes. >> all righty, we'll take .nother break and

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continuing now with nasa's modern figures. what do you recommend in terms of organizations that parents can get their boys or girls involved in? i'm familiar with a group called girls who code, and there are others. >> yes, absolutely. >> yeah. in the local community, there are many. one of my favorites is first robotics, which exposes students to being able to build very simple robots with mentoring of adults who are in

field. again, just being able to expose students to practice with it and know that it's fun. >> dr. nagaraja? >> i'd say almost any city in the u.s. has a school nearby, so if you're looking for a way to expose kids to science and engineering, take them to the labs where there are professors and ask the professors to mentor them or show them or get them involved in an experiment themselves. >> and maybe taking a tour of nasa, dr. johnson? >> we welcome them to come to nasa as well. you can go to www.nasa.gov and look at any of the nasa centers. there should be a link that says "contract us," and you can call us and ask for a tour and we'd be happy to take any group of kids or group of adults on tours of our facilities. we're happy to do that. >> all right, and you were telling me about nasa's program working with other agencies to keep women in s.t.e.m. >> yes. >> and s.t.e.m. jobs. an important program. >> absolutely. one of our passions is making sure we sustain women in s.t.e.m. one of the problems is companies hire women because we

they don't create the environment that sustains them. so, in september, nasa is partnering with several of the private-industry companies, and we'll be having another sustaining women in s.t.e.m. forum, where the focus will be on the role of men in sustaining women in s.t.e.m. and so, really, when it comes to mentoring, how should men and when should men mentor women and think about what they need to do to encourage women. >> all right, well, according to the group girls who code, by the year 2020, there will be nearly 1.5 million jobs in computing-related fields. u.s. graduates expected to fill about a third of those. women only about 3%. so, still a lot of work to do. thank you all for being with us this morning. >> thank you. >> dr. christyl johnson, dr dr. mamta patel nagaraja and lakiesha hawkins. thank you for being with us. i'm pat lawson muse. "news4 today" is nex

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that breaking news takes us to ohio. a mass shooting at a cincinnati nightclub. dozens wounded, at least one dead. what police in ohio are uncovering about the latest case of devastating violence. >> how you going to kill a little boy? i grew up with him. that's messed up. a teenager taken too soon. friends mourn the loss as prince george's county police try to track down his killer. and on the positive side of things, it's one of the best sights all year. thousands heading to the cherry